Competed in my first autocross [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Competed in my first autocross


69boo307
Nov 8th, 04, 12:27 PM
Well, with all the handling and braking work I've done I figured it was time to put them to the test, even though I'm still sporting the original 307 under the hood.

I entered an autocross put on by the TarHeel Sports Car Club. It was at an old airstrip,so the course was fairly long and narrow. This meant alot of slalom type obstacles, and one 'u-turn' or 'pivot' cone where you had to do basucally do a u-turn. The course had some nice open areas which could reward strong acceleration (followed by hard braking). Everyone got 4 runs. The field was definitely dominated by small imports, although there was a variety of other vehicles there including a couple of 4th gen fbodies, and a '67 camaro.

Here's my results/observations:

-Most of the autoX folks were very friendly and helpful towards newbies, it was a good experience. I only encounted one jackass, who seemed to have a superiority complex about his little girly-car, and thought that because we (myself and the '67 camaro owner) had old american cars, we must be totally ignorant as to principles of handling, braking, etc.

-I didn't hit a single cone, and only once did I experience a 'loss of traction event' due to a poorly timed turn (on the u-turn part of the course).

-I was very pleased with the way my car behaved, and it didn't give me any problems. Nothing overheated or broke. My brakes never got very hot, I didn't tax them at all. I did manage to lock the tires down once, during the aforementioned poorly timed turn.

-The NAPA steering box I installed last week was a savior, I couldn't have negotiated the course well at all with the stock steering ratio.

-I was pleased with my HTH suspension components. the car was just smooth, never felt out of control. It's supple enough to keep the tires on the pavement, but firm enough to prevent excessive body roll. Upon examining my tires I found that I got about 1/16" past the 'edge' of the tread, which tells me the tires were planted well and were'nt trying to fold up under the car as is typical of a big heavy car. Bottom line, I have nothing to rave about and nothing to gripe about. It just got the job done with predictibility and no drama. I didn't squeal and smoke tires, didn't get the rear of the car out away from me, didn't plow through the corners.

-All that said, my times were poor. Most street-tired cars were in the 58-63 second range. The '67 camaro, on a rebuilt stock-style suspension and considerably narrower tires than me, ran a best of 60 seconds and change. He did pretty well and was right in the mix of things. My two best runs were 67.7 and 67.8. I was dissappointed in that, considering how well I thought the suspension and brakes performed. The fact that I hit no cones, always felt under control, didn't get my brakes really hot, and only had one real loss of traction tells me for one that I wasn't driving aggressively enough and pushing the car hard enough. There was probably at least a couple seconds left there just in the driving. Secondly I think my absolutely pitiful power-to-weight ratio cost me 3-4 seconds on this course. It was a pretty fast course and allowed for some good speed if you had the power on tap. The numbers don't lie, I was definitely lacking somewhere.

It was good experience and I had fun despite my numbers, but I think I'll wait until I get a new motor in the car to try it again. smile.gif

Ron454
Nov 8th, 04, 12:39 PM
Nice job! Gald you had fun.
Jack asses appear in all form of racing....so don't worry about one turd.
Autocross takes lots of practice, so don't be dishearted. It's probably way more driver than it is car!
I haven't autocrossed in years, and when I did, it was with an alum V8 (olds 215) Vega wagon. What a blast! I got lot's of nice comments from the folks, but was in a class that I got smoked.
I have always thought it would be fun to take my Nova out and see how many cones I could knock down....but that won't win any friends in the autocross world......
I have also done road race training in my W41 Calais 442....another major blast. Nothing like approaching a corner at over 100mph not knowing if the car will slow enough.......
My heart is in drag racing...but these other forms of racing also have a lot to offer.
Cool deal.
Ron

Patrick Bellene
Nov 8th, 04, 1:11 PM
Brian,
Could you provide some more info on the quick ratio steering box? I've thought about changing my stock unit as well. Cost? Ease of install? Power or manual? Thanks.

1966_L78
Nov 8th, 04, 1:31 PM
It was good experience and I had fun despite my numbers Brian, It should be all about having fun and improving upon YOUR numbers until you really get used to it anyway... Winning is great, but its the racing that should be the fun part...

I can't imagine anybody really being competative there first time out anyway... Hopefully you and your car will continue to improve and someday hopefully beat alot of those cars...

69boo307
Nov 8th, 04, 1:38 PM
Originally posted by Patrick Bellene:
Brian,
Could you provide some more info on the quick ratio steering box? I've thought about changing my stock unit as well. Cost? Ease of install? Power or manual? Thanks. I have power steering, I replaced the PS pump at the same time, which was actually a MUCH bigger ordeal than replacing the gearbox. I bought a box from NAPA that is their fast ratio unit. If you look up the parts on their website you'll see two different boxes offered. The new box is listed as '2.5-3' turn I think, and the stock ratio is listed as '3.5-4' turn as I recall, on the napa website.
Installation was easy and straightforward, but definitely spend $15 for a pitman puller, without it I'd have never gotten it done! As I recall the box was $185 with an $80 core charge.

The PS pump is a whole other issue... had major problems finding the right one, and finally got a Cardone unit from Advanced Auto that got the job done.

New68SS
Nov 8th, 04, 2:01 PM
Brian,

Very nice job on the Malibu. Definatley one of the nicest I've seen!

Dwayne

New68SS
Nov 8th, 04, 2:23 PM
Brian,

Very nice job on the Malibu. Definatley one of the nicest I've seen!

Dwayne

RESTORX
Nov 8th, 04, 8:45 PM
The last time I autocrossed, I had a "misinformed" track worker continually tell me that I was missing a gate (I guess because my times were better than the ricers)... He didn't realize that the car was actually turning that kind of time! http://home.ntelos.net/~hemicuda/autox5.jpg

69boo307
Nov 8th, 04, 10:37 PM
RESTORX, did your username used to be Laps? That car looks really familiar...if it's the same one, that was a big inspiration for my work on my own car!

69chevelle355
Nov 9th, 04, 10:43 AM
glad to hear you had fun brian! im hoping to rebuild my suspension with polyurathane bushings and maybe an hth truckarm when i get it painted. which reminds me, i was up at south hills the other day and i'm a lot closer than i thought. is there anyway that sometime i could come check out big green and maybe bum a ride?
-Jay

-SS454-
Nov 9th, 04, 11:34 AM
awesome stuff. Dont get too down on the times of auto-X. Those tracks really benefit a compact, light-weight vehicle. Something thats like a go-kart. Hense why Miata's are usually very good. Big power means jack, since u cant really use it. Its about mechanical grip, a set of sticky tires would be a huge huge improvement. The more u do it, the more you'll get used to the cars and your own limits. Dont expect to be as good as Michael Schumacher, just go out and have fun. smile.gif

69boo307
Nov 9th, 04, 11:43 AM
Well, I wasn't really worried about hanging with the miata's and subaru's, but I was quite dissappointed that I didn't hang with the '67 camaro out there. The driver was also a novice, I think it was his 2nd event. I had much more rubber under the car and what should be a far superior suspension and brake setup. The biggest difference was that he had a much better power-to-weight ratio. He flat out spanked me though, by 7 seconds. I think he gained alot of time in the straight areas, and just out-drove me.

Thad
Nov 9th, 04, 12:49 PM
Congrats on the fun you had.
You car is very nice, but that 307 isn't helping.
And is without a doubt the weak link.

Everytime you change direction, you scrub off speed, and with the mass of a Chevelle a more powerful engine will make a very big difference in getting the speed back.

AC Bristols weren't fast, AC/Shelby Cobras were brutally fast.

RB69SS396Conv
Nov 9th, 04, 6:42 PM
Think, chasing a baby around under a dining room suite, dodging the chair legs, without knocking any chairs over. I don't care how big and strong you are, or how agile or quick you are, or how sticky your jeans knees are; the baby is going to kick your butt. Every time, no questions asked, no other outcome is possible.

Auto-X is only worthwhile for comparing cars that are alike to each other, as far as the raw lap times. That's why they divide the cars up into the classes the way they do. It's totally meaningless to try to compare lap times by cars that are different. Keep in mind that the Camaro probably weighs 10-15% less than your car, and can pack as much rubber under it and as much power; expect that if you can come within 10% of its lap times, you're at least in the same ball park.

Also keep in mind, that a very small difference in speed carried through the corners, translates into a HUGE difference in lap times. Rather like how getting a .1 better 60' time on the drag strip translates into a .2 second better ET. Except that on the cone course, it happens over and over again during a lap. And, the one place you have a chance to make that up, is coming out of the corner; if you can avoid pushing the front end or wheel hop or spinning out. Your rear LCA angle may be part of what's killing you, because you can't get on the gas as hard and as soon as you might otherwise. Although with a 307, traction under power is less likely to be as big of an issue than some other setups.

69boo307
Nov 10th, 04, 7:55 AM
Originally posted by RB69SS396Conv:
Your rear LCA angle may be part of what's killing you, because you can't get on the gas as hard and as soon as you might otherwise. Although with a 307, traction under power is less likely to be as big of an issue than some other setups. [/QB]I agree with alot of what you said, but I have to respectfully disagree with that...the whole point of the truckarm setup is to give you an ideal LCA angle and eliminate any kind of bind, one of its biggest strengths is powering out of corners.

RB69SS396Conv
Nov 10th, 04, 6:44 PM
truckarm So your rear suspension and frame aren't stock? No wonder you're not happy with your times. You're racing against heavily modded cars, if you've changed that.

As the car goes around a corner at speed, look at the angle that your outside rear LCA makes with the ground. Obviously the car body will be lower on that side and higher on the side that's inside, as compared to when it's sitting still. If the LCA on the outside of the corner becomes such that its rear end end is higher than its frame end, then what happens, is literally that as the rear end tries to accelerate (push) the car, it's lifting itself off the ground. That causes wheel hop or tire spin.

"Bind" isn't the issue. It's simple geometry and physics.

Like any form of racing, it will help to analyze where you're losing time; which of course is where you lack traction. Going into the corner, coming out of the corner, or braking or acceleration, or rolling through the center of the corners; figure out where it is that you're getting beat. Driver technique (practice ..... lots of sets of nice expensive tires) is often an issue.

91 Camaro
Nov 10th, 04, 8:54 PM
Ditto to what's already being said. Get seat time... other than tires that's what will lower your times the most. One of the biggest and best mods for powering out of corners once you have good tires is a better diff. Torsen has one called the T2R that really helps bring the car out of the turn faster. Lots of fbody guys use it with awesome success. It's built for the 10bolt and smaller ford rears.

69boo307
Nov 11th, 04, 9:15 AM
thanks for the comments guys.

I really don't think I have a problem with my rear setup...not yet anyway. I don't have enough horsepower to get the rearend out with the old 307, I can absolutely floor itout of a sharp turn, and unless I'm deliberatly trying to cut a donut, the rear stays planted.
I have to attribute my poor times to lack of accleration and conservative driving. I never experienced any traction problems, the car went where I pointed it. I just didn't point it fast enough :D .

I have an Eaton posi with 3.42 gears, in an 8.5" 10-bolt. So far I've been pleased with it.