If an engine is in good shape, how much more cylinder pressure would you get with the total seal or one like it compared to a stock replacement? I've heard one person say he had to buy a better starter after going to the total seal race ring but he had no numbers.

Maybe he had to buy a new starter cause of extra ring drag? LOL! ;)

IF YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE TOTAL SEAL RINGS THAT USE THE SECOND RING AS THE GAPLESS ONES STAY AWAY FROM THEM,YOU DON'T NEED PRESSURE BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND RING IT CAUSES THE THE TOP RING NOT TO SEAL,THEY ONLY WORK GOOD ON A LEAK DOWN TEST.A GOOD SET OF FILE FIT RINGS WILL WORK FINE.

Carl might be right - I have used total seal twice and had very poor results both times.

I've never use total seal rings, so take this for what it is worth. I would not use them because while they will seal the chamber better when the engine is cold I doubt they make much if any difference when the engine is warm. Properly gapped rings will close to an almost perfect seal when warm. The loss through the gap is virtually non-existant.

I've heard the gapless second rings are a waste, but the gapless top can make a few more HP. There was a dyno test in HRM or PHR mag a few months ago that seemed to back this up. There is still some pretty serious debate on the subject and little (if any) back-to-back testing has been done. My personal take is that they may be good for mild-medium street-strip combos. I don't think I would put N2O, a blower, or serious compression (like 12:1 or more) to them though.

One down side is that I've heard the gaps in the two piece ring can line up with the Total seals (becomes like a normal one-piece ring). Heard Childs and Albert was better, but that's just hear-say.

PS. the mag article I was referring to was done by Visard. If I recall the gapless made roughly 7 HP more than than a standard gapped ring.

It ain't "hearsay" :D
The Childs & Albert ring is a different design. It is also designed as an oil control ring like it should be.
The second ring is not a compression ring. The total Seal works quite well when you are impressing your customer with a leak down test though ;)
After that I feel any benefits are a bit "overrated" at best. I have taken apart more than a few engines with Total Seals in them & usually half the gaps are lined up so it is no longer a "total seal"
I have also tested the rings against a standard ring pack & found no gains in the same engine. It was a 2bbl late model 12.5 compression deal so it was not a hi rpm engine. About 7000 with peak power at about 65-6700.
I do like the Childs & Albert design for alcohol engines as it keeps the oil dulition down.
I have not tested the Childs & Albert against standard rings yet but I have seen some independent tests that show a modest gain that were not controled by the manufacturer or advertising concerns.
As for the part about blowing the top ring seal this can be a problem in higer RPM engines but for a 6000 or so RPM setup with standard tension rings I don't feel it is really an issue.
The OEM's & most perfermance guys are using a slightly larger second gap now to keep this pressure buildup between rings in check but you have to remember that the OEM's are also using norrower & lighter tension rings than in the past as are a lot of performance applications.
We use a lot of .043 top & second rings & have found the best results are with radial gas ports to keep the top ring sealed.

Thanks for the info.

A friend has been running them in his 565. The thing started getting sick so he pulled it down every second ring was shattered from flutter. The top rings were in pretty good shape but apparently they don't work on the 4.560 bores.

I tried them on four different engines, N/A and blown. Every one used oil. This was their design with the second ring gapless. I've since used C&A gapless and Speed Pro Plasma Moly's without issues.

Jody

Hey guys,

Been awhile since I've been here, but I wanted to add my .02 on this. I'm running a set of Total Seals in a heavily modified 235 inline 6 chevy. Runs great, but damn thing smokes at idle and pulling away from stoplights. Machinist says it may be increased vacuum pulling oil past guides, but I'm not so sure.

Basically the Total Seals show problems on small bore, low compression motors also. I won't use 'em in my future projects.

chip