Hello fellow Chevelle fans ! I'm having issues with frame mounts , headers , and steering shafts , that is causing me to pull all the hair out of my head ! Can any suggest any ideas ? ....................................
Let me start out by giving you a quick run down of the car . I bought this car from the original owner in 1994 . It was an original 6 cyl , power glide car . After owning the car for 3 months , I swapped out the 6cyl for a 350 that I pulled from a 25,000 mile 1974 Chevelle . I used the 74 motor mounts , and changed the frame mounts over to v-8 mounts and also swapped the transmission out for a Muncie m-20 , as well as pulled the stock 10 bolt rear for a 12 bolt 4.56 posi . Everything was great . In 1998 I came across a 500+ hp LS7 454 that was still in the original crate , never opened . Needless to say I dropped it in quickly after I freshened it up with new rings , seals , gaskets , and bearings . When I dropped the engine into the car . I used the Moroso solid motor mounts and bolted it up to the v8 mounts that I already had in the car . I didnt realize at the time , that there was a difference between bb and sb mounts . I just thought I had to ' dimple ' up 2 of the left side Hooker Comp header tubes , to make clearence for the ( power )steering shaft , because it was normal for it to be a tight fit . But then I started to notice other 66 Chevelles with power steering and bb engines and same Hooker Comp headers , and they didnt have this problem , I started to question why . I found out that there was a difference between sb and bb frame mounts and I was using the wrong ones . In 2002 , I pulled the car apart and stripped it down to a bare frame and a gutted shell to do a frame off resto . Since then , I have gotton the car 70% back together . Changes this time around included big block frame mounts , and a turbo 400 trans , and a 1968 L78 396 with a BDS stage II 871 blower . I am using the same Hooker Comp headers that I had on the LS7 454 . But now , after getting the right frame mounts , I noticed that I have even LESS room for my steering shaft , and I dont even have power steering anymore ! I'm going to have to ' dimple ' up at least 3 , if not all 4 header tubes on the left side just to get the steering shaft in there . I still see many other 66 and 67 Chevelles with big blocks using the same headers and have plenty of room for the steering shaft ? Its driving me crazy ! I'm about ready to scrap this project and buy a FORD ! :sad:
Does anyone have any suggestions or know what may be the cause of this problem I seem to have been dealing with for 10 years ?
Check out the links below for photos of my Chevelle project !
Thanks so much !
Joe
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/HPIM0980.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z307/bb66chevelle/HPIM0980.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/HPIM0983.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z307/bb66chevelle/HPIM0983.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/HPIM0968.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z307/bb66chevelle/HPIM0968.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/HPIM0965.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z307/bb66chevelle/HPIM0965.jpg)
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/HPIM0969.jpg (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z307/bb66chevelle/HPIM0969.jpg)
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/misc/progress.gif

Joe do a search on frame mounts and start reading . you might have to raise your frame mounts up a little . I wouldnt dimple the headers:( . are you using the same heads?

like you wouldn't have that problem with a F%#D!

I have the same mounts on two different cars (both 72's), one has Summit brand headers, the other high dollar Headman ceramic coated, they both have little clearance with big blocks, but they clear. I would send you pics if you wanted them.

By the way, the Summit brand headers fit better than the high dollar set!

I put a 454 in my 67. Used the same mounts as were used on a small block. My Headman Elites fit fine. Headmans seem to fit. A friend put 3 different types of Hookers on Vette, including high dollar polished SS, and none of them fit worth a darn.

Hey Dave ( BLN ) ! Long time no see ! The Hooker Comp headers I have on the car now , are the actual ones I was using on the 454 . So they are already dimpled up on the first two tubes . I basicly dropped them in just to get the car running , and to check for clearance before I bought a new set and found out I'm still dealing with the same BS . If I have to rasie the frame mounts up off the frame to get the clearance ( with the 396 ) that I need to clear the steering shaft , we're talking a good inch ! That cant be right because I've never seen or heard of that ... ( at least not that much ) . But I will search online and see if I can find anything out . Thanks for the reply !

Hey Greg ! I knew the Ford comment would ruffle some feathers on a Chevelle site , lol . but you got me thinking .... maybe I should just take out that L78 and swap in a 428CJ ? If I would have known that I would have this much trouble with something so stupid , I could have gone balls out and built something really unique , lol ........ Just say NO ... lol ... Thanks for the reply !

Hey Dave ( davo1) ! Thanks for your input ! On all the small blocks I have ran in my lifetime , I have always used Headman headers . And come to think of it , I never had any issues with clearance around other moving parts like I'm having with these Hooker Comps . But I do recall the plugs and wire boots burning up with some of them tubes being bent on such drastic angles . I'm thinking about just getting the car running with these Hooker Comps , and fabricating my own custom set of headers that will work with the exact set up I am running , over the winter time . that'll give me plenty of time to get them fabricated up and sent out for the ceramic coating and ready for next spring ! But I would be interested in seeing the photos of the Headmans on them big blocks your running . maybe they will be just what I'm looking for . Thanks again for the reply !

Hey Herb ! thanks for the input ! I'm thinking your right about those Hooker headers . As I mentioned about to the other guys , these are the first and only Hooker headers I ever bought . And only the second big block I ever had . The only thing that remained the same between the two bb's are the headers . Maybe the answer is obvious .
What I dont understand is ........ Headers were probably one of the very first performance upgrades , invented way back in the day . I would guess that idea of making and adding headers to a car were probably thought up at the same time they figured out that round wheels worked better then square ones . So why is it that after all this time , certain companies can't make a header to fit for ***** , on one of the most popular muscle cares ever built ?

I just want to get this car out of my garage and back on the streets / strip where it belongs . It would be a great help if parts that are available for certain model cars , actually fit . or were at least close to fitting with little fabrication . People think " Oh its a Chevelle or a Camaro " ( or any car for that matter - Ford , Mopar , Gm , anything ) , parts are available and they bolt right on ..... I got news for them people .... When you pay as much attention to deatil as I do ..... NOTHING AFTERMARKET IS EVEN CLOSE TO FITTING THE WAY IT SHOULD !!!!!! lol

Thanks for all your replies and info ! ^5's
Joe

I'm running flow tech headers on my 66 with no clearance problem on the driver side but the right side I had to put a small dipple on the#2 cyl tube to clear the upper control arm and had to put a dent in the tube cuz it wasup against the brake line hard by the cross member.
Big/small block mount are the same other then the locking tabs, and Ibelieve the solid mounts seats your engine in the cradle lower, atleast the ones I compared with at advance.

Good luck in figuring out what motor mounts you have or need! I went thru this with my 65/396. It was a sb car originally. I am told the frame mounts had been moved forward to the right location for a big block, based on the clearance between the dist and firewall. I am told the sb mounts set farther back in the frame. I am sure the clutch cross shaft is different, but I wouldn't bet on any it. I replaced the botched up shaft on my car with a new repro which seems to fit correctly, although I cut the frame bracket off and moved it.

Terminology - frame mounts are the part that the motor mounts bolt to, that fit on the frame. Motor mounts are the part which bolts to the block.
When I sat the motor back in the car, the oil pan was on the crossmember and the bolts were nowhere near going in the motor mounts. I had two different style motor mounts originally and figured one was a sb and one a bb. I replaced both with 66bb motor mounts and thought that would make the motor height right. It didn't make any difference at all. I ended up burning the frame mount bolts off and taking them out. I then cut two pieces of 1/2 inch steel to use as spacers under the frame mounts. I welded these to the frame mounts. I put the new motor mounts on the motor and bolted the frame mounts to them. I bolted in the crossmember and clutch linkage and let the motor set in the frame. I then tacked the 1/2" shims welded to the frame mounts to the crossmember. Took it all back apart and welded it solid. This worked, but the fit is still not all that I could want. I concluded maybe I had a "wrong" oil pan, or else there is a difference in height between the frame mounts of a bb and sb. I read as many posts saying guys put bb in with no changes and I have posts that say they changed everything. Who knows?

There is absolutely no difference in the height, width or placement between the OEM GM 1965-67 SB and BB frame brackets. There are cosmetic differences to accomodate the BB insulators (motor mounts) but that's it. As far as header fitment goes, Hooker Comp #2455 are not specific to 64-67 Chevelles and depending on how the engine sits on the frame brackets you could have fitment issues on the driver's side. 2" and larger primary tube Hooker Super Comp headers are also known for fitment issues but maybe not as bad as the 2455's. Hooker Super Comp 1-3/4" primary tube/3" Collector headers fit perfectly but it appears the 2212's (?p/n) are no longer in production. Keep in mind that once the engine is sitting in the car, it is possible to shift it around a bit to facilitate header clearance as most motor mounts have slotted holes where the long bolts go through. Oil pans are specific to the Chevelle (and Camaro) Chassis. Corvette and full size passenger car pans will not work. Clutch linkage: Either the SB or 66-67 BB cross shaft (Z-Bar) will work but the Year One BB unit is the most robust I've seen and the lower lever has the factory style "dog leg" shape to clear the BB oil pressure fitting. The welded bracket on the frame is in the same position for either BB or SB applications.

I have a 454/6-speed in my current 65 El Camino, SB frame brackets w/Energy Suspension 3-1114G poly mounts, MSD HEI Distributor, Hooker Super Comp Ceramic coated 1-3/4" primary tube headers. No fitment issues whatsoever. I've had numerous 65's over the past 40 or so years, my first being a 1965 SS Sport Coupe with an L79/M20 4-Speed/3.31 Posi 12-Bolt. If I could only turn back the clock and not sell that one . . . . . .

Hey Dave,

How low do those headers hang, was thinkin about gettin the Sanderson shorty Big Block headers, but would like some full length ones if they don't hang to low... my car is lowered 2-3".

My brother has an 80 malibu with the hooker supercomps and has creased one already over a manhole that was sticking up when the street was under construction.

Both 72 's are lowered, the Headmans drag, but the Summit ones fit all around. They sit about the same height as the engine cross member, maybe higher up.

Hey Dave,

How low do those headers hang, was thinkin about gettin the Sanderson shorty Big Block headers, but would like some full length ones if they don't hang to low... my car is lowered 2-3".

My brother has an 80 malibu with the hooker supercomps and has creased one already over a manhole that was sticking up when the street was under construction.

They are tucked up quite nicely. The 3" X-pipe I have coming off of the collectors narrowly clears the crossmember. I'll see if I have a picture on file at home.

I had to put a little dimple in one tube but found that I could loosen the column firewall mount, bias it away from the header & get some clearance. Later it seems to have "creeped" back.

On the pass side, the most verical tube where it passes the frame rail had to be flattened for clearance also.

I just had to put in a new pass side header as it hit a high driveway curbcut and bent it to hell. I will be more carefull to do any shifting of things when I replace the drivers side header before any dimpling is done.