Just as the title says tongue.gif

Alright, I'm just gonna get straight to some things that I would like cleared up:

-What is a stall kit?
-What is a shift kit?
-Why do some people say that a standard is quicker when you know how to drive, whereas some say an auto is quicker every time?
-What does it mean when a block is decked?

That's all I can think of right now. :D

a stall kit??? I assume you mean stall converter,which lets the engine stall to a higher speed getting it in a more useable or powerful rpm range.

a shift kit reduces the lag in shifting in a stock transmission,shifts quicker,firmer and less wear and tear on clutches and less heat build up in transmission.

I'll take an automatic everytime, less spinning,quicker shifting is debateable,less shock on the drivetrain, a standard transmission is more efficient,less slippage which in theory would make it quicker, but definately more mph,what you lose at the line spinning you'll never make up by the end of the 1/4 mile.

the deck is the top of the block where the cylinder heads mount,decking is cleaning them up(read level) and making cylinders on both sides of the block equal or same length
and gets the piston closer to the top of the deck when its at Top Dead Center. Stock the piston may actually be down in the hole up to .040,,,decking may get it closer to a zero deck heighth,,,keep it down .006 or so,so it can be cleaned up again if need be.

I'm sure others have their own opinions on this subject.... ;)

Yes, I did indeed mean stall converter. I had a notion of what all of those things were, and they were all correct. I just didn't want to go talking before I knew for sure what I was talking about ;)

A trukly gifted driver with a manual transmission will outrun an automatic,but most will benifit from an automatic.It's apples to oranges,and the manual is much more efficient.It does,however,need to be in the right hands. graemlins/waving.gif Steve

Correction; That's "truly" gifted. I thinks I've had a few too many graemlins/beers.gif . Steve

A word on converters

ALL Torque converters have a stall speed.!!! High performance converters have a higher stall speed.

I hate it when people say they have a "stall converter." Thats like saying your car has an engine.

At low engine RPMs you want the engine to be free to turn without applying much force to the transmission. This is when you want the converter to be "Stalled". The term "stall" applies to converters much the same way it applies to wings. The lifting medium (in this case it's trans fluid instead of air) is moving to slowly to provide an effective force on the output shaft of the converter.

As engine speed increases you want the the car to move. In the converter the fluid speeds up to a point where the "airfoils" in the converter are no longer stalled and force is applied to the tranmission.

Stock engines generally need a converter with a low stall speed, probably around 1000-1500 RPM. This is because most stock engines have a power band that has good power that low.

Higher performance engines generally have been built for higher RPM usage and therefore require a converter with a higher stall speed. How high will depend on your engine and vehicle specifics.

Good converters will transition from stalled to unstalled smoothly and firmly with very little slippage when unstalled.

Hope this helps

WOW, thats the best description of a torque converter(almost said stall :D ) I have ever heard graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by ssal396:
WOW, thats the best description of a torque converter(almost said stall :D ) I have ever heard graemlins/thumbsup.gif I was thinking the same thing and said to myself, "This guy must be an aircraft mechanic or pilot" Check out his profile, if anyone knows "stall" he does.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who cringes at the term "stall converter" Thanks Clark graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Jeff

When it comes to flying in an airplane or helicoptor, I'd rather not be too familiar with the term "stall". :eek: :D

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
...I'll take an automatic everytime, less spinning,quicker shifting is debateable,less shock on the drivetrain, a standard transmission is more efficient,less slippage which in theory would make it quicker, but definately more mph,what you lose at the line spinning you'll never make up by the end of the 1/4 mile...I have only one comment to make. If this is true, why is it that every NHRA Pro Stock competitor is running a stick?

Originally posted by 383Malibu:
I have only one comment to make. If this is true, why is it that every NHRA Pro Stock competitor is running a stick? I thought the rules dictated it? Also, are there automatics that could handle those engines? And additionally, are there automatics that make individual ratios changeable so easy? All questions, not answers.

Originally posted by Clark:
I hate it when people say they have a "stall converter." Thats like saying your car has an engine.Or like when the guy with a lopey engine says "yeah.....it's got a cam in it."

Originally posted by 383Malibu:
I have only one comment to make. If this is true, why is it that every NHRA Pro Stock competitor is running a stick? From what I've read/heard, a stick in a Pro Stock car has about as much in common with a Muncie 4spd as a pit bull with to a poodle.

In other words, they are completely different animals.

A "manual" shift 5 speed is required in Pro Stock. That said, don't tell Ronnie Sox that an Auto is better. He proved, many times, that he was better (faster) with a 4 spd and a Hurst shifter. An automatic eats horsepower, spinning all that stuff. Not as bad in a traditional 4 speed.
http://www.nhra.com/anatomy/ps_anat.htm

QUOTE]Or like when the guy with a lopey engine says "yeah.....it's got a cam in it." [/QB][/QUOTE]


You gotta love that question

There's a guy from this part of the country running an automatic in a Pro Mod,Ron Muenks, they were just made legal this year in that class,,,but due to the politics he may never get a chance to run in the big show,but he holds his own in the Texas outlaw Pro Mod races.... those sticks you speak of in Pro Stock may as well be automatics, in a Lenco all they do is pull the lever,no clutch involved,cept starting and stopping. I guess if you got enough rubber on the ground ya aint got to worry about spinning your wheels. My statement was mainly directed towards your average street/strip car.I've had 3 cars and 1 truck with a manual transmission,I'd venture to say i can speed shift with the best of them,as far as parts breakage goes...like I've always said"make mine automatic"

Originally posted by TH:
From what I've read/heard, a stick in a Pro Stock car has about as much in common with a Muncie 4spd as a pit bull with to a poodle.

In other words, they are completely different animals. Not really... If you open up one of the current "clutchless" trannies, you will see that, with the exception of the slider gears, the basic design hasn't changed in 50 years. There has probably been more advancement in the clutch technology than in the trannsmission.

And, if you go back and check the national records when the NHRA stock classes were segregated into automatic and stick classes (before bracket racing), you will see that most (granted, not all) of the stick records were faster than the automatics.

If you really want to compare apples to apples when talking about sticks and "slush boxes" (automatics), then you need to disallow all aftermarket parts (convertors, automatics, clutches and standard transmissions) and compare the performance of any of the factory performance cars (Z-28s, Mustangs, etc.) with an automatic versus a stick. I believe you'll find that the sticks are quicker (et) and faster (mph).

Once you allow the automatic guy to start changing convertors and beefing up and lightening his tranny, you have to allow the stick guy to also take advantage of the latest clutch and shifting technology.

no slushboxes for me, rowing your own is way more fun IMO. Most people around here went to automatics because the four speeds were all used up and not available locally. Muncie 4 speeds sell for $700 if you can find one. The TKO600 looks like one of the best trannies out there.

Roger:

Look at Stock eliminator A/S is quicker then A/SA, but B/S and C/S are bother slower then B/SA and C/SA

A Stock:
ET 9.86 MPH 135.72

A Stock Automatic
ET 9.96 MPH 131.81

B Stock:
ET 10.16 MPH 131.53

B Stock Automatic:
ET 10.01 MPH 130.54

C Stock:
ET 10.46 MPH 127.03

C Stock Automatic:
ET 10.31 MPH 127.33


If that doesnt make the comparison for you (for whatever reason) Then look at Super Stock:

SS/A: 8.72 @ 154.7

SS/AA: 8.58 @ 151.92

SS/B: 9.09 @ 146.43

SS/BA: 8.79 @ 150.72

SS/C: 9.18 @ 147.41

SS/CA: 9.10 @ 146.32


So, in comparison of all of the Quickest Super Stock classes, the Automatic records are quicker.

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
...So, in comparison of all of the Quickest Super Stock classes, the Automatic records are quicker... Brian - in today's world that obviously is true. That's why I stated "before bracket racing" (meaning the '60s and '70s) in my comment. BTW, are clutchless trannies allowed in Stock and Super Stock classes? Because the guys running automatics are certainly taking advantage of the latest technology (light weight, minimum resistance...).

If you look at the various heads up series being run around the country today. They have a 200 - 250 lb handicap for sticks. So obviously those rules makers feel that the automatics need an edge to keep up with the sticks.

FWIW, going from a clutch assisted 5 speed to a Liberty clutchless 5 speed was worth .35 seconds and 3.5+ mph in our Malibu.

Back when the rules used to say "any gear set that will fit in the original case" Joe Liberty and Doug Nash came up with over running gears sort of like a lathe, that would allow shifts like a Lenco, but without the clutch packs. As soon as NHRA got wind of the improved tranny (no need to use a clutch to shift and no breakage like with a crash box) they outlawed it, even though the rule book said "any gear set". They had earlier outlawed 4 speeds in a 3 speed case, didn't matter what the rule book said. :mad:
-------------------
Jon N.

Thanks for the input Jon.

So, we're back to apples and oranges when we compare current stick versus automatic records. That is, the automatics can take advantage of the latest technology but the sticks can't.

Why do suppose that is? smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Maybe because they know that the slushboxes can't keep up with the sticks? graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

something wrong here...... I didn't post twice.

I'm pretty sure that Clutchless transmissions are allowed in Super Stock. I believe they use mainly Jerichos

There you have it, they can use the latest greatest technology just like the automatic cars.