Guys need your help ...... I am restoring my old 66 BB SS and want to retain the period speed equipment / look/ sound ...... so even though I realize too big will retain the 2" 1969 headers but considering adding Flowmaster 421 scavenge collectors can I assume that these collectors will add some bottom end torque and reduce the gain an X pipe might give.
I would prefer not to use an X pipe mainly to retain the 60's look and sound , however open to all advice for best performance .... this car will go back to the track after a 31 year hibenation! just worried I won't be able to handle it :D

Thanks for moving to this forum

Not a problem.

And I am no expert, I would think the scavenge collectors would do just what you are looking for. Good exhaust flow and yet keep the 'period' sound without the X pipe.

Good Luck.

I hope your right ....... I seem to remeber L88 Gene who uses 2" headers on his ride but installed an x-pipe to improve torque with the 2" headers hoping his thinking applies to my solution ?? anyone else have a theory

Racer1320 tried an X with no improvement in ET. Assuming thats correct, I'd infer the scavenging collectors and the X might serve the same function. Go for it. It won't hurt you for sure.

Bill, you going to use a black ceramic coating on them?

Hey Gene yes they will be coated a dull black ceramic ...we never had that fancy shiny ceramic color when this car ran last so will keep that 60's look and go black, actually back then IIRC they were white when first installed ( paid $75.00 for them new at MAS in Minneapolis but can't remember brand they are true equal length headers a real bundle of snakes .. need to remove one tube to change plugs !!
anyway seems like if I add those collectors and do not use an x pipe or H pipe I still should pick up some torque that hopefully will compensate for the supposedly too large primary pipe headers ...

Key Word - SUPPOSEDLY. All I know is all the 'gurus' thought old red would run 12.90. They were almost a full second off. Peak HEADER torque is around 5200 rpm. The 427 has a 5000-7000 pull that belies its small cubes.

Wanna get the most out of those pipes, RUN a 4.30 gearset buddy! ;)

Hey, can they do the ceramic in white?

Key Word - SUPPOSEDLY.
right on, not that I want to get involved in a controversy but I don't beleive they are that oversized for my combo as you say the 427 likes to rev can't wait to try it with the UD roller

Wanna get the most out of those pipes, [b] RUN a 4.30 gearset buddy

Again right on ... when I got car back had 4:56 in it that it was last raced with... put the original 3:73 r&p back in for now

Hey, can they do the ceramic in white?

... Yes they can, all the colors are a matte finish but they can do white .... they mainly do Motorcycle and snowmobile pipes in black cause those guys want to keep the heat in the pipes to increase velocity

Yeah, I don't want to start anything either. But these motors do make great HP with 2" pipes. Might not be optimal for bracket racing, but...

Hmm, white headers were the deal back then , eh? ;)

You'd be the only one on the showfield with them!

At any rate, I would definitely have the scavenging collectors welded on prior to coating in the color of your choice.

I'm dying to see this car bud! graemlins/beers.gif

You might even kick old red's arse with the 3.73s, but I don't know, 56's whoops, I'd be looking at your arse!

http://www.highperformancecars.com/poisonivory/pipemax1.zip You guys download this and play with it be honest and you'll be surprised what tube size you come up with,and I doubt it will be 1.75 ;)

Collectors should be here this week so will weld them on and get them coated.. Black , white i don't think so a little too retro smile.gif


Gene I really hope I can get this car together in time to bring it down to your Niagra Falls Show, long tow but that's what I shooting for ... chassis is done and in my garage engine just needs assembly ....body on rotator in paint jail :rolleyes:

fatrat ... very very interesting Thanks
.. was not quite sure of valve stem diameter so used .325 and used 6500 as peak rpm
Specs came out
1.968 31.6-34" long prinaries and 3.6" collector 18-24 long
... my "old" headers 2" 34-35" long with very short 3.5 collector the 2" 4-2-1 scavenger collector I ordered is 24" long with a 3.5" collector at end after cutting off my orginal collectors I will end up with approx a 18" collector ..... Hmmm

I'm not saying nothing I'm just going to carry on with my plan graemlins/thumbsup.gif ... this is a fun car anyway I'm too old to get real serious , regardless of header size this thing will pbly scare the s--t out of me anyway...can't wait

Again guys thanks for the help

Hi Bill smile.gif
It's .341

Hey Mike ... .341, damm that will throw everything off pbly have to buy new headers :D

BTW did the heads end up with 2.25 or 2.19 intakes ??

Yep,,,,that .325 is gonna really screw up your calcs, probably have to go to 1.965 :D :D

Valve sizes will be 2.25 x 1.88.
Let me know when you pick em up

And Thanks again graemlins/beers.gif

Here's another Header site to play with.
http://www.headerdesign.com/index.asp
I find the tube sizes a little conservitive but the lengths seem right on.

Bill, I bought Hooker Comp's in 2 inch, and my 439 did 634 hp at 7100 rpm with bent pushrods....lots of them. 2 inch should be dandy!

Again, I think for ET purposes the smaller tubes will provide a peak header torque right near thee converter stall and be a much better fit for most bbc's looking for quickest ET.

Whoa, did I say converter stall!?!?!? ;) WTF is that?

The other calculator I used defintely favored smaller tubes. But again, I don't have a race car, already dropped $400 on coated Hookers and the fit was better than the old small tubes.

MOST IMPORTANTLY Bill, did you say trailer??? Oh brother, IMHO, if I was trailering I wouldn;t have gone Rich5 speed and 3.31s, and would have put 4.30s in right away. As you probably know better than I, clutch cars can hardly ever have enough gear. Anyway, stick with the plan!

MOST IMPORTANTLY Bill, did you say trailer??? Oh brother, IMHO, if I was trailering I wouldn;t have gone Rich5 speed and 3.31s, and would have put 4.30s in right away. As you probably know better than I, clutch cars can hardly ever have enough gear. Anyway, stick with the plan!

trailer I know I know ....but its a 2-3 day drive from here to NY and this is a Radio / Heater Delete car, no way for me and yes I won't be surprised to find I go up in gear .gotta get it together first though

As you probably know better than I, clutch cars can hardly ever have enough gear. Not sure if I am asking this question correctly, but, how much more gear do you have to run with a stick car to be equivalent to that of an automatic? I have always heard that a manual tranny car needs more gear, is this true? :confused:

Darren ..... yes that's what i had always heard too ...however that might be from the days when there was not much selection for 1st gear ratio's in the factory 4spd .....auto's had lower 1st gears and faster torque multiplication eg the "glide"
.....nowadays with the selection of manual trans gearsets not sure the spread is as significant

But I remember way back similars cars in stock eliminator could run approx 10% less rear gear than same car with manual and et the same FWIW

Darren, this is still conjecture by me, I don't have the experience, but...

right now I'm running a 10.06:1 1st gear ratio, and man, I could use more. I think the reason is that the gearing is the ONLY torque multiplication you have, no viscous coupling, aka torque converter. Another reason 5-6 speed gearboxes are so popular among newer cars. 4 speeds are relics for sure.

Most sub 11 second manual trans car I know of run wicked gears.

I always thought that you had to gear a manual car a little more than an auto to be equivalent, but wasn't sure if this was an old wives tale. I was under the impression that with a "good" torque converter that the torque multiplication of an automatic was quite abit more than just the 1st gear of the transmission.

I have been trying to decide weather to take a little gear out of mine,(maybe 3.90 or 4.10) but with the 4.30's and 29" tires seems just about perfect for my setup. graemlins/thumbsup.gif