Does anyone have any experience with the HRpartsNstuff Rear Swaybar / Anti-roll bar? I was checking out their system on their website and it all looks pretty fancy, but system makes sense, but was wondering if anyone had any real-world experience with racing this system?

How does this system look to you guys?

http://webpages.charter.net/seanthomas/antiroll.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/seanthomas/antiroll2.jpg

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48820

Boy, you can't get much better testimony than that!! Sounds like a good addition to any rear suspension.

Great topic Robert! graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I had this exact discussion yesterday while my car was in the chassis shop being evaluated.
Darn nose heavy Chevelles. :(

My '70 weighed:
LF 962
RF 919
LR 729
RR 740
I think I'll order this setup and see how well it really does work.

I've been thinking a good heavy anti-roll bar is what I need too! The one in the links is a little pricey but it has the advantage of being bolted in, not welded.

I've been looking at one on e-bay that welds in.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7914875224&category=33592

I'm thinking seriously about making my own weld in version similar to the one on e-bay. A pretty simple thing to make once you get the hiem joints.

My elky is lifting the right rear on launch and the air bag trick was absolutly no help. I believe the anti-roll bar is just the ticket in my case.

Originally posted by BillsCamino:
Great topic Robert! graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I had this exact discussion yesterday while my car was in the chassis shop being evaluated.
Darn nose heavy Chevelles. :(

My '70 weighed:
LF 962
RF 919
LR 729
RR 740
I think I'll order this setup and see how well it really does work. You better hurry if you want to have it installed before mine ;)

Killer link and info, thanks for posting it. I talked to Dave at HRPartsNStuff earlier today. Good guy! graemlins/thumbsup.gif Lot's of useful info on this setup over at v8buick.com, too.

This setup has come highly recommended to me, and thanks for the link. Further evidence this may just be the ticket for me. Pricey, yes, but it's all about going faster. I posted this to see if any of you had real world experience with it, hopefully it'll work for some of us.

Here's the link:

http://www.hrpartsnstuff.com/

TTT

I couldnt find the price on it, but seems like a worthwhile investment, if its only 450.00 as someone mentioned. Seems like Ed gave 1300.00 for his set up.

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
I couldnt find the price on it, but seems like a worthwhile investment, if its only 450.00 as someone mentioned. Seems like Ed gave 1300.00 for his set up. The price is listed on their website as $459. I'm not sure that I would compare this setup to what Ed is using. The system that Alf built for Ed is a short ladder bar system, so it serve more/different functions than this anti roll bar would serve. If you add up the cost of good springs, shocks, control arms, etc... you can get to $1,300 in a hurry graemlins/sad.gif

I was just razzin Bill with my post earlier. I haven't ordered this system, although it looks like a pretty trick deal. If I were to put this on my car I would have to change mufflers. Note the exhaust system used on there web site shows a center tail pipe connection. My Straight Line Performance mufflers have an offset tail pipe connection that exits towards the frame. It would be right in the way of the spherical rod mount, even using turn downs. Something to consider if you're thinking about this system, IMO. I did talk to them today and they seem to be pretty on the ball, and more importantly honest. They were ademate about what sort of problems this anito roll bar will/won't cure. I think that an often overlooked problem with factory style sway bars is the fact that they bind up the rear at the lower control arms. This system (as well as other anti roll bars) would allow the lower control arms to pivot more at the bushings.

.

KJ...you da' man! graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Those "worn out" stiff walls gave me a 1.599 60' tonight at Dallas...7.03 @ 99.68.
Which just so happened to be T & T night...ricer-roni. tongue.gif
I am gonna order this kit Monday. If it doesn't work out, I'll sell it and have the chassis shop fab me one up...actually they'll do it cheaper but I'm not crazy about the welding involved.
No tail pipes here...turndowns only.

looks like a pretty simple installation, if work's that makes it worth the money.

I have a cheap CE Anti-roll bar in mine and have been tunning it.

Here's a pic of the result.

http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/launchpicture4.bmp

Originally posted by BillsCamino:
Those "worn out" stiff walls gave me a 1.599 60' tonight at Dallas...7.03 @ 99.68.
Bill, that's awesome!!!! Man, I'm glad to hear it. As for that kit, I'm itching to do the same. I've long wanted to put an anti roll bar in my car but didn't want to have to remove the factory gas tank or tail pipes. I may have to fork over the dough for a new set of mufflers and give this thing a try. I think I'll wait and see what it does on your rat and go from there. I'll bet it's worth .05-.1 in 60' on your car smile.gif

in my opinion, if it will take a chevelle well into the low 10'2 or even high 9's $450 is a bargain. friends of mine that seriously race a couple of chevelles believe that once you get into the mid 10's it seems like money well spent is to just put in a ladder bar system and expensive shocks. these cars are now into the high 8's and low 9's though. lots of good info on the buick v-8 board. mike

These are widely used in the TR community. Work very well.

Lots of posts regarding them here. www.turbobuick.com (http://www.turbobuick.com)

www.turbobuicks.com (http://www.turbobuicks.com)

www.t6p.com (http://www.t6p.com)

Just an FYI...
Got on the phone this AM first thing to order this Rear Sway/Anti-roll setup. Bad news...they've got a backlog of one month on orders. Can't make them fast enough.
I wanted to have one in hand and installed by this weekend. :(
I don't have a month...

Yeah, after reading through numerous posts about HRPNS on the Buick boards it seems that they are having trouble keeping up with the demand on this and other parts (typical small business growing pains). Bill, if you like go ahead and order the bar and I'll test it out on my car for you while you're recovering from surgery. If it works I'll buy a replacement and install it on your car while you're laid up :D

Originally posted by kjett:
Bill, if you like go ahead and order the bar and I'll test it out on my car for you while you're recovering from surgery. If it works I'll buy a replacement and install it on your car while you're laid up :D :D
One problem, KJ...
Your car takes a #1451 ('64-'67) and mine is a #1471 ('68-'72).
Difference in frames, I assume. :(
I called back and ordered the kit.
I got to thinking...as a "rebate" I can use the '70s presently installed factory rear swaybar on my '67 which has none.
Two projects for the price of one. ;)

Bill, did you receive the kit yet? I'm HIGHLY interested in how good this is. I tried to log onto the Buick site, but it seems to be down or something.

Anybody at all try this setup yet?

BTW, what size is that anti-roll bar? Originally I thought the kit included the lower control arms, but now I don't think it does. Hmm...not sure if I could afford all of that if it doesn't. Anyone know exactly what is included in the kit?

Yes, the kit came about a week and half ago. Looks awesome!
It does not include rear lower arms. I've already got BMR uppers & lowers on the car. Not sure on the dia. of the bar...I'll measure it and let you know.
I'm home recovering from rotator cuff surgery so no wrenching for me for a while. :rolleyes:
I've also got Global West control arms, tall spindles, and QA1 "R" series 90-10 coil over kit here waiting to be installed.

http://www.appliedracing.com/pages/_frame.html 018951 is the one on my car.It needs to be welded in and is worth every penny.For street driving just pop out 2 bolts and zip tie it up.

Originally posted by fatrat70:
http://www.appliedracing.com/pages/_frame.html 018951 is the one on my car.It needs to be welded in and is worth every penny.For street driving just pop out 2 bolts and zip tie it up. Pat, why would you disconnect the bar for street driving? I leave my Wolfe bar hooked up all the time...no issues with street use.

Todd, I do as well, just seems to come up as an issue from time to time, and was pointing out it is simple to disable.I have driven with it both ways and haven't noticed a difference either way.

Ok, Gotcha :D

What kind of exhaust system you guys(Tod and Pat) run? Size?Muffler brand?Do you have room for full lenght pipes or do you have side exit?
Thanks,
Pete

I myself run a 3 1/2" in/3" out Dr. Gas X-pipe feeding into 3" in/out Dynomax welded Ultraflow mufflers...20" long case. I also custom built tail pipes that go over the rear and exit behind the rear tires...tight fitting the pipe through the coil spring, upper control arm and the anti-roll bar arms.

I just ordered one of the HRP anti-roll bars for my car. Should be here in two weeks. I will be able to get quite a few passes in before the end of the season and will report back my findings. I've also agreed to provide some real A-B-A test data on my results to Paul Ferry at HRP.

Same exhaust as Todd except no tailpipes.Ken once you get that setup you'll love it,no more bags and odd shock settings.

Gentlemen, Since it appears that the sway bar ends are tied to a frame crossmember i wonder how it affects the axle tubes which are only pressed into the center section of the rearend. I've seen these come out unless they were welded. This is kind of tricky as the tubes distort during the welding process.

Originally posted by Harold Sutton:
i wonder how it affects the axle tubes which are only pressed into the center section of the rearend. Harold,
You are correct. That is something to consider but in my case it doesn't apply.
I had my axle tubes welded in a jig before assembly. I also had the housing powdercoated and had Ford type bearing cups installed...no c-clips. ;)

Originally posted by 70_FathomBlueMalibu:
Bill, did you receive the kit yet? I'm HIGHLY interested in how good this is. I tried to log onto the Buick site, but it seems to be down or something.

Anybody at all try this setup yet?

BTW, what size is that anti-roll bar? Originally I thought the kit included the lower control arms, but now I don't think it does. Hmm...not sure if I could afford all of that if it doesn't. Anyone know exactly what is included in the kit? A hacker posted up some nasty stuff on the Buick site, and they had to take it down for a while. I don't go there, but that's the word I got.

Ken, yeah let use know what you come up with. I'll be ready to get started on my rear late this year, or early next spring, and would be interested in finding out how this worked out for you!!

Bill, Good move on the welded axle tubes and "c" clip eliminators. Makes the 12 Bolt rear end a lot safer. I've also heard that there is some kind of side loading of the outer ford type bearings but don't know the particulars if the problem exists. Something about the outer seals leaking grease? Maybe somebody here can elaborate.

Harold,
The 12 bolt has been back under the car for over a year now. First with a 383 small block and then this year with the 540.
No evidence of any leakage. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 70_FathomBlueMalibu:
BTW, what size is that anti-roll bar? Sorry it took so long, Justin...I had forgot to measure it. graemlins/clonk.gif
The bar measures 1.25" in diameter.

Thanks Bill! Still looking forward to hearing how it's performed for some of you guys.

Ok, question. I actually started a post about this in the "Brakes and Suspension" forum, but I'll throw it out to you "Performance" guys as well.

I'll be getting a 1 1/8" front sway bar delivered in the next week. Would this 1 1/4" HRpartsNstuff anti-roll kit work in conjuction with this during daily driving? Or would the rear bar being bigger than the front cause stability problems?

Anybody finally get one installed? I'm also a bit concerned as to where it bolts to the rear frame crossmember. I didn't think anything about the effect on the axle tubes, tho. That very well could be an issue for a few people. I don't have my tubes welded. My whole 12-bolt rear is bone stock, in fact. Hmmm.

I would think the factory triangulated four link design would keep the axle tubes from turning. I've heard many people weld the tubes in completely but have also never heard of the factory plug welds breaking.

This roll bar set up is exactly how the early Ford Mustang roll bars install. Certain kits will locate the frame attachment points to the front, others locate it to the rear. On the Ford setups, the bar is typically located on top of the housing which would allow a shorter end link.

Having had early Mustangs and 9" set ups, I am inclined to think the design has less to do with the set up type and possibly more control because of the sheer size of the bar used and the inward mounting points of the HR bar where the frame mounting points are moved inward as opposed to the A-body mounting points which are located at the extreme of the axle. The difference in mounting location yields a greater torque multiplication at the point of attachment with the stock Chevelle set up. It is feasible that the stock Chevelle mounting points may need a bar as thick as 1-3/8"+ to match the 1-1/4" HR bar to yield an equivalent torque handling capacity.

Iam considering the HR anti roll bar too , but have a question from those who know more ..... as I understand it the complete HR rear suspension package is used by many top running cars but I don't see any mention of using no-hop bars or brackets on the lower control arms to improve the Instant Center is this not an issue ?
HR does mfg longer ( 1/4" ) lower control arms to improve the pinion angle as well as adjusting the uppers ...does this accomplish the same thing ??

I have had one the HR bars on my car all season now and love it! smile.gif The car comes out very level on the launch. And if you ever get out of the groove going down track there is no drama, the car just goes straight. Teamed up with the new transbrake the 60fts have now gone as low as 1.37s. Pinion lasted only about 20 passes off the brake though. graemlins/sad.gif

Originally posted by Babyrat496:
I have had one the HR bars on my car all season now and love it! smile.gif The car comes out very level on the launch. And if you ever get out of the groove going down track there is no drama, the car just goes straight. Teamed up with the new transbrake the 60fts have now gone as low as 1.37s. Pinion lasted only about 20 passes off the brake though. graemlins/sad.gif Bill, can you share the rest of your suspension setup?

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iam considering the HR anti roll bar too , but have a question from those who know more ..... as I understand it the complete HR rear suspension package is used by many top running cars but I don't see any mention of using no-hop bars or brackets on the lower control arms to improve the Instant Center is this not an issue ?
HR does mfg longer ( 1/4" ) lower control arms to improve the pinion angle as well as adjusting the uppers ...does this accomplish the same thing ??


Ok I decided to contact HR with this question...spoke to Ron , in most cases the cars they have their total system on (9sec late model Buicks) do not use an IC bracket or no hop bars but they do recognize some cars may need them ( pbly early A-bodies)....... Ron himself has a prototype set on his car now and they are working on a jig to properly locate the weld on IC brackets to existing HR lower control arms, this jig will be refundable
... although the HR uppers and lowers aren't much different than others on market I am impressed with the bushings and how they are grooved with sleeves to ensure grease can get in unlike alot of the other brands

.......he tells me the 1/4" longer control arms are more for increased tire clearance when slicks grow and could contact the front and rear of wheelwell

I might just go with the whole pkg. Wish I had known about these guys prior to buying my Metco stuff !!

Bill

Ken, Front suspension is stock w/rubber bushings, 307 68 chevelle no AC springs and Koni SPA 1 shocks set on firmest setting. Rear is South Side lowers w/4degrees pinion angle(I think). Uppers are swap meet items that are a beefy stock design with a solid bushing at the frame connection, poly bushing at the rear end. Shocks are good old CE 3 ways set at ????. Springs are the originals. Tires are M/T 29.5 X 10.5W X15s on a 8.5" wide rim.

I want to try 12" wide rims with the W's to flatten the tread out as the car is not as consistant as I would like off the line in the heat of the summer.

P.S. I ordered my bar in Oct. of '03. and recieved it around late March early April of '04.
A long wait-but worth it.

We just installed the HR rearsway/anti roll bar yesterday in my '70. Easy installation, quality product and great instructions. Plenty of room to run tailpipes, too.
Actual results will follow soon...

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/BillsCamino/HRsway.jpg

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/BillsCamino/HRsway1.jpg

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/BillsCamino/HRsway2.jpg

Is an air bag still recommended with a HR sway bar? I notice in the pick there is still one inplace.

BillsCamino, what kind of E.T.'s and 60ft.'s are you laying down presently? I'm still leaning toward the BMR control arms, tho I don't think I'll be able to run this HR rear sway bar...at least not when it's a daily driver with a smaller (1 1/8") front bar.

Originally posted by 70_FathomBlueMalibu:
BillsCamino, what kind of E.T.'s and 60ft.'s are you laying down presently?Best to date before the suspension changes is a 11.03 @ 124.32 with 60' in the lowest 1.7 range. :(
I did manage to get a 1.59 60' one night at a local 1/8 mi. track and ran a 7.02 @ 101.

Oh heck, you're waaaay quicker than me. Either you need a smaller motor or I need a bigger one. tongue.gif

I think BMR's are gonna be it for me. Their price is very nice and I've heard nothing but good things.

Just to resurrect this post one more time...

MY results with the HRP anti sway bar is a POSITIVE one.
I'm very happy with the way my car now responds. Finally got a chance to try it out yesterday at Year One's Commerce Challenge.
Best 60' of the day was a 1.509. Generally before the install, the 60's averaged 1.7X with an occasional (rare) low 1.6/high 1.5.
Also, the car handles TOTALLY different at speed. No more "cork screw" launches or wild, white knuckle runs. I can actually drive this car one handed, literally.
Very satisfied with this product. IMO, money well spent in my case. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Bill,

I'm glad you are happy with the bar, and no doubt it helped straighten out the launch on your car. However, one of the advertised benefits of this bar is added consistency. Yesterday with a brand new set of slicks my car varied from a best of 1.56 to a worst of 1.64 in 60'. I'd hardly call that consistent. In fact, I believe you had a couple of 60' times in the high 1.6x/low 1.7x range too if I'm not mistaken. Each to his own, but personally I'm dissapointed in the performance of this bar on my car. I'll soon be removing my front coil over setup in favor of the factory lower control arms and a drag racing style spring and matching shock. If the car doesn't hook consistently after that I'll be tearing everything off the back and going to a custom ladder bar setup made by Alf Weibe.

Originally posted by kjett:
In fact, I believe you had a couple of 60' times in the high 1.6x/low 1.7x range too if I'm not mistaken.Yeah, I tried to get greedy and continued playing with tire pressures and shock settings to see if I can find it's optimal chassis setup. That's what these T&T sessions are all about.

First 3 runs 60 fts in order:
1.539
1.579
1.509
The improvement between runs 2 & 3 was accomplished just by going up 3 clicks on the rear shocks. The difference between runs 1 & 2 was an increase of 3 clicks on the fronts (which I reset after #2).

The runs 4 & 5 were with the rear shocks up 3 more clicks (total 9) and dropping tires to 15 (was 17).
1.727
1.730

I thought #4 was debris on the track so hot lapped back around for #5, switching lanes. Obviously...was going in the wrong shock setting/tire pressure direction.
I feel the consistency will come to my car with a little more tuning and patience on my part, considering this combo is only a few months old.

The HRP bar gave me EXACTLY what I was looking for in my car...a flat launch and 1000% improvement in down track stability. :cool:
To me, it was an amazing before/after comparison. I've actually got time to focus on other things during the runs instead of just holding on and keeping it off the wall. The car really feels slower!
Personally, in my application, well worth the admission price...

graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/beers.gif i agree