I went to start the 68 and it made a gut wrenching awful noise, and after pulling the flywheel cover, the header, and the starter this is what I found:
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/starter-1.jpg

Can someone tell me what happened to cause this type of failure???

I've never seen this problem exactly but I would suspect that it was improperly aligned with the flywheel or even a warped flywheel that hit the starter housing and cut it off.

Thats what I am thinking. I have run this starter for about two years, with no problems, or shims. The only thing I can think of is that possibly the starter became loose and moved... It felt pretty tight when I dropped it...

Was the timing to high,, maybe very hard to turn over when hot?

I'd get a new one and before installing it carefully check the flywheel for trueness and check all the teeth.

Was the timing to high,, maybe very hard to turn over when hot?

Timing should be at 36* with 12* initial.
Can too much timing cause something like this?? It happened when the motor was cold...

I still need too check the flywheel, got my fingers crossed it is ok...

Timing should be at 36* with 12* initial.
Can too much timing cause something like this?? It happened when the motor was cold...


Yes. If the engine kicked back, yes, but 12 initial shouldn't be a problem.

i can tell you exactly why it happened-the teeth were in to tight with the flywheel, every time it engaged it tried to push the starter outward, something had to give-a good chance it bent your bolts also-were they a little loose-i have a gm 502 starter that i broke with almost that same exact piece
when i replaced it, i pulled the sol. off so i could man. push the gear in, and shimmed it with .020 clearance
mine also tore up the flywheel, had to replace it

Brian,are you running a starter brace to the block,if not get one before you break another starter of worse yet break the starter monting area off the block.

BTW,just a side note,if your running an after market per cam the 12 deg initial your running is approx 4-6 deg retarded which will causes power loss, wasted fuel/poor laboring idle/and can also make the motor run a little hotter in traffic and at low speed too.

I see your total is 36 deg you you likely set the timing for the toal letting the initial fall where it may and thats the wrong way to go about it for the multiple performance reasons mentioned above.

With an after market perf cam you should run approx 16-18 initial & have the mech adv in dist limited/recurved for 20 deg in by 2800-3k rpms. Then 20 deg mech in dist + 16-18 deg minitial = 36-38 total which is a good perf ign curve for a street perf sbc/bbc. Also since its a street motor have a vac adv with approx 12-14 additional adv installed for even better throttle resp & fuel economy.

scott

What kind of starter is this? High torque mini? Big style? I am assuming big old style since you had to pull a header?

It doesnt look as big as a old magnet starter. I went through many many starters a while back , because I needed to use a start retard:). All these cheaper(like my old one) starters are made from cast alum. and are very weak. I got a light weight mini,, made with billet alum and is great.
Forcd ind is exactly right,, a medium sized paper clip should fit snug between the gears. Of course with the starter gear pulled out.

Just trying to help,, good luck

What kind of starter is this? High torque mini? Big style? I am assuming big old style since you had to pull a header?

Indeed it is a mini starter. I got it from a place called DB ELECTRICAL, which I have heard good things about. They sent me a new one, no questions asked, when I told them what happened.

Scott, I should of described my timing curve better. I am running an MSD streetfire HEI with their advance kit installed, and the lightest/copper springs also installed. The advance kit gives approximately 24* of mechanical timing at 3000rpms. The catch is the advance kit produces 8* of mechanical advance at 500rpms. So the motor usually idles nicely at 850rpms in park, and so when I put the timing light on there, at idle I have about 20* of timing, 12* initial and the 8* mechanical that comes in at 500rpms. The I always double check to make sure I have 36* at 3000 rpms.

Do I need to change my advance curve, after I get my current starter issue resolved???

I really do not like the mechanical advance coming in before 1000rpms, but that is the way the advance kit is set up from msd.

Thanks for all the help guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed it is a mini starter. I got it from a place called DB ELECTRICAL, which I have heard good things about. They sent me a new one, no questions asked, when I told them what happened.

Scott, I should of described my timing curve better. I am running an MSD streetfire HEI with their advance kit installed, and the lightest/copper springs also installed. The advance kit gives approximately 24* of mechanical timing at 3000rpms. The catch is the advance kit produces 8* of mechanical advance at 500rpms. So the motor usually idles nicely at 850rpms in park, and so when I put the timing light on there, at idle I have about 20* of timing, 12* initial and the 8* mechanical that comes in at 500rpms. The I always double check to make sure I have 36* at 3000 rpms.

Do I need to change my advance curve, after I get my current starter issue resolved???

I really do not like the mechanical advance coming in before 1000rpms, but that is not the way the advance kit is set up from msd.

Thanks for all the help guys!!!!!!!!!!!

I have the same starter from db electrical, and run 16° initial in a fairly stock 350. See my thread about shimming it:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172921&highlight=MINI+STARTER

As you can see, you can't use the typical 1/8" gage to shim the starter. I had to use a 3/16" on mine. Basically, if you place a gage on the armature shaft, you will want it slighly larger than the bottom of the starter gear. Refer to the pic, it's hard for me to explain. I used no shims, and was pretty dead on.

EDIT****

I am not running a brace for the mini, BTW:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169805&highlight=STARTER+BRACE

What kind of starter is this? High torque mini? Big style? I am assuming big old style since you had to pull a header?

Great info Matt.... Thanks...

Great info Matt.... Thanks...

No problem, Brian. The guys @ DB are very nice and helpful. Let me know how you make out.