I did a search on this topic and found that most prefer the manual setup, im worried about my headers being in the way and I would just like to know what everyone has experianced.

I will be street driving this car only and i've never had it at the track.

Now I've seen the manual linkage all over the internet and a local gm salvage yard has the complete pedal and likage kit with z bar and all, BUT i've only seen one site that has a hydraulic kit and it was $640 and YIKES thats wicked. I was wondering, could i go to the junk yard and get a hydraulic clutch setup from say an 80's camero with a 5 speed manual? can i pull it off a lot of other vehicles? Are there any websites you know of that sell the kit cheaper? Thanks guys and gals

headers should not be a problem if car is a 71-chevelle,
get the brackets for a chevelle clutch and start shifting for yourself..........

You should be ok with your headers. I have big headers with a big block and its no problem. Was also no problem with my previous small block. The only problem I have ever heard of is the return spring might need to be mounted to a diff location, but that is no biggie.

Mechanical b/c eventually a hy-clutch WILL go south!!

A mechanical clutch linkage will wear out over daily driving time, but it's really easy to fix CHEAPLY!!

pdq67

In all my years of driving stick shift cars, I've only had one problem and that was a broken arm on a clutch cross shaft. Why complicate a simple thing?

would manual clutch setup be much cheaper also?

its 2:00 am and i can't sleep and havent been able to sleep since i got my tko600 about 3 weeks ago. I believe i might just finish buying everything i need this week and get working on it, these nights thinking about it are killing me. haha, manual or hydraulic centerforce II or DF? AHHH!!!

pedals?
flywheel?

I can see both jumping over the white fence every night....

Mine came with a mechanical linkage,so I left it alone,seems to work pretty good though.Only needed one new bushing in the Z bar.
Guy

nights thinking about it are killing me. haha, manual or hydraulic centerforce II or DF? AHHH!!!

pedals?
flywheel?

....

check with Ground Up or others on a pedal and manual linkage set-up:yes:
call centerforce and ask them about their aluminum flywheel and the aluminum pressure plate set-up and their recommendations for your car.:yes:
and/or call some other brand clutch tech lines and get their suggestions.:yes:
you can't go wrong with the factory linkage set-up unless you get the super high strength static pressure plate that you will need the legs of the hulk to keep depressed at the stop lights........:noway:

I cannot speak for all cars for which headers are made, but I've never run across a header/clutch linkage interference problem on any of the cars that I've worked on (mostly Chevys) over the years.

Unfortunately, I can't speak for cars with auto trannys because auto trannys are against my religion! :D

Okay I am ready to buy the rest of the remaining parts for my tko600 swap.

I believe im going to go for the manual linkage, it seems much cheaper, and everyone on here says there's no problem with it.

Should i be looking for an original complete kit? or can i buy the new stuff off the internet? AND if im going to find something original, whats the most important parts that need to be original so i dont have any fitting problems?

I think im going to get a steel flywheel and centerforce II clutch and pressure plate.

I was to get all of this stuff by the end of this weekend so i can install it next weekend

also, could you guys get back to me about taking a hydraulic clutch setup from another car or truck? I asked my father for a suggestion and he said "you're not drag racing, it s pleasure car, you're foolish if you dont get a hydraulic clutch." I don't want to dissapoint him so i have to do all my research and try my best to fulfill his standards. He was against my idea of the tko600, now that i've already gone for it, he thinks hydraulic is the only way to go. :confused:

If it were you, would to buy any of these? or would you say theres no way they are going to fit perfect..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-72-Chevelle-SS-454-Clutch-Brake-Pedal-Linkage-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10076QQihZ011QQitem Z320120982293QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V#ebayphotohost ing

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=FMCK-68&Category_Code=TRANSMISSIONSMANUAL

http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?topcatid=30&chapterid=821&topvalue=0&newflag=0&grpcode=11133&yearrange=

http://www7.mailordercentral.com/trueconnections/prodinfo.asp?number=CL%2D6850

http://www.camarosandclassics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ChevelleClutchandBrakePedalAssembly

Get a billet flywheel. Cheap insurance. Also you may want to run a scatter shield/bell housing depending on your use of the car.......

I already have a stock bellhousing, the car is going to be used for street use only.

Why did you get a TKO600 instead of a Muncie? New design versus old design? OD, etc...

Why do you think virtually all (probably all) newer cars use hydraulic linkage?

If Hydraulic linkage was that bad, then would OEM's use it (and risk the liability with warrantee issues)...

Personally, I'd say it comes down to price... If you already spent the money on a nice "modern" transmission, then why not use a nice modern clutch linkage system? Especially since you are starting from scratch...

$640 for Hydraulic? Does that include the pedals?
Isn't it going to be $250+ for repro linkage/pedals anyway? And while "original" might be better quality than repro, its all going to be 35+ years old...

Just a bit more to think about and keep you up at night.:D


For me, only 3 things would lead me to "mechanical" linkage again...
1) price (but I haven't checked)
2) a true "restoration", where I wanted the "stock" look
3) The car was already set up for, and included linkage...

Looks-wise, if I was building a nice looking, but more modern car, I'd go hydraulic...

After my last Manual linkage car (my convertible), with the squeaking (rubbing the header tubes), trying to get it adjusted with limited room (again, mostly a header issue) and the wear/breakage (had the OEM bellcrank break, and several rod "ends" were pretty worn), I figured I'd want to go hydraulic if I ever built another manual trans Hot Rod...

I just did a TKO600 swap in my 66 and I went with the hydraulic clutch actuator. All I can say is that it is super smooth and does not have that typical hard release at the very end of the travel that I really find annoying with the mechanical setup. I'm running a McCleod twin disk clutch. It was expensive and a pain to install, but I didn't have any of the mechanical stuff anyway. I also didn't want to have to drill for the pivot ball on my 502 block. If I had to do it over again, I would still go with the Hydraulic.

wow, this is killing me... Right as im set to just go with the manual linkage and i have it all planned out, the thread gets erased from the current threads and i actaully am starting to sleep at night, YOU GUYS have to go and make me a nervous wreck about getting it just right. geez... what to do what to do? Well, if i go hydraulic i will use a dual clutch setup and if i use manual ill use the centefroce II.

Basically im on a budget, so unless there has been someone who has used a hydraulic clutch kit from another car from the junk yard, then i will probably use the manual linkage. The $640 was with out pedals or anything like that.

So, if anyone knows of a vehicle i can go on the hunt for to steal its hydraulic setup, let me know and I will do it. Also, there is a GM salvage yard with all kinds of late model cameros, firebirds, and corvettes... can i steal the hydraulic linkage from any of those?

thanks again for keeping me up at night...

I just did a TKO600 swap in my 66 and I went with the hydraulic clutch actuator. All I can say is that it is super smooth and does not have that typical hard release at the very end of the travel that I really find annoying with the mechanical setup. I'm running a McCleod twin disk clutch. It was expensive and a pain to install, but I didn't have any of the mechanical stuff anyway. I also didn't want to have to drill for the pivot ball on my 502 block. If I had to do it over again, I would still go with the Hydraulic.

Hello, on your hydraulic conversion did you just fab a bracket to mount the hydraulic master cylinder. Do you have any pictures?

Thanks,
Tom

You can not use another car's hydraulics to work with the TKO as the TKO was never installed in production car - it requires it's own hydraulic bearing.
I would go with manual linkage all the way (less expensive, less headaches, works just as well or better in some cases).
I would try to find good used GM parts, if not buy repops.

Hello, on your hydraulic conversion did you just fab a bracket to mount the hydraulic master cylinder. Do you have any pictures?

Thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom, I bought a full kit from Keisler Engineering. It cost me about $575 complete. The master is a Wilwood unit that Keisler adds a special mount to that aims it in the right direction towards the clutch pedal hole (sort of a wedge). I didn't take any pictures before I mounted it on the car. I doubt I can get a good pic now. It's right under my brake booster. Maybe Keisler has a pic on their site?

Good luck,
Tom

Hi Tom, I bought a full kit from Keisler Engineering. It cost me about $575 complete. The master is a Wilwood unit that Keisler adds a special mount to that aims it in the right direction towards the clutch pedal hole (sort of a wedge). I didn't take any pictures before I mounted it on the car. I doubt I can get a good pic now. It's right under my brake booster. Maybe Keisler has a pic on their site?

Good luck,
Tom

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u99/gac7773/67GM-A.jpg
Here is a picture of a 67 Chevelle master cylinder mounted.
This gives perfect postioning to the pedal.

We make them specific for 64-67 and 68-72 They work with our TKO kits.

Hydraulic Clutches eliminate pedal effort and make it the clutch engagment more fluid. They also make it easier to utlize many differnt header combos with out modifying the linkage.

We make complete bolt in Hydraulic kits for TKO in many applications.

Thanks Gene

In my 59 Elky, I used a bellhousing and slave for an 86 Chev pick-up and a master from an 88. I had to do this as the Sanderson Cast headers covered the pivot mount on the block.

The master on the Keisler kit appears to be very similar to the master that would be found on an 86/7 chev pick-up.

The bell on the truck has a mount for a slave (metric) and I also just used a basic GM TO bearing.

Downside to this is you would need the bellhousing spacer for the truck bell.

OEM's now use hy-clutch's for "packaging" purposes!

It's a whole bunch easier to rig two fixed points and then route a hose between them than to allow for room for all the mechanical cranks and rods to move in!

My '87 Chevy Sprint ER had mechanical and I loved it just like my '67 also has.

And I've got onna those b/h mount slave cylinders and my OEM b/h has an unthreaded hole on it for mounting it if I ever want to make it hy-clutched.

pdq67

I don't get it:confused: I have a 67 with Fast burn heads, custom made 1 3/4 headers, Canton pan etc and my stock clutch linkage works just fine.

If you have headers that won't work with the clutch linkage, then you bought the wrong headers or they are made wrong. I had to send mine back 3 time to have problems addressed but they fit and the clutch works.

Te stuff about lower pedal pressure, most clutches sold today are low pedal pressure, how much lower does it need to be????

Imho, you want a "higher" pedal pressure clutch if you have some serious POWER!!

Otherwise BIG POWER, go dual disc and put it in your will for after you are gone!!

My stock 11" that was like a Perfection/ZOOM was fine until I got ta dumping it at 35 to 4,000, (heck, even up to 5,000), behind my 406 w/ my M-20, 3.31 posi- and my L-60s that measured a modern 298/53-14!! I figure she was like a 2.90 or a 3.07 regr?? Not good at all on a clutch and PP!!

I finally got my PP so then I daily drove her in 3rd and 4th and grabbed and jerked shifted until I parked her!

Heck, I still have both out in the garage and the clutch plate still has it's new grooves on it's faces!! PP's diaphram fingers are heat un-tempered and warped tho!!

pdq67

PS., but my car would raise up, haze the big suckers and take off like a "rabbit outta the chute at a Dog-Track!!"...........

PDQ, the hydraulic clutch doesn't change the pressure that the pressure plate grabs the disc with, it just makes the pressure that is there feel a lot easier and smoother.