: Help me rebuild this combo
Steve1972 Sep 13th, 07, 11:11 AM I never really new what was in the motor in my chevelle, other than it was not a powerhouse. I pulled the motor, opened it up and here is what I have:
Car is a Full Body 1972 Chevelle
Transmission will be a 700r4 (going in when I put the motor back in)
TCI Breakaway converter, listed as 2400-2600 stall
3.42 12 bolt posi
26" tires
350 bored .040 over
Not sure what the piston's are, they have 4 valve reliefs and a raised ring?
Sportsman II heads, Not sure if they are 64cc or 72cc
Crane cam 260 H10 (part #100032)
Edelbrock Performer EPS
Holley 3310 750 vac. Secondaries
Hedman 1 5/8 headers
HEI ignition
This is a weekend driven car, that won't get much track time, what I'm looking for is a throw you back in the seat hang on cruiser. I'd like to keep the bottom end and the heads. I know the sportsman's aren't top of the line, but it's what I have.
Cam lift and duration numbers are over my head, but when the catalog description for the one I have uses words like "fuel ecomony",and "nice smooth idle" as selling points, I assume I need a new one.
The Performer intake is also for lower RPM's, so I have thought of going to an RPM air gap?
And I've read that the 750 carb is plenty big for a 350, so I have thought of getting a 670 street avenger or somthing else.
So, what would you keep, what would you suggest to fix this combo?
Thanks
Steve
firestone13914 Sep 13th, 07, 3:26 PM I think you have some good stuff to start with. I had a motor that worked really well and I think was something like what you may be after. Here is what my car was (was... because I wrecked it)
1972 pontiac ventura (same as a nova)
355 (.030 over 350)
10:1 compression
650 holley carb
performer RPM intake
Vortec heads
XE268H cam
1 5/8th inch hooker comp headers
nothing roller
GMPP hei
700R4 tranny 1900 stall
3.90 gear
26" tire
This combo ran around 3000 RPM at 80 MPH on the interstate and got 18 MPG. The really great thing about it is that it was a tire fryer. Anywhere in first gear would boil the tires if you floored it. Based on other people, I guess it was a high 12 low 13 second car and around 375 hp.
Although that worked well, I would consider a couple of changes for your setup.
First is the heads. They may not be the best heads in the world but they are way better than stock. Because you are getting a bigger cam, you will have to get different springs. If the heads are going to be apart anyway, I would highly recommend just getting them freshend and some clean up port work done. That will go a really long way toward what you are after. As far as what that will cost, this should give you an idea:
This is from a company called Revolutionary Performance in Tennessee.
Porting - V8 Econoport - includes bowl blend plus narrowing intake guide and full exhaust porting $500
Competition valve job - includes setting seat heights and spring pressures (Most V8) $200
I really think this would go a long way towards acheiving what you are after.
The next thing is the "raised ring" in the piston. I can only guess that this means that they are dished pistons. If that is the case, you probably have pretty low compression which is hurting your performance quite a bit. It also limits what you will be able to run for a cam. Once you find out what the combustion chamber size is on the heads, and if your pistons are dished, I would recommend a new set of hyperutectic pistions to get your compression somewhere in the 9.5-9.8:1 range.
The fact that you have a 700R4 is a great thing as long as it can stand up to the power. They have a really low first gear which makes things fun, and an overdrive for the interstate. The only thing that is a little bit of a downside to the 700R4 is the relatively large drop in RPM between gears. With my 3.90 gear I hardly even noticed it. With a 3.42, you might see a little bit of a dullness in power right when you shift when racing or getting on it. People often caution against the first to second gear drop, but that was never a problem for me. I saw it going from second to third. If I didnt take the motor to 6000 RPM in second, it fell on its face for just a second going into third. In the end, I would probably give the 3.42's a try and if you dont like them, try some 3.73's or 3.90's
The headers, carb, and ignition should work great. The 750 is probably a little on the large side, but I really think the $500 for a new carb could be spend better elsewhere. If you really hate it when you get it done, you can always change it in the future.
As for the intake, from what I can find, the performer EPS is not much over a stock replacement. I would highly recommend a Performer RPM. The airgap should be fine, but I have heard some people warn against it in cold climates (I dont know why)
I am pretty sure the sportsman II heads have a 200cc runner which would probably like a ~2500-6000+ RPM range cam best. Being that you have a 2400-2600 stall, I would recommend a cam that is recommend for that stall. I had a hydraulic flat tappet and it worked great, you can go roller if you have the money though. As for a hyd flat tappet that I would recommend, I think the comp XE274H wtih some 1.6 rockers would work great. Here are the specs
274 286 advertised duration 230 236 @.050 .490 .490 lift (.520 .520 with 1.6 rockers)
1800-6000 RPM
2200+ stall recommended
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_29330_-1
I think this would work really well with your setup. I beleive you would be at 400 hp minimum with this combo. Below is a dyno sheet for a 355 with the dart S/R heads which I beleive are very similar to yours. It also has the xe274h cam but with 1.5 rockers, 9.25:1 compression, and a regular performer intake. I think the porting, 9.8:1 compression, performer RPM intake, and 1.6 rockers would easily make 30 hp more than this combo. They would also make more torque but this one is already making 410 ft lbs at 3900 RPM.
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/DynoSheets/XE274H-10_001.asp
I hope all that helped.
Adam
Steve1972 Sep 13th, 07, 3:50 PM Thanks for the info Adam. They are dished pistons, I was hoping to see a part number on them to tell the size, but haven't found one. Here is a picture:
9136
And I've been trying to find out what cc my heads are, but the tech I called at World Products wasn't any help. I have part numbers stamped on the pad, but they don't match their current part numbers. He told me I should be able to tell if they are a 64 or 72 cc by looking at them. He said they should look like a Kidney, or a letter D. I'm sure if they are side by side its easy but I can't tell. Here's a Picture:9135
They are a 200cc runner. If I go with 1.6 rockers, I do have to elongate the push rod holes.
I will check into porting prices, the heads aren't supposed to have many miles on them, so I was hoping to not have to take them apart, but if I have to do springs, I will look into porting.
I rebuilt the 700r4 last winter, and put a fair amount of good parts in it, so I hope it holds up.
I think I really need to figure out my compression ratio.
Thanks again for you help, if anyone else has any advise, keep it coming
Steve
firestone13914 Sep 13th, 07, 3:56 PM I am pretty sure you will not have to modify the push rod holes at all, but you will most likely need longer push rods. On the other hand, you will probalby have to buy new push rods anyway with the new cam. One other thing about the 1.6 rockers is that while they add nicely to the top end power, they do take a little away from the bottom end. I dont think it will be a problem for you, the one test I saw only made a 2 hp difference at 2600 RPM. As for the heads, any shop can CC the heads for you. That should cost little to nothing to have done.
Adam
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