I have a roller cam that I am installing in my 1970 Monte Carlo. I purchased it new from Howard's and I am finally ready to install it into a motor(it's been in a box for a couple of years). Anyway, I am looking to purchase roller lifters and neither Jeg's nor Summit give a good description of which lifters can be used in a retro application. Which blocks use vertical bars? Which use horizontal bars? It appears that some blocks that came stock with a roller cam can also use lifters with bars on them. I know I need the ones with the bars, but how do you tell which are used for which?

Also, does anyone have a good source for inexpensive retro roller lifters? I know that Morel makes them for several companies and heard that you could get a good deal just getting the Morel brand.

Finally, I've also heard that you can use solid rollers on a hydaulic cam or vice versa? Would it be a bad idea to do this?

Thanks in advance.

you can use either vertical or horizontal bar lifters. the only real difference is that the horizontal bar lifters have a tiny spring in them and lifts the lifter off the lobe when you take off the rocker arm- which, i think, allows you to do a cam swap without taking off the intake.
i believe you can use solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam, but the lash will be kind of funky.

Just call Howard's Cams, and go with whatever their suggestion might be. I bought my original solid roller cam from them 4 or 5 years ago, and Im still using the same roller lifters that I got from them at that time.

I found mine on e-bay (store) new in box for about $100 less than Summit or Jegs.
Lunati horizontal (pop ups).

So Doug, Any problems with the pop-ups? Thinking about using them also.

1st off, no expert here at all!!

If it is a solid roller, then make sure that it is a billet cam and not onna the cast-core jobbers UNLESS it is a mild one!! Read, can be ran w/ low valve spring pressures!!!

Same goes for using solid rollers on a hy-roller cam, only if it is a billet core cam, imho!! And even then, you are looking at some really tight lashes that you will have to watch!!

And then also make sure that it has a cast-iron dizzy gear on it so that you can use a stock dizzy gear or else you get into the hassle of using shorter lived bronze dizzy gears or the new super-duper plastic jobber that cost's twice as much and last's twice as long as the bronze one's sorta deal..

Back to solid roller lifters, buy the best out there for more peace of mind like Isky needleless and the Crower pressurized oilled hippos or whatever they are....

The guys here know and won't steer you wrong..

I flat won't run a solid roller cam b/c of the fear of wondering when a lifter will let go and screw everything up!!

that's why I bugged UDHarold for a long time to create for me a CC 288AR solid street roller solid lifter copy AND he did!!

It's a solid cam spec'd at;

278/249, 110/106, .618" lift and need's .018" lash on both sides!!

Sucker should be a real thumper in an about 9.8 to 1 CR'd, 496 street engine like mine!!!!!!!!!!!

pdq67

In my opinion if you are going to run a solid roller on the street this is a really bad place to cut corners or buy anything but top quality parts.

There really is a reason that the better lifters cost more ;)
I run nothing in anything I build except Isky Red Zones or the new Red Zone with the EZ Roll option which has no needles.
But I would also have no problem running Crowers with the HPPO or Morels, both are excellent
None of these are cheap lifters :D

Let me ask, Mike, how is a solid roller set up different (more demanding) than a hydraulic roller set up, if the general specifications (lift, intensity, etc) between the two cams is more or less equal?

I guess I'm equating it to the difference between solid and hydraulic flat tappet cams. Seems to me that, given the same specifications (more or less), that the solid roller would be a bit easier on parts - and possibly require slightly lighter springs, because the solid lifter is lighter.

Can you help me get my brain around this?

Thanks,

Dan

Let me ask, Mike, how is a solid roller set up different (more demanding) than a hydraulic roller set up, if the general specifications (lift, intensity, etc) between the two cams is more or less equal?

I guess I'm equating it to the difference between solid and hydraulic flat tappet cams. Seems to me that, given the same specifications (more or less), that the solid roller would be a bit easier on parts - and possibly require slightly lighter springs, because the solid lifter is lighter.

Can you help me get my brain around this?

Thanks,

Dan

Dan, Im going to let Mike or someone with more knowledge of the intricate stuff answer this question, but regarding the last part of your post, solids actually require MORE spring pressure than hyd. rollers. I know it has to do with controlling the valves, and Im pretty sure it's because they're capable of much higher RPM's. My springs are (give or take) 200# on the seat, and about 580# open. I have never run a hyd. roller, but Im quite sure the pressures are much lower for an equivalent cam. Let's hear what the experts say. John

I understand what you are saying John, but that's if one is using a solid that is more agressive than a hydraulic.

If you have two cams, one designed for a solid lifter, the other for a hydraulic, but the general specifications are the same for each cam, I can't see how the solid set up would be more maintanence intensive, or require more spring, than the hydraulic. Indeed, seems to me - in this scenario, the solid might even require a little less spring since the lifters are (considerably?) lighter.

I have run solid rollers on the street with little success. I was using Comp Cams street roller 254deg @.050 .661 lift w/108 lsa on 496 inch bb. I used the "recommended" lifters from Comp as well as their springs and had catastrophic lifter failure after only 1500 miles. After going through the engine again and installing another cam and lifters I had failure again after another 1000 miles. The needles in one of the lifters failed and one more time put metal in the motor. I decided then that it was time to go back to a solid flat tappet. I lost some driveability as in the quest to compensate for the power difference the cam profile must be changed. The car is just as fast as with the roller but vaccum is much lower. I have heard that some are ok with solids on the street but here in california we spend more time idling than driving and idling will kill a solid roller lifter. There are as mentioned in previous threads new lifters out there which may or may not survive in heavy traffic. We will see. I plan to use the new Isky lifter in the near future as they stand behind what they sell when they know you did things the correct way.

I have run solid rollers on the street with little success. I was using Comp Cams street roller 254deg @.050 .661 lift w/108 lsa on 496 inch bb. I used the "recommended" lifters from Comp as well as their springs and had catastrophic lifter failure after only 1500 miles. After going through the engine again and installing another cam and lifters I had failure again after another 1000 miles. The needles in one of the lifters failed and one more time put metal in the motor. I decided then that it was time to go back to a solid flat tappet. I lost some driveability as in the quest to compensate for the power difference the cam profile must be changed. The car is just as fast as with the roller but vaccum is much lower. I have heard that some are ok with solids on the street but here in california we spend more time idling than driving and idling will kill a solid roller lifter. There are as mentioned in previous threads new lifters out there which may or may not survive in heavy traffic. We will see. I plan to use the new Isky lifter in the near future as they stand behind what they sell when they know you did things the correct way.
=
Hi Dan,
What cam?
Which lifters?
What spring?
How long ago was this?
The newer Comp lifters appear to be much better as the do have true needle oiling & a revised axle for another problem they say they did not have,,,,:(
But my preference is the Isky Red Zone
Others would be Crower with the HPPO & Morel in that order.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is not running enough spring on a solid roller
And running solid roller lifters that are a "deal"
If you had one of Comps "street rollers" it was on a cast core.
If you put much spring on a cast core it will die
This is the reason Comp gives you such wimpy spring recommendations for these.
If you have the same lobes ground on a billet the spring recommendations magically seem to go up,,,, at least from the real techs
My question is what changed? Same lobe, same intensity,,,
How come now I need more spring :sad:

BTW, if you are serious about Isky lifters you might email me,,
I can probably save you a buck or two on them ;)


ss396,
If you have a lobe the same as a hyd roller then you don't need as much spring to control it
But why not just get a hyd roller?
You should gain RPM with the solid roller lifter on either a hyd or a mild solid "street roller" in most cases but that is about it.
Also, you might check the latest recommendations for springs with hyd rollers & quality lifters like Morel
It has gone up a bit if you are getting into the more aggressive lobes.
Gone up by quite a bit too,,, ;)

Was really just kind of curious Mike. Everything I've read here seems to indicate that running a solid roller on the street equals high maintanence and early death, so users otp for a hydraulic roller instead. I guess I don't understand why a SR, with nearly the same specs as a HR, would have a shorter life or be more maintanence intensive, than it's HR counterpart.

Dan

While it is correct that the first cam was with the cast core it was not the cam that failed, it was the endurex lifter. Several of the axle's mysteriously worked their way out of the lifters during operation, one of which caught on the underside of the lifter bore and damaged the block pretty well. I do not remember the spring part number, it may or may not have been the #924 but I never experienced any valve float with this cam. It did perform very well until it died. The next cam was on the billet core and I used a different set of lifters, one of which failed after 1000 miles of use. I did change the springs to a substancially stiffer spring and the failure still occurred. I already have the Isky lifters with the bushing and plan to use them in the near future and thanks for your offer on the price break. A hydraulic roller is a horse of another color and may work for some but in my opinion gives up too much in the way of power, primarily due to weight issues. I'm happy with the Isky flat tappet in my present combo and valve adjustment is not the great "boogie man" that some seem to suggest. Like I mentioned before, some peoplple claim no problems with solid rollers on the street but that hasn't been my experience. Dan

So Doug, Any problems with the pop-ups? Thinking about using them also.

No problem so far and with a few 7K bursts down the 1/4 she's doing fine. I also am running a stud girdle.

The pop-ups actually saved me a tow. I broke a roller rocker :sad: so I pulled the rockers on that cylinder along with the pushrods and babied her home...The lifters stayed in their bore :D ... no problems. Lucky ?

I have been using the Comp Hydra roller with retro roller lifter for some 10k miles. The roller lifters are taller. The XR282Hr cam I was using was an "austratempered" core as Comp called it. Basically cast. I had no issue until about 500 miles from new. I used the stock fuel pump and stock push rod as recommended by Comp tech Sam Culp even though I thought I may need the brass tipped. Short story, I lost my fuel pump lobe .
I just pulled motor for inspection, another problem, the opening ramp was beginning to show a roller impression as well as the beginning of a material flake off. Comp says the impressions that barely catch your finger nail is normal on this cam. The lobes here are more agressive than std hyd flat tappet, prolly close to solid roller ramps. I used 1.530 springs with about 135# closed seat psi.
So cam is gone, 853 roller lifters are still good. I just contacted UD Harold and he is cooking up a replacement Billet with the "everwear dist gear".
BTW, Has anyone heard from Harold? I have been following up on contact with him and get no response. I know he is busy.
So to help answer the orginal question, you can either use the retro roller in earlier block or if you are lucky, find a late model roller block and use the GM rollers on a cam for this set up as it requires the wear plate where the early retro roller series, need some type of cam button. I use the Cloyes two peice cover button kit. Hope this helps.

What I am wanting to know is, do some of the roller lifters that go in a roller block also have the connecting bars on them? On a side now, if so many people have problems with a certain cam company, why do they still get so much business?