The assembly of the lil rats replacement engine is about to begin. This has been a long process, or at least seemed like it.

Here's some preliminary pics of the parts to be assembled.

http://www.qis.net/~geislert

I'll try and do some updates as the assembly work progresses.

Todd

Looks pretty good. I'm in the same boat (except I've almost completed assembly) and I'm really excited. What kind of coating is that on the pistons? My dad wanted me to get it, but I passed. If it's what I'm thinking though, it's probably similar to what I put on my cam.

My machinist did the coating in house. The skirts are a dry film friction reduction coating. The domes are a special thermal coating specifically for nitrous use. It apparently has a higher temperature rating as compared to the standard thermal barrier coating used.

Lookin good Todd, & as always a nice clean well organized work area. Unlike me I usually end with what looks like a war zone. :eek:

Looking real good Todd! Hope to see you at Cecil this summer. I'll be there with my cousin most Sundays-gonna be a good year!

How large is the new engine-468? Think you'll bust the 10.0 barrier?? :D

Todd,

What kind of spec's is your engine going to have?

CID, SCR, cam , induction, etc.....


Pieces that you have look good. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Makes me wish I had the cash to start a new motor build. :(

nice!!

Todd your shop is too damn clean, spill something in there will ya so we don't all feel so much like slobs LOL

Very nice! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I agree with 505, you gotta spill some oil in there or at least get some finger prints on the cabinets. Its looking like the clean room from Willy Wonka! tongue.gif

Originally posted by 505Nova:
Todd your shop is too damn clean, spill something in there will ya so we don't all feel so much like slobs LOL Heck, my bathroom's not even as clean as that smile.gif

Thanks guys. I'm just glad to be able to finally have a decent motor combination...unlike the previous 414 oddball deal.

Sid, I doubt it'll break into the 9's. I'd really like it to go 10.0's, but have a feeling it won't make it there. I'm guessing it'll run in the 10.20 to 10.30 range at 130-132 mph. I may just have to put a small nitrous kit on it to hit the 10.0 index.


Darren, here's the basic combination.

basic high compression 454. Shooting for a minimum of 13.0 to 1 compression.

- .030 over bore for a ci of 460
- JE (not SRP) 50cc advertised dome piston, profiled domes as well as coated domes & skirts
- Speed Pro 1/16, 1/1/6, 3/32" plasma moly file fit rings, low tension
- Eagle H-beam rods, 6.535" long, ARP2000 rod bolts
- GM 454 steel crank
- GM 454 4 bolt block with ARP main studs
- reusing my old 781 large oval heads, this time upgraded the 2.19 intake valves to 2.25"
- new Bullet valve springs
- Bullet solid roller cam, 262/272 @ .050, 296/306 gross duration, .697/.697 lift, 110 lsa
-reusing my old rockers, vic jr intake, and old Carb Shop 850 carb, B&B race wet sump pan, etc.
- Had the 8" ATI converter reconfigured for the longer stroke, higher compression & larger cubes

I love a clean and organized garage / shop.
Very nice.

Todd,

Looks good! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Keep us posted on how it's going.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ok, I just looked at my garage, which I thought was pretty clean/organized and then I looked at yours again..... :( You win.

Todd I'm going to get some guys together and make a mess in that shop. :mad: WTF do you do surgery in there on the side? :confused: On my best day after cleaning my place is still looks dirty comapred to that. graemlins/sad.gif
That will be a nice ride when done. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

That is the cleanest shop i've ever seen, looks like a dentist's office. Your little "414" ran mid tens, didn't it? I think the bigger motor may just run 10.0s. Maybe a little high gear juice if it doesn't. It shouldn't take more than 50-100, in high gear only, to get a couple of tenths.

Oh come on guys...it's a brand new nouse :D . I haven't had enough time to mess up the shop good. I did burn the paint on the wall by the work bench with grinding sparks, plus several oil stain spots on the concrete. I've got a good start messing it up in only 6 months of being here tongue.gif

Todd you are going to love that 454 with .400 long rods. It acts like a 427 with a bunch more power. I never used a set of ovals but we had good results with a set of 077s with 290cc intake runners. Show us the time slip when it goes 9.99.

Ok, it's very apparent that Todd is rubbing his clean shop in our face. Which isn't so bad, since his shop is SO clean that it leaves my face like it's freshly shaven. Did I mention that I have the luxury of working on mine outside on concrete? Waaaay better than the outside/gravel driveway "shop" I had a few years ago. :rolleyes:

As far as getting together and making that place look like a REAL man's shop....count me in guys. Did anyone notice that the cardboard that Todd used to put the heads on was surgically clean? Whenever I use a piece of cardboard ONCE for a project, it looks like I pulled it out of the ocean after the Exxon Valdez motored thru.

But in all seriousness, it looks great Todd. How much did the coating process set you back, if you don't mind me asking? It looks to me like you're keeping it pretty simple, with a few tricks thrown in. That usually adds up to big power and low E.T.'s.

Keep us posted.

Oh yeah, at least throw down a bucket of those oil-dry granules. Or don't you use oil in your engines? :D

HaHa, you guys are killing me:D

The piston coating cost $160 for all eight coated on the domes & skirts. Pretty reasonable I thought compared to sending them out to different coating sources.

I spent a little time today measuring the combustion cgamber volumes of all 8 cylinders. They turned out larger than I expected (119.5cc smallest, 121cc largest), especially since the machinist told me they were 115cc with the old 2.19 valves. I did grind the chambers in one small spot, but theres simply no way I removed 5cc worth of material...1cc or 1.5cc at most.

I also took time to measure the piston dome volume to verify if it's within the spec JE claims of 50cc. I came up with a volume of 49-50cc, so were real close.

I'm gonna likely have to have the heads milled to get anywhere close to my target compression ratio of 13 to 13.5 to 1 static. need to drop the heads down to 113 to 115cc...dunno how much milling is safe on these 781 castings. Looks like it needs between a .00325 to .0455" cut (assuming .0065" cut per cc for GM open chamber heads?).

I loaded a couple pics to show the cc'ing work...nothing real earth shattering.

Oh yea, the rubbing alcohol I used is green which makes it easy to see during the cc'ing process. The green is a mint scent added which makes for a fresh minty scent in the surgically clean shop :p :D.

Bought a 2400 psi gas power washer Friday and washed the block yesterday. Needed to spend a good deal of time cleaning the water jackets so no more junk falls out during assembly. Looks pretty clean now.

I'm now waiting for the dial bore gauge to get delivered so I can measure the bearing clearances. Then final assembly of the rotating assembly can begin.

Will post more as the work progresses.

Hello,

Very cool Todd. Looks like another great project coming together for your car.

I see you used a tape measure to measure tires in your photos. I am considering the Mickey Thompson radial street slicks and see you picked up a set. Do you have experience with these as they are fairly new....released last fall I think.

Thanks so much, Joe

Hello,

Very cool Todd. Looks like another great project coming together for your car.

I see you used a tape measure to measure tires in your photos. I am considering the Mickey Thompson radial street slicks and see you picked up a set. Do you have experience with these as they are fairly new....released last fall I think.

Thanks so much, Joe

Hey Joe,

No real first hand experience with the M/T drag radials yet. I've ran the BFG's for two seasons with pretty good results. But, this motor is gonna make approx 80+ more hp and well over 100+ ft/lbs of torque more than the previous 414 bbc. I wanna try a new class here locally for normally aspirated drag radial stock suspension cars (in addition to the current 10.0 index DOT class with my local MSRA organization). They mandate a 275/60 tire. If I'm gonna try the smaller tire, then I wanted any advantage I could get. By the reports I've seen on this tire, it's the best possible drag radial you can get in that size.

Hi Todd, thank you.

I am considering the 275's or stuffing a 325 M/T drag radial under my 70. Thanks again.

Hey todd, where did you get your dial bore guage, and how much was it? thnaks!

Cody,

I bought a Mitutoyo 511-166 2" to 6" .0001 dial bore gauge. I found two sources online that sell them for $240-250. One is www.use-enco.com (look under "Hot Deals")and the other is www.penntoolco.com. The problem is both were out of stock. With the season very close (first event April 8th or 9th), I decided to look to Ebay. I bought one for $225 which I wasn't crazy about paying for used, but being in a time crunch, it'll have to do.

It was recommended to me to buy a .0001" resolution as the .0005" aren't graduated fine enough for precise bearing clearance measurement.

I'm told my gauge should be here on Tuesday so further work can then continue.

hth
Todd

little out of my price range, of course you get what you pay for, and i am sure that is a good one.

Just a quick update.

With finishing the ccing of the heads & piston dome an exact compression ratio calculation could be made...lower than expected due to the chambers being 119.5 to 121cc. The final static worked out to be right at 12.5 to 1. I was shooting for 13 to 1 minimum. I dropped the heads back off at the machine shop to have the decks milled. He's gonna sonic check the decks and see how much can be safely milled off. Looks like we need .0325" cut (115cc chamber) to get to 13.25 to 1 and a .0455 cut (113cc chamber) would give me 13.7 to 1. I told him to cut as much as he safely could and not turn the heads in to scrap iron. lol. I'm not worried as he's very conservative and he won't take as much as I'd probably want to.

The dial bore gauge showed up by FedEx today, so I can begin with measuring the rod & main bearing clearances.

If all goes well, I'd like to have the shortblock assembled by Friday and if the heads get done by then, I'd also like to get the top end on by the end of the weekend. We'll see how much gets done here in the next couple days ;)

Todd,
After decking the heads and mocking it up don't forget to check for spark plug to dome clearance.

I'll recheck the piston to valve clearance as well, but it previously had .170" intake and exhaust, so I doubt that'll be any problem. I checked the spark plug clearance during mockup without the head gasket (.039" being used) and the domes easily cleared an extended tip plug. I will be using a non-projected tip plug which will add more clearance. I don't see any of these as being issues, but will check during final assembly.

Just came in from the garage. I was finally able to sort out the main bearing clearances after much work and bearing swapping. Here's how the numbers came out.

1 - 2.7484 - .0026"
2 - 2.7484 - .0026
3 - 2.7484 - .0026/.0029
4 - 2.7484 - .0024/.0025
5 - 2.7480 - .0027/.0029

crank end play - .009"
runout - .002"

crank weight - 67 lbs

oil pump gear end play - .0015"
oil pump pickup depth - 7 9/16"
oil pan inside depth - 8 to 8 1/16"
oil pan gasket thickness - ???

Will measure gasket tomorrow, but I suspect it to be between .090 and .120". I was shooting for a pickup clearance of around 1/2" which this should be pretty close.

I got the crank installed and am ready to start on the rods/pistons (as well as setting the bearing clearances) tomorrow afternoon. I also need to tig weld the pickup on.

more reports to follow...

Just came in from the garage. I was finally able to sort out the main bearing clearances after much work and bearing swapping. Here's how the numbers came out.

1 - 2.7484 - .0026"
2 - 2.7484 - .0026
3 - 2.7484 - .0026/.0029
4 - 2.7484 - .0024/.0025
5 - 2.7480 - .0027/.0029

crank end play - .009"
runout - .002"

crank weight - 67 lbs

oil pump gear end play - .0015"
oil pump pickup depth - 7 9/16"
oil pan inside depth - 8 to 8 1/16"
oil pan gasket thickness - ???

Will measure gasket tomorrow, but I suspect it to be between .090 and .120". I was shooting for a pickup clearance of around 1/2" which this should be pretty close.

I got the crank installed and am ready to start on the rods/pistons (as well as setting the bearing clearances) tomorrow afternoon. I also need to tig weld the pickup on.

more reports to follow...:beers:

Todd, 2 questions;
Is that a typo on the runout? .002" ??
Isn't .009" endplay high?

Looks good! BTW, while I never raced on them ( doh!), the 275/60s with 15 psi and a crude Lakewood ladder bar setup that worked well, were very very sticky. You'd stall the motor if you let the clutch up at anything below 4500-5000 rpms ( with only a 3.31 final and M21 mind you ). Ended up having more than a few cracks on that "nice" L88 7115 crank. Coincidence?

Anyway, the clearances look spot on for the type on duty this mill will see. Least'n to an amatuer like me!

ROCK ON MR. GEISLER!

Jim,

Don't know about the endplay as I couldn't find any spec for it. Not that I can really change it anyway. That's one of the less critical measurements or clearances to me. Rod side clearance is large too at right around .003, but again, nothing I can do to righten that up as it's likely how the rod journals were ground.

I should have not even botherd with the runout, but stuck the elcheapo dial indicator on it anyway. I don't put a whole lot of faith in that gauge, so it's no biggie to me. For a $325 crank, what do you expect ;) Some of the journals aren't perfectly round either...still std/std.

Thanks Gene

I think end play spec is .004-.006??
Rod side clearance on mine was .024". You have .003"?? I assume you meant .030". :D

Man, the 427 is set real "tight" at .015. It was .024-.025" which the machinist said was too loose.( But kept the cam well lubed!) Had a 'fresh' old 6223 crank which alowed him to set it tighter. "Tight keeps more oil on the bearings." Either .030" or .003" are not correct, but I'd prefer a pro reply on that.