Major Camber problems [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Major Camber problems


billntenn1972
Sep 25th, 07, 9:21 AM
I have a 64 chevelle that I had installed 2" taller springs. I put on all new ball joints (factory Moog) and also new offset control arm shafts. I had an obvious negative camber problem. I then researched some things in the forums and purchased some Howe tall ball joints from SC&C. They look great but now I have an obvious positive camber problem even after flipping my offset arms. The wheels are sitting out about a 1/2 at the top. I can probably add more shims if I get some longer control arm bolts. What's the most shims anyone would feel comfortable with? Do I need to add shims to both control arm bolts until I get my camber corrected and then start adding to the back to get some sort of caster? If there had been a ball joint between my fatory and the Howe it would have been perfect. Someone chime in. Also does anyone know the size and length of the factory control arm shaft bolts, thought about picking some longer ones up at the hardware just to try.

melrose
Sep 25th, 07, 9:30 AM
I am not an alignment pro but I have done plenty of alignments on our road course cars in the past to give some basic advice. First, if you want to do this yourself buy a caster camber bubble guage, Longacre makes good ones. Definitely add or remove shims in pairs until you get desired camber then do your caster. Consistently jounce the car to help any changes take affect and read correctly on your guage. Check your toe during the process as well because camber and toe changes will affect the other. Make sure you do your tire pressures first.
Good Luck

melrose
Sep 25th, 07, 9:31 AM
caster camber guages

http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/catlist.asp?catid=5

billntenn1972
Sep 25th, 07, 10:06 AM
should I jack the car up to adjust the camber of leave on the ground, add shims, then bounce and roll & re-check? should I add shims to both arm bolts to get camber then work with caster? how many shims are enough or to many? I am thinking I may need close to an inch of shims to get the camber atleast to zero.

melrose
Sep 25th, 07, 10:22 AM
An inch of shims in fine. Try to avoid jacking up the car. The rubber in the control will "unwind" when the car's weight is removed. It usually takes some serious bouncing or driving to get the car back to true ride height. Add shims in pairs on the ground, tighten, bounce, and recheck your camber. Sorry to cut you short I am supposed to be working. PM me if you have more q's.

vrooom3440
Sep 25th, 07, 2:48 PM
Your combination is not really supposed to work.

Normally if you were to draw a line from the control arm shaft through the ball joint you would get a line that angled down towards the ball joint. As the suspension compresses this line traverses an arc and pushes the ball joint further out. This is the positive camber curve that the Howe tall ball joints were intended to eliminate.

With the Howe tall ball joints the same line drawn would be horizontal. The problem is that it is still the same length, and moved in the same arc, so the ball joint is moved outboard. This is why Marcus sells/packages the adjustable upper control arms with the Howe tall ball joints. You need a shorter upper control arm to make it work right.

Note that the good news is now with the tall ball joints, as the suspension compresses the line angles up and the natural arc pulls the ball joint in. This provides negative camber gain which is a good thing.

And another thing: using the wrong control arm may cause ball joint binding and structural failure! Marcus could tell you more definitively if this is a problem or not. It may be that with only 1 tall ball joint you can get away with it but with 2 no way.

billntenn1972
Sep 25th, 07, 2:56 PM
Marcus is the one who suggested that I install these on my stock arms, he said it would correct my problem... it did but over corrected. I can not use the adjustable arms since my car has been raised without cutting gussets into the frame...under acceleration the arms would hit the frame since they are straight instead of arched.

vrooom3440
Sep 25th, 07, 7:47 PM
I see. I had missed the "raised 2 inches" portion of your comment. We must be going drag racing...

If you want to try different bolts, and you have the room, be sure to get grade 8 high strength bolts. This is not someplace to have things come apart. The bolts have been replaced on my '68 although depending on engine you may not be able to go much longer before you hit headers and such.

Another possibility is to also get the tall lower ball joints and see if that allows you to run the straight upper control arms at your raised ride height.

Personally I would put it all together on jackstands without the springs and make sure everything moves and works as it should. In particular check with the suspension bottomed out to make sure the ball joint motion can take the angles.

billntenn1972
Sep 26th, 07, 8:19 AM
Tried the tall ball joints and new bolts but run out of room with shims, can't get enought camber. It still falls out on the positive side. Guess I will go back to my factory ball joints and just live with it for now. The tall ball joints are really nice but it just throws my adjustment curves out the window.