Good race today at Watkins Glenn. The 24 car had it till he wheel hoped into turn 1 and spun leaving the win to T. Stewart who also spun in turn one earlier in race..Jeff Gordon still way in first place points :hurray:

Wish I could have watched it... :(

Sonoma and the Glenn are the 2 best races of the year. :thumbsup: ...too bad you have to pay to watch either of them. :sad:

What happened to Montoya? Glad to see he finished 39th :)

Montoya was so busy trying to keep Truex behind him that he forgot about turn 1. Truex punted him under braking and JPM pinballed into Harvick.

Chaos ensues......

Jeff Gordon still way in first place points :hurray:...for only a few more races.

Oh, how I'm going to laugh when NASCAR's stupid "chase" idea robs their poster-boy of a championship. :disco:

Last year about this time when Gordon was sitting at around 11th or 12th, that's when talks started about expanding the chase to the top 12... :pout: Anyone want to bet that when he loses his lead, they start talking about how the chase isn't working? :clonk: :waving:

Now let's wait and see how bad or what Nascar does to to of their STARS for the shoving match if anything at all. Although the comentators argued it was not Montoyas fault, it really was. He was trying to split himself between blocking Truex and getting in and braking hard to get under Harvick. In the sudden braking Truex got into him as he did not have the chance to react. So Montoya caused it! Montoya is a good but impatient driver who forgrts what he is driving. These are not his F1 cars he is so used to.:thumbsup:

...for only a few more races.

Oh, how I'm going to laugh when NASCAR's stupid "chase" idea robs their poster-boy of a championship. :disco:

Last year about this time when Gordon was sitting at around 11th or 12th, that's when talks started about expanding the chase to the top 12... :pout: Anyone want to bet that when he loses his lead, they start talking about how the chase isn't working? :clonk: :waving:

Its always great to see the 24 car in the points lead and to hear other fans cry foul and spit ..:waving:

I'm sorry, I really can't understand all the accolades being directed Montoya's way this year. He should be in a Country & Western group called the "Ramblin' Wreckers". Now that he has fenders over the front wheels he thinks they are battering rams. It's been happening all year. Yesterday in the Busch race both his fenders were dinged from hitting people out of the way. Wonder if he could have gone any farther across the track to cut off Truex on that restart? I cheered through the ceiling when he wiped out, unfortunately he took Burton and Harvick with him. Obviously Harvick will get fined for saying he "wanted to kick his a@@" during their face-to-face after the accident.

My only disappointment was not seeing Johnson catch up to him to return the favour for Montoya spinning him out earlier. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think having one foot of your fender overlapping another driver's quarter panel confirms "you have the inside track" :confused:

After looking at the replay a few times, it almost looks like Harvick drove his car up into Montoya's stopped car. The group of cars Harvic was in all took a low line on the curve while Harvick drove up.

Where exactly did I cry foul? Gordon has had a great season, and NASCAR's dumb rules are going to take that huge lead away from him. I've been against the "chase" from the start, and now I think it's funny that their stupid idea will likely ruin (or at least impede) the chance at a championship for a driver NASCAR favors any chance they get.

Where exactly did I cry foul? Gordon has had a great season, and NASCAR's dumb rules are going to take that huge lead away from him. I've been against the "chase" from the start, and now I think it's funny that their stupid idea will likely ruin (or at least impede) the chance at a championship for a driver NASCAR favors any chance they get.

Sorry Derek , took your post wrong. :thumbsup:

No problem, I dislike NASCAR's management far more than I dislike Gordon. ;)

I heard him whining last week that without the chase and his current lead he would be untouchable. Now if I remember back when Nascar dreamed up this chase thing he was #1 yes man and all for it! How times change a persons opinion.:D

Got to say it was not a snoozer, FINALLY!!!! Montoya needs his butt whipped behind the wood shed!!!!

Gordon just a victim of driving to hard.

What I like about Harvick, Stewart, Robbie Gordon and even Montoya a little is that they don't mind showing how they feel. Breath of fresh air!!!

The first year of the chase Gordon had a 60 point lead and would have won it all if not for the free pass everybody behind him got. He voiced his displeasure with the format at the awards ceremony that year.
Kim

Whats wrong with all of you? How can you possibly blame Montoya for the wreck?

Juan did NOT try to dive bomb Harvick in any way shape or form. He pulled out to block Truex just like everyone else does, every restart has cars darting all over the place, so why cry when Juan does it. He had a tall 1st gear which made him slow on restarts so he went to block. Had Juan been trying to go for any pass he would have late braked massively, instead he braked at a spot he'd know he'd make the corner, and Truex who isnt nearly as good as Juan as a driver, didnt brake in time and hit him from behind. This caused Juan to get all sideways and wheel-hoppin, so he couldnt slow down to avoid anyone. Its a shame Harvick got takin out, as he was completely innocent, as was Burton, but Harvick's team should have said "Juan got hit from behind" before Harvick decided to go after JPM. Montoya's latin temperment is rather immature though, no diff than what we saw in F1. He still needs to grow up. But some good pushin and shoving is entertaining ;)

In the Busch race, Juan got sandwiched which wrecked his car, he didnt do anything. Then he got wrecked later ending his race.

I dont think some of you really get the driver aspect in racing, perticularly road racing. Its not like oval racing where you have a half mile of corner and 3 racing lines to play with. On road courses you got 1 good line which every car is trying to be at, and you get one shot each time u go in for braking, and theres a massive difference in driving skill on a road course. So when Montoya can carry a couple more mph of speed into a corner than the guy infront can, he's going to get right close to car thats already a few car lenghts ahead. When your faster than the guy ahead, sometimes you get too close, and when theres a little opening or the driver infront slows a little more than usual, its contact. Sure the Johnson deal was Montoya's fault, no question, but he didnt just simply bump and run him.

So many get on Montoya's case for nothing, but dont mention everyone elses. In Montreal Harvick bashed Pruett, who bashed Fellows, who had a car that was VERY capable of winning that race. He always gets wrecked by some guy trying to dive bomb him it seems. Then Robby Gordon wrecking Ambrose on purpose, yeah I think Gordon got screwed that race, but you dont ignore Nascar's ruling to wreck the leader on purpose.

I think people need to look what happens when a car gets in a wreck because someone hits them, or because some lacking driver like Kenny Wallace does something stupid, or if a faster guy accidently bumps a slower guy, or if one guy wrecks someone on purpose.

Felt bad for Jeff Gordon, even though I dont like him as a competitor, I just really dont like Tony Stewart. He outbraked himself and lost he race, but at least Tony can say he did the same thing, but luckily was there to win it at the end.

Nice showing by Ron Fellows, too bad he had a drive through penalty.

Juan knew he was slow on restarts and should have stayed in line. If his car and driving skill were up to the task he would have gotten the positions back.
Gordon was slow on restarts and still ran up front till the mistake at the end.
Kim

Gordon had a restart 1st gear, Juan used his 1st gear in the race which is why he had poor restarts. Aside from the start of the race, I dont think Jeff really had much problems with his restarts.

I dont like blocking, but I see it all the time, and there seems to be a general rule of thumb that you can cover your racing line, which is what Juan did, but to an extreme. I personally dont like seeing blocking to that extent. Its silly to say he should just stay in line and not defend.

Its silly to say he should just stay in line and not defend.

Or, he could have acted like the expirienced driver he is and said, "There's no way my car is good enough to do what I'm trying to do" and let Truex have the inside. Maybe then he, and two other drivers would have finished the race with decent finishes.

Top 10 beats the hell out of 39th and wrecked race car.

I've yet to see a guy thats battling for position, and battling for the eventual win to just let someone go by without defending the position. Theres no way Juan could see into the future that Truex would hit him, and that would end up taking 2 other cars out.

Maybe Truex should have realized he couldnt make a pass since hte inside line was completely closed off, and braked early? Maybe then he wouldnt have rammed the back of Juan and took 3 cars, including 2 challengers out of the race.

Theres no way Juan could see into the future that Truex would hit him, and that would end up taking 2 other cars out.


That's funny, because I knew what was going to happen as soon as he pulled in front of Truex.

It was a pretty good race today and the regular cup drivers didn't take out the road course guys like usual! Gordon, yeah he used to whine and he started in good crs, but he can drive a car as good as any body out there. Stewart, yeah, he lets his a** overload his mouth regularly, but he can drive a car, too. It's never a bad thing to see the best drivers at the front!

People don't like to hear this, but I see Montoya as a lot like old Ironhead! damn the torpedoes, he is going to put his car in that spot! Like it or not Dale could drive a car, too.

Harvick..fun to see him get wiped out by somebody else mistake and then complain. He did it last week and then won the race! He should have been about 10th place in Canada.

Great to have a good race. next week a snoozer at Michigan, but then Bristol on the new concrete and banking!! That ought to be good.

That's funny, because I knew what was going to happen as soon as he pulled in front of Truex.

Ditto that,the wife even said "they're gonna take some cars out in that turn" the instant before it happened.He knew he was slow on restarts and should've stayed in line then taken the position back.That block would have gotten him,and anyone else,a pass through penalty in the IRL series.He basically gave Truex a brake-check,and Truex didn't brake as quickly,intentionally or not.

I somehow doubt anyone could foresee Harvick and Burton getting takin out just because JPM was trying to defend his position. Turn 1 was having cars going off all day, so on a restart its always predictable to see someone get in it.

Brake check on Truex? Come on.

I dont know what your talkin about in the IRL. I see blocking where they swerve all over the track to keep the guy behind all the time. I recall Sam Hornish zig zaggin infront of Andretti to win the Indy 500.

I somehow doubt anyone could foresee Harvick and Burton getting takin out just because JPM was trying to defend his position. Turn 1 was having cars going off all day, so on a restart its always predictable to see someone get in it.

Brake check on Truex? Come on.

I dont know what your talkin about in the IRL. I see blocking where they swerve all over the track to keep the guy behind all the time. I recall Sam Hornish zig zaggin infront of Andretti to win the Indy 500.Says the president of the Montoya fan club;).
The best race I have seen in a while, Stewart, Hamlin and Edwards were really fighting it out.
Ron

All in All It was a Dam good Road Race today. I watched it from start to finish, and it was exciting as all hell !!!! Except for the full course red flag...

Says the president of the Montoya fan club;).


Yeah i dont know whats up... In F1 i really didnt like Montoya at all lol. Infact I was quick to point out his mistakes and rag on him pretty bad haha. But I think he's being wrongfully bagged on here.

damn NASCAR.. don't they realize that there are a few of us out here that don't have cable or a satellite..
i'm not much into NASCAR anymore, but the road courses and Bristol are fun to watch..

I've yet to see a guy thats battling for position, and battling for the eventual win to just let someone go by without defending the position. Theres no way Juan could see into the future that Truex would hit him, and that would end up taking 2 other cars out.

Maybe Truex should have realized he couldnt make a pass since hte inside line was completely closed off, and braked early? Maybe then he wouldnt have rammed the back of Juan and took 3 cars, including 2 challengers out of the race.


Hummm...I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many people JPM has run into or wrecked this year but can count on one finger (the finger Harvick wants to give JPM) how many people Martin Truex has wrecked...

To say Truex "who isnt nearly as good as Juan as a driver" is your opinion (one I share IF they are both driving open wheelers) but I'd put money on Truex until JPM gets a little bit more consistent in a Cup car.

Montoya was my favorite Indy driver, my favorite F1 driver, and now one of my favorite Nascar drivers. I also think he could take Harvick in a fight. How 'bout them apples!!!

That's funny, because I knew what was going to happen as soon as he pulled in front of Truex.

x2

I somehow doubt anyone could foresee Harvick and Burton getting takin out just because JPM was trying to defend his position. Turn 1 was having cars going off all day, so on a restart its always predictable to see someone get in it.

Brake check on Truex? Come on.

I dont know what your talkin about in the IRL. I see blocking where they swerve all over the track to keep the guy behind all the time. I recall Sam Hornish zig zaggin infront of Andretti to win the Indy 500.
How could he not know that by blocking someone THAT aggressively in a pack of 20+ cars, he was risking it? He should've just let him by and take back the position later. I mean, it was ONLY Truex. :rolleyes:

It is JPM's fault for doing it in the middle of 20+ Cars, and then braking MUCH earlier on purpose. Was he not expecting to get dumped?

Montoya was my favorite Indy driver, my favorite F1 driver, and now one of my favorite Nascar drivers. I also think he could take Harvick in a fight. How 'bout them apples!!!
Wow, that's exactly what NASCAR is about, who can fight and who can't.. :noway:

Montoya was my favorite Indy driver, my favorite F1 driver, and now one of my favorite Nascar drivers. I also think he could take Harvick in a fight. How 'bout them apples!!!

I believe Harvick could hold his own!:yes:

I believe Harvick could hold his own!:yes:

If not, I bet Gordon offers to hold it....

I'm waiting for NASCAR to either:

1- make the guys take the helmets off when they get into shoving matches so it can be more like hockey. No driver will hit another driver who has a helmet on

2- run an enduro race once a year with whatever cars they have left at the end of the season. Lets put the enduro on a certain small already crash-ridden track and televise it on Pay-Per-View. They can bill it as the get even for all the boneheaded moves race.

Brake check on Truex? Come on.

What I meant was that it was near the same thing,going into a corner and having to slow,in front of a quicker car.No,I don't think he brake checked him.

I believe Harvick could hold his own!:yes:

If not, I bet Gordon offers to hold it....

He'd have too get Jimmy Johnson's permission first.

Common on! Harvick would kick Juans butt!!!!

Harvick is a big P***y! He is the one that needs his ass beat. He obviously screwed up and hopefully he will end up paying for it.

Harvick is a big P***y! He is the one that needs his ass beat. He obviously screwed up and hopefully he will end up paying for it.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Harvick screwed up? How? All he knew was the he got dumped by JPM, not that JPM got bumped by Truex for being stupid....

I don't see how Harvick could get punished, JPM did all the pushing, Harvick never touch (except to restrain) JPM..

To say Truex "who isnt nearly as good as Juan as a driver" is your opinion (one I share IF they are both driving open wheelers) but I'd put money on Truex until JPM gets a little bit more consistent in a Cup car.

I dont know how one can say JPM isnt a better driver than Truex. Sure Montoya isnt a great oval stock car racer, but like you said he just doesnt have the experience. Truex has been doing stock cars and racing on Nascar ovals for how long? Over a season id put my money on Truex too, at least for now. But on a road course, id put my money on JPM every time between the two.


How could he not know that by blocking someone THAT aggressively in a pack of 20+ cars, he was risking it? He should've just let him by and take back the position later. I mean, it was ONLY Truex.

It is JPM's fault for doing it in the middle of 20+ Cars, and then braking MUCH earlier on purpose. Was he not expecting to get dumped?


JPM didnt brake MUCH earlier, but he did brake earlier because he knows the laws of physics in road racing. You can NOT go as deep into a corner, perticularly one that has cars going through it, when your that far inside. Its not possible. So Montoya had no choice to brake earlier to make sure he'd make the corner and not crash anyone, Truex apparently didnt know this and hit him. I cant see anyone, even a Robby Gordon braking early just to get hit in the ass on a corner that already is easy to lose the rear.

JPM didnt brake MUCH earlier, but he did brake earlier because he knows the laws of physics in road racing. You can NOT go as deep into a corner, perticularly one that has cars going through it, when your that far inside. Its not possible. So Montoya had no choice to brake earlier to make sure he'd make the corner and not crash anyone, Truex apparently didnt know this and hit him. I cant see anyone, even a Robby Gordon braking early just to get hit in the ass on a corner that already is easy to lose the rear.
Uhh, yea, got that....:yes:

What I meant was he was stupid for knowing that he'd have to brake-cautiously (much earlier), and still tried to block/pissing some one off.

Isn't it terrible that your so called Gordon is totally embarassing the rest of the class? The chase is gonna save them unfortunately. Gordon hasn't had his own crew chief for the last 6 races, and he's still whoopin' on the rest of the rookies. Go 24!

Isn't it terrible that your so called "" Gordon is totally embarassing the rest of the class?

I was at the Glenn a number of years ago. Some race fan had painted their car . As I got closer I saw that the letters represented " Fans Against Gordon"

juan is a jerk
he spins someone at virtually every race!
they need to park him!
he blocked truex because he had a crappy first gear and couldn't get out of the way.
I really was hoping that jpm would have been better at the cup cars, but he is proving to be an idiot.
as for you guys picking on jeff gordon. I don't care if he wins or loses, but he is one great driver. that is why dale earnhardt took such a liking to him.
I also think that harvick would be able to woop on jpm - he has a longer reach and he also has the height.:D
really though - harvick had every right to be pi$$ed at jpm, everyone else is!

It takes less fingers to count how many races JPM didn't cause a wreck. ;)

It takes less fingers to count how many races JPM didn't cause a wreck. ;)YEP

Uhh, yea, got that....:yes:

What I meant was he was stupid for knowing that he'd have to brake-cautiously (much earlier), and still tried to block/pissing some one off.

So Juan is stupid for knowing how to make a corner, but Truex is Mr Innocent when he didnt know how and rammed into Montoya? Im not sure I see the logic in that. I dont think Truex is an idiot because he rammed him, I dont think it was great driving either, but those things happen. I still dont see any good reasoning to why one would say Montoya caused the wreck when he got hit.

So Juan is stupid for knowing how to make a corner, but Truex is Mr Innocent when he didnt know how and rammed into Montoya? Im not sure I see the logic in that. I dont think Truex is an idiot because he rammed him, I dont think it was great driving either, but those things happen. I still dont see any good reasoning to why one would say Montoya caused the wreck when he got hit.

No. Juan is stupid for trying to be a tough guy in the middle of a pack of 20+ cars. He still had plenty of laps to make up that one spot he'd of loss IF he raced cleanly. I can accept blocking in the last 5 laps, but not with as many as were left.

I dont know how one can say JPM isnt a better driver than Truex. Sure Montoya isnt a great oval stock car racer, but like you said he just doesnt have the experience. Truex has been doing stock cars and racing on Nascar ovals for how long? Over a season id put my money on Truex too, at least for now. But on a road course, id put my money on JPM every time between the two.

I guess I'm just not getting your reply?

I never said JPM isn't a better driver...I said that was your opinion. I ALSO SAID I SHARED YOUR OPINION IF THEY ARE BOTH DRIVING OPEN WHEELERS.

You openly say Truex "...isn't nearly as good as Juan as a driver" but have nothing to back that up. You can't compare apple to oranges. Give JPM time to learn and maybe you can justify that but not at this point. It simply depends on what your good at. Tony Stewart was just average in the Busch series and admits that because of the lack of power he has a harder time diving them. JPM may be the best F1 driver to ever walk the earth but that doesn't mean he is a better overall driver than Truex. I recall Jeff Gordon swapping rides (I think it was with JPM's car too) and his first time out wasn't too far off the F1 drivers time...FIRST TIME OUT! I don't think Truex has ever driven a F1 car but who is to say how good or bad he could/would have been?

Backing up a bit...I believe JPM is over 400 points behind that lesser driver (you know, the one who appears ready to fight/contend for a Nextel Cup Championship) who has been driving the second best car DEI has to offer since he came into the series. Ops, almost forgot he won a Busch Series Championship too.

I couldn't care less about this really, but if you are going to talk about apples to apples then do it. Martin Truex in his rookie year (2006) was 21st in points after Watkins Glen, JPM in his Rookie year (2007) is 19th in points after Watkins Glen. Now consider how many years of Busch experience Truex had driving stock cars vs. JPM and I would side with JPM being the better driver.

Thats more apples to apples;)

Jeff

I couldn't care less about this really, but if you are going to talk about apples to apples then do it. Martin Truex in his rookie year (2006) was 21st in points after Watkins Glen, JPM in his Rookie year (2007) is 19th in points after Watkins Glen. Now consider how many years of Busch experience Truex had driving stock cars vs. JPM and I would side with JPM being the better driver.

Thats more apples to apples;)

Jeff

Or how about JPM driving for a better team in his first year!:D

I guess I'm just not getting your reply?

I never said JPM isn't a better driver...I said that was your opinion. I ALSO SAID I SHARED YOUR OPINION IF THEY ARE BOTH DRIVING OPEN WHEELERS.

You openly say Truex "...isn't nearly as good as Juan as a driver" but have nothing to back that up. You can't compare apple to oranges. Give JPM time to learn and maybe you can justify that but not at this point. It simply depends on what your good at. Tony Stewart was just average in the Busch series and admits that because of the lack of power he has a harder time diving them. JPM may be the best F1 driver to ever walk the earth but that doesn't mean he is a better overall driver than Truex. I recall Jeff Gordon swapping rides (I think it was with JPM's car too) and his first time out wasn't too far off the F1 drivers time...FIRST TIME OUT! I don't think Truex has ever driven a F1 car but who is to say how good or bad he could/would have been?

Backing up a bit...I believe JPM is over 400 points behind that lesser driver (you know, the one who appears ready to fight/contend for a Nextel Cup Championship) who has been driving the second best car DEI has to offer since he came into the series. Ops, almost forgot he won a Busch Series Championship too.

Jeff Gordon IMO, is the best Nascar driver ever. Tony Stewart is very good too, but I still think Jeff is better and its showing again this year from dominating the season, but of course he has ALWAYS had great equiptment. So it didnt suprise me to see him do well in the F1 car that day, perticularly since F1 cars arent taht hard to drive. There is no clutch use, no H pattern shifter, infact it was auto upshifts, traction control, etc. Its just very hard to drive fast. And despite people saying he was close to F1 driver times, he wasnt. Mind you the car was setup in high downforce trim and the conditions were different, so it wouldnt be able to run the same times seen in the GP, but JPM did a 1:12.798 in the 2002 US GP. If I recall right, Jeff Gordon did a 1:16.6 or so. I know JPM did a simple shake down of the car and did low to mid 1:15's. And thats him, not Truex. Apples to apples, Jeff Gordon smokes Truex.

I think theres lots of fact to give JPM on his driving skills. He's won in every series he's drivin in. He's won on ovals including the Indy 500 in his first try, and he's won in Nascar. He won his first Busch road course race, and Nextel road course race. He potentially could have won both in Watkins Glen too. Truex with loads of experience, and has a Busch championship under his belt, and he's got a whopping 1 victory in NNC. Equal to Montoya. Ovals just dont require as much driver skill, its a much bigger collection of team and setup. It requires different skills for sure, but braking techniques, shifting, throttle control arent as finely used as on a road course. And Montoya has proven better than Truex in Nascar road courses.

Im agreeing with you id put my money on Truex in ovals because given the experience, the teamwork, the driving, whatever... he performances better on average than Montoya at this time. But being higher in points in 1 series in 1 year doesnt mean he's better as a driver. You only give credit to MOntoya as an open wheel driver, but not as a road course driver. I find that interesting.

Got to say it was not a snoozer, FINALLY!!!! Montoya needs his butt whipped behind the wood shed!!!!

Gordon just a victim of driving to hard.

What I like about Harvick, Stewart, Robbie Gordon and even Montoya a little is that they don't mind showing how they feel. Breath of fresh air!!!

No love here for MONTOYA.Can't stand the guy..

Montoya was my favorite Indy driver, my favorite F1 driver, and now one of my favorite Nascar drivers. I also think he could take Harvick in a fight. How 'bout them apples!!!


I bet if it would have been Tony Sewart instead of Harvick he would have said nothing.Tony would have pulled out a can of WHOOP A--Montoya isn't a nascar driver and should go back too F1.

Or how about JPM driving for a better team in his first year!:D

Your calling Felix Sabates a better team than DEI? I sure hope you are joking about that!!! Going all the way back to '01 DEI has 19 wins in that time, Gannassi/ Sabates has 6 including JPM's win at infineon this year. Truex definitely has the better team behind him.

Jeff

Your calling Felix Sabates a better team than DEI? I sure hope you are joking about that!!! Going all the way back to '01 DEI has 19 wins in that time, Gannassi/ Sabates has 6 including JPM's win at infineon this year. Truex definitely has the better team behind him.

Jeff

:D You did note the smile at the end? :D

Montoya like all the others that have come over from open wheel bring lots of talant with them. They also bring that big chip on their shoulder that they all seem to have, that arrogance, and of all the open whell drivers the F1 guys are the worst. That said , it will take Montoya a while to find his place to fit in and he will as they all have. You have to admit he even rubbed all the F1 guys the wrong way.:thumbsup:

:D You did note the smile at the end? :D

I was hoping so!!! Never know around here anymore:D

Jeff

:D You did note the smile at the end? :D

Montoya like all the others that have come over from open wheel bring lots of talant with them. They also bring that big chip on their shoulder that they all seem to have, that arrogance, and of all the open whell drivers the F1 guys are the worst. That said , it will take Montoya a while to find his place to fit in and he will as they all have. You have to admit he even rubbed all the F1 guys the wrong way.:thumbsup:


Good post. Montoya is indeed arrogant, I dont think that comes just from his time in F1, but I think from how he was raised. He was a complete idiot in F1, thought a character that is very welcome in F1 as it beats crappy politics.

In F1, JPM was not known for his developement skills. He wasnt great at communicating with the team so the car couldnt develope at a rate compared to what Ferrari could do with Schumacher. I think that problem carries over into Nascar with significant negative results. I think he really needs to communicate better with the team to find setups that dont just feel good to start, but will feel good at the time that makes a long run fast. Then he really needs to learn how to tell the team what direction the car needs to go during the race, and by how much so the team can make the proper adjustments so he has a car that keeps with the changing track conditions. I think right now he's too focused on learning different lines at all the tracks, which is a fair excuse but he needs to find a more consistant speed over 500 miles.

To me the sign of a good crewcheif and team is one that can keep a car fast throughout changing conditions, and furthermore take a car that isnt good to start, but makes it fast as the day goes on. That was my biggest frustration with Tony Eurey Jr, he always seemed to make the wrong call on the last pitstop and Dale Jr's car wasnt good enough to win, infact it often faded backwards.

Right now where he's at, he has a top 15 car/team easily. I think the team is capable of a package that can run in the top 10 reasonably often, barring any crashes.

well, maybe Juan needs to watch Days of Thunder to see how Tom Cruise developed from an arrogant driver that didn't know how to communicate to the team what the car was doing to a championship contender over the course of one season..
maybe he and Harvick need to get some Caprices and have a high speed demo derby so they can become best friends on and off the track..

Jeff Gordon IMO, is the best Nascar driver ever. Tony Stewart is very good too, but I still think Jeff is better and its showing again this year from dominating the season, but of course he has ALWAYS had great equiptment. So it didnt suprise me to see him do well in the F1 car that day, perticularly since F1 cars arent taht hard to drive. There is no clutch use, no H pattern shifter, infact it was auto upshifts, traction control, etc. Its just very hard to drive fast. And despite people saying he was close to F1 driver times, he wasnt. Mind you the car was setup in high downforce trim and the conditions were different, so it wouldnt be able to run the same times seen in the GP, but JPM did a 1:12.798 in the 2002 US GP. If I recall right, Jeff Gordon did a 1:16.6 or so. I know JPM did a simple shake down of the car and did low to mid 1:15's. And thats him, not Truex. Apples to apples, Jeff Gordon smokes Truex.

I think theres lots of fact to give JPM on his driving skills. He's won in every series he's drivin in. He's won on ovals including the Indy 500 in his first try, and he's won in Nascar. He won his first Busch road course race, and Nextel road course race. He potentially could have won both in Watkins Glen too. Truex with loads of experience, and has a Busch championship under his belt, and he's got a whopping 1 victory in NNC. Equal to Montoya. Ovals just dont require as much driver skill, its a much bigger collection of team and setup. It requires different skills for sure, but braking techniques, shifting, throttle control arent as finely used as on a road course. And Montoya has proven better than Truex in Nascar road courses.

Im agreeing with you id put my money on Truex in ovals because given the experience, the teamwork, the driving, whatever... he performances better on average than Montoya at this time. But being higher in points in 1 series in 1 year doesnt mean he's better as a driver. You only give credit to MOntoya as an open wheel driver, but not as a road course driver. I find that interesting.


Well...I gotta say you know a LOT more about him than I do. I guess I just (still) don't understand you saying Truex isn't nearly as good a driver. If they came up through the ranks together and we could compare them side by side, in equal equipment, track for track there would be some sort of baseline to use when comparing any two drivers. It's all good, doens't change either of our paychecks :beers:.