well, i finally have an exscuse to build a race engine. this guy has been talkin some serious crap to me and i bet him a pizza that id win in a race at the track. i was going to build a vortec 355 anyway, this is just a reason to do it sooner.
so, i want to use the Ultradyne 257/267 @.050 cam. and i was thinking of using vortec heads with a super victor intake manifold, 1 3/4 headers, and a 750 carb. im wondering how i can get the most out of this combo. if anyone has a good vortec combo and some times that would be great! the reason i pick that cam is because it doesnt play with electronics or vaccume. so i can still keep the car streetable.

thanks

mike

That's a really big cam!! I doubt the Vortecs will support the rpm capabilities of it.

Originally posted by Pat Kelley:
That's a really big cam!! Maybe too big. Ditto!! With that cam youre gonna want some compression, converter and gear to back it up. At least 11:1, around 4500 stall and at least a 4.10 gear to wring the best out of it(all IMO of course). At that point, i think the vortecs would just hold you back, as i dont exactly know how far they can be ported...maybe a few steps down on the cam would be better for your setup?

well the heads will support the lift. esp if i get Z28 springs. and i was thining of going with a 100 shot on it. thats according to harold.

what kinda compression should i go if i want to run a 100 shot on it? i was thinking of using hyper. pistons. or forged pistons.

should i go with all forged internals? will a cast crank hold up to this? or should i go forged?

and its not a good idea to port vortecs (according to harold) and if you do you cant go too far with them because it will actually end up hurting the head and flow of it.


thansk for the advise you guys are great

After you do all the porting that you'll need to do to the voetec heads, you'll be in those things way too much. For the cost of all the porting and time, I'd get some Dart Iron Eagle 200cc heads with 64cc chambers. You'll need dome pistons to get the comp. high enough, and with the NOS and high compression, the thicker deck on the Darts will be a better choise. You can find a set on Ebay for around $700. Just get some K-Motion springs (#571-K-750) from Jegs or Summit and you'll be happier than if you get the Z-28 springs. I have these on my Nova and I haven't seen any valve float and I spin my engine sometimes to 6500rpm. Good luck with the bet and post the outcome when you're done.
Dave .R

Just say no to the Vortecs....protopline makes a 50cc head that works great for your application. Im using it on a 355 with a 200 shot. The heads cc'd at 54cc. You can get a bare set for under 500 bucks..Flow better than vortecs and will support 550HP. Use forged pistons at least..gap the Compression ring at .022 or so. With the small chambers you can get close to 12-1 with a flat top piston smile.gif

Originally posted by bigjimzlll:
Just say no to the Vortecs....protopline makes a 50cc head that works great for your application. Im using it on a 355 with a 200 shot. The heads cc'd at 54cc. You can get a bare set for under 500 bucks..Flow better than vortecs and will support 550HP. Use forged pistons at least..gap the Compression ring at .022 or so. With the small chambers you can get close to 12-1 with a flat top piston smile.gif Which head is that?

Thanks!

BruteSBC,
my experience shows the Vortec heads to be very strong runner, however, there are some issues unique to those heads. First, they do flow very good in stock form, so to attain good improvements over a stock Vortec head requires some experience. They respond very well to a slight valve size increase, they can be angle milled to 58cc, and the ports can be worked, but again, for best results it should be done by an experienced head shop. For a budget street strip engine you will need a high performance valve job, bowls cleaned and blended, ports cleaned of any casting flash, screw in studs and guide plates plus the correct springs for your cam. Of course, this is true no matter what head you run.
I have no experience with NOS requirements but I can tell you about my Vortec head 355 foot brake racer. It's a 1988 Monte Carlo that weighs 3080 with driver. The engine has Manley light weight flat top pistons and with that 58cc chamber, an .016 gasket and close deck clearance it has about 10.6 compression ratio. Also the Super Victor is a good choice with 750 carb. In my opinion, the cam you posted is border line on being too big, however it could work. The cam I run is a Bullet flat tappet with 254 & 256 @ .050 it has .550 lift and runs with .016 lash.
The drive train is a PCT 5800 converter, powerglide with 1.96 low, 4.88 rear gear, 29.5 x 9 M/T tire. It is NOT a street car, in fact it is a very well worked out bracket racer. I shift at 7200 - 7300 and cross the line at about the same. Best performance so far, 1.46 sixty foot, 6.70 in the 1/8th @ 100 MPH, 10.70 @ 124 MPH 1/4 mile.
I like the Vortec head for several reasons. Also, I think there is much bad info [or lack of info] floating around about them. Cost is not a big issue because you will have about the same money in any iron head that runs that well. They are at least 4 - 5 pounds lighter than a Dart of World head [ maybe more ] and granted, a point can be made that a heavier head might be more durable, however, I do not see a Vortec head to be any less durable if it is not mistreated. [example, overheated, that NOS might be an issue?] Also, I like the broad power band the Vortec head gives. They work great on a no e foot brake car. From 2500 RPM on it's ready to fly!
Finally, in the IHRA Crate Motor Stockers a number of racers are running the 330 horse Vortec head engine. In legal stocker trim they run low 11's to high 10's depending on the weight and body combination. I do completely understand that several iron heads are avaliable that would run great. This is just my experience about Vortec's.
Larry Woodfin
Crate Racer

Originally posted by hilljack:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bigjimzlll:
Just say no to the Vortecs....protopline makes a 50cc head that works great for your application. Im using it on a 355 with a 200 shot. The heads cc'd at 54cc. You can get a bare set for under 500 bucks..Flow better than vortecs and will support 550HP. Use forged pistons at least..gap the Compression ring at .022 or so. With the small chambers you can get close to 12-1 with a flat top piston smile.gif Which head is that?

Thanks! </font>[/QUOTE]Part Number: 223 5000 00A A21 Brand: Pro Action by Pro Topline


Special 50cc Combustion Chambers


This auction is for a brand new and in the box pair of race ready Pro Action Iron Lightning cast iron cylinder heads that are assembled for hydraulic or solid lifter cams with up to .600" lift. The heads you are bidding on have 50cc combustion chambers, 200cc intake runners and are the angle plug design heads.

These heads are not seconds or blems, but brand new castings purchased directly from Pro Topline in large quantities and then custom assembled in our machine shop and are ready to bolt on to your engine. Please allow up to 5 business days after your payment is received for the shop to custom assemble your heads.

My Assembled Heads Include:

Elgin 21-4N 1 piece stainless steel 2.02" intake & 1.6" exhaust valves

Hardened valve spring retainers and 7° valve locks

Hardened 3/8" rocker arm studs and 5/16" push rod guide plates

Pioneer 1.260" OD valve springs for up for .600" lift high RPM cams

Valve springs specs: 125# @ 1.850" - 335# @ 1.250 - Coil bind @ 1.150"

Iron Lightning Features:

High performance, high-strength cast iron casting

High flow intake and exhaust ports

Valve angle is 23º (same as stock heads)

Bronze valve guides

Unique multi angled valve seats to outflow the competition

Special-shaped combustion chambers for improved burn

Accepts both center mount and outside flange mount valve covers

The Pro Lightning heads are an great way to bolt on some instant horse power to your street machine or your dirt track, circle track and drag strip race car! Why spend huge dollars on stock light duty casting OE heads with limited air flow when you can bolt on a set of my race ready heads for instant performance.

these are 700.00 complete

Originally posted by bigjimzlll:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hilljack:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bigjimzlll:
Just say no to the Vortecs....protopline makes a 50cc head that works great for your application. Im using it on a 355 with a 200 shot. The heads cc'd at 54cc. You can get a bare set for under 500 bucks..Flow better than vortecs and will support 550HP. Use forged pistons at least..gap the Compression ring at .022 or so. With the small chambers you can get close to 12-1 with a flat top piston smile.gif Which head is that?

Thanks! </font>[/QUOTE]Part Number: 223 5000 00A A21 Brand: Pro Action by Pro Topline


Special 50cc Combustion Chambers


This auction is for a brand new and in the box pair of race ready Pro Action Iron Lightning cast iron cylinder heads that are assembled for hydraulic or solid lifter cams with up to .600" lift. The heads you are bidding on have 50cc combustion chambers, 200cc intake runners and are the angle plug design heads.

These heads are not seconds or blems, but brand new castings purchased directly from Pro Topline in large quantities and then custom assembled in our machine shop and are ready to bolt on to your engine. Please allow up to 5 business days after your payment is received for the shop to custom assemble your heads.

My Assembled Heads Include:

Elgin 21-4N 1 piece stainless steel 2.02" intake & 1.6" exhaust valves

Hardened valve spring retainers and 7° valve locks

Hardened 3/8" rocker arm studs and 5/16" push rod guide plates

Pioneer 1.260" OD valve springs for up for .600" lift high RPM cams

Valve springs specs: 125# @ 1.850" - 335# @ 1.250 - Coil bind @ 1.150"

Iron Lightning Features:

High performance, high-strength cast iron casting

High flow intake and exhaust ports

Valve angle is 23º (same as stock heads)

Bronze valve guides

Unique multi angled valve seats to outflow the competition

Special-shaped combustion chambers for improved burn

Accepts both center mount and outside flange mount valve covers

The Pro Lightning heads are an great way to bolt on some instant horse power to your street machine or your dirt track, circle track and drag strip race car! Why spend huge dollars on stock light duty casting OE heads with limited air flow when you can bolt on a set of my race ready heads for instant performance.

these are 700.00 complete </font>[/QUOTE]Hell of a deal graemlins/thumbsup.gif
graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It makes me no difference which head you want to use, as I am used to working with what head the racer HAS, not telling him he must buy another head to use my cam.
However, the 290/300F was designed for the IMCA's 'Claimer' class, where the engine had to be inexpensive. They have a .500" NET lift rule, and that cam, with its' .525" gross and .500" net lift, is an extremely popular cam. I have sold over 3500 of the 285/295F6, and the 290/300F7 or F8. Many of my professional engine builders buy them 10 at a time, and Monday I had an engine builder call in an order for another 10.
I had a dyno on a 10.5:1 355 with Vortecs and the 290/300F8. It varied about 45 ft lbs of torque from 3500 to 6000, and power peak about 6200-6400.
It will work just fine with 3500 SS converter and 4.10s, and of course, a good fuel system, Carter 172, 1/2" etc, etc, etc...

UDHarold

for the 290/300 cam would i need a vaccume pump? will it effect power breaks and electronics?

thanks

mike

Originally posted by UDHarold:
I had a dyno on a 10.5:1 355 with Vortecs and the 290/300F8. It varied about 45 ft lbs of torque from 3500 to 6000, and power peak about 6200-6400.

UDHarold Digging up an old post.....


What kind of power did that motor put out Harold?

I ask because I am planning on building a screamin' 383 using Vortec's and the 290/300 cam.

What intake would be best on this motor, Performer RPM, Victor Jr, or Super Victor??

Thanks.

Missed this one.
I'd be interested too.

btw, Dart has a small chamber big port head out now. Cost the same as the other Eagle heads at summit.

By the time you swap springs, get guides cut, etc, it's not a lot more money for a 200-215cc port which can be worth up to 40Hp on a 383.

Powerhouse sells the 50 cc chambered heads.

www.enginekits.com (http://www.enginekits.com)

And hasn't somebody, somewhere mentioned that maybe E-brock bought Pro-???

pdq67

Originally posted by pdq67:
Powerhouse sells the 50 cc chambered heads.

www.enginekits.com (http://www.enginekits.com)

And hasn't somebody, somewhere mentioned that maybe E-brock bought Pro-???

pdq67 Word at PRI was Comp bought Pro :(

I thought protopline does not make anything anymore since they went belly-up?

My machinist is next door to powerhouse.
Last I heard, they were working on another supplier for there heads.
Oh yeah, that was from the local head guru. He said the owner had brought a cnc'd al head in to flow test. POS.
Said owner is a businessman, not a hotrodder...

Those Dart's are 49cc, 180-230cc,bare only. $660ish

Originally posted by Tom S:
I thought protopline does not make anything anymore since they went belly-up? =

At the risk of being redundant,,, :D

"Word at PRI was Comp bought Pro" :(

To be clearer,,,
The word at the Performance Racing Industry Show was that Competition Cams bought Pro-Topline but this is second hand so don't take it as gospel.

In other words,,,,
It is rumored that Competition Cams bought Pro-Topline.

BTW Scott,
I think I know the head he was referring to, I was sent one to test & didn't even bother to flow it, just sent it back,,, complete piece of crap,,,

Originally posted by Wolfplace:

BTW Scott,
I think I know the head he was referring to, I was sent one to test & didn't even bother to flow it, just sent it back,,, complete piece of crap,,, Which head was this? When I bought my Pro Topline Iron 200cc/64cc they were supposed to be the best castings short of AFR. Then one of mine cracks and I see lots of complaints about them. I've always thought I should be making more power.

What other news can be told about them? I might be in the market for a new set of heads in the future~!

looks like i should have come here before spending all my money...heading to the shop right now for the first fire on my 355 vortec

Originally posted by Twilightoptics:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wolfplace:

BTW Scott,
I think I know the head he was referring to, I was sent one to test & didn't even bother to flow it, just sent it back,,, complete piece of crap,,, Which head was this? When I bought my Pro Topline Iron 200cc/64cc they were supposed to be the best castings short of AFR. Then one of mine cracks and I see lots of complaints about them. I've always thought I should be making more power.

What other news can be told about them? I might be in the market for a new set of heads in the future~! </font>[/QUOTE]=
It was not a Pro-Topline :D

The experience with the Pros I have had is:
The advertised numbers at about .600 were pretty close.
The low & mid lift numbers are not even close & these are the ones you care about for most applications here.
The numbers at .700 were down from the .600 numbers.
Anyone who tells you they are close to an AFR in stock form is in my opinion,, for lack of a better term,, full of crap. graemlins/sad.gif

The 200cc sets I flowed were actually closer to 207cc. (205-209)
They were a fairly decent head for the money but I wouldn't even consider buying a set complete as I have had to redo the guides on most of the sets I have done & then you have to redo the seats even though Pro says all you need to do is hone the guides (this is crap too) so,,,by the time you fix them & put decent parts in them you have damn near bought a set of AFR's & for an out of the box head the AFR's are pretty nice ;)

I looked at the new Dart castings at the PRI show & they looked very nice for an as cast head.
They would probably be my choice for an aftermarket iron head but I haven't flowed the newer ones yet.
I do not trust advertised flow numbers except from a few head guys & from AFR & Brodix which I have confirmed for myself...

If I use an aluminum head I normally go with AFR or Brodix as the difference in pricing is just not that much over some others & you don't need to mess with them.
Nothing against the other brands, they have been shown to make excellent power,, just my preference ;)

Thanks for the info Mike. Yeah my heads had to have new guides put in after 4000miles. My lift only goes to .566! DOH!

I've got $1300 into them. Do you guys do any portwork? :: wink ::