I have been reading over at www.schubeckracing.com (http://www.schubeckracing.com) and was wondering if the composite flat tappet solid lifters will really do what is claimed. They seem awfully expensive at first, until I add up what the cam I lost last year cost me. I have been sweating cam break-in(cam loss anxiety) on the 496 I am slowly putting together. I have thought about buying some break-in rockers but the cost of a set of break-in rockers and a set of new lifters will be real close to the price of the schubeck's. I was wanting to here some thoughts on the drop in, increase the spring rate if you want and drive through several cams claims the site makes. How long would a set of these last? A couple of cams? or can I pass these down to my grandchildren smile.gif I believe in if "it sounds to good to be true..." but I would like to know what others think. After all the money I have spent so far, if these things work like they claim those few more hundred might be worth the peace of mind.
Sorry for the long post
Caleb

CALEB
I build a lot of circle track engines in the Northeast and thats what I have been using the last 2 years with no problems. We run 180 at the seat and over the nose pressure is 460 with P-55
cores and we have had to use no break in rockers or lite springs just get running up to 2500 rpm for the first 45 minuts. We also are correcting the lifter bores to .875 or .904 depending on the application.

when we take them apart for a refresh the lifters don't show any signs of even being run so I think you might be able to pass them on to your grand children

You may not need that much seat pressure or over the nose pressure on your application.

I had a set; sent them back and received a 20% handling charge. They physically wouldn't even fit in the lifter bores of my engine; they wanted to turn them down to fit which I was not going to do. The solids are also 2-piece and I have heard of some coming apart. I was not impressed.

Jody

Jody, you have the first bad experience that I have heard of with these. Locally I understand some of the offshore power boat guys really like the Schubeck stuff - but I have no direct experience with Schubeck on any of my engines.

Thomas

Originally posted by Bomber '67:
Jody, you have the first bad experience that I have heard of with these. Locally I understand some of the offshore power boat guys really like the Schubeck stuff - but I have no direct experience with Schubeck on any of my engines.

Thomas Thomas,

Never really got to try them. Had heard some bad reports. My issue was that since I told him I was running an Arias block and they wouldn't even physically fit, he should not have charged a handling charge to return them. I didn't feel real good about having them cut down.

Jody

My buddy's Nova runs them has no problems at all. He drove the 500+ horsepower car to vegas and back in August and did some track passes there w/o valve float and w/o adjusting valve lash. No complaints from him.

$720 for flat solid lifters, Wow, I hope your grandchildren get use out of them. :(

For a flat tappet cam they are probably the last set of lifters you will have to buy.
We have changed cams, run spring pressure in the 180/400+ range on these things on four different cams in the same block without a mark.
Basicly no break in just put them in & run em'
But,,,,cheap they ain't :D
We normally use the .875's & hone the lifter bores anyway so I can't comment on the fit problem except to say I did put a set in an aluminium gm block & they dropped in no problem.
Just for info I have gotten Dart blocks that I had to hone for standard type lifters & the instructions that come with the block tell you to check em as they are at the low side of clearance so you can fit the lifters to your specs.

Jody,
Just curious but were the lifters actually made to big for a standard application or was the block on the small side?
You said Arias, what was the lifter size supposed to be?

Mike, the Arias is set-up for rollers. The roller lifters have a slightly smaller o.d. than a flat tappet does. The lifters were .842 as was the lifter bore, so there was no clearance for them to run in. The rollers fit fine with a thou or so clearance as I remember.

Of course I didn't know the Arias was setup for rollers only (although they could have been honed for clearance). Problem was I already had many hours in assembling the short block and did not want to have to pull it back apart. Apparently Schubeck didn't know that either, but when I ordered them I told him exactly what I had and he told me he'd used them in the Arias before. Like I said, it was more irritating than anything else to give the correct info and still be punished, nothing more than that.

Of course after I bought them I received a few e-mails warning me of failures, ends falling out, etc. So I was nervous to begin with and didn't want them machined to fit.

By the way, how far from Sacto are you? I am looking for a good machine shop that is comfortable with high end stuff.

Jody

I have not heard much about composite lifters, but with all the new composite materials out there I do believe it is possible for them to live up to their claims. However if the lifters are as great as Schubeck claims, why no lifetime warrantee? Seems to me that would be a great marketing point, and would give a lot of people more confidence in buying them.

Later
Steve

Jody,
I am about 3 hours from Sac.
If you look on a map we are about 40 minutes north of Hwy 20 on 101.
5 to 20 to 101 north to Laytonville
Where is Wilton??

Steve,
Lifetime guarentee on performance parts??
I've got this bridge about 2.5 hours south of me that goes into San Francisco I'd like to give you a real good deal on,,,Just send a small deposit to me c/o general delivery,,,,,,, :D :D

Thanks for all the responses...I believe I might take the plunge just for the peace of mind and to get away from buying some break-in rocker arms(something I planned on anyway) and changing valve springs. When my 396 lost a couple of lifters it took the crank and all bearings with it. I spent over 600 putting it back together plus the cost of a new cam and lifters(not including price of wasted cam/lifters). If spending these extra few hundred on my 496 will save the headache of possibly ruining the callies crank, scat rods, srp pistons, or the holley heads, I see it as well spent considering the coin I have already plunked down and not having to sweat break-in as much is always a plus.
Thanks again everyone for the responses
Caleb
Caleb

It would be a first!

This bridge of yours, it have a lifetime guarantee? :D

Later
Steve

what type of ramps do you run with them?

Of the shelf UD roller grinds?

Originally posted by hilljack:
what type of ramps do you run with them?

Of the shelf UD roller grinds? I think they're talking about the flat tappet lifters. Schubecks radiused lifters work only on his specific cams, they will not work on a normal roller camshaft. Figure $1500 for cam and lifters. The flat tappets will work on a standard solid lifter cam.

Jody

Looking at the math here, why wouldnt you just do with a roller lifter, or is it a engine that will see 10-15K per year or more? I should think oil bleed lifters, and outer spring break-in would be fine. If I was looking at a set of $725 lifters, I would have bought Isky or Crower rollers and had a small custom cam done to my specs. 245/253, .630/.660, etc/. Less in cost and a bit more HP. ( like maybe +50!) IMHO, of course.

I do not want to go roller. The heads are already set up to go flat tappet and I plan on this being real close to a daily driver when finished, so I do not want a solid roller to have to worry about trashing roller needle bearings in stop and go traffic or a hyd roller because I think a good solid flat tappet will outperform a hyd roller and save valvetrain weight. Keep the info coming.
Caleb

Since you all asked for my advice, here it is....

I have had racers using Schubeck lifters for about as many years as he has had them out. I have never heard of a failure of cam or lifters from anyone using the Schubeck lifters.
HOWEVER, I do not warrantee cams that fail while using Schubeck lifters. So far I have not been asked to, but whenever a person tells me they will use Schubecks, I always tell them the cam has no warrantee from me. If it fails, I tell them to send it to Schubeck. Why?
He has consistently told racers they can use 180 lbs to 200+ lbs on the seat, and 400+ lbs on the nose, even over 450 lbs. Under no circumstances would I say this will work, nose pressure, etc, always too high. If a cam wipes out using Schubeck's advice, then he should warrantee it.

Enough said on that point.
Everyone should remember that, in flat tappet cams, his lifters give no magical properties to the lift curve. I will not design a solid lifter cam that runs off the edge of a tappet, I have a certain minimum distance that I will approach the edge. Whether you run his $700+ solid lifters, or a set of Melling 992s, you get the identical lift curve.
What about his special 'roller' solid lifters? they have a 1" radius on the bottom, and to use them, you have to have a cam design cut-out for a 2" diameter roller lifter. Using them on a normal roller cam will give you a cam lift curve unrelated to what you had, except max lift....
These are all facts. At the same time, I have had racers use the same set of lifters on mutiple cams, without break-in, and no failure. At failure, send the cam to Schubeck.....

UDHarold

For a daily driver, well, I went for the durability of a flat tappet just for some "pro-touring" 500+ mile runs once in a while. For sure flat tappets are the correct answer.