ive researched this for hours and im close to a decision, but id like a few more opinions. most people that respond have multiple guns. ive never heard anyone dislike the iwata for clear, but most use a sata for base as well. Who only uses one gun, and which do you prefer. Im going to do a two tone silver black bc/cc. ive heard that the iwata needs a new cap for metallic, but for $316 from SPI plus the tip and still under 400, it doesnt seem like a bad route. for those that use the iwata, 1.4 or 1.3 for both clear and base? im leaning towards the 1.4, but ive heard that metallic likes a smaller orfice.

thanks, Tim

I know I am going to hear about this one. I have used a few different guns. Primer is what really messes up guns. Don't run primer through an expensive gun. In the end I had the best results with a $10.00 on sale HF gun. I have used more expensive guns and the HF gun did a better job. They sell them with different size tips. Use a brand new gun when you get ready to paint. For the price you just toss them when they start going south.

Did you ever notice that no one has invented a gun that prevents them from color sanding the car on those TV shows?

i think i may have misled you. im going (subject to change as always) to get a sharpe razor for primer and G2. ive got some hf guns that i shoot wood lacquer with and they are decent, but they waste WAY too much material. im just going to fork out the 100 bucks for a better primer gun.

this gun will be for both base and clear. a lot of guys use one gun for each.

thanks, tim

Syphon feed guns waste material, the gravity feed guns don't waste as much material. I have used the HF $10.00 gravity feed gun to paint BC/CC and I am telling you, it laid the metalic paint down perfect. I used the gun with the 1.5 tip, they make them with a 1.4 tip also. You can run primer through them but you need to reduce it. I would have never believed it until I tried it. I also found out they use the same gun as the HF gun and put different brand names on it, the parts are interchangeable. Some places charge over $100.00 for the same gun with a different name on it. I'm not saying it's the same as a SATA. I wait until the HF guns go on sale and buy a few of them at a time, they have never let me down yet. They don't last forever but for the price it does not matter. You use them a few times and toss them. A gallon of lacquer thinner cost more than the gun.

I personally like the Sata gun for base and clear. If you get the pressures right you dont need to sand and buff unless you are just extremely picky, The last thing I painted was a Harley that was silver with blue pearl and it turned out great. I usually dont turn the pressure up as high as they recommend. I didnt have any orange peel or runs. I am using a Satajet 90 that is not an HVLP. I love it!

I have never used a SATA so I can't comment on that. I do know they are expensive and it would probably take a lot of paint jobs to pay for it. A motorcylce gas tank is a lot smaller than a car. I know a few body shop owners and if you go to where they keep the guns, you will see a bunch of used guns in the scrap heap, lots of different brands. They will all tell you they have a favorite gun. I know someone who only uses a syphon feed gun because they hate HVLP guns. I ended up using the HF gun because I had another brand gun that just would not spray the clear on right.

Sata is made in Germany. A lot of the other guns are made in China. even the old American name brands. They are real good at disquising the guns now. I had a Sharp that was made in Taiwan, they had it hidden on the back side of the trigger.

I have painted everyday for the past 20 years in a production body shop(just because it is a production shop I'm not a hack) and I like sata.They are built well,have a nice balance and will stand up to the day in and day out abuse of a body shop.I have not tried an Iwata ,we have no dealer around here.I have heard good things about iwata and the lph 400 hvlp is probably great for someone painting in their garage,a little slow but gives you lots of control and low overspray.The thing that bugs me about iwata is you have to have 3 different tips for one gun(they just come out with another one)So about $400 bucks for an iwata,then $75 per cap,thats $550.On the other hand I can buy a sata rp for around $500 and spray basecoat candies and clear with the same cap,its a no brainer for me sata wins!! I like the sata jet 90 or the sata rp with a 1.3,it puts it on real smooth,good for base or clear.I spray in a down draft booth so you need to look at your ventilation,a gun with low over spray might be what you need.

My perosnal picks are devilbiss. Here is why. I had a sata RP digital, very expensive gun upwards of $650. I also had an iwata, very good gun also. My favorite is devilbiss plus. I got a GTI with 3 tips 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 for $299 and also purchased a plus gun which a hybrid fro same money with same features. Let me tell you they spray same if not better than the more expensive SATA RP. I use the plus gun more which is comparable to the SATA RP (which means reduced pressure) It lays clear like magic no kidding. HVLP guns have too much peel for me and the peel is very large droplets not tiny ones. If purchasing SATA get the RP. Many people use RP including MIKE LAVALLEE. The RP use a little higher pressure so it busts the paint up much better. A good paint prep, high solid clear and a hybrid gun will yield a superslick job that many times dont need buffed.

That is a good point 1 bad 69 +70 camaro,the devilbiss plus is the best deal on the planet for a spray gun.I sprayed with a gti for 3 years but it is painfully slow compared to an rp gun.I also have a plus gun and it shoots base better than the gti.It is a very good gun for the money but the sata is made better IMO.You can save money by not getting a digital rp,and as far as comparing a devilbiss plus to the new sata 3000 there is no comparison imo.You might want to check out the new CVI by devilbiss,it is a compliant or hvlp gun just by changing the air cap.I demoed one for a few weeks and found it to be a nice gun.Just my 2 cents from my experience spraying everyday.

I just bought an Iwata and this is what I have found so far: The Iwata has done a fabulous job of laying down clear and solid colors. I tried to spray a base coat silver metallic with the Iwata and I could not make it spray without streaking. I switched back to my finish line Devibiss for the silver metallic and it sprayed great without streaking. Then I used the Iwata for the clear and it came out great.

What I noticed was that the Iwata atomized the material way better than the cheaper devilbiss. You could actually see the paint come out in much bigger droplets from the devilbiss as compared to the Iwata. I suppose that is why the silver metallic was so streaky--the Iwata atomized it too good.

My experience with the Iwata is very limited since I just got it, so hopefully our group can expound on my input. I am using the stock needle and cap that comes with the Iwata so I'm sure different sizes would make a difference.

Just a little input from the field.

Mike

has anyone used the additional iwata cap for metallics? ive read this is the only way to go, but still not sure. thanks, Tim

I just bought an Iwata and this is what I have found so far: The Iwata has done a fabulous job of laying down clear and solid colors. I tried to spray a base coat silver metallic with the Iwata and I could not make it spray without streaking. I switched back to my finish line Devibiss for the silver metallic and it sprayed great without streaking. Then I used the Iwata for the clear and it came out great.

What I noticed was that the Iwata atomized the material way better than the cheaper devilbiss. You could actually see the paint come out in much bigger droplets from the devilbiss as compared to the Iwata. I suppose that is why the silver metallic was so streaky--the Iwata atomized it too good.

My experience with the Iwata is very limited since I just got it, so hopefully our group can expound on my input. I am using the stock needle and cap that comes with the Iwata so I'm sure different sizes would make a difference.

Just a little input from the field.

MikeThe GTI makes big droplets but the plus sprays very fine. Iwata is a great gun just the plus stuck on me.

That is a good point 1 bad 69 +70 camaro,the devilbiss plus is the best deal on the planet for a spray gun.I sprayed with a gti for 3 years but it is painfully slow compared to an rp gun.I also have a plus gun and it shoots base better than the gti.It is a very good gun for the money but the sata is made better IMO.You can save money by not getting a digital rp,and as far as comparing a devilbiss plus to the new sata 3000 there is no comparison imo.You might want to check out the new CVI by devilbiss,it is a compliant or hvlp gun just by changing the air cap.I demoed one for a few weeks and found it to be a nice gun.Just my 2 cents from my experience spraying everyday.Well like i said I had a sata2000 which sprayed like my gti millineum and the RP sprayed like my plus. To each his own and i will probably get flamed for this but i sprayed the 3000 and was not that impressed. I liked the 2000 and RP better. My favorite second to the plus is the RP. I am not a big fan of HVLP and i think the iwata line dont offer a compliant gun i think its lvlp. Iwata even at high price is a better deal than sata. Hell i like all 3 sata devilbiss and iwata. Compliant is the way to go IMHO.

And another thing dont get just one gun. You really need 2 especially if spraying metallic. Get a cheap devilbiss finishline or sharpe for base and IWATA or sata for clear. If you get a clear only gun get a 1.2 or 1.3 head so the paint will bust better.

Couldnt help but there are a couple sellers on ebay selling sata 3000 for around $400 brand new.

I agree with you that hvlp sucks,I don't like it at all.Iwata makes a compliant gun I think it is the w-400lor something??Its just what a guy gets used to spraying with, I have a plus that I use regularly.What fluid tip are you using and what materials are you spraying?

not to highjack thread,, well.. maybe alittle

what guns are good for a guy ,in a garage(home) that might paint one or two cars
I plan on use'n two guns one for primer one for base/clear
but don't plan on spending 600+ for a finish gun.. (a little much for 2 paint jobs)
dad was a bodyman for years,but is only now doing side work, he has a very costly finish gun,but willnot let it out of his sight..lol
and all his other guns are the old "paint wasters"
he's been out of the day to ay bodyshop for 5 years ,so most of the guns he talked about are "superseeded" ...
don't mind paying 600.00 to get both, but not for one gun...
and have seen what primer does to a finish gun....(why you think,daddo,won't let the one he has out of his sight ;) ..)

thanks

www.smartshoppersinc.com has good prices on guns. They had better prices than I could buy locally. I have bought paint and primer from them also.

Im kinda in the same boat. im buying these guns for one paint job. sure there may be more in the future, but $500 bucks (primer gun, base clear gun) is still a lot right now. Which gun will spray both metallics and clear good? There has to be one gun that can still do this better than two cheap ones. also, i would think that the base is more important to lay flat than the clear. the clear can be sanded, the base cannot. now i know from wood wooking that spraying on clear can hide lots of imperfections in the base, but it doesnt hide them all. but again, im asking because i dont know. thanks again for all the replies, Tim

Im kinda in the same boat. im buying these guns for one paint job. sure there may be more in the future, but $500 bucks (primer gun, base clear gun) is still a lot right now. Which gun will spray both metallics and clear good? There has to be one gun that can still do this better than two cheap ones. also, i would think that the base is more important to lay flat than the clear. the clear can be sanded, the base cannot. now i know from wood wooking that spraying on clear can hide lots of imperfections in the base, but it doesnt hide them all. but again, im asking because i dont know. thanks again for all the replies, Tim
Boy are you mislead! First what color are you using? Second who says base cant be sanded? One gun can do it, i done this for years so dont worry about one gun. Clean the gun very well before moving to clear. Get the iwata or sata 3000 rp or a used sata 2000. OK on to base sanding. If you get a run in the base let it flash dry real good Sand with 600 and respray that area. To get a real good shaow quality job listen to me. I do it on a regular basis. It takes sometimes about an extra quart of sprayable base but results are worth it. The peel you get from clear is mostly due to the undercoat. I sand the primer with 600 wet. Mix my base and add 10% hardener in the first coat, this step is very important. Just use the same hardener you will be using for clear. Let that set for 24 hours and wetsand with 1000 grit. Now the last coat of base will be shot in a regular fashion just with a very slow reducer. The slow reducer lets the new base lay somewhat flat with the sanded base. Now i know i will get flamed from some for adhesion, but i have done several show cars that got involved in collisions and the paint did not flake. Now clear with a good clear. I prefer high solid clears that use a reducer because it lets the clear lay down. You are going to have some peel but these steps will give you a much slicker job that needs really no buffing provided you dont run or dry spray it.

I know some might cringe at my painting skills or methods but Rick Mahoney does this very method on his show cars. Check out the 70.5 trans am in september 2007 issue of high performance pontiac.

1bad69+70camaro - i had read from one of your earlier posts that i shouldnt use the same gun for metallics and clear. id really like to stay away from the metallics, but i want a grey or silver, and ive never seen one with out metallics. also, can metallics be sanded and recoated, or will it cause it to look uneven? i talked to a ppg rep at a show and he said that it was pointless to sand and reshoot. but like you said, your foundation will show in you final coat, so why not take the extra effort. i actually started a thread a few months ago on this exact topic.

thanks again, Tim

1bad69+70camaro - i had read from one of your earlier posts that i shouldnt use the same gun for metallics and clear. id really like to stay away from the metallics, but i want a grey or silver, and ive never seen one with out metallics. also, can metallics be sanded and recoated, or will it cause it to look uneven? i talked to a ppg rep at a show and he said that it was pointless to sand and reshoot. but like you said, your foundation will show in you final coat, so why not take the extra effort. i actually started a thread a few months ago on this exact topic.

thanks again, Tim
You need to get 2 guns but one gun will suffice, just clean it out real good. Yes metallics can be sanded and recoated i do it all the time. just dont sand the final coat as it will look blotchy. You can do the same with a 2k sealer. Instead of coating a sealer after a flash time let it dry and base next day after a 1000 grit wet sanding. I also have done this with no adhesion problems. If using silver or gray get a quart of black base which will make around 2 quarts of sprayable base. Mix it 1 part base .5 to 1 part reducer and 10% clear hardener. You dont really need the hardener but i use it as it slows the base down and adds a slight gloss to see better where you sand. Also ever see somebody sand and reclear and the sand scratches disappear? the hardener helps achieve this with base. Hit it with 1000 grit and 2 coats of base. like i said the end result will still have peeel but it will be drastically reduced. You can also sand with 1000 grit before last coat of base. just dont sand final coat. Its really no different than sanding and reclearing.

If I had to use just ONE gun for base and clear I would go with Sata 2000 RP with a 1.4 tip.
The 2000 RP is not HVLP but meets HVLP requirements for material transfer efficiency.

The 3000 series of Sata guns are great guns, got to play around with them but they also carry a higher price tag.
All depends on how much you want to spend, you can still get new 2000 RP on ebay for around 400.

If I had to use just ONE gun for base and clear I would go with Sata 2000 RP with a 1.4 tip.
The 2000 RP is not HVLP but meets HVLP requirements for material transfer efficiency.

The 3000 series of Sata guns are great guns, got to play around with them but they also carry a higher price tag.
All depends on how much you want to spend, you can still get new 2000 RP on ebay for around 400.
Eric there is somone on there selling a rp digital for $400.
I also agree with eric as you seen in my other reply the sata 2000 rp. You should really try the devilbiss plus though. I promise you will not be disappointed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sata-jet-3000-digital-1-3-hvlp_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63702QQihZ018QQite mZ280146300224QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SATA-JET-3000-HVLP-1-3-NOZZLE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43987QQihZ019QQi temZ290152216819QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
this gun cant be used that much because they just came out.

A sharpe platinum with a compliant head was a great gun also. I have one i can rent you for the base if interested. Same as auto zone give me a deposit and i will send gun. send gun back and i will refund deposit minus $25 for wear.

ive been looking into the satas for a long time, but i was just recently sold on the iwata. I guess ill keep looking for a new RP. whats the big difference btwn the 2000 and the 3000's?

Eric - do you not like the Iwata... i saw you just picked one up from Barry.

thanks, Tim

ive been looking into the satas for a long time, but i was just recently sold on the iwata. I guess ill keep looking for a new RP. whats the big difference btwn the 2000 and the 3000's?

Eric - do you not like the Iwata... i saw you just picked one up from Barry.

thanks, Tim

Since I walked away from doing collision repair back in march I have not had a chance to use the Iwata. Bought it because I heard great reviews from several very knowledgeable painters. I wish I had things to paint but I dont so it here it sits.

I suggested the RP because all my painting was done with SATAs, NR2000 and the 2000RP and several others. The RP is just a good gun.
Had a few sharpe guns and wont use another one if you paid me. Never used the GTI or GTI plus guns but hear good things from various forums

As for the 2000 and 3000 difference, I feel the 3000 breaks the paint better and has a higher efficiency rating.

Since I walked away from doing collision repair back in march I have not had a chance to use the Iwata. Bought it because I heard great reviews from several very knowledgeable painters. I wish I had things to paint but I dont so it here it sits.

I suggested the RP because all my painting was done with SATAs, NR2000 and the 2000RP and several others. The RP is just a good gun.
Had a few sharpe guns and wont use another one if you paid me. Never used the GTI or GTI plus guns but hear good things from various forums

As for the 2000 and 3000 difference, I feel the 3000 breaks the paint better and has a higher efficiency rating.
Eric i sprayed a 3000 hvlp and did not like it. never tried the new rp though. i love the nr2000 and 2000 rp though. my sharpe is a gun i made from platinum gun and compliant head and it does decent. I do rent the sharpe from time to time but would never buy another.

eric - your choice of the iwata was part of my decision to switch. thanks for the replies so far. like i said, ive never heard anyone say that either gun is bad, but ive heard that the iwata is EXCELLENT for clear. i guess the real hold back is the poor results that others have had with the metallics. plus id rather give my money to germany. thanks, tim

Kick up the pressure for metallics. might do a little better. JUST BUY IT! LOL. I had no clue devilbiss was made in china. I would have to see actual documented proof of this really.

Iwata has since addressed the issue with metallics and have a different air cap for metallics. I think the cap is like 75 bucks.
Some guys dont have a problem with it some do and get the metallic cap.
Mine will be nothing but a clear gun so I wont need to worry about it.
Ill continue to use my NR2000 HVLP for basecoat.

If you go on the SPI forum there are about 10plus top notch guys who use Iwatas on a daily basis. Ive never even sprayed anything through mine yet.

It all boils down basically to......nothing. Both sata and iwata are great guns you cant go wrong with either one.

I will go ahead to add my name to the list of people who feel the Iwata is great for spraying clear but not the best for metallic bases. The person above me mentions a new tip they have come out with that is supposed to solve this problem which would be great. The thing I love about the Iwata is its ease of a adjustment and the ability to have a very wide yet even fan if you wish. I have sprayed with Sata 2000 and 3000s as well as develbiss and sharpe. The sata's are in my opinion the best for base I prefer the 2000. The sharpe is a bit finicky and I feel the design lacks a bit to be desired compared to the others but can lay down a really nice clear if you get it right. Once again I still would prefer the sata for base. I purchased a devilbiss plus gun a couple years ago and had yet to use it until recently. I must say it sprayed very well and was easy to get it to spray to my liking. I have also sprayed with a Devilbiss GTI and I would choose the Plus gun over it any day. I got a great deal on the Devilbiss Plus a Primer gun and a mini touch up gun I believe just over $200 but that was with my auto collision student discount.

i ended up getting a great deal on a new sata 3000 rp digital from ebay. ill keep you posted on my results.

tim