i have the 454 30over with 12:5to1 and brodix bb2x 119cc can i add the lead stuff, i dont know what its called to 93 octane for the street

You cannot legally buy any lead additives.

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Redrum (or Mike)
68 Corvette - 383 CI 427 HP
69 SS Chevelle being updated to Pro-Touring
97 Z-28

if i add the lead to 93 octane what will the octane be. and whats the best stuff to use

thanks james ward

I purchase lead additives from "Auto Zone" every week. (Not actual tetraethyl lead, but it works pretty good) It is available over the counter, depending on what state you live in. My use for lead is because a set of heads I have are 461X heads from 1969, which do not have hardened exhaust seats...yet. And to avoid burning the exhaust valves or seats, you need to run lead. When lead burns, it leaves deposits on your valves and valve seats, which protects them.
But now,I have found something better. There is a company out there that has available 100%real tetraethyl lead, which is EPA registered. Depending on the amount used per gallon, it can raise your octane rating from 2 - 16 points. Just 0.6 of an ounce to 1 gallon of gas will raise the octane 2 points. It's called "Lead Supreme-130" and is available over the internet at "Batterystuff.com". Hope this helps. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif


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Tony C.
65 Extreme Machine
350/350 4.10 Street

no any one with an air plane, if you do have them by aviation 100 low led that stuff has 4 times the amount of lead that reguler car gas had in it when it was 40 cents a gallon i no i use to own a see plane. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Tony, when you talk about boosting octane 2 points does that mean 93 becomes 93.2 or 95?
Are there any disadvantages to using this stuff? It almost sounds too good to be true.

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Mark
1970 SS454 LS6 (nom)
-------------------------
"Those who would sacrifice their freedom to achieve a measure of 'safety' deserve neither freedom nor safety."

<<when you talk about boosting octane 2 points does that mean 93 becomes 93.2 or 95?>>


Well Mark...this is the scoop...

0.6- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel……… 2.0 point octane increase
1.2- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel……… 3.5 point octane increase
1.8- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel……… 5.0 point octane increase
2.4- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel……… 6.5 point octane increase
3.0- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel……… 8.0 point octane increase
6.0- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel…… 11.0 point octane increase
18- Ounces LS-130 to 1 gallon/fuel…… 16.0 point octane increase

Of course you need to temper all use with the right judgement. The "well...a little is good...so a whole bunch would be better" does not always apply. The use of high octane fuels is to allow higher compression engines to burn all of the the fuel in the cylinder, and not leave unburned deposits inside the chamber to detonate at an incorrect time in the stroke cycles. This is where the "knock" comes from. Unburned deposits ingiting at the wrong time. With the correct octane fuel, the burn is more complete and efficient.
As far as what happens when you use too high an octane, well lets just say your wallet gets lightened considerably. As with any car, if you find the correct octane rating, where the car does not "knock" or "ping" that should be enough. Once you start getting up in the higher compression rating zones, the demand increases with each rise in compression. Also, too high an advance can also be a culprit for detonation.
So, if your car doesnt really "knock" or "ping" under extreme conditions, you are wasting money.
If your car does detonate with premium pump gas, raise the octane slightly until it doesnt. Find your key spot, and then stick with it. This will prove efficient and cost efficient.


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Tony C.
65 Extreme Machine
350/350 4.10 Street

James,
The Brodix heads have VERY hard valve seats in them and do not require a leaded fuel to protect them. However, since you are at 12.5 to one compression, you will need something with a higher octane than is available on the street. Any of the good octane boosters should do the trick. I would stay away from actual "lead" as it is very toxic. I really do not think you can buy it anywhere at this time. If you have a racing fuel supplier near you, another alternative would be to buy some VP or Cam2 and mix with the unleaded high test. Aviation fuel has some very unusual properties designed to prevent carb icing, and high altitude vaporization. It can actually hurt performance so I do not know if I would mess with it either.
Just my opinions,

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Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
Team Chevelle #100

The turbo buick guys have some recipes for home brew octane boosters using xylene & or toulene.

James, the only thing thats going to increase your Octane is Octane ie Leaded Gas, additives don't do it(104+, NOS, Lead in a Bottle etc) they won't raise it high enough to do you any good maybe a half a point, (for ex 93.5). If your going to run that much compression you need aleast 110 octane minimum 104 octane of Leaded racing gas. Of course you can use Xylene and or Tolulene to get the Octance in a sense up there to reduce detonation. You can get buy the 5 gal container at any Industrial supply or Paint store I even think Home Depot sells the stuff, it's alot cheaper than dropping 5.25 a gal for 116 Turbo Blue http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Come on over to www.TurboBuick.com (http://www.TurboBuick.com) put in the search engine "Octane" or "Xylene" there's a ton of info on it such as mixing ratios, Octane requirements, etc...
here the recipe I use for my Buick:
1 gallon of xylene for every 3 gallons of 93 octane unleaded plus a couple of ounces of a top cylinder lubricant such as Marvel Mystery Oil. The final mix is right around 99 octane this is good for 0 knock @ 22lbs of boost.

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64 468 Blk Elky rwhp 458
87 GN rwhp 431@24lbs
68 BBlk RS/SS Blk in progess
65 stk orig 86k 289 Stang rwhp ....pleeazzz:D
Power through Chemistry makes it happen...I just like helping it along every now and then

Tony, gradually bumping up the octane rating is what I'm trying since the closet source of race fuel that I can find is about an hour away. Right now, a tankful of 93 with 2 bottles of the black bottle 104+ will still ping under certain conditions. Maybe I'll give this stuff a try since it seems to be the real thing. I'd rather not mess with stuff that might be detrimental to the fuel system over time.

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Mark
1970 SS454 LS6 (nom)
-------------------------
"Those who would sacrifice their freedom to achieve a measure of 'safety' deserve neither freedom nor safety."

mark,
there is a gas station in new bedford that was selling race fuel right from the pump. it's on tarklin hill road right before you enter acushnet, used to be a sunoco then changed to an independent. a few months ago I thought i saw the peice at about $4.75 a gallon. you might want to check before you go though.

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1969 SS 396

Mark, thats the right way to do it. Find the optimum octane rating for the compression you are running. Also, make sure your timing is not excessive.
It is so easy to go overboard and not actually think before we leap. We spend so much of our hard earned money to build our dream cars. Lets keep some of the rest of our money for other things we really need.

The heads you have are tough like BillK stated. Your main concern is your compression. 12.5 is going to demand higher octane. But why overdo it? Find your engines optimum rating and go with it. Like everthing else in this hobby, it's all in what actually happens on the pavement in our own town, not the pages of a magazine.

Let me know how you make out.



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Tony C.
65 Extreme Machine
350/350 4.10 Street

Hey Rat, thanks for the tip. There used to be a station right in Taunton that sold CAM2 at the pump. Station is still there but no race juice.
Tony, I ordered a gallon of the Lead Supreme 130. Should have it in about a week. In the spring (when the roads aren't coated in crud) the experimentation begins. I'll keep ya posted.
Either of you boys humpin it out to West Springfield this weekend?

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Mark
1970 SS454 LS6 (nom)
-------------------------
"Those who would sacrifice their freedom to achieve a measure of 'safety' deserve neither freedom nor safety."

Digging up an old post.....


But I recently bought my wife a '99 Grand Prix GTP (supercharged). I am interested in changing to a smaller pulley to gain hp/tq. Since 91 octane is the best that 99.99% of California gas pumps carry, I am also interested in maybe using an octane booster to limit KR (knock retard).

I found this site:

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

Would Toulene and/or Xylene harm my CAT and/or O2 sensors?

Originally posted by bluerebl:
Digging up an old post.....


But I recently bought my wife a '99 Grand Prix GTP (supercharged). I am interested in changing to a smaller pulley to gain hp/tq. Since 91 octane is the best that 99.99% of California gas pumps carry, I am also interested in maybe using an octane booster to limit KR (knock retard).

I found this site:

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

Would Toulene and/or Xylene harm my CAT and/or O2 sensors? No, I've used it for quite a while in my Lightning and other EFI cars. Works great.

Jody

Here is a recipe for octane boost, it works pretty well.

To make your own octane booster, it is easiest to make up a large batch, and then bottle it up in "dosage-size" uses.
Below is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products. To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):
100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

I got this off the net somewhere a few years back and have posted it on a few sites.

Originally posted by camcojb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bluerebl:
Would Toulene and/or Xylene harm my CAT and/or O2 sensors? No, I've used it for quite a while in my Lightning and other EFI cars. Works great.

Jody </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Jody, how offen do you run it in your Lighting?

What is the mix/combo (Toulene and/or Xylene) that you are using? Being that my GTP and your Lighting have the same basic Eaton blower, I am sure you have changed a pulley, etc.

Any idea how much octane your mix ends up being with the pump gas already added?

I would think those sensors and the CAT will handle pretty good amounts of armoatics. I would not fret about up a 10% cut of the 114 octane Toluene.

I read something recently... ah here ....

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

Originally posted by bluerebl:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by camcojb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bluerebl:
Would Toulene and/or Xylene harm my CAT and/or O2 sensors? No, I've used it for quite a while in my Lightning and other EFI cars. Works great.

Jody </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Jody, how offen do you run it in your Lighting?

What is the mix/combo (Toulene and/or Xylene) that you are using? Being that my GTP and your Lighting have the same basic Eaton blower, I am sure you have changed a pulley, etc.

Any idea how much octane your mix ends up being with the pump gas already added? </font>[/QUOTE]Cable,

I was using up to 5 gallons of Xylene with 20 gallons of 91. That figures to about 96 octane. You may not need that high, or you may be able to start with better gas to begin with. We can only get 91 here. I now use alcohol injection and no Xylene, but I used it for about a year with no problems.

Xylene is 117 octane and Toluene is 114 octane. Just take how much regular gas (in gallons) you have times the octane rating and then add in the gallons of Xylene/Toluene times gallons and divide by total gallons to get new octane rating. For example 15 gallons of 91 = 1365 (15 X 91). Then say you added 3 gallons of Xylene for 351 (3 X 117); add the 351 and the 1365 and get 1716. Divide that number by total gallons (in this case 18) and the octane would be 95.33. You'll have to plug in your own numbers.

You are correct, I started with more boost, then a ported Eaton, now have a KB screw blower! It never ends!


Jody

Do you add any Marvel Mystery oil or ATF as a gas lube? Some people have recommended doing so.


Also, after mixing the gas and Xylene/Toluene, does it stay mixed?

I ask because I am seriously considering getting a clean 55 drum and mixing my own 100 octane gas. This way I could just add it to the car as needed for drag racing trips.

What would you consider to be the max Xylene/Toluene ratio with gas I could run before it would hurt the sensors?

I forgot to mention that I have also been considering one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42604&item=7909801669&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Here's the real stuff mentioned earlier..

Kemco Lead supreme 130 real lead gas treatment.

It raises octane in numbers not points b/c it is real Tetra Ethyl Lead!!!

Handle with care b/c TEL is real poisonous!!!

It can be absorbed through the skin if not mistaken..

Do a web search to find where you can buy it..

pdq67

Back again, I would mix the home brew octane booster like this If i wanted to use it:

A gallon of Toluene,
A quart of good quality Diesel Fuel, and
A pint of ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil.

pdq67

Originally posted by pdq67:
Here's the real stuff mentioned earlier..

Kemco Lead supreme 130 real lead gas treatment.

It raises octane in numbers not points b/c it is real Tetra Ethyl Lead!!!

Handle with care b/c TEL is real poisonous!!!

It can be absorbed through the skin if not mistaken..

Do a web search to find where you can buy it..

pdq67 I have a hard time believing this stuff can make such a difference with so little mixed in. Just over 1/2 ounce in 128 ounces of gas will raise it two full points? I called the guy a few months back when this came up on another board. He couldn't supply any info to back up the claims. Not saying it doesn't help, but very skeptical it's going to get you that kind of an octane increase. Plus everything I have uses O2 sensors so it's not going to work for me.


Jody