i have an LS-6 numbers matching chevelle in my shop the owner informed me he would like to sell the way it is. my question is how desirable would it be in this condition? it is in primer ready for paint. no build sheet but numbers matching 4 speed. same owner for 30 years. didn't do a frame off but car is nice. i guess my thought is if i finish it without doing a frame off whoever buys it will probably take it apart and do a frame off. what do you guys think would you rather buy a car like this in this condition or finished. he's asking my opinion not sure which way i would go.

Pictures and details will help.

Really need all information such as VIN. cowl tag and photos of the engine stamping.

As i'm sure your aware, there's a whole lot of counterfitting of these cars going on.

Knowing the owner means nothing as he himself could have been tricked.

You'll need to legitimize the car to determine value.

There is a blue car for sale here in Tulsa right now that is a relatively sound nice car (one thing I noticed about it right away though was that it is missing it's dual snorkel air breather) with it's documentation for 65K I think is what they are wanting for it...let me get a link for you...brb

my bad...green car @ 53K...archived so it has been sold...
http://www.venturaclassics.com/images/CHEVROLET/INVENTORY35/MainPage.html

That had to be a bogus car....... Had to be.

C-H-E-A-P

Had to be bogus.

Either that, or a deal of a lifetime.

That had to be a bogus car....... Had to be.

C-H-E-A-P

Had to be bogus.

Either that, or a deal of a lifetime.

53k, ya deal of a lifetime...
are you high..
it's a car that went off the showroom floor for 5g's..
it's a 454 chevelle...
oooooooohhh ls6
more 454 chevelles will hand an ls6 it's a$$ now adays..
so whats the big "draw"
why so many want a car thats slower than most bigblock chevelles ..and stuck with a car they will not drive...

again whats the draw..

with a 454 built today you get more power and get to have a/c
and have more fun with it to..

the fact, that most ls6's are low mileage, tells me no one injoyed them for what they where..

why buy a car with that much power only to park it..

why 30 years later pay 10 to 20 times what they where new, to park it...
whats the point..
to say, I have one and you don't..
who cares, when a smallblock velle can out run it...
peace

Bruce, I agree with the request for more details, what options, trim tag info.
What shape was it in before the primer? How much of it is original? Pics are needed.

53k, ya deal of a lifetime...
are you high..

Am I high?

Are you assuming I'm personally the one setting the market values on these cars?

Yes, at 53K that would have been the investment deal of a lifetime.

The Hemi's, the Ls6's, the L78's and Copos (if you can get into them affordably) will be the heavy hitters in investment appreciation.

It's not about how fast you go, it's return on a rare Antique grade investment.

Sorry you don't get it Taz :)

But this hobby is more than just going fast and looking cool.... There's also investment potential on the rare desirable pieces.

I can't play that game either, but I understand how it works and can appreciate an Icon of the Era for what it was.

The highest Factory rated Muscle Car in an Era of mindblowing straight line performance.






.

i didn't want to get to specific in this forum i didn't want the moderator to think i was trying to run a classified ad here. here are some details. the current owner bought it in 77 or 78 it still has the transfer paperwork in the glove box. i can't believe somebody would fake a car way back then when he bought it it wasn't even represented as an LS-6 he owned it for a year before he realized what it was. i know the guy he bought it from he has since passed, but i'm sure he didn't know the value of it back then either. i stripped it to bare metal put goodmark full quarters on it(the ones stamped on GM tooling) put outer wheel houses in it. drivers door & fender were perfect no rust. small patch in heel of pass fender. replaced pass door. outer skin was fine had some rust in front hinge area. perfect interior. (black) bucket seat no console car. floors perfect no rust no repairs. couple of small patches in trunk floor. car originally white black stripes black vinyl top. car had 33000 miles on it when he bought it it now has 39000 on it hasn't been on the road in at least 10 years. been in nice dry attached house garage. engine code is CRV rear end code is i believe CRW been a while since i looked at it. anyway i think he is better off selling it the way it is rather than painting it & have the new owner just tear it apart & do a frame off on it. it's an Arlington car can't find a build sheet anywhere he has looked and so have I. the plan is to hang the doors,fenders,hood etc. & sell it as a running driving car in primer ready for paint. iv'e been doing bodywork for 20 years the car is done right no short cuts. it wasn't his intention to sell car when it was done so there were no shortcuts taken just to make it good enough to sell he had every intention to keep it & drive it but he got bit by the drag racing bug again & has lost interest in it. i know with no pics it's tough to put a value on it but i see project cars going for 45K that need to be torn apart have quarters put on & other sheetmetal work done. this would be considered a project car but most of the project is done. it is absolutly paint ready. been blocked & guide coated 3 times & final primed ready for paint.is 55K to 60K off the mark???

Who says you would have to park a car just because it was an LS6 car. I would drive the piss out of it whether it was a BJ special or a project tht was held together by duct tape. :D

That green car was archived...so it may have been sold in 2000 before the market skyrocketed...in 77 or 78 they were a dime a dozen and people WERE driving the piss out of them...by 85 you probably could have bought a nice example for 10-15K...LS6 is the epitomy of a muscle car...I'd say if the number on that frame rail matches the block and the vin is clean and none of that is faked then that car is worth big bucks...

If I could afford one I would also have a twin skinny block vert car that would smoke it doors off easy...:)

And don't foreget that these car's(LS6) were way under rated on horse power. 2 week's ago a LS6 car was strapped to the chassis dyno here at the Street Machine Nat's,this car is a BONE stone 20,000 mile suvivor,and it put 475 horse to the back tires.And the factory rated them at 450 at the flywheel.

is 55K to 60K off the mark???

I think that might pull it.

The LS6 builders I've seen, seem to go for even more than they're worth for some reason. (probably because the cheaper real Deal builders don't come up that often and they're easier to get into.)

50K-55K maybe

What month and week does the trim tag show?

You sound like a guy that knows his stuff when it comes to body work. I'll take your word for it, about the body before and after the work.

But throwing out #s without some proof the block has it's original stampings and the trans and rear are original, is really just speculation. I've seen 3 LS6 chevelles that were project cars go for the mid 20s. I personally checked them and verified their originality, plus they had build sheets. I admit this was a couple of years ago, but the market is lower now than it was a couple years ago.

I think it would be difficult to get 55-65k for a car that doesn't have documentation and no pics of the codes on the engine, trans and rear.

i have pics of all the numbers on car as well as how it looked when it got to my shop along with very detailed pics of all work done to it. it has the correct dash/tach most of engine stuff is right. right alt.# right waterpump, starter was replaced by current owner in the early 80's has correct carb,intake,exhaust manifolds, i was all over the M-22 trans and could not find a single number on it anywhere & it was out of car and very clean. i know where to look & could not find a single number. motor has never been rebuilt. it has had new gaskets put in it since it was out of car during bodywork. i'm putting doors & fenders & hood back on this week then i guess he want's to put it up for sale. not sure if it will get listed here or e-bay it's up to owner.

I would have to agree..

Here's my take on it...and I've owned 3 LS6's (1 of them twice)...

First..The car you mentioned sounds like a neat car...but there is no proof the car is really a LS6...Unless the car has a solid original buildsheet. It doesn't matter who owns it, how many years they have owned it, that it is "matching numbers (look that term up on here to see the number of different answers and how it has changed in 20 years..lol), or that it has all the attributes of a LS6. The bottom line is the cars save for a few hard parts and part numbers were just SS396 cars, with larger engines...So they are very easily faked...There isn't anything on the cowl tag (ala '67 or '69 Norwood Camaros) or the VIN number (like Hemi's) to differentiate a LS6 from a SS396 car or even a V8 Malibu...

The ONLY way to tell a LS6 in today's market is an original buildsheet..and I hate to tell some guys a POP is NOT documentation...Some guys might not be aware but POP's have been sold in the aftermarket since the mid '80's..and here's food for thought...the same POP's , which were being sold through Hemmings or at shows...were actually made on the same machines GM and the dealers used, with the same metal "credit card" blanks, the same warranty books, and using the same GM embossed tape..So once the parts vendors got ahold of the materials (by buying up dealers old inventories) how do you know the POP being used as "documentation" was made in 1970, 1989, or 1995??? You don't...hell one made today and artifically aged with tea, a few scrapes, and scuffs looks 30 years old...

Someone mentioned the cas as investments...It isn't within the last 6 years that LS6's have become 100k cars...they were there 20 years ago....and then fell....Some might remember 1989 when a buildsheet, 4spd nice color LS6, restored to 1989 specs were selling at 100k...The same cars were selling at 40-45k in 1993...It is largely a result of the latest "boom" on prices with guys who truly weren't collecting in the '80's or even prior to 2001 who have pushed the prices to where they are today...And because of this, the 'net, and a belief these cars are somehow overly rare (IMO they aren't) and if you don't buy "today" you'll never own (sort of parallels the housing market...) the prices are where they are...and notice what is happening..fraud, and a lack of capable buyers at these 100k price tags is forcing the market down...IMO not a bad thing...

To illustrate...I bought the "pilot" LS6 from a noted NH collector(a NCOA Diamond award winning collector) in 1994. I paid 19k for the car, which was in need of a cosmetic restoration, but was completely numbers matching and documented...I sold the car in 1996 after cosmetically restoring the car in the 20's and bought it back in 2001 for under 30k ( the then owner didn't loose money either...made a nice profit..)..Sold it again in 2005 for 85k...So like anything else, once it moves into the "investment" catagory from "a cool old car" it flucuates...As far as I'm concerned if you want a musclecar as an investment....buy a Mopar or Shelby/Ford...where there is a much better way to insulate yourself from fraud...Someone mentioned the COPO's (Camaros I assume...) hell they are far worse...IMO 90% of those cars have ZERO "real" documentation...(read about POP's above...lol) and one of the ways to determine if a car was real....body numbers????? *???

Something else to keep in mind...even if you find a legit buildsheet LS6 for 35k...chances are it will still need a resto...which depending on who does it will set you back at least 60k for a professional job to "original" standards....Also the cost of the cars is flat lining..yet the cost of restorations isn't...labor and parts typically do not receed..So each year it gets more expensive to restore a car...despite what a done car is bringing....So think about this...a LS6, with a buildsheet, matching numbers, etc..needing compelte resto will still be a 105-110k car at MINIMUM if a competent shop does the job to original standards...and a NOS car??? Add another 40-50k easy...Don't think you'll spend 60k minimum to do one...I'll send anyone pics of the "pilot" which is a nice driver/local show car and you can see even though it is complete and not needing any of the real hards/expenive items...the price to do the car ....is still over 60k...Don't believe LS6's can still be bought for 35k or better??

I know where a car is which is a buildsheet, matching, 4spd car in the low 30's...needing every panel replaced (including roof) and missing some very expensive LS6 engine parts (many out there are missing manifolds, carbs, etc...)...I also know of a buildsheet driver, with nice options..missing original drivetrain which in the 20's could buy..There have been quite a few cars sold in the 20-30k range with buildsheets needing complete restoration...so 55-60k is way overpriced on this car IMO..

It sounds like a neat car which IMO is probably worth 40-45k with new paint and interior....just my opinion...


Greg

Something else to consider with people saying how rare the LS6's are. The LS5's are actually rarer. Even if it's only by a couple hundred.

That sounds like knowledgable hands on advice.

But I've seen some very "Un documented" LS6's sell on E-bay for crazy money of late.

You will need definately need clear photos of the Engine Stamps to verify original broach Marks and Font's.

I still think it could pull 50K, but that's without the hands on experiance as above, just watching E-bay LS6's very closely recently.

The buyers arent anywhere near as educated as we are having this discussion, and the are in a feeding frenzy.

But now you just said no numbers on the trans, which means it's likely been replaced.

So now it looses more ground.

I think we need to see detailed photos of the car and the stampings.

if i knew how to post pics i would post pic of engine stamping.broach marks there it's the real deal. i'm double checking all numbers & writing all the info down since the owner wants me to handle putting it on the internet. i get that a buyer is going to want to verify everything but all these comments back up my statement that i think it is better to sell it now than to spend time & effort to paint it & put it back together without having done a frame off & finding the few correct pcs missing. i have also seen project cars go for a lot on e-bay and the LS-6 cars always generate a lot of interest. some of you guys here seem to look at it as though they are all fake until proven otherwise. which i guess isn't such a bad way to look at it. this car is just a case of he's owned it 30 years hardly ever drove it & now that it has appreciated in value he wants to cash in & buy a race car & have some fun!!

E-mail me the pictures and I'll post them.

johnlord@webtv.net

Bruce ?,

It sounds like a neat car, which 10 years ago 90% of the enthusiast out there, would have looked at and accepted as a LS6, without question. There are still a bunch of us that can look at one, especially before restoration and get a good "feel" for...Unfortunatly the current market has dictated; largely due to the enormous amounts of fraud out there (any of the car sites..doesn't matter what brand) and the amount of money involved today; that buyers be prudent and demand solid paperwork before spending "original" money.

When Jeff D and Brain E wrote their article on LS6's which the NCOA and Musclecar Review published (1991 or so), it was considered one of the best articles for determining a LS6 (still is...) and it was often used when looking at a prospective car.. There were fakes, clones, etc back then...but to a large degree the hobbyist were still driving value..not speculators or people looking to defraud others...So if a car met what they said, yet was an Arlington car..no huge deal...maybe try to pay 10-15% less for no buildsheet..Afterall Chevelle collectors accepted that Arlington cars were/are notorious for a lack of a buildsheet.

Unfortunatly that is now going to hurt this car..It sounds like a real car..but how do "you" prove it..The guy who has owned it for 30 years knows it is, you might..but proving it to the next guy is what is tough. Especially when he has to be concerned with his investment...And what if he sells?? How does he show someone else it is..See my point?

The best advice I can you guys is to pull the car apart inside..look for a sheet...(don't forget to lift up the tar paper under the carpet) pull the gas tank and see if one is there. If not...try to locate the original owners..maybe they will have something you can use..old pics, old titles...anything..

The car sounds nice and sadly it is just the wrong plant and bad timing with respect to the hobby and what is considered acceptable documentation today for "original" money...

If you email me the pics, I will post them on here. Depending on what you and the owner thinks it is worth, I'm sure there will be a buyer on this site...if it is priced realistically and it has good detailed pics.

Alot of stuff on ebay might appear to have sold for good prices but I bet many of them do not actually change hands. There is too much fraud and scamming on ebay.

i have been all over car looking for build sheet even under the tarpaper under carpet. no luck. the interior is perfect so we hate to tear it apart looking for sheet. owner has looked also over the years no luck. i have an article on LS-6 cars with part numbers for pcs on the car most of them check out. i see your point about proving it to perspective buyer. i'm sure you guys who have been around these enough would accept this as the real deal. it just has to much of the correct stuff. so anyway does anybody agree with me that the best thing would be to sell it in primer? since i'm the guy that has to paint it i hate to go through all that work & then the guy really doesn't get that much more for it.

From what I have seen on this site it's clone price unless somehow doccumented. Sorry that it has to be that way but when you want top dollar they are going to want proof.

LK

i have been all over car looking for build sheet even under the tarpaper under carpet. no luck. the interior is perfect so we hate to tear it apart looking for sheet. owner has looked also over the years no luck. i have an article on LS-6 cars with part numbers for pcs on the car most of them check out. i see your point about proving it to perspective buyer. i'm sure you guys who have been around these enough would accept this as the real deal. it just has to much of the correct stuff. so anyway does anybody agree with me that the best thing would be to sell it in primer? since i'm the guy that has to paint it i hate to go through all that work & then the guy really doesn't get that much more for it.

It depends on the price he wants.

Photo 1 and Photo 2 from the Left are bruce's LS6.

The 3rd Photo on the right is an example taken from www.chevellestuff.com (http://www.chevellestuff.com) of a sample of an Arlington VIN.

I am not sure either. i am still trying to do the date thing. my crv block was cast 3 28 70 block stamped 04 10 70 vin 2500XX cowl tag build date 05 e. one goes hand in hand with the other.. on the car in question what are all the dates according to mine. maybe this will be some help. yes my car is an arlington car too. wish i could of been a fly on the wall back then.:thumbsup:

i will get the dates off the tag & post tonight.

ok here goes lets check my math. the first set of numbers read. the block was stamped 7 days before mine and the vin is 20134 before mine in 7 days. WOW! the second numbers which i think are in question are as follows. the block was stamped roughfly 29 days before mine and vin reads 30122 before mine as well. WOW AGAIN. them boys at arlington be working there butts off. so no wonder they did not put buildsheets in em. they threw them all over the floor and pitts. i bet they are in the sewer lines clogging them up.:noway::yes::sad::D

I was suprised by how quickly the motor assembly date tied into the cars VIN, But the example on the right matches the lag time with the car on the left.

They correspond correctly with wach other.

T0312 219888
T0403 228876

End of March last Arlington VIN 221193
End of April last Arlington VIN 234903

MY Arlington LS-5 1st week of JAn 210484
May help the Math

MY Arlington LS-5 1st week of Jan 201484
May help the Math 315 cars/day????

Levon, I hate to throw this out there, But Dales Site www.chevellestuff.com (http://www.chevellestuff.com), shows the last VIN in January to be 206284


Plant Month End VIN
Arlington Dec 200126
Jan 200126
Feb 212783
Mar 221193
APR 234903
May 248727
June 263341
July 269839

To me it makes sense
Low Production in Dec. 6000 cars in Jan/Feb So a VIN with 1484 would be towards the end of week 1 in Jan?????? Yes?????????

We should probably take the rest of this discussion off line? We don't want to distract from the issue above .

Johnnie...I put the block stamp next to your block stamp...very cool...:) :) :)

date car was built is 04C 3rd week of april ,checked out some parts it still has the original 2 pc rotors. original brake drums date coded K 24 9 correct intake,carb,alt,waterpump date code J 8 9, correct crank pulley,rear end code CRV, going to finish putting fenders & doors on this week & the owner wants to E-Bay it seems like the right thing to do instead of finishing.

Isnt the distributor exclusive to the LS6?

And very expensive. Something like 3K 1111437

All those original LS6 components make a difference.

Carb, Dist. Manifolds $$$

took another look at trans today found some numbers not original trans. just need to put on doors & front clip & we will see what it brings on E-bay if all goes well i might even take it for a little ride sat.

Another way to tell if it's an original LS6 is to dump the clutch at about 6500 RPM to verify it has a forged Crank and pistons :)

Since the owner doesn't want to try and sell it to a chevelle.com member, maybe you could put a link to the ebay ad so we can see. Evidently the seller didn't like what we had to say about the value.

Hopefully he understands that an LS6 that is missing several valuable parts and pieces, plus it doesn't have documentation, may not get him the high prices that he wants. Especially in the market we're in at this time.

The positive side to all of this is, if it does sell for a high price, it will only help the value of mine.

Good luck.

i'm still putting it together so i can take pics for add. i'm sure he would sell it to a member. i need to talk to him more about what he needs to get for it. hopefully it will be ready by Sunday.

i have an LS-6 numbers matching chevelle in my shop... i stripped it to bare metal put goodmark full quarters on it(the ones stamped on GM tooling) put outer wheel houses in it. drivers door & fender were perfect no rust. small patch in heel of pass fender. replaced pass door. outer skin was fine had some rust in front hinge area. perfect interior. (black) bucket seat no console car. floors perfect no rust no repairs. couple of small patches in trunk floor. car originally white black stripes black ...the plan is to hang the doors,fenders,hood etc. & sell it as a running driving car in primer ready for paint. iv'e been doing bodywork for 20 years the car is done right no short cuts... this would be considered a project car but most of the project is done. it is absolutly paint ready. been blocked & guide coated 3 times & final primed ready for paint.

Please clear something up for me... If you are a bodyman, and the car is in your shop... Car has been primered, blocked and READY for paint...

WHY would you NOT paint it????

Maybe I am mistaken on the market, but wouldn't a freshly painted (with lots of photos showing the work, right) sell better/easier and for more money than the "paint job" would cost??? Even for "investment quality"?

Wouldn't it make MORE sense, especially for an experienced body/paint guy, to paint it (or talk the owner into it) just for the sale? Isn't body work/panel replacement, blocking 90% of the work for a paint job? And surely You can do it for much less money right now than some other shop later... Anyone buying the car is going to be thinking of $$$ for paint...

Regardless of needing a frame-off or not... I'd think the cost to do the paint would be worth the investment, especially at this point...

Please clear something up for me... If you are a bodyman, and the car is in your shop... Car has been primered, blocked and READY for paint...

WHY would you NOT paint it????

Maybe I am mistaken on the market, but wouldn't a freshly painted (with lots of photos showing the work, right) sell better/easier and for more money than the "paint job" would cost??? Even for "investment quality"?

Wouldn't it make MORE sense, especially for an experienced body/paint guy, to paint it (or talk the owner into it) just for the sale? Isn't body work/panel replacement, blocking 90% of the work for a paint job? And surely You can do it for much less money right now than some other shop later... Anyone buying the car is going to be thinking of $$$ for paint...

Regardless of needing a frame-off or not... I'd think the cost to do the paint would be worth the investment, especially at this point...



I think in an oridinary situation you'd be right..but the car is factory white with black vinyl roof (which I think is being left off)..I personally think someone buying this car might want to re-paint it another more popular color (red/blue/black/silver) since there isn't a way to prove what it is, plus it is missing its' VIN stamped trans..The cost of painting it will probably be 3-5k I would guess...Is a white car going to be easier to sell?? Doubt it...And if you go ahead and paint it red,blue,. etc...someone just might wnat white..So leave it up to the buyer..it is 6 of 1... 1/2 dozen of another...

greg you took the words right out of my mouth. nice talking to you by the way. i may have owner of this car give you a call to discuss car. owner actually wants to paint car. i felt it would be easier to sell in primer ready for paint,true he might not get as much for it as he would if it was painted but how long will it take to sell a white with black stripes (vinyl top left off) no build sheet LS-6. it would be very easy to finish car. i needed to hang doors,fenders,hood,trunk lid one last time to check for proper fit anyway so owner agreed to try and market the car the way it is basically a complete running driving LS-6 in primer ready for paint. and i do have pics of every step of this project from the time it hit my shop to bare metal through body work & now in primer. if we don't get much response i will pull panels & paint & if nothing else this guy will have a very nice numbers matching LS-6 that if he sits on it till the market comes back will bring good money. if a guy was smart he would buy it now in primer sit on it till market comes back a little & make some money,

Bruce...Did he come up with a price yet?

i will talk to him this weekend my wife is having some surgery today so i won't be around much today or sat. PM me if your interested in car i can send pics.

owner was here today decided on a price listing it Sunday on E-BAY just need to put on hood & start it up. we will see how desirable it is in primer.

got car all together & running today listed on E-Bay ltem # 180166840962 Thanks for all the advice.

cant find it.

hook set!

just punch the number in the search window i just did & it came up. # 180166840962

I'm not going to make a guess on how desirable or what its worth finished, probably a lot.

But, looking at the pictures, even as blurry as they are, I would venture to say, it will need new floor pans, and if thats the case, a lot more rust issues will probably show up.

Even a cheap digital camera will take clear pictures, and for a buy it now of $55,000, clear pictures of the rust prone areas should be standard.

If the numbers are good, even with doing more panel replacement, its probably a good deal, I guess.

And you know, they buy them all the time with out a good look, why is that, I guess if you have enough money, it really doesn't matter.

Still whatever it takes, it should be a really nice car.

Rob

i don't know what pics you looked at but there is not a single hole in the floor of this car it has NO RUST ISSUES WHATSOEVER. THE FLOORS ARE NOT & HAVE NEVER BEEN RUSTY. THEY ARE PERFECT!!!! the body work is excellent and other than final sanding needs nothing but paint. as for buying without a good look anybody can come & inspect this car i will supply the jack & the floodlight so you can get a clear look. the more i think about it the owner was right to want this kind of money for car. i have seen "project cars" in much worse shape with rust issues go fo not very much less.

this one where the support and floor pan come togetherhttp://i8.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/bb/25/8759_1.JPG

Heres the floor pans on my 69, about 6 inches in from the rocker panel, I found 3'16 of an inch thick rust, I measured it, between the floor pan and support.

Heres a picture before i put the pans in, now you tell me, why wouldn't I suspect that is rust on the car you have, considering the other rust repairs you made.

The picture you have looks like rust to me.

Heres the pans that had all the rust under the supports.

http://www.1969supersport.com/restore8.html

Rob

I can see that I upset you, and i feel bad about it, because you seem like a real stand up guy.

Its hard to question somebody, its a fine line that sometimes I'm not good at.

But, heres another picture taken with a digital camera, and this camera is a cheaper one, so clear pictures can be taken even with a cheaper camera.

The point I'm trying to make here, this car has a buy it now of $55,000.

Wether its an ls6 or whatever, for that kind of money, I think at least a half dozen clear pictures of the rust prone areas of a 40 year old car should be put on line with the auction.


Anyway check out how clear these spotwelds are, and with a cheap camera.

Rob.



http://www.1969supersport.com/flrpan09.jpg

Can somebody enlarge this picture, I'm 66 years old looking through bifocals, please.

Rob



http://i8.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/bb/25/8759_1.JPG

It looses focus at 200%

Thanks for trying:thumbsup:

Bruce, you really should have put LS6 in your auction title. You will definately loose alot of potential viewers searching for a builder LS6.

If there's anyway to edit it, I would definately do so.

the auction title reads LS-6 1970 Chevelle numbers matching. as for any floor rust there isn't any. in your pic rubadub you have the car off the frame on a jig and area stripped to bare metal. a little easier to take a pic that way rather than with car on jack stands laying on my back. i'm going to try to get clearer pics today and edit ad. i realize you guys don't know me but there is no way i would try to sell something & be dishonest about it's condition. i have been on enough wild goose chases myself to never do that. again this is not a frame off car. i did not take body off owner didn't want to go that far.and considering the condition of car underneath i agree. other than painting everything correct underneath ther was no reason to. it needed no repairs of any kind.

Look again Bruce. 1970 CHevelle is the title and does not show up on a search of 1970 LS6.

LS6 is in the description, and will not show up unless search description box is checked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180166840962&ru=http://motors.search.ebay.com:80/180166840962_W0QQfromZR40QQfviZ1


EDIT: You listed as LS-6

My mistake 1970 LS-6 (9) items 1970 LS6 (83) items

i guess i shouldn't have put a - i should have just put LS6 anyway i don't know why i'm defending a car i don't own i realize it's hard to tell from a pic the actual condition of something. i guess with all the scammers & fakes out there everybody looks for a reason to discredit something.

I FOUND IT:) that is a nice looking car. with lots of potential. looks legit. the build sheet in under tar paper good luck. but i think the car speaks for itself.

Stamps look good.

Let's see where she goes.

I'd recommend adding LS6 to your title for maximum exposure.

Good Luck.

i bet my left testical that is born with stamp. now the question is does it match the vin plate. and con vin oops sorry arlington cars have no con vin:sad:

hey dude you need to be digging for buildsheet. like now and add that to the ebay add. and rename it like 1970 CHEVELLE SUPER SPORT LS6 454 4SPD:yes:

Oh Yaaaaaaaaa Im winning the auction. If only I could afford the full reserve !!!!!!!!!

dont bid no more according to the federal laws there no way to tell if it is REAL.

i have had the carpet out of it & peeled up tar paper nothing. i must say though i didn't take tarpaper completley out just peeled it up & looked under neath. and on bottom side.peeled it all up. we have both been all over this car and can not find a build sheet. i should have included a pic of vin in dash it matches the block. i have so many pics of car it was hard to decide which to use so i put pics of how it sits right now. the temporary title paper you get from the secretary of state till the other one comes from the state when you tranfer a car is still in the glove box with the previous owners name & date. current owner bought in in 1978 along with registrations last one is 1992. i thought all along this car deserved a frame off job. but owner just wanted to do the bodywork & engine compartment & drive it,but he got bit by the dragracing bug again & just bought a tube chassis Nova so we are going to see if it's desirable to someone. if not i will finish paint work over the winter & he will have a nice LS6 i guess there are worse things in life to be stuck with. i tried to change the title of ad but couldn't.

i was just kiddin about the not be'n real. it looks legit to me.

Hummm wonder what that reserve is. Im sure its out of my budget.

just ask your mortgage company how much equity you have in your house

I know I cant afford this one but I got 25k for any 70 LS6 running Numbers car with Buildsheet. I dont care if its been rolled or burned !!!!!!!!!!
Im sure Im not alone here.

who would have ever thought a piece of paper could affect the value of a car by 30-40 %. i took some better pics of car today with the camera set to a higher resolution' i don't know if any of you noticed the old dragster in the backround of some of the pics. i'm trying to find out info about these old dragsters anybody know where i can get some help on that one. been after this car for at least 5 years. don't want to race it or anything just restore it or make a planter out of it for the front yard!!!

Well that piece of paper ,assuming its real, would be the only way to validate the claim to being a Super Sport. Unless the numbers for the engine match the vin.

in this case the engine numbers do match the vin this car is the real deal.

from what i have seen i affirm

I know they match that is why I added that. :yes:

Bruce If I buy the car how much to finish it?

you can PM me to talk about it. it would depend if you just want me to take doors & front clip off paint color of your choice & re-assemble which is what i would do if it where me. or if you want me to get deeper into it. the car is clean enough to just finish painting without getting into it any deeper & you would have a way above average LS6. i can send you pics of stuff i have painted. if you have seen this years Flowmaster calendar i painted the Pearl orange 65 Mustang on the calendar i think its the month of march. i believe that car is also on the Super 44 boxes.

lowerd the reserve on LS6 and also lowerd the BUY-IT Now. this car is priced right in the ballpark. somebody is going to get a nice LS6 car for a very reasonable price.

I hate being Teased :)

how do you think i feel it's in my shop i get to sit in it everyday BUT ITS NOT MINE!!!

Maybe you should buy it and give it to me. :yes: :D

well its the last day of the auction wonder where it will end up. a lot of e-mails my guess is a deal will be struck after auction.

well its the last day of the auction wonder where it will end up. a lot of e-mails my guess is a deal will be struck after auction.

Or you could buy it and give it to me. ;):D

5 hours left and the bid is at 32k even - good luck.

come one fellas, someone buck up and bid, 50,000. grand. they aren't making anymore, this is the last chance, right now the high bidder is sweating. but i got an idea that at the last minute someone will go for the 50,000 then its too late. if you want the car and you can afford it you better not wait too late, go ahead and bid the 50,000. its worth it. if i had 50 grand i would pay it in a new york min. dang i am getting goose bumps. OH BUY THE WAY I AM IN OKLAHOMA AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AUCTION OR THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE CAR. good luck to whoever wins.

hey bigblock thanks for the sales pitch. iv'e had a lot of e-mails from guys that want to deal after auction ends. there hoping it doesn't sell. might hurt the auction. i see that happen when i go to the Kruse auction in Auburn IN. car won't hit reserve on the block but it sells 10 minutes later outside. seller doesn't get spanked as hard for seller fees that way.

someone might be waiting till the last minut so they can hit on 50 even and dont have to worry about somebody running them up any higher. 50 might be all they have and so they are gonna wait. i hate the suspence of it all.

hope your right its a nice car & we think priced right.

Well an hour and twenty minutes to go, I wonder how many are watching this.

Two years ago this car never would have made it to ebay, it would have been bought as soon as they heard about.

I still think it will be bought with the buy it now before the auction ends, this car is worth a lot of money, somebody needs to get a poll going right away, I don't know how to do it.

Anyway, there fun to watch.

Rob

there are 90 people watching the auction & i'm still answering e-mails & phone calls. it's sad to say but all the scammers out there have made everybody a little gun shy so everybody is a little cautious. can't stress enough IT"S REAL!!!!

I would never bid on such a large ticket item until last minute. In fact have you heard of swiping. Swiping is software you can use to bid very very last second. You give the software high amount and stand back and see if anyone goes higher.
Works Great.

If this car don't go for at least $50.000, I wouldn't want to be setting on one, and need to cash in.

Rob

39,900.00 will it hit 40??

Got to stay off now and watch the last couple of minutes.

It will be real close to 50 if it doesn't hit, I still think it will.

4 minutes, I'm getting nervous, and it isn't even mine:)

Unbelieveable. Thats a big change from two years ago.

it was pretty close to his bottom dollar for car. close enough that bidders should contact me. this isn't done yet!!!

went to 42,288.00

I'm sure somebody will take it for that.

Unbelieveable. Thats a big change from two years ago.

How is it a big change ??? More or less ???? Whats this say to the present market ????

I think its a remarkable car and worth about what the auction hit. No more no less. The car will need alot of TLC but well worth it when done. If only it had a build sheet. I would add 20%

How bad is the present market ?????

Well two years ago in June a guy I know with a 70 L78 matching numbers (almost) with a ce date coded motor and build sheet was bid up to $90,000, and he turned it down, the next year it only went up into the $60's.

has anyone seen the LS6 tribute on ebay "buy it now" for $69,900?
[B]A TRIBUTE!!! FOR $70,000!!!! [B]

This wasn't on ebay, but Mecums

Its the digital camera and the computer, there looking these cars over better then they used to, its like there getting educated.

i am amazed, cant believe it. what is wrong, must be people are too scared, but am still convinced that it is a good deal even at 60. yes i have one too. and that just floors me, maybe there should of been a stipulation that if we misrepresented the car in anyway that the buyer would not have to purchase, wow. oh well someone will loose out. i still say that the build sheet is under the tar paper heck if they just threw it in there it could be anywhere in front, maybe closer to the firewall, did you guys pull all the tarpaper out.

Whats the ebay number for the tribute

i saw the tribute car gor 69K this one is real for 19K less just needs paint sprayed on it. sure wouldn't take anywhere 19K to finish and it would be real!! 43K won't get this one but it's reasonably close. let the E-mails begin!!!

Whats the ebay number for the tribute
260168336290. this is the auction number for the tribute for $70k

Its still for sale

i didn't pull the tarpaper all the way out. just lifted carpet pryed up tarpaper as best i could & looked. tarpaper had never been disturbed. headliner has never been out of car either. maybe owner should come over & give me a hand taking out interior completly. worst case we end up paying upholstery guy to put headliner back in. we discussed stating if winning bidder wasn't happy he didn't have to follow through but thought that might lead to somebody slamming in really high bid for the right to look at it & then find some excuse to back out. then it leaves a cloud of mystery if we re-list why didn't bidder take it. i will say this it's real & owner or i would cover gas if somebody comes here & proves it's not real!!!

this is kinda of depressing my car should be finished next spring, and it's the only documented special ordered camaro gold ls6 that i know of, and that hurts my feelings. am wasting my time? i sure hope not. i know my uncle would pay alot more than that to have it back fully restored. i guess i do understand about the build sheets, its even an arlington built car so that gives a good reason for the build sheet to of not been found. i found mine but it was destroyed and when i put the tarpaper on the dryer. well! exwife tossed it. dryer and trash can were almost side beside, did i mention i said ex wife. matter or fact that is the first thing her lady lawyer wanted in the divorce, fortunatly for me it has been in my family since new. and it was a premarital asset.

I looked up an old post of mine from two years ago, where I said we would see the clones going for more then the matching numbered cars, I guess I wasn't to far off.

This isn't true yet, and we may never see it, but they are looking at the quality of a restoration more then they used to.

And I really believe you have the real deal there Bruce.

Anyway when I made that statement, i sure heard about it.

Well times change.

Heres the thread.

Aug 30th, 05, 07:27 PM
rubadub (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/member.php?u=21168) http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Team Member http://www.chevelles.com/forums/team_member.gif
Rob
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: two rivers wi.
Posts: 3,483


http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Clones
On august 2nd there was a lot of opinions voiced on clones in this section of the forum. I said that someday you would see the day that a clone is worth more then a matching number car, it was a fairly heated discussion, and I don't think its a bad thing, after all we're all car people which is very enjoyable to be able to talk to someone with the same interests.

Now to the point of this.

The Sept 2005 edition of muscle car enthusiast "Chip Foose 69 Camaro". Some were allready spoken for before press time, they start out at $109,000 up to $179,000. Some of these will probably be built with plain or SS bodies, they plan to do 500 of them, they call them limited edition turn-key essentialy new muscle cars rebuilt ground up latest suspension, crate engines, newer technology.

If you take a plain jane camaro and refit it with components that are not original equipment, what do you call it, a resto-rod, clone or limited edition, anyway you call it, the day that this type of car is worth more then a lot of matching numbered cars is here. I rest my case

Rob.
__________________
"There are questions to be answered, and answers to be questioned"


Jigs, sandblasting, shop, paintroom, rotisserie, pictures, little bit of everything.
http://www.1969supersport.com (http://www.1969supersport.com/)
Last edited

i am telling you it is under tarpaper. i would go out right now and get it. you only have something to gain. but be cautious you will need clean 6 on 8" taping knife. i dont know if it would be better warming the floor underneath or not. maybe someone will chime in. you can use acrysol to clean it.

Like Johnnie says, If it was me, I would be looking right now, but go after it like they do on one of these dinosaur digs, very carefully so you don't damage it.

your build sheet is the key to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbo:yes:

and when you find it and get it out in good condition you can thank me later.

That was a good time watching the bidding.

Unbelieveable. Thats a big change from two years ago.

The market on these cars is going down - But overall from 5 years ago it's way up. That car is a great machine and whoever gets the car and finishes it will have an incredible chevelle. I do believe that the build sheet issue kept this one down and I don't think anyone would argue that. Build sheet = 65k.

No doubt the build sheet held it down, does that mean that close to a third of one of these cars is in the paper work, I guess so.

I'm probably not the only one on here thinking about going and get it, and take the chance on finding it.

If I wasn't so darn slow at putting one of these together, I would consider going and get it. I'd probably be six feet under before I got it painted.

Well Bruce, how much will it take to get it?

Lets get 10 of us for 5k a piece and go for it, plus whatever Bruce wants to finish it, and let him do it. A 5k investment to maybe get a fifty % return, and not have to do anything, hmmmmmm!

Thats better then the stock market, then we keep the car in the family for a little while.

No doubt the build sheet held it down, does that mean that close to a third of one of these cars is in the paper work, I guess so.

Paperwork with the hardware to back it up. It's a package deal. One without the other hurts. The hardware without the paperwork will take away from the value, but the paperwork without the hardware is worthless.

And as I already stated the prices are down. We are all looking at this car and thinking of the prices they topped out at. The top is lower guys. This was probably a good price for that car TODAY. Last year it would have sold at the BIN price.

Pretty much true, now back to my idea, you guys send me the money, and I'll take care of the details:)

i thought i gave it a good shot at looking for build sheet but you guys have me thinking. i never did completly gut the interior. i may spend a couple hours tomorrow and take out seats again and take carpet completly out and remove all the tarpaper. if nothing else i can get good pics of inside of floors. what i did see of inside of floors still had factory white paint on them. if i find it there are gonna be some sorry bidders out there. i leave the final price up to the owner at this point i'm fielding offers but 43K was kinda close.

I've been doing a little searching for where build sheets have been found, if I find anything out of the ordinary I'll put it right on, I'm still looking.

Heres a little more on build sheet locations.



http://www.novas.net/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif Build Sheet Locations
.

Imagine forty years ago. You are employed by GM to work on a boring assembly line. Your job is to install the console and gauges. Every car coming down the line has a clip board attached to it with over twenty build sheets on it. It identified the car with the ordered options to be installed. Now not every car got a console, so you would look at the build sheet and take one to get the parts (like gauges mounted to the console and the console wiring harness). You do your thing and install the console. Now you can take your build sheet and walk all the way to the trash can and throw it away like you are supposed to; or you can be lazy and stuff it in the car while you are working under the dash (You can not leave it under the carpet like the guy ahead of you did because the console goes in after the carpet is laid down). Remember time is of the essence, the car is still moving towards completion.

The guys that also install the interior parts have been known to leave them inside the doors between the cardboard door covers and the weatherproof tar-paper, under the seats, on top of the glove box, in the trunk under the package tray. Anywhere that a customer wouldn't find it without tearing the car apart to find it. The guy who installed the rear end with the correct gear ratio usually left his on top of the gas tank, which protected it from the weather. There are build sheets stuffed in between the inner and outer fenders by the guy that installed the motor (usually destroyed by time and weather, though partials have been found), under the cowl, in the heater core box, or wiper motor cavity; anywhere you could stuff a piece of paper.

You just have to remember that this was trash to the worker, not a valuable source of documentation. He was trying to get rid of his trash (this includes Coke bottles, memos, gum wrappers) without being caught by their supervisor. You know what they say, "One man's trash, is another man's treasure." Happy hunting.

iv'e seen every inch of this car except under headliner and i didn't take all the tarpaper out. i have heard before that under the tarpaper was the best shot on an Arlington car.

Another place to look that they have been found.

behind the plastic seat backs on front buckets

hey guys listen to me, it is under the tarpaper. drivers side front floorboard, his car was built a month before mine at the arlington plant, his vin number is 228000 and mine is 250000, to my knowledge the only build sheets for these car were all found where i stated. i only know of about 6 that are documented and all found there. only one per car was ever found. and they look like sh-t all brown and tar'ee lookin.:yes::thumbsup: hey does that car have non tinted glass, that is the way my dealership ordered the L78'S AND LS6'S.

Keep our fingers crossed:)

it has tinted glass

i am in trouble:D my girlfriend gets off work from the hospital and i am supposed to be at home. so she can visit with me.:yes: but i am still at work chatting with all my car friends, about a cool car. :beers:

A man might want to have a couple beers before he peels that carpet back, calm him down.

Bruce, I don't know how old you are, or how good the ticker is, maybe you better let some kid look.:)

i guess at my dealer ship they were trying to shave off a little cost, they had 27 ss coupes at once, any engine combination you wanted ordered in special colors. non rpo colors.

iv'e found buildsheets before but it was in cars that it didn't make a whole lot of difference. in fact my 71 Chevelle drag car has the build sheet with it. it's an arlington car also. car was just a malibu. something interesting on build sheet though it was sold directly to Avis rent a car. think the owner will give me a finders fee!!! i already had bucket seat backs off nothing there.

no crap you might get the nitro pills out. dang i cant wait till tomorrow. and i really have nothing to gain from this. wait yes i do. ray allen got a million i want a million, heck i dont even think that blue white striped conv. even had the born with drive train. c'mon we have seen a 100 blue chevelles. i have even won a lot of races in mine.:D hey bruce you found it yet. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;) if i remember right when i was taking the tarpaper out of my car it was close to the hump and what sucks is i was net even looking for it. back in the early 90's we did not think of how important they were. i hate myself. cuz when i found it and started studying it i went to the dryer cuz the work bench was full got the light out and attempted to puzzle it back together but it was in bad shape. it is coming back to me as i type, of how excited i got. late in the night and in u for e uh:D. i left it there and that crazy lady i called my wife tossed it out like yesterdays trash. i fill like driving to arlington right now and strangling her. but my kids and her husband might not like that very much.

iv'e found buildsheets before but it was in cars that it didn't make a whole lot of difference. in fact my 71 Chevelle drag car has the build sheet with it. it's an arlington car also. car was just a malibu. something interesting on build sheet though it was sold directly to Avis rent a car. think the owner will give me a finders fee!!! i already had bucket seat backs off nothing there.hey i will give you a hint. TAR PAPER:D:thumbsup:

Got a picture of the girlfriend, then we can tell you wether you need to be concerned or not:)

i got plenty of pictures but she would really be pee'd at me then! she is always telling me HEY BIG MOUTH. DO YOU HAVE TO TELL EVERYTHING.:mad: and i say. only the good stuff:D she looks like anna nicole but not as big in every aspect. she looks a lot like the school teacher girlfriend in billy madson. adam sandler.:yes:

as soon as i find or don't find something tomorrow i will post. i better get up early before somebody shows up to buy it. if its there i'm gonna get my eyes checked cuz i got a pretty good look under tarpaper. till later today

i got plenty of pictures but she would really be pee'd at me then! she is always telling me HEY BIG MOUTH. DO YOU HAVE TO TELL EVERYTHING.:mad: and i say. only the good stuff:D she looks like anna nicole but not as big in every aspect. she looks a lot like the school teacher girlfriend in billy madson. adam sandler.:yes:

Just her face, but she sounds like a good looker, you better pay attention, or she'll get somebody that will:)

Good luck tomorrow Bruce.

i can't wait to find out... this is like one of those "edge of your seat" kinda moments. i hope he finds it

i can't wait to find out... this is like one of those "edge of your seat" kinda moments. i hope he finds it

Me to

Rob

sorry guys no build sheet i took out drivers side tarpaper nothing there. owner & i are both satisfied its not there. if new owner does finds it it will be the score of a lifetime. just talked to owner & 45,000.00 gets the car. if the market truly is down i see some money to be made if it gets finished & sat on for a little while. if it got to 42K sight unseen i gotta believe it will bring 45K after inspection.

just listed on this site in classified's here's a fellow members chance to own a numbers matching LS6

alright guys.... who's buyin' it?

Did You Check To Make Sure That Is Was Not Stuck To Tarpaper, After All These Years, It Is Now A Part Of The Tarpaper. Oh Well Just Another Confusing Thing About Arlington. I Wonder What State It Was Sold In.

i looked at it good under very good light. at least i got a good pic of the floor out of it. only place we haven't looked is under headliner & i'm not going to. i believe car was sold here in town new. Saginaw, MI i think for 45K build sheet or not this is a good price for this car.

I AGREE. have you taken the a pillar covers off, i have herd that they have been found there. anyway you slice it. the car will stand on its own two feet. i think that if the build sheet was found, it would make it a little more interesting. it's an arlington car, go figure.

i have seen every inch of this car behind A pilar covers,under carpet,under package tray,tank has been dropped, seat backs,dash, everywhere. we are thinking of re-listing it with a buy it now of $45000.00 & see what happens.

made a second chance offer to high bidder will see what happens.

Somebody will take it, if not it will be worth more by next spring. If you took the headliner out and put another one in, would that hurt the value of the car.

Rob

probably wouldn't hurt value of car. my interior guy could put it back in with no problem. i just don't think its up there. i dont think i have ever heard of one being found up there. i have only found them under carpet & in back seat. anyway getting some interesting offers i'm sure something will happen this week. in my opinion this car is a moneymaker if somebody sits on it till the market comes back. thats why the owners bottom line is 45K since he already owns it he can sit on it for a year & see if market comes back. if he does i still don't think he should paint it. i think it should stay he way it is till it finds a new home.

I hope I'm not bugging you to much, going on about build sheets, but I found some more stuff on them.

They do find them in the headliners on Arlington cars.

They have found them between the seat cover and foam

Sewn into the rear seat bottom

Glued to the driver side metal frame bucket seat under the seat bun.

And heres a thread on how to clean them up, and where they have found them.

Poll: build sheets on arlington cars? (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156192&highlight=build+sheet+headliner) (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/misc/multipage.gif 1 (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156192&highlight=build+sheet+headliner) 2 (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156192&page=2&highlight=build+sheet+headliner))

Rob

i like the trick of puting light up to headliner & looking for outline of build sheet. you can bet if i see that tomorrow i'm slicing that headliner out!!! i'll give it one last go tomorrow

Sounds good.