Hey guys looking for pros and cons to each trying to decied which one. Leaning gm way but does Shaf offer a 500+ ci at about 575hp for less than the 9000 he's getting for the 540? Believe the Shaf is probably better but don't need 675 hp or the big bill that goes with it but love the parts and assembly.....hmmmmm.

Ralph,

I've had some recent dealings with Shafiroff and cannot say enough great things about them. I picked up a 540 short block from them and am VERY pleased. When I originally called I was planning on going a 509 route since I thought I didn't need a 540 (yeah right!). When I called the price ended up being the same for either a 509 or a 540 short block so it was a no brainer. I just ordered a set of AFR heads and some other odds and ends for the motor this morning. I know I'm doing this piecemeal but it's the easiest way for me right now.

Anyway, give Shafiroff a call and ask for Nic! He's the guy I've talked to everytime and he is a PRO and a really nice guy. I've been so impressed by these guys. Give them a call and I bet they can whip up something for you! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Mike is a great guy and very helpful as well, his extention is 226.

This may be controversial, but it's got to be said. I think anyone is better off developing a relationship with the local performance machine shop and work with them to build a race engine. If you have that as an option, as in a good machinist that has experience in this area and the right equipment, you will be better off in the long run. The engines I have seen from all the big shops, that cost less than $15k, are all shake-n-bake. By that I mean, very little attention is given in the assemble. They build one or two carefully then follow a standard recipe..... production process. Carefully attention to honing, ring fit, decking, rod bolt stretch, dial bore to mic readings on everything are typically not done on these special deal engines. It just cost too much! It's set up conservative. In addition to keep the price down many Asian parts are used that do not have the same quality as found here. Cavot... If you do not have that kind of shop in your area :( these big shops can be a good friend, but YOU need to very specific what you order. :D

I have to agree with Paul. I know a machine shop that was approached by one of the BIG Crate companies to assemble motors for them. The offer was $350 a motor...The machine shop said they could never do a motor for that. The company said it was just a bolt together process no need to check anything, it was already checked using the exact same parts you will be using. The machine shop came back with "what about all the clearances that needed to be checked..the responded..."no need to". Well the machine shop declined, so the BIG company went to someone else to mass produce the motors. They have 2 to 4 different shops screwing together motors for them depending on varying demand.

The deals are there and if there is no one available locally to help you out than it is sometimes the only choice and it is certainly convenient.

But as Paul said a good relationship with a reputable local shop will pay off in the long run. If you don't know of one..Ask the roundy-round circle track guys where they go..you can almost be positive that shop has a good rep.

Guys i appreciate the input keep it coming ( what about the zz502 i can get one at cost?) I myself am a circle track guy but i live in Canada and to put this in perspective a 500 horse small just cost us $15000 and we already had the heads and did all the assembly ourselves!!! This is why i'm shopping the mail order guys. Shaf apparently dynos his motors so i hope they put em together in house and would like to think his rep. is worth more than selling crap. Again let me know your thoughts i'm all ears. Ralph

Ralph... all I can add is if you get one of those engines, I'd buy a few tools and engine stand and take her apart before running. Some recommended tools:
Micrometers 1", 2-3" and 5"
Dial Bore Gauge 1" to 5" min
Good 1/2 torque wrench
0-1" dial indicator and magnetic base
fixture to measure piston to deck height. Will hold dial indicator above.
12" min cam degree wheel and crank snout turner for 1/2" socket.
good quality ring compressor for piston install
oil pump priming tool the one with collier.
Harmonic balance install/remover tool with real roller thrust bearing.
On the engine spring pressure tester.
Spring remover tool.
spring height micrometer.

you can get all that for under a $1000 easy and from that point on, if you use it, you will be a much happier engine owner. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I would have to agree with what has been said. But it also depends on what your doing with the engine. If this is a show or cruze car, the crate motor would probably work alright for you. If you want to go racing, I'd find a local engine builder with a good rep. You'll probably be happier in the long run. My .02

does anyone have any examples of bad experiences with any of these builders (Shafiroff, Steve Schmidt, Reher Morrison, et cetera?)

Unfortunately, the quality of machine work coming out of MANY shops is getting to be very poor quality. Lessening demand, difficulty in hiring and retaining quality people to run the machines, extremely depressed profit margins, high overhead, etc. have teamed up to entice even the small shops to take shortcuts and produce substandard work.
I am currently in the process of completely re-doing a block prep on a +.030 454 that was done at one of our area's most highly respected "little guy" race shops. In the form it was returned to me, it was virtually unuseable. As the owner is retiring, I suspect one of his lackeys or his son did the work.
Many machine shops bank on the average guy NOT having the equipment or knowledge to check their work. I learned (the hard way) to check the machine shop's work in 1969 and have spent a lifetime acquiring tools to do just that.
If you plan on fooling with hotrods for real, do yourself a favor and invest in tools to check the machine shop's work. And, learn how to use them.

Randy

I also think that a lot of people disregard the big national shops for no valid reasons, maybe I am wrong.
People like Shafiroff, Reher Morison et cetera have their reputation to protect...it is hard for me to believe that they would not produce good products.

Well hows this to add to the fire, AFR heads, everybody respects them right?! My friends drive almost identical dragsters and so bought AFR racing heads for SBC at close to 2200 for 2 pairs. First race last year they weren't seeing the gains that they had expected. 2nd run down track and performance suffered more! Pulled off valve cover and rocker arms were tweaked to side on one cylinder per each dragster's engines. They later found out that valve guides were to tight! Well there you have it. Can't even trust AFR! Ol'is if you want it done right:::! :cool:

Call Shafiroff and ask for Nic. I've had my 540" BB for about a year now. I've drove it on the street, put it on the track, and sprayed the hell out of it. It isn't burning a drop of oil. It's been converted to EFI and is currently in our 96' Z28. The car tipped the scales at 3480 and ran a 6.30 in the 8th on motor. Go ahead and make that call.

I am running a set of Shafiroff rectangular port heads on my boat engine. Can't say enough good things about the quality of the port work etc... Bottom end was built by a guy who builds motors for Moroso. 60 hours on the motor, sometimes running 5300+ with no problems at all....

A super-comp racer in div 6 has a saying i like. "Just keep throwing money at it" :D

a friend of mine bought a shaft-ruff 598 short block and within the first 8 passes or so ( 1/8 mile). It let 2 rods go plus all the associated parts. it was suppose to have certain name parts intstalled (paid xtra) and they were not there.
good luck
BobH

I'm sorry but I have never had the money to high-zoot a motor so I always shade tree'ed mine b/c I'm a tight-a, er, a -- frugal...

I know my cheap motors in the past wouldn't run with even the smaller dogs but I have learned enough and driven them long enough that I trusted myself to build my 496 for like $3800 to $4000 plus with the knowledge that a very good local Machinist did his best for me ..

Do it yourself and have fun, then if she comes apart you can't blame anybody but yourself and you live and learn..

pdq67

Hey Bob, what is your friend's name and how long ago was that?

Did Shafiroff take care of it?
Thanks

It happened in the late fall. and the paperwork is in hands of the court.
BobH

Originally posted by blazerbob:
Well hows this to add to the fire, AFR heads, everybody respects them right?! My friends drive almost identical dragsters and so bought AFR racing heads for SBC at close to 2200 for 2 pairs. First race last year they weren't seeing the gains that they had expected. 2nd run down track and performance suffered more! Pulled off valve cover and rocker arms were tweaked to side on one cylinder per each dragster's engines. They later found out that valve guides were to tight! Well there you have it. Can't even trust AFR! Ol'is if you want it done right:::! :cool: =

Bob,,
In over 6 years of dealing with & selling AFR heads I have to say you are the first person I have ever heard that has had a problem with the Quality of AFR's parts or assembly practices & believe me I talk with a lot of engine builders & end users of AFR products.
They are one of two head companys I have never had a problem with on complete heads.
The other is Brodix.
I have seen problems but they ended up being engine assembly related,, geometry, rocker centering etc.
Just my two cents on AFR,, :D
And yes we do sell them & are good friends with Tony but I would not defend them if I knew of problems, I would be on the phone with Tony instead :(
Anything else I get bare & do myself.

A local guy here ordered a complete 500+ cu.in from Shafiroff, and in a 10" tire Camaro is running a spinning 9.84's. Has had no problems last year with it, and his dad is ordering the bigger one this spring.
They both have great things to say about Shafiroff.

It'a hard to believe a local highly respected shop - e.g. one with good references - couldn't build a solid 675hp 540 or 509. With the very best "locals", the only times I've heard about major screw-ups is when the buyer is in a real hurry and can't wait for the one or two master machinists on staff so Johnny new-guy gets put on the project and maybe it doesn't go so well. There is certainly something to said be for patience when dealing with local shops.

I've heard good things about Shaf - actually from the Harland Sharp folks who aren't even doing his rockers anymore - but still said Shaf's a good guy to work with. But even with that, if he's more than a couple hundred miles from you, I'd rethink it.

An overload in the shop or a need to tighten up the profit margins may cause even the best intentions to suffer. The temptation to subcontract the rotating assembly, short block, heads, etc. out to a grind and go facility like mitchell or recon or someone like that becomes pretty high. If you're not close enough to the shop to drop in unannounced and see some progress, then you got no idea except what people are saying or have said. Everyone in the "fully assembled" market space is getting hammered so...no telling what might happen to put a little more money in the deal for them.

All that said, I'd still take my chances with a local shop 10 times over buying something from even a "very highly regarded" builder hundreds or thousands of miles away. I've got a story about one such incident that went bad - $8K bad - but in comparison to the entire restoration that's not a huge mistake, just one that didn't have to be made.