I've been bouncing the idea around in my head about replacing the kitchen laminate with Pergo to match the cabinets. Is this something I can do by myself with ease or should I have someone come in and do it for me?If I do it myself am I going to have to buy a lot of extra tools to finish the job?

If you already have a chopsaw, you'll just need a good blade for it. For the rest of the installation, some good blocks of hardwood, and flat edged prybar with a chunk of square stock welded across it for tapping/pulling the end pieces in are about all the special tools you'll need for a basic install. They do sell the prybar with an installation kit, but if you've got a welder and an old prybar laying around, the choice is yours. :) Just make sure wherever you buy the laminate that they're going to have matching edge molding and transition molding for it. I see people buying laminate from wholesales stores like Costco and Sam's Club, which offer none of the aforementioned moldings, and wonder how they're going to finish them, except for regular cove base or some non-matching wood moldings. Pergo is good about having the moldings available, albiet pricey.

Not trying to steer you in another direction, but you may want to consider ceramic tile. I put ceramic in my kitchen and laminate in the rest of my house a few years and I am really disappointed in how the laminate has held up. It's scratched, scuffed, bubbled in a few areas from getting wet, and just plain ugly now. In the near future I'll be pulling it all up and putting ceramic in the rest of my house.

I've thought about putting in Ceramic tile but I'm only going to be staying in this house for another 3-4 more years till I either buy another one or move.

You need to think about renting a saw to cut the bottom of the door trim and frame. This is a special circular saw that sits on it's side so the blade is actually parallel with the floor. You can adjust it to the height you need to get the new flooring under the door trim. If you don't cut the door trim and just install the floor around it you'll be able to notice and it'll look kind of crappy. Other than that it's not real difficult. When you buy the material at say Lowes or Home Depot ask them about the install and they'll be happy to explain exactly how to install it. They'll even give you the formula for determining the first board width. I can explain it as well if you want.

One thing I don't like about the laminates is that the plank is 6" wide and the visual board is 2" (3 boards across) and then when you install it you can tell instantly that it is laminate because the splice runs across 3 "boards"

LK

Go with a Porcelain Tile. I know it is more expensive, but in 4 years the floor will still look great and you will only add value to your house. You will get that money back and then some when your house is sold.

Another vote for tile here but then I'm a bit biased because I've been installing it for a living for the last 21 years. ;) A year ago we bought an old mid 70's mobile home that needed a lot of work. I replaced all the floors from one end to the other with a combination of laminate and ceramic. I'm not very happy with how the lminate is wearing after only a year, even though I like the look. A lot of it will be coming out very soon to be replaced with ceramic. I should've done the whole place in ceramic before we moved in but I wanted to see what the laminate was like. I'm not impressed

Ceramic will raise the value of your home higher than Pergo will, and as stated will hold up longer. Should you still decide to go with Pergo, Floating floors are the most simplistic design and are very user friendly to install. As stated, you can get an install kit for about 25-30 bucks and if you've got a compound mitre you're golden. :thumbsup:

Hey Dave, I do not know how big your kitchen is or how much money you are wanting to spend, but we sell an awful lot of laminate, I would challenge the previous poster that says it will depreciate the value of your home. I will not take the time to to counter his post with facts. You can go to Wilsonart Floorings website for yourself. I will though offer this, go to a local mom and pop's floor covering store and talk with them about what you want to do. Edd

Im pretty much set with the Pergo in the kitchen. I found some that will match my cabinets and my friend down the streets coming over to help me with the install. I'm still undecided with the bathrooms, not sure if I want to replace the laminate or go tile. Its pretty much dependant on how much money I have left after we do the kitchen. I appreciate all the replys :beers:

I agree with previous posters about the value of pergo. When we were shopping for houses we looked at quite a few that had pergo in them and immedietely walked away from them. One reason is that pergo does not look or feel or sound anything like real hardwood floors, it lloks cheap, feels like plastic and sounds hollow and flimsy. Second, any house that we saw pergo in I would immedietely start questioning the quality of the rest of the materials in the house, if they are using junk flooring, what kind of windows are in it and such?

Personally I think you will regret using the pergo when it does come time to sell.

By the way, I build homes for a living, so I have a fair idea as to what adds value to homes. Cheap flooring does not add value to a home.

Jeff

I agree with previous posters about the value of pergo. When we were shopping for houses we looked at quite a few that had pergo in them and immedietely walked away from them. One reason is that pergo does not look or feel or sound anything like real hardwood floors, it lloks cheap, feels like plastic and sounds hollow and flimsy. Second, any house that we saw pergo in I would immedietely start questioning the quality of the rest of the materials in the house, if they are using junk flooring, what kind of windows are in it and such?

Personally I think you will regret using the pergo when it does come time to sell.

By the way, I build homes for a living, so I have a fair idea as to what adds value to homes. Cheap flooring does not add value to a home.

Jeff
You are 100% correct.

I agree with those that are suggesting tile but it appears as though you have decided on Laminate. I really don't think it matters what is on the floor as far as resale value as long as what you have in place at the time of sale is in good shape. If you have ceramic and it looks like crap people will be turned off just as they would be by laminate or vinyl that looks dated or worn. One thing to remember with Laminate is that it is a floating system and therefore must be permitted to expand and contract that is why you will have to undercut door jambs etc. An expansion space must be provided against all vertical surfaces. as far as a saw you can buy a manual undercut saw for a few bucks. Just turn a piece of the laminate upside down for a hight guage and let your saw ride back and forth across it as you cut,however the first nail you cut across and your blade is junk. The power undercut saws have a carbide blade that goes right through nails etc. I own one as I did floors for a living for 25 years they are definately a time saver. They can be rented at Home Depot etc. Just rent one for 4 hours and plan ahead so you can make all your undercuts at one time.

Originally I wanted to put ceramic tiles throught my house but would I have to put any support underneath the house to keep it from warping?

Nothing to keep it from warping. Do you have cement or wood floors? Concrete is easier. Just have to use a crack suppression system where there is cracks in concrete. Wood is different. You must have sufficient floor structure to keep tiles and grout from cracking. Alot comes into it. What size floor joists/ How far are the spans from their supports. I would also highly reccomend a subfloor specicically for ceramic such as concrete board or Shuster system, otherwise you could be in for a rude suprise a few months after installation.

Nothing to keep it from warping. Do you have cement or wood floors? Concrete is easier. Just have to use a crack suppression system where there is cracks in concrete. Wood is different. You must have sufficient floor structure to keep tiles and grout from cracking. Alot comes into it. What size floor joists/ How far are the spans from their supports. I would also highly reccomend a subfloor specicically for ceramic such as concrete board or Shuster system, otherwise you could be in for a rude suprise a few months after installation.

Just pulled some of the linoleum up in the kichen, I have cement.

I went with tile and couldn't be happier. It wasn't really too expensive either, even using hardibacker under the tile. The rest of the house has 3/4" oak floors, so I wanted something different in the kitchen and bath. I didn't like the way pergo looked either.

I went with tile and couldn't be happier. It wasn't really too expensive either, even using hardibacker under the tile. The rest of the house has 3/4" oak floors, so I wanted something different in the kitchen and bath. I didn't like the way pergo looked either.

Curious how much did you spend on the project? I have about 2500 dollars to finish the Kitchen and Bathroom floors.

Definately tile in the kitchen. It was the first thing we did when we moved in in 1985. Easier to install and joints are sealed tight and level.

Make sure the floors are relatively level, use 1/4" tile board (tan stuff cuts with a Stanley knife). Get big squares (12") to minimize joints, if you shop sales you can get them for $1.50 per tile, even at full price shouldn't be as much as laminate flooring and is more forgiving during the install. Do a practice layout to minimize cuts. Rent a good diamond saw and they cut like butter. Start in the middle with two perpendicular lines. Mix mastic per instructions and use a notched trowel. Use the rubber spacers of get a 1/4 joint. Use a level to make sure they are flush with each other. Don't sweat getting the joint lines perfect, nice thing about the human eye is it corrects and aligns geometric patterns (old architect trick). If you go with a stone or clay (unfired) make sure you seal before install to minimize cleanup during grouting. With proper prep you should be able to do a kitchen in one day. Also remember that you will probably have a wood base to cover the edges at the walls and cabinets so the cuts do not need to be precise. As with the wood, you will probably have to cut up the door jambs and make or buy a transition piece into other rooms.

Let the tile set for a day then grout. Pick a color that is a medium tone, if it's to light the dirt will show. If ceramic use a rubber trowel, let it set up a while and wipe with damp sponge. If stone use a cloth funnel and only do the joints to minimize clean up. Dry some more and keep wiping, take care not to pull the grout out of the joints. After its dry mop a couple of times to get the haze off and buff with cotton towel. If grout haze is stubborn or sets to long use a 10% muratic acid in a spray bottle and soft bristle brush, it will come right off (use gloves, long sleeves and eye protection).

Good luck, floors and counter tops are easy. Next you can graduate to showers and tub surrounds. Patrick

Curious how much did you spend on the project? I have about 2500 dollars to finish the Kitchen and Bathroom floors.

How big is your kitchen and bathroom? $2500 doing it yourself should be a fairly easy budget to work with-in as long as you shop around a bit. The box stores have some really good tile sales pretty often, you can get tile for $1 psf or less quite often. If you have cement floors you may need to get soe self leveler depending on how flat the floors are, but other than that it is mud and grout for the most part. Obviously you would need to buy spacers and a few tools, but you can rent a wet saw, and sponges and trowels and grout spreaders don't add up to that much. You don't need the best tools if you are only going to be doing this one job.

Jeff

My bathrooms are roughly 30 square feet each and my Kitchen is roughly 175 square feet with the attached laundry room. I was cruising around Harbour Freight the other day most likely where I will get my tools I need since they are cheaper.

I would not recommend any kind of Pergo type laminate flooring. For a floating floor over concrete, I would recommend some of full wood laminates. They don't have the hollow clicky sound that Pergo type products have. If you do end up going with Pergo, I recommend spending the extra money on the felt padding instead of the foam. It cuts down on the noise. I think they call it "Quiet walk" or something like that.

I am a hardwood flooring contractor and I have installed Pergo in the past. If you need something to cut under door jambs I recommend this. (http://toolsforless.com/product/898.html)

I use mine all the time and they work great. The older jamb saws can really chew up a door jamb and fingers if you are not used to using one. When it comes to cutting the actual laminate floor on your miter saw, you want to use the cheapest brand new blade that you can get. Laminate flooring instantly dulls a blade and it will be worthless when you are done. For your rip cuts, I recommend using a jigsaw instead of a table saw. For one, it will ruin the blade on the table saw which is expensive, and unless you have a lot of experience with table saw, a jigsaw is much safer.

Is Pergo waterproof? I was told not to use it in kitchen and bath. Is this right? Pergo and the other laminates look like some kind of high density fiber board on the cut off edges.

Not at all waterproof. If you spill a glass of water on it from the top and wipe it up immediately you may not have any ill effects. However ley some water get down between the edge and the mandatory expansion space and it will blow up like a balloon.

Is Pergo waterproof? I was told not to use it in kitchen and bath. Is this right? Pergo and the other laminates look like some kind of high density fiber board on the cut off edges.

They sell Pergo under idea that it has a built in memory, which supposedly means it will swell up with water but go back to almost normal when it dries out. I don't believe it and have never witnessed it.

It's just like anything else. They want to sell you the product. As with most things, you should talk to someone that has done the installations and has no monetary interest in where their opinion of the product lies.

yeah, I think I'm going to go with this Universal Flooring 9/16" stuff. it has actual wood on top, over 1/8" thick. That would be able to be sanded and refinished. no particle board in it.

I have concrete slab under carpet, I've got to make up my mind whether to go with a glue down or a floater. Glue down is the current favorite.

yeah, I think I'm going to go with this Universal Flooring 9/16" stuff. it has actual wood on top, over 1/8" thick. That would be able to be sanded and refinished. no particle board in it.

I have concrete slab under carpet, I've got to make up my mind whether to go with a glue down or a floater. Glue down is the current favorite.

Whats the benefits of glue down over going with a floater?

My kitchen is small, so it only ran around 300 or so. The bathroom was about 130. I used ceramic in both. The hardibacker was more than the tile from what I can remember. I think the tile was about 0.63/Sq. Ft. at Home Depot.

I had a laminate wood floor put in my new housse and it looks great. being a new house there wasn't any worries about fitting to old molding. One thing you might consider is what is popular for your area. diffferent parts of the country tend to have different tastes
just a thought

I had a laminate wood floor put in my new housse and it looks great. being a new house there wasn't any worries about fitting to old molding. One thing you might consider is what is popular for your area. diffferent parts of the country tend to have different tastes
just a thought

Laminate is extremelly popular in this area because its a military town and people generally don't stay in their homes for very long. Its cheap and easy to replace.

gluedown is supposed to not have that hollow sound. I'm also thinking it might be a little more forgiving of irregularities in the slab. I doubt it's very flat and the people want it within 3/16".

I put down laminate in the kitchen last year. It looks like tile not wood. I'm impressed with how good it looks and so far no scratches or nicks in it.

I wouldn't put down laminate or real wood that looks like the cabinets, just don't think it would look right. Your cabinets will blend right into the floor. You need some contrast between the floor and the cabinets. Not that I'm an interior decorator, just my opinion.

I've had both.

We did laminate in my last house and I hated that hollow sound when walking across it. It looked ok but it looked like laminate. Very durable best I could tell.

Our current house had laminate in it when we bought it and had that friggin' hollow sound and you could definitely tell how uneven the floor was to walk on it. I'm sure the homeowner installed it himself. We had a dishwasher leak under it and it definitely warped. I would not have any type of wood in the kitchen for that reason.

We paid someone for the install. I didn't want to mess this up andthere was no way I was tackling a job that size laid on the diagonal. We went with 19" tile in the living/kitchen/entry and love it. I think it looks great and was a giant improvement in my opinion over the previous "wood" laminate. We went with a real wood laminate in the dining/office. I believe it was 9/16 and had it done as a glue down. The installer didn't do a great job floating under the wood and it had a couple of hollow spots that they fixed. I don't think glue fills voids like thinset. My key learning was it's imperative the floor is level.

All in all,in my opinion, the "real" wood flooring looks 200% better than the plastiwood. Kind of pricey though.

I've been talking to my buddy thats was going to help me with. Now I've just decided to let the guy who does it professionaly up the street lay the tile for me. Just curious how much its gonna end up costing me :confused: thanks for everyones opinions!

Seems like it was $2.25/ft for installation inclusive of grout and thinset. That seemed like a pretty good price to me. Float was probably $40/bag.

Seems like it was $2.25/ft for installation inclusive of grout and thinset. That seemed like a pretty good price to me. Float was probably $40/bag.

That's a killer price if the mud and grout is included. I won't charge less than $2.50 a sq ft (labor only) unless it's for a buddy. The going rate up here is between $2.50-$3.50 sq ft for labor only. Just a word of warning on cheap tile though. Be very carefull because you get what you pay for. ;) One of the best things you can do when shopping for tile is open up a box and stand them on end to see how the sizing is. I've seen cheap stuff that are up to an eighth of an inch different in size and also out of square. That makes it really tough to do a nice layout without going to a really wide grout joint to make up for lousy sizing. ;)

I hope this helps.

Being an insurance adjuster I get to see what holds up and what doesnt.

Pergo-types will get murdered by water contact. But honestly, just about any kind of wood product won't hold up against water. Granted, your 3/4" Bruce floor will do better, but in the end tile should be used in wet locations...if you consider a kitchen a wet location.

I just did my laundry room w/Pergo and I love it. The Pergo floors now have the the foam/underlayment built into the back of the boards now...makes installation a snap.

I will say this about laminite flooring (Pergo and the like): if you do go with laminite, make sure you use a brand name like Pergo or Armstrong. The cheap stuff like 1.99/sf is absolutely no good! Falls apart almost immediatly...w/o water even touching it! I seen it!!!

If you do go w/Pergo, just make sure if you have any spills to clean it up promptly. What happens w/these laminites is that the swell-up from soaking up the water.

Update on the water issue. I responded earlier about installing a laminate that looks like tile. Not smooth porcelain, more like a stone with color variations. The surface and grout lines are embossed so the surface does look real.

As far as the water. Well we have an automatic coffee maker. The grounds are in a swing out basket. It must not have latched closed last night. 1/2 cup of coffee in the pot, the other 9 1/2 ran on to the counter and over the edge. I was surprised the puddle wasn't bigger for 9 & 1/2 cups. Well my wife found the rest later in the basement. It ran over to the wall and went through the sub-floor at the wall. No visible swelling or buckling of the floor. Can't tell at this point that even a drop of water hit the floor and it sat there for over a half hour. Dupont Soft Touch Elite, comes with the foam backing attached.

yeah, I think I'm going to go with this Universal Flooring 9/16" stuff. it has actual wood on top, over 1/8" thick. That would be able to be sanded and refinished. no particle board in it.

I have concrete slab under carpet, I've got to make up my mind whether to go with a glue down or a floater. Glue down is the current favorite.

Hi Tom, that is referred to as a engineered wood floor & is a GREAT choice for installation over a slab.. Just make sure to buy a floor with a thick enough wear layer (top wood layer) ESPECIALLY if you intend on gluing it down..

The brand of engineered hardwood I would recommend is Mirage, they make the best product on the market, but it would have to be glued down as it can not be floated.. Other good manufacturers would be BR 111 or Kahrs Hardwood(among others).


As far as laminates are concerned, it's like anything else.. There are good quality ones, and there are cheap floors.. Generally speaking, if you go to a big box or discount store and buy the .99 special, I can guarantee you that you will not be happy with it in the long run..

Unless you are just looking to freshen the place up to put on the market, you need to look for a good quality laminate floor THAT COMES WITH A MOISTURE WARRANTY... Only the better floors will have this, they use a moisture resistant core that helps retain stability..We have had great success with the brand Quickstep..

And one last thought to keep in mind is that the ONLY two floors that will actually add value to your home are ceramic tile and hardwood floors (includes engineered hardwood floors).. Any other flooring choices are considered replaceable and are likely to be torn out upon sale of the home..

Update on the water issue. I responded earlier about installing a laminate that looks like tile. Not smooth porcelain, more like a stone with color variations. The surface and grout lines are embossed so the surface does look real.

As far as the water. Well we have an automatic coffee maker. The grounds are in a swing out basket. It must not have latched closed last night. 1/2 cup of coffee in the pot, the other 9 1/2 ran on to the counter and over the edge. I was surprised the puddle wasn't bigger for 9 & 1/2 cups. Well my wife found the rest later in the basement. It ran over to the wall and went through the sub-floor at the wall. No visible swelling or buckling of the floor. Can't tell at this point that even a drop of water hit the floor and it sat there for over a half hour. Dupont Soft Touch Elite, comes with the foam backing attached.

Hank, if it hasn't swolen yet you will probably be OK.... If the water got to the core you would know it :eek:

Hank, if it hasn't swolen yet you will probably be OK.... If the water got to the core you would know it :eek:
I'm pretty sure it'll be ok, not the first time it's had water on it in the last year. This just happened to be the most and sat for the longest amount of time.