OK, first, don't laugh. I purchased a basket case 65 chevelle with the intentions of building my wife her 'hot rod'. Something like a pro-touring car I was figuring. It's really for the whole family (4 seats). And yes, while I'll probably wind up driving it mostly, she'll be gettin groceries in it (seriously).

Originally, I was going to go with a 454 because of the torque. But used LS1/auto trans packages seem to plentyful and cheaper.

Anyone with a LS1 in a early-model Chevelle care to comment on it's performance?

It would seem to me this might be the better way to approach this (from a $$ standpoint) than going the 454. But I don't think 325Hp will do it for me. Think it'll accept a power added under the hood or at that point should I just go BBC?

I also like the idea that everything will marry up to the late-model camaro dash that I want to do and fuel injection would help with starts (and her driving).

I am really having a tough time with this decision.

Thanks,
J

For a daily driver, I think the LS1 would be great. Have an LT1 in my son's '94 Formula {headers, high flow cat, Dynomax cat back, reprogrammed Module}. Car is a beast. Drive it easy or drive it hard - makes no difference. The LS1's are even stronger. I would love to have the 5.3 Vortech from my '02 Silverado in a daily driver car. As much as I like big blocks for a weekend cruiser, there is no subsitute for modern technology for a daily driver.

edited :

Wanted to add the following info for you. Depending on the Model Year you get, but most likely the LS1 will come with the OBD II Module. Don't know how familiar you are with these, but this module will require O2 sensors both before and after a Cat. or you can run the O2 Sims. With the inexpensive price of cats today, you could run headers and twin cats, consider eliminate mufflers altogether and not have a really loud exhaust, plus have a clean running car with no exhaust smell at all. Just food for thought.

i would have to agree on the ls1. the couple of rides i have taken in ls1 powered f-body's i won't soon forget. if i had the dough i would swap an ls1 into my velle.
-Jay

btw: 300 hp isn't enough for you? take a look at some these..... http://www.thunderracing.com/projects/

Sounds like the LS1 is the way to go then.

Anyone know of any major hurdles in doing such a swap? I know I'd have to get an EFI fuel pump and plumb some new lines. Anything else besides that? Will it clear the hood?

Also, I really am not sure if 300HP will do it. At least not in a 65 Chevelle. The Chevelle is a heavier than a 2000+ camaro/f-body right?

Read my edited post. By the way, these are 300HP net. By the old Gross HP rating, more like 350 - 360HP. Torque is high though. My son's '94 Formula is a 3500 - 3600 LB car. We run a 6 speed with 3.42 gears. The car runs real hard. It will light up the 275-40/17's at will.

Again, depends on what you want to do. I would think hood clearance would not be an issue. The small block FI manifolds are low profile. Probably not even as high as a the top of a carb.

Do a web search, I think it was Super Chevy did a LS6 swap into a '70. Also, if you think the LS6 isn't enough power, look around for a Vortech 6.0 litre out of a 3/4 ton Chevy/GMC truck.

The 64-65 are the lighter of the Chevelles. Probably weighs very close to a Camaro. Remeber you want a daily driver. Driving a car with over 400hp everyday rain or shine can kind of get tiring. Man I can't believe I just said that. ;) The LS1 will make more power then you will ever need in an everyday car. Plus it has EFI and an OD transmission for great gas mileage.

Steve

Hello,

I have done a fair amount of research on this swap as I have been contemplating it myself. First I would recommend seeing LS1tech.com. Look in the engine swap area. There are a lot of guys there that have done this swap. If you swap the cam and install ported heads you can yield 400 rear wheel HP with headers and computer reprogram. A 3600 Lb Camaro can pull very low 12's if not high 11's. If you need to go faster than that you can add a blower or nitrous and still get 22+ MPG. To do the swap you need to have the wiring harness thinned out or purchase a new harness from Painless or S&P. You will need to make motor mount adapter or you can purchase those also. If the engine is from a Camaro the engine accessories will work providing you don't use A/C. If you want A/C you will have to either notch out the cross member or buy Corvette accessories and brackets. When the computer is reprogrammed they can take out the vehicle anti thieft, emmissions, second set of O2 sensors, and fuel cannister. You will also save about 200 lbs with this swap over the big block. You will need to add a fuel pump and a return line to the tank. Hopefully that help out a bit.

Kevin

J as a former head/cam LS1 owner, I would not do it. Parts are pretty expensive compared to a 454 and mine just didn't do it for me. My car with the head/cam swap dynoed 425rwhp and it still needed more in a 3300lb F-body. I personally don't like the LS1, not to mention they burn as much oil as my 2-stroke SKI-DOO. If you want to go that route I would do a 383 LT1 and put a Vortech on it :cool: Stick with the 454.

-Joe

I think a traditional small block would be a better idea. Several things about the LS1s are poorly thought out. Aluminum has a very limited lifespan and only four head bolts means instant head gasket problems, just ask any small block Ford guy with a power adder. A 383 cu.in. small block Chevy will have plenty of power without the headaches of the aluminum block and, did i mention, everything fits.

What about the LT1's (94-96 Vintage). The one in the Firebird Formula has 51,000 and runs great. No leaks or oil burning and plenty of power. Maybe it really doesn't come down to modern powerplant at all, the answer to what he is seeking may just be Fuel Injection!

Hmmm. Guess I'll have to think about it. I didn't see any advantage of the LT1 over the LS1. So I figured why not LS1.

I checked out LS1TECH.com. Man those guys are making some serious power with these things.

J,
The LT1 parts are cheaper. FYI, to obtain 425rwhp I spent about $3500-$4000 on parts alone.
1. GTP heads-$2000+core
2. Cam $350
3. Hooker Headers $550
4. Dyno Tuning(a must) $500
and all of the other little things will put it over $3500.
5. Ls6 intake$350

FYI a used LS1 is going to cost you at least $3500 out of a salvage.

I can give you the following first hand experience from the current LTI that we have in the Firebird.

Regardless if you change anything or not, while the motor is out, consider putting a new intake gasket on and service the EGR valve, unless you change the cam to a longer duration cam, at which point you can eliminate the EGR altogether. The LT1 really responds to aftermarket headers, whether shorty or full length. The stock manifolds are fairly restrictive. We installed the Edelbrock TES and it fit well. I would think you could use these or the headers for the Impala SS would fit well. Another advantage of the LT1 is the computer system is OBD-I and only uses 1 set of O2 sensors, placed in front of the cats. So eliminating the cats is not an issue. The only other thing I would address on the LT1 is an aftermarket Optispark. The first Gen units 93-94 were sometimes problematic with moisture. Our's is still the original with no problems. The car is a '94 with 51,000 miles on it and it is potent. The Firebird Formula complete with all the power items probably weighs as much or more than a 64-65 Chevelle w/ smallblock.

Factory HP for the '94 LT1 was 275HP. We have upped that to 305 -310 (SAE NET),(maybe a little more, but it really isn't that important) with the exhaust, K&N filter and a high flow intake From SLP. We haven't touched the inside of the motor, still stock cam, heads, etc.. Depending on how far you want to go, there's an easy 50 - 75 HP just from some basic mods like cam and a little porting work. And with the computer, these are actually much easier to dial in.

Oh and another good site is www.LT1tech.com (http://www.LT1tech.com)

Good Luck.

The oil-consumption issues on the LS1s were generally the 97 vettes and the '98-late'99 cars. If your donor car is a '00+ you are fine. The LS1 is an amazing motor from a design point of view. The only head gasket issue I've ever heard of was on one running 10's with a 250 shot. The LS1s get incredible gas mileage for what they put out and are extremely dependable as well as taking rediculous amounts of abuse in stock form. I love the BB torque but I, myself would favor the LS1. I'm around these cars day in and day out and moderate the tech forum of my local f-body club.....
I'm very impressed with LS1s & LS6s. :cool:

My LS1 was a 2000 and drank about 1qt of redline oil every 1500 miles. It is not limited to early build years. 2001's were really bad too.

I have heard a fair amount of problems with LS1 oil consumption also. I don’t think the year of the engine affects oil useage. From what I have read the cast iron truck blocks do not have anywhere near the oil problems. Maybe it’s a problem with the aluminum blocks?? For the cost of installation and parts the LT1 would be a better option in my honest opinion. The LT1 is basically the same on the outside as a first generation small block with the exception of not having a mechanical fuel pump and a cam driven water pump. You can avoid a lot of problems with headers, motor mounts and accessories. I have driven a few LT1 Corvette’s and they are scary fast. There is a guy named Lloyd Elliot that can port and polish your LT1 heads and make a custom camshaft. His prices are very low in comparison to other ported LT1/LS1 heads. I was researching the cost of an LS1 transplant to an LT1 and with Lloyd’s H/C package you can get close to the same power and it would be a LOT less expensive. There is more power potential in an LS1, but it will cost a LOT more $$$. Over the next few years LS1 performance parts will come down in price when more manufactures make them.

I stole this post from Camaroz28.com in regards to Lloyd Elliot’s packages. Any of these packages can get a Camaro into the 11’s or mid 12’s depending on what you choose.

LE1 cam pulls from 2000 to 6200 RPM and should make 380-390 RWHP with matching heads, 30 lb injectors, 52 TB, 1 3/4 LTs, No cats, good tuning, etc. The heads are ported using stock valves, performance valve job, back cut valves, CM 612 springs, retainers and locks, milling, cleaning and assembly. These heads flow about 255/180 with a 195 cc intake port and stock LT1's flow about 215/150 with a 170 cc intake port.

Heads and cam are $1100 (plus shipping). This has the RPM range of the Hot Cam, CC 305, XE 224/230, etc. but makes more HP and TQ over these cams through out the entire RPM range. This will work with any gear and converter but the track times will be better with a stall and some gear.

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LE2 cam pulls from 2200 to 6500 RPM and should make 400-420 RWHP with matching heads, 30-36 lb injectors, 52-58 mm TB, 1 3/4 LT's, no cats, GOOD tuning, etc. The heads are ported and machined for larger Ferrea 2.00/1.56 valves, Comp 987 dbl springs, TITANIUM 10 degree retainers, locks, locators, milling, cleaning and assembly. These will flow about 270/190 with a 205 cc intake port.

Heads and cam are $1600 (plus shipping) and will need GOOD tuning. This has the RPM range of the CC 306 cam but will make more HP and TQ at peak and across the board. The REAL difference will be the LE2 cam will make TQ in the 2500 RPM range and the cc 306 doesn't start until way past this.

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LE3 cam pulls from 2600 to 6800 RPM in a 350 (2300 to 6500 RPM in a 383) and should make 410 to 430 RWHP with matching heads, 36-42 lb injectors, 58 TB or mono blade, GOOD tuning, etc, etc, etc. These are the same heads from above but with Comp 977 springs instead of the 987's. These are stronger and will also need Comp R lifters to handle the spring pressure.

Heads and cam are $1700 (plus shipping) and will need GOOD tuning. This cam is similar to the GM 847 cam but makes about 10 more HP at peak and starts making HP sooner. Makes more HP and TQ across the board. Needs gear and converter to work well in a 350. Pretty much a racing cam for the 350 or a good street cam that will act like the LE2 in a 383.

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Everyone has a different opinion about what is streetable and what a safe RPM limit is for their engine.

If you are looking for just cylinder heads and no cam, the heads are priced at . . . . .

$750 for the LE1 heads only
$1250 for the LE2 heads only
$1300 for the LE3 heads only

Kevin,

I hope my son doesn't read your posted input to this topic. He just turned 18 and already has his hands full with the F-bird. To me, the LT1's were the natural progression of the small block chevy. Good info!

I'm in a similar situation to you. I'm building a BB '65 Malibu convertible for my girlfriend to drive. I originally started-out to build a stout BB cruiser for my self, but the project changed after I bought my '59. I had already accumulated a lot of BB parts, so I stayed the course. If I were starting from scratch, I would go with the LS1.

The driveability would be greatly improved over the 496 I built. The LS1 offers better gas mileage; handling and braking should be much better with the LS1 vs the BB due to getting 200# off of the front wheels. Since this car is being built for her (if she's like most women), these items probably are more important than the brutal torque of a built BB. Depending how much she likes driving the car, the BB may be pulled next year in favor of a LS1.

Personally I'm really really fond of big blocks.

But for a car your gonna drive alot, the LS1 is an awesome engine.

My Dad has a 2000 Corvette convertible, that gets great mileage, is super easy to live with, and will eat my SS-396 Chevelle's lunch in the quarter mile. :(

The oil consumption problem has to do with the sleeves in the block. There is an easy o-ring fix for this problem if the motor is out of the car. Most cases were reported from the 98-00 cars and some of the 97 Vettes........most 00-02's in our club do not experience this problem.

This is just second hand talk, but everyone I know with an LS1 enjoys their motors immensly, and I have even read a bunch of f*rd forums where the members complained about the modular 4.6's vs the GM LS1 when they are bone stock, other folks comparing them to the 5.0's too.
I personally think a late model LS1 with a matching tranny and correct wiring harness would be fun to drive. It wouldn't win any world's fastest street cars, but would be a good driver combo for just crusin'.
I would be really tempted to use an LS1/manual combo too, but, thats just a matter of choice.
It won't be a rocket ship, but, it will be reliable and even if it does consume some oil, in the grand scheme of things, whats the big deal? Its not like you are going to be doing emissions tests.
I think it would make for a headache free '65 velle, fun to drive for the whole family in the car, with decent MPG, and you have access to all the bolt on performance of the LS1 crowd.
I'd imagine you could do an LS1 w/ matching tranny and harness with a step-up agressive cam and still pull great MPG and a fun level of hp.

Just my .02, but I am always thinking of EFI-ing my 462 anyway, so I may be biased.

Matt