fellas, i need some help figuring out these changes this winter. i have a 66 velle ss 396 /360 hp bored .30 over with a performer 2.0 manifold 8to1 compression 750dp hei dist. 3in. flowmaster dumping at rear bumper crane 282 hyd. cam. Changing to .10 more bore, keith black pistons at 10to1 comp. torker 2 manifold crane284 cam and lifter set cam and main bearing set rings high volume oil pump, heads are stock cast with mild port job. I currently run a old borg warner clutch changing to a centerforce and hopefully from a 12 bolt posi to a 9in ford rear. also running with 3.73 gears. also going with a msd 6 al kit all but dist. What can i expect with this and will i see a big difference? thanks in advance :cool:

well i would say this.....if you going to bore it dont cost more to go bigger and the piston dont cost anymore either.....your at a 4.125 bore now go ahead and go to either 4.155 (408ci) or to 4.185 (414ci) and gain some cubic inches...

keith black pistons are fine im running them now in my 414 ci with 10.2 to 1 comp.

the torker 2 intake is fine as well same thing im running too,works just fine from 2500 on up

the cam would be o.k.

i wouldnt go to the 9" your 12 bolt is strong enough for what kinda HP your making i would save that money and spend it else where.

your biggest gain in hp is going to come from the compression increase, your torker 2 and the slightly bigger cam will just move the power band up. you would be in the 2500 to 6500 rpm range.

i have ran this combo:
396 .060 over (408ci)
9.0 to 1 comp.
ported cast heads closed chambered with 2.19/1.88
284 crane cam
torker 2 intake
750 double pumper
summit cheapo headers 1 7/8" prim. tubes
3000 stall th350
3.42 posi
msd 6al box ,hei dist
with a 3800 lbs car it ran 14.00 at 98 mph with open headers

i would stay away from the Torker 2 intake if possible. go with an RPM or RPM Air Gap. if you're never going to run nitrous the KB's are great. 12 bolt rear is more than capable of handling the power, i too would save money on that and spend it on something else.
i'd keep the performer intake before i'd swap to a Torker 2.

what he said ^

dd
thanks for the reply, your combo is very similar but what are you gonna do to bump the et a little more? i would like to get more out of it. what are your hp& torque numbers? I've never been to the track and have no idea what 14 sec 1/4 feels like. after reading all the posts and hearing people talk about 12 sec and better quarter times 14sec sounds slow.
71
i can't go with a rpm manny because of clearance problems with the 66 unless i go with a glass hood and cowl. if you don't like the torker then what else would fit and still be better? :confused:

by the way, what is the advantage of going .60 over vs .40 over? my machinist is skeptical of going more because of weakening the block. the block is an original and i don't know if it is one of the better ones that can take that much bore and still be strong. i understand that some 396's were'nt thick enuff for that. Thanks :confused:

.060 overbore isn't going to be a problem on your 396 or any 396.Most of the older blocks can be bored up to .125 over if it passes a sonic check,so again,.060 over will not be a problem.
BTW,what are your goals for this car? Just a cruiser or is it ever going to the track? I'd stick with a dual plane intake for your car..an Edelbrock Performer will fit under the hood of your 66 just fine.Can't comment on the cam,don't know the specs.And,BTW Hello graemlins/waving.gif to a fellow Chevelle guy from Connecticut

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
And,BTW Hello graemlins/waving.gif to a fellow Chevelle guy from Connecticut Same here smile.gif

I wouldnt think the RPM should cause any interference problems. I think kjett uses one with a stock SS hood. Im not sure if he uses a drop-base air cleaner or not...maybe he'll chime in. I also agree with going .060 over. Might as well now while its gettin rebuilt. BTW,Where are you going for the machinework?

Mr. 4 speed
thanks for the reply and i will have the block sonic tested for more bore and i hope it will be ok. What is the advantage, just more cubes? It will be mainly a street ride but being on this list and others and belonging to ct chevelle club, I can't help but wanting to go to the track and not being embarassed. My machine shop is, Bob's machine, that is bob bruneau, in bristol. He comes highly recomended by almost everyone I talk to in this area. Builds a lot of engines, Chevys, for race teams.
the cam specs are:
crane 284 hyd.
deg. dur: .50 int./exh. 228 for both
advertised deg.284
lobe sep. 112
gross lift .544 both

hello fellas from ct graemlins/beers.gif Have you guys considered joining the club in ct? since i am the newly elected VP. thanks for your help graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/waving.gif

Also, when looking at manifolds it stated that the rpm won't fit on 66s thus was told that the torker is the only other one to improve on what i have. Yes, i do have a drop down K&N air filter.

It is almost embarassing that Edelbrock still sells the Torker 2 as a performance manifold. Although to the credit of Edelbrock's help desk, I know that at least one of my friends was told that just about any other Edelbrock manifold would make more power. What little the Toker 2 might gain over the Performer 2-O in the 5,500 to 6,000 rpm range (a place your combo won't really use anyway) will be unequally offset by the huge torque loss below 4,000 rpm. Either stick with the Performer 2-O, or preferably get the Air Gap provided no clearance issues (I'm not sure how well the Air gap will clear your hood - probably need a good drop base air cleaner and possibly remove hood insulation above air cleaner).

The 9" differential is a paragon of strength, and a costly power robbing addition to the combo you have. I have also heard Chevelle racers say that the dimensional location of the ears and control arm brackets are not as good with the 9" for the suspension geometry as on a 12 bolt (presuming that you plan on using stock style upper and lower control arm suspension). Interesting article in Circle Track magazine this month: they tested a differential using new low friction bearings and seals and polished gear surfaces and gained something like more than 20 hp at the rear wheels!

Thomas

Thomas, was the rear end in that artical a nine inch. I'm looking into a gear change and would love to gain 20 RWHP. That was circle track magazine? Also you know what brand of bearings they used?

Thanks
Aaron

Please,don't waste your money on a sonic check..just bore it to what you need (or .030)
These motors aren't expensive to build.I've run your cam before..Crane used to call it the "Fireball".Its really an outdated grind..theres plenty more cams that will make more power,and not sacrifice street manners/or idle quality.I'm not saying its a bad cam or not to use it,jmo and experience.If you already have it,run it.

If you haven't considered it a mild port job and bigger valves usally helps. I would go .40 over the extra 2-3 cubes wouldn't make much difference and you will still have a .60 over down the road if needed. If the car is well set up high 12s should be within reach.

Aaron, congrats on your e.t.'s - another strong running Kelley El Camino that's for sure!

Most people do not stop to think about the power consumed by drivetrain pieces that much. Sure, they know a TH400 takes more to power than a TH350 - fewer still think about the differential a consumer of power (now if we could only do something about all the people who bought inefficient *performance* torque converters that are seriously wasting their cars performance potential). I might not have guessed that there were ways to prep the same kind of differential and gain over 20 rear wheel hp.

The test car in the Circle Track magazine (December issue) article was a Late Model Modified, they use a Halibrand style quick change differential - something that used to be popular in early street/strip cars that allow easy gear ratio changes with the removal of only a rear cover plate. The featured differential came from http://www.tigerrearend.com - probably a lot more money than you would want to spend. However, the idea of using low friction bearings, seals, and polishing the gear surfaces are all tricks that you can use.

Aarron, your not thinking of a 9" in your '86 are you? All things being equal that swap would slow you down - I do believe the 9" has even more friction area than the Tiger differential, a 9" has way more friction surface area than any of the popular GM differentials. I've also noticed that even a lot of the Ford racers have abandoned the 9" and gone to the Ford 8.8" (which is like a GM 12 bolt) strictly based on getting the most power to the ground.

*Tip* Circle Track magazine has a lot of technical articles that we can apply to our cars.

Thomas

Originally posted by Bomber '67:
Most people do not stop to think about the power consumed by drivetrain pieces that much. Sure, they know a TH400 takes more to power than a TH350 - fewer still think about the differential a consumer of power (now if we could only do something about all the people who bought inefficient *performance* torque converters that are seriously wasting their cars performance potential). I might not have guessed that there were ways to prep the same kind of differential and gain over 20 rear wheel hp.

Aarron, your not thinking of a 9" in your '86 are you? All things being equal that swap would slow you down - I do believe the 9" has even more friction area than the Tiger differential, a 9" has way more friction surface area than any of the popular GM differentials. I've also noticed that even a lot of the Ford racers have abandoned the 9" and gone to the Ford 8.8" (which is like a GM 12 bolt) strictly based on getting the most power to the ground.True story about the torque converters.There is a couple of VERY BIG POPULAR names that Jeggs and Summit sells tons of each and every day because they are inexpensive.People think why should I spend the extra money on a top name companies converter,they are all built the same aren't they...

:eek: NO-DA, WAKE UP!!! graemlins/sad.gif

Converters, think;
http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/products/tc/tc.htm
http://www.transmission-specialties.com/catalog_contents.html
http://www.coanracing.com/Converters/ConvMain.asp

ATI has the Fall/Winter sale going on right now.They have it every year at this same time.I saved about 120 bucks on one last month graemlins/hurray.gif


Some Chevy Class racers with big blocks go to the extreme and remove their 12 bolt to install a Corperate (1973 to about 82) 10bolt,they are almost as strong as a 12bolt in stock form.Of course they beef them up a bit.

I have both for my small block Firebird.One of them is for sale, I won't tell you wich one ;)

Thomas- Thanks for the compliment! Yes I do have a 9 inch diff. While I was putting my EC together I didn't want to build the 7.5 10 bolt that was in it, because I talked to a few racers that broke them pretty quick. So I bought the nine inch from Art Morrison. I don't regert buying it, but 20 horse grabs my attention. I'll email you.

Okay, i just recently bought this car:
1972 Chevelle 350
specs are :
350(.030 over to 355)
TH400(3spd)
11:1 pistons
edelbrock 750
new crank(350)
new rods
comp cam 275 specs are : "490 475 lift"
76cc heads
ported valves
12 bolt with 3.08s
edelbrock high rise intake

i would like to have the best 1/4 drag combo for this but still be able to drive it to school(i have to drive on highway for that)
also i need help choosing gears and which stall to put in graemlins/thumbsup.gif

72Chelelle350-
3.73 gear.
ATI Streetmaster 10inch Standard

Originally posted by Aaron Kelley:
Yes I do have a 9 inch diff. While I was putting my EC together I didn't want to build the 7.5 10 bolt that was in it, because I talked to a few racers that broke them pretty quick. So I bought the nine inch from Art Morrison. I don't regert buying it, but 20 horse grabs my attention. I'll email you. The 20 HP was with the same rear diff,they only changed things in the diff to get the HP difference.

The 9inch's pinion gear is located at a different position on the ring gear,this alone eats more HP.It also weighs more,and has more drag.Strong as hell though.

jhunt, i don't have any experience with hood clearance on a bbc in a pre 68 chevelle. i didn't realize there would be that much difference between your's and my 71. when i had the 454 in my car i had a strip dominator intake an NOS plate and a 4" air cleaner all under the stock flat malibu hood. it didn't occur to me that an RPM would be a problem clearance wise. :confused:
i had a buddy who had a 69 camaro with a 396 and an RPM intake fit under the stock SS hood (not a cowl)on it, i would think that a 66-67 chevelle would have more clearance than the camaro would, maybe not. if the rpm won't fit, you know it's only about a 1/4" taller than the performer i believe, then i'd just run the performer, maybe have a notch cut out in the divider plate might help the topend a little, but i'd research the rpm intake further before i gave up on it. ;)
you can't always go by what Summit or Jeg's says. they told me the Hooker S/C's 1 3/4" sbc headers wouldn't work with my stock starter, yet i have more room now than i did with the 1 5/8" headers i had on it. the tubes don't even come close to the starter. i'd get word from someone who has that intake on a 66-67. smile.gif

thanks guys for all of your replys. They have helped confuse me even more :confused: but thats what I wanted and i do have a better idea of what I'm doing, I think.I have not bought the cam yet or anything else. Just trying to get an idea before purchase. Getting ready to pull the engine and see what needs to be done. Thanks to all graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif will keep you all posted

John H.
66 ss

John,I would say a few people hi-jacked your thread smile.gif
I think a .030 overbore,valve job,a general freshening up and the right cam will get you what you what.You don't need anything fancy or expensive.I built my 454 for $2500 and I've run a best of 12.99 with 2.73 gears thru the exhaust and on drag radials,and after a 129 mile/2.5 hour ride to Lebanon Valley.Since you're a local CT guy,give me a shout if you need any advice 203-407-8304 after 5:00PM..I hate to see a fellow Chevelle guy spend more money than he needs and get less than he expected.

Mr. 4 speed
Thanks for the good advice and I appreciate the kindness. I think I will stick with my original plan of .10 more bore to clean things up and not get into a lot of money with anything radical. Along with the other changes it should be a lot more than I've seen with this car. Give me a call sometime and matbe I can get you to come to one of our Chevelle Club meetings. 860-589-8678
As far as the thread being stolen, it's no big thing since I like hearing fellow chevelle people discuss things with thier cars. I've learned a lot from all of you for the lat 8 mos. of being involved here. Thanks again graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

John,

The RPM manifold will fit as long as you run a dropped air cleaner. Many here at TC are running it on their 66/67 cars with no problem. See my engine pic.

Bill

66BB conv
Thats a sweet looking compartment and i like the way the RPM looks on it. Are you running a 3in. air filter? I have the 3in. K&N filter and I hope it will be OK. Thanks for the info. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

John
66 SS

John, Im interested in joining a local chevelle club. When would be best to contact you for further info about the club? Or if you would like to contact me, my # is 860-202-1505. Thanks.

MR 4 SPEED (Chris),
Regarding the combo in the '70. You have stock 215 heads (I assume no porting whatsoever?). There seems to be a gray area (for me anyway) regarding when it is worth it to put the larger valves in and port the heads. For those of us that want to run warmed over engines not race mills, it would be benficial to hear more from others that are running similar setups.

Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
MR 4 SPEED (Chris),
Regarding the combo in the '70. You have stock 215 heads (I assume no porting whatsoever?). There seems to be a gray area (for me anyway) regarding when it is worth it to put the larger valves in and port the heads. For those of us that want to run warmed over engines not race mills, it would be benficial to hear more from others that are running similar setups. My heads are indeed stock 215 castings with no port work and 2.06/1.72 valves.Stock stamped rockers too.

Originally posted by jhunt:
66BB conv
Are you running a 3in. air filter? I have the 3in. K&N filter and I hope it will be OK. Thanks for the info. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

John
66 SS John,
Thanks for the compliment on the engine, smile.gif I am very happy with the way it turned out. Ed's BSE is a just a screamer. I don't race it, but grabbing 3rd and burning the tires off is just a hoot. tongue.gif

The filter is a 3 inch, the drop base is the trick.
Bill

66BB conv.
Thanks, i do have a drop down air filter and i hope the RPM will work out. That is the performer rpm airgap? I will have to check that out. graemlins/hurray.gif
Juiced
Ihave your # and will get in touch with you. I will tell you that the meetings are held on the first monday of the month. will be in touch. graemlins/beers.gif

John H.
66 SS