My friend just got his new Bullet cam and one of the oil they recomended was Penzoil GTP.

http://www.pennzoil.com/products/motor_oil/racing_oil.html

This is available locally here. SWEATON what have you heard about this one.

Pennzoil's good oil.

This oil looks to be the good stuff from what it says about it but when i checked the data sheet on the pennzoil site it didnt state the ZDDP lvl's which is important so for now i wouldnt trust it to protect a flat tappet cam without that info.

The data sheet was from 8/06 but i would not trust any ZDDP data unless the test was done on oil mfg after the new gov regs were initiated on 1/2007 for less then or = .1% of zddp which isnt enough to protect a flat tappet perf cam.

The LN oil test report that was done eirlier this yr only had test data for the conventional pennzoil pass car 20w-50 which had far less then the .12-.14% zddp required to protect our flat tappet cams but unfortunately there was no test data for the penzzoil 25w-50 GT Racing oil .

11SChevelle,since you brought this oil to our attention maybe you take the bull by the horns and contact the eng's at pennzoil to ask them what the CURRENT lvl of ZDDP is in this oil and then report that back to us.

Scott

I couldnt wait so i went to the pennzoil site to look more for zddp lvl but it wasn't there for the 25w-50 racing oil.

Then when i went to send an email from the contact us tab in pennzoil site to ask for the zddp lvl in their racing gt 25w-50 oil it sent my question to the Shell oil site,HHMMM,did Shell buy out pennzoil?

Scott

I work for the Shell refinery in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada and Shell bought pennzoil as well as Quaker state a few years ago. Since then Shell canada was bought out by Royal Dutch Shell which also owns Shell Oil in the US.

Here is the responce (pasted below) i got from Pennzoil/now shell.

This looks like there is approx .1% (1000ppm) zinc & .1% (1000ppm)phosphorus in this oil which is not enough to protect our flat tappet cams and it also meets the new regs for .1% or less ZDDPwhich is no surprise to me.

I did respond to their reply to ask them if in fact this was the case & to also ensure i didnt misunderstand something along the way. I wanted to make sure they didn't mean there was .2 % (2000ppm) zinc & .2% (2000ppm) phorphorus which i doubt is the case but you never know.

From what i read in the LN oil test report you need a min of .12-.14% (1200-1400ppm) ZDDP to protect a stock to mild perf flat tappet cam with mild spring rates and then you need more ZDDP as spring rates increase as perf lvl /rpm inc.

It looks to me that even though some oils are advertised as being for racing only with added valvetrain protection & is not rec for street use /cat converters etc which makes you think it has elevated lvls of ZDDP it really doesnt post new gov regs as of 1/2007 for .1 % or less ZDDP. That goe's for this pennzoil racing gt 25w-50 and also the valvoline NSL racing 20w-50 that was tested in 3/2007 resulting in less then .1%.

Scott
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Here is reply i recieved from the Shell oil comp that now owns Pennzoil & Quakerstate oil too:

Dear Scott,

Thank you for your inquiry.

1. Shell Oil is the parent company of Pennzoil and Quaker State.

2. The Zinc/Phosphorous level of Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Motor Oil is approximately 2,000 parts per million(ppm).

Scott, Do you have a typo in your post? Required ZDDP is 1200 - 1400 ppm and this oil has 2000 ppm, why isn't it enough?

Just trying to understand this stuff.......... So, are you saying that the Fed Reg is a "total" of 1000 or less ppm for the combination of Zn and P? I would assume that its the combo (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) or ZDDP for short, since P is not found as a free element in nature. It looks like you asked about each element and he responded with the "compound ZDDP" levels. Two different things unless you know the makeup of the compound.

If the regulation of 1000ppm is for the "compound" then what he told you is that the "racing" oil does not meet the requirements for "street" use. It would be twice the standard. Unless the regulation is for the compound total of the two elements and is 2000ppm

No typo,i hope.(LOL!!!)

Note,this is the conversion factor i followed from the LN engineering/Porche motor comp oil test report :"1200-1400 ppm = (0.12-0.14%) Zn and P. 1000 ppm = (0.10%) Zn and P.

The LN/Porche oil tests are given in seprate zn & p #s and thay also state that the zn &P lvls should be .12%-.14%/1200pp-1400ppm each seperately which is what i have been going by & am questioning here with the responce from Shell/Pennzoil.

From the answer they gave me i think they meant zinc & phos combined/ZDDP = 2000ppm total which would mean there is approx 1000ppm zinc & 1000ppm phos which is not enough to properly protect a perf flat tappet cam with somewhat evelvated spring pressures.

But i did send another email to clarify the avg 2000ppm answer for zddp they gave me to ensure i understood it right beign combined that they didnt mean the Zn/P isnt 2000ppm each/seperately.

But what i think is going on here lines up with the new gove regs for .1%(1000ppm) or less ZDDP along with the fact that i had not seen any oil that tested anywhere close to 2000ppm for zinc and 2000ppm for phos before the ZDDP was reduced in the oils mfg'd & tested prior to the new 2007 regs taking affect to decrease it so i doubt it has .2%/2000ppm each for Zn/P. I would think that it would have to be marketed as NOT STREET LEGAL if it truely had 2x the ZDDP then most other oils have today but its not marketed as not street lagal.

Sorry for any confussion,hek i am starting to get confused with this stuff too and went back to the original LN/Porche test to ensure i was still on target .

But regardless of what i say the responce i get from the oil comp should clear it all up once in for all. I just want to ensure we have the right info/ZDDP #'s weather it be combined or seperate on any oil before we trust the protection of the flat tappet cams in our 4k-5k motors to their oil.

Scott

PHEW/FINALLY GOT THE ANSWER which is pasted below.

It looks like the the lvl of Zn & P in the pennzoil gt 25w50 is .2%/2000ppm each which is great for our motors.

Now for the issue of is the this 25w-50 oil too thick for some of our motors esp if they are freshly rblt with tight clearances,oh boy it never ends.

BuT pennzoil does advertise/state that oil as having good low temp flow capabilites for if you dont have enough time to warm the motor up before getting into it like when starting a race.

Scott,

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No, the zinc level is ~ 0.2 vol.%(2000ppm)and the phosphorous level is the same.
The level of ZDDP in all API "SM" motor oils is mandated to a maximum of 0.0840 (840 ppm). The Pennzoil Racing oil (API "SJ")has more than enough anti wear additives to protect your engine.

Best Regards,
Technical Service

Scott, You are doing a great job. Thanks for all of your persistance and research into this and other issues. I have learned a great deal from your posts on this site.

Like I said Pennzoil's good oil!

Seriously, thank you Mr. Wheaton for chasing down the real data. I actually had no idea RDS own Pennzoil. Here I thought it was still the good ol Pennsylvania Oil Company.

NP Guy's,we are all here to help each other in this great muscle car hobby and for us it's CHEVELLE'S.

I also wish Valvoline would give me the ZDDP lvl in their NSL 20w-50 racing oil currently mfg post 2007 but they gave me a BS responce a while back when i asked for it. They said the ZDDP is propriatary info that they cant give out,but all other oil mfg gave me the zddp lvl data when i ask for it.

Maybe i will try emailing valvoline again to ask for the ZDDP lvl in the valvoline nsl 20w50 racing oil currently being mfg today in hopes of getting a different person that will answer the question this time around so we can know for sure what the zddp lvl is.

scott

Scott, thanks for all your work.

well i just got off the phone with vavoline and the zinc level of the vr1 20-50 is 1300ppm and the phosphorous level is 1200ppm.on the synthetic racing oil not for street use the zinc level is 1400ppm and phosphorous is 1200ppm.and finally on the convention racing oil not for street use the zinc level is 1300ppm and phosphorous is 1200ppm.so it looks the penzoil racing oil is better for the flat tappet cams.


matt

:cool:

Thanks matt,we needed that info.

Scott

where can i buy the pennzoil.no stores by me locally do not care it.is there a place on line that i can get it from.thanks

matt

Thanks for getting the real story Scott

Pennzoil makes really good transmission fluid as well.

You wont generaslly see the oils that are NSL/not street leagl on the shelves in stores,you have to special order it or maybe get it from summitt/jeg's,etc.

This is because the higher lvl's of ZDDP ove .1% isnt allowed for street use anymore & they dont want the genreal public using the oil with higher zddp in it in their cars with cat converts & emmissions equip,etc.

scott