I know this isn't performance related but this section gets the most views. I've been telling people this for years that it's not the dog's fault it's inbred or beat. Hopefully some of you will lose your stereo types as well.

http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/

P.S. has music playing in the background, and maybe some laguage issues, sorry. soo if you don't like watch with sound off.

Definitely not performance related. It was slower than an old Packard and sounded worse.

Originally posted by 1BAD70SS:
I know this isn't performance related but this section gets the most views. I've been telling people this for years that it's not the dog's fault it's inbred or beat. Hopefully some of you will lose your stereo types as well.

http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/ =
Sad but true graemlins/sad.gif
Thanks for sharing.
My wife & I as caretakers of a very misunderstood breed can completely relate
I could live without the "music" but the message is graphically clear,,,,,

well i think humanity in all its forms extends passed the pit bull,but is a vivid example....
i own 2 cats,1 chihuaua (spell check)and 1 big
rottie that goes by the name"moose"
and we all live happily together
shane

Oh, isn't that nice. Why is it that some people always tend to see only one side of the story?

No matter if you think it's the pit bulls gene's or only the owners who make a beast out of them, it's neither of them - It's a mixture of both. People watching the news about a pitbull killing someone go "damn pit bulls" thinking they are agressive dogs - People watching this video go "it's not the bread, it's the owners". IMHO, both is true.

Pitbulls do have the potential to be bad. I know because my little dog got bitten to death by two of them. Blame the owner? Of course! They escaped the estate and went hunting. Two weeks later the very same two dogs killed a old woman, she was gathering mushrooms in the forrest. It was the very first event like that ever on german national television (I was a child at that time). The same dogs that killed my dog Niko. The Pitbulls were shot by the police. Now what I'm asking, would Golden Retrievers do the same? Would Afgahns do the same? I don't think so Tim. Of course it's a matter of education, but you can not deny the agressive potential pit bulls have compared to other breeds. I'm not saying that they are all monsters, but my opinion is they need very loving and caring owners to be the good dogs that they are supposed to be.

Another thing in the movie made me think how manipulative numbers can be used: The numbers/percentages about bites. Just imagine the following: Dachshund's are nasty little bastards, barking all the time and biting everybody they don't know. I don't know which breed was no 1 in the statistic, but lets just imagine it was the dachshund. I'm sure under all the bites, there was NOT ONE with severe injuries. Just dog bites in the calf or hand. BUT with my own experience and all the occurances happening with pit bulls in the news, biting incidents with pit bulls are a whole different story. People are getting killed and severly injured! Now does that make the low percentage any better? Not for me!

I'm not trying to convince people how bad pit bulls are, and neither am I trying to convince everyone that it is the owners faults. It's definitely something in between. I think it's similar like with humans, the character is 40% genes and 60% education.

I'm just trying to say, please question everything you see, twice! Sometimes facts are just left out and people don't even recognize that, if they are not observant. Regardless what the discussion is about: Politics, News, whatever. Who ever has seen the movie "Twelve Angry Men" (The original B/W), will know what I mean.

Excuse my english.

Olli

I thought it was a great video.Owning 2 myself,and my Wife volunteers at the local animal shelter which pretty much exclusively works with the breed,I can relate.

EXCELLENT VIDEO ! I own 4 pitbulls 2males and 2 females ,and one of them is now in my garage with a litter of 11 , my two sons 5 - 11 years old go in the garage and take care of the litter is two days old now. And the pitbull bitch loves went they go and help her with the pups.

THE PITBULL NATURAL INSTINCT IS PROTECTION NOT DESTRUCTION ,OF THEIR YOUNG FRIENDS

This is my second litter in 4 years ,I sell them to responsable people IN the family and I take a down payment first before mating the famale ,and they are not allow to breed from them ,not everyone know how to handle and deserve a PITBULL .

"AN OLD PIT BULLDOG THINKS OF DEATH"

When they are ask you ,if died well,
Tell them then ,the Bulldog's tale ;
A tale of courage,dogs bred bold,
A tale of my kind,centuries old.

My blood comes from an ancient age;
Was valued more than king or sage,
Sires and dams of courage rare-
Who took on all who thought to dare .

In my blood flows images of ancient kin,
Of silent stones circles,of small dark men,
I see a savage beast in the flickering light
That those before me stood there to fight.

Rough British bulls go through my sleep,
I hold them fast with courage deep;
I hold them fast for my master's blow
With pride- I hold their noses low.

Before that even, we held the boar,
From those rough dogs come my core.
We've hunted,guarded,protected and fought-
We've done whatever man has taught.

So never think I woud forsake these things
When soon my spirit takes to wings
And when they ask you how I die,
Say,"AS A BULLDOG -WITH COURAGE ANG PRIDE"

DIANE JESSUP 2/93
THE WORKING PITBULL BOOK

OK, I helped a friend of mine back when I was about 10 years old or so deliver papers on our bicyles Saturday morning one time.

A guy was messing with his German Sheppard out in the front yard and I missed the porch and put the paper under the front bushes..

I quickly hopped off my bike, (never even thought of the pooch at all), and as I reached under the bushes for the paper the dog had my head in his mouth!!!

Luckily the guy called his dog off ASAP. It scared me so bad I jumped on my bike and never looked back!! Didn't help my friend throw papers after that..

Fast forward years later to my about 8 year old middle son who had the same thing happen to him but he wasn't so luck b/c nobody was around close. he got away from the dog and by the grace of God, didn't lose an eye!!

So tell me about dogs AND I love them too....

I was raised around German Short-haired Bird-dogs, Walker and other Fox dogs as well as Blue-tick and Red-bone 'Coon hounds, but I really don't see a need to have around a dog you have to muzzle....

I personally think that maybe the guy's that fight and brutalize Pit Bulls maybe should oughta be -- er, a, amm, I'm not going there!!!
In front of everybody, required attendance on the Courthouse steps.. Maybe then they might get the hint...

You know, like they used to hang horse thieves!!

pdq67

Whats the differnce between a pit bull riding your leg,
and a poodle riding your leg ?

You let the pit bull finish.

I've met at least one pit bull I liked.
And I'm sure the guys on this board are responsible, enthusiast of the breed.

But I'm still convinced that at least 50 % of pit bull owners, have them not because they love and appreciate the breeds history, but because they think having one makes them a badass.

In other words people too stupid to be trusted with an animal that is capable of what a pit bull is capable of.

Its not the dogs fault, but a pit bull is like a gun, really dangerous in the wrong hands.

-Ive had some first hand expierence with pit bulls. A friend had 3 of them. The first one was out back one night in his kennel and a guy tried to steal him and got mauled like a bitch. And was well deserving of it BUT they had to put the dog down!!! I thought that was crap.
-His 2nd one who is humerously named Chewbacca is a sweet pit bull but hes so fricken strong it almost is uncomfortable to hame him wapping his tail against your leg, there is a slight sting. I could only imagine what would happen if somone were to **** him off and hed let loose. Im sure it would be much more devistating than a Beagle bite.
-The last one, Charisma, is a vicious guard dog that i never had first hand expierence with because Rob said if the dog got out i best run my ass off cause it would try to kill me. Why he has it i dont know but thats not my problem. I guess what im saying is he has the entire spectrum. The good the bad and the dead one that was just sticking up for itself.
-The fact is if a cockerspainel gets pissed and bites you its not going to kill anyone. I say this because my girlfriend got attacked by one when she was 3, it tore her face open really good but she wasnt "mauled" per say. Luckily all she has is a tiny scar left on her face by her nose but the point is, she wasn't mauled. Now if that was a pit bull im sure her entire head would have been torn up and being 3 she probably would have died a terrible death. Somthing to think about

-Me personally, i think people who have Pit Bulls around children, especially small children are asking for trouble. Because ANY dong can turn on somone for what ever reason, even somthing simple like a tail yank from a 2 year old, and the LAST THING IN THE WORLD you want turning on you or your children is a pit bull.
-Hope that dosent offend anyone, its just my view and i dont want to argue.

Imho, it's like people that raise 10 foot pythons and wake up one morning to find their baby dead and has teeth marks all over it's head where one of their WONDERFUL snakes got out of it's cage in the middle of the night and wanted a midnight snack..

I read where this happened some years back for real in a newspaper...

pdq67

Interesting timing on this post. Yesterday my friend in AZ was trying to break up the second fight between his two Pits (the first fight resulted in such a bloodbath he had to replace the carpet in his entire house) and they attacked him severing several tendons and arteries in both his hands. He will be out of work for 4-6 months. I have hung out with these dogs and they were very well trained and behaved. They respeced my friend(owner) and never showed hostility to anyone.

It may not be their nature or the owner, but the fact that something hanging around that can do that much damage is something to think about.

A gun can accidentally go off in the hands of a well trained gun owner also. I guess its probability.

Sorry to hear the bad experiences ,but we got to be carefull (all dogs owners) because all dogs got there wild instinct on them ,the bad experience with dogs in this post were with dogs different breeds not pitbulls ,so let say that ALL dogs owners got to be carefull with their breeds .

i am in the process of picking out my next dog, my 120lb shepard /malamute mix just passed away after 12 years. i started looking at austrailan shepards and found out that at the turn of the last century 1890s or so they tried to create a breed to herd sheep and cattle in austrailia and they mixed in the pit bull but they had to stop because the resulting dogs would bite the animals they were herding and not, repeat not, let go so they dropped the pitbull and mixed in another dog that worked out much better.
why did i bring this up? because dogs have been bred since the dawn of man for a certain trait to do a certain job and a pitbull was bred to fight and have the most fearoious attitude there is. my buddy had two and they fought contantly till one day the daughter killed her mother, and they were raised in the most loving of care. my sister had a pitbull and it bred with her border collie and the resulting son would try to kill his father every chance he got even though the father would show total submission. why does a dog go after a child and kill him or maim them? because a dog grabs hold of a puppies head and gives a squeeze to tell the puppy to calm down and hush and the puppy has eons of instinct and it shuts up and calms down. when it bites a human child to tell it hush and calm down the human child yells louder and fights harded to get help, so the dog just keeps biting harder to get the child to calm down.
it's all instinct in a dog because we have bred them that way. so have your pitbull but i believe you should have the insurance to go along with him and a six foot fence and if the dog is every caught off of your property without an adult on the end of his leash then it should be distroyed because you can't keep control of him and if your pit bull or pressicaria every attacks and kills unprovoked then you should be charged with second degree murder and spend time in jail accordingly.
i am sorry for the spelling in this post and you probaly ask where do i get off with this attitude? i am a u.s. postal carrier and have seen a 19 year old girl's face ripped off by a pitbull on her second week of the job. i have been bit by a dog when his owner was working on his car and the dog ran out of the garage down to the sidewalk and sank his fangs into my leg and i thank god it wasn't a pitbull or the other fighting breeds.
dogs are bred for a purpose and the purpose of a pitbull is to kill and i include the other fighting breeds in this catagory.
ask sigfried and roy about animal instinct, a tiger is a tiger no matter who raises it.

Instinct is definately inherant in all dogs but mental instability sure isn't, I own two dogs one is a toy fox terrier and the other is a Husky. The Terrier weight less than 20 lbs and the Husky about 50 lbs. The terrier is very aggressive and puts the husky in it's place whenever she feels the need reguardless of the size difference. This dog goes crazy drooling from the mouth, very protective and aggressive. She has bitten at least six people including my 8 year old Daughter. I've thought of putting her down but the family would not agree. She is for the most part a loving caring member of the family except for the times she loses control. If she were larger and capable of more damage I would have no choice but to put her away. The Husky is totally the opposite, loving, caring, mellow, almost timid. I've seen other dogs lose it including a German Shepard my friend once owned, the dog was over protective by nature and mauled 3 people before being put to sleep.
I think animals can have mental problems just like people. Some have anger problems and show more aggresion than others.
Wild animals are the same way, I spend a lot of time in the woods here hunting and fishing and encounter black bear frequently, most run the minute they've seen you, others act curious, and every once in awhile you'll have one stalk you. It isn't very comfortable being stalked by a bear that doesn't want to give up while yelling at it and backing away.

Good point badbob

I think pit bulls are a little mentally unstable, some breeds are from all the in-breeding that has taken place over the years. German Shepherds tend to be unstable too.

That's not to say both can't make good pets, but how do you know if you have one that is mentally unstable? You can't just stick your hand out to a puppy and decide its OK when it doesn't leave you with a stump.

Several years ago a friend of our family was nearly killed by her Shepherd. Her dog was older and had been a good pet and watch dog its entire life. Well one day the dog just went nuts and attacked this lady, fortunately her son came home and found her lying on the floor unconscious and bleeding (with the dog chewing on her neck). He had to borrow a gun from the neighbor and shoot the dog before he could get to her.

There was a case on the news here in Grand Rapids about a year ago where a small child was attacked and nearly killed by a stray PET pit bull. Some animals are not intended to be pets IMO. Pit Bulls are one of them.

When you have small children like I do you understand why . . . I would never let a big dog that is known to be an agressive breed go anywhere near my kids. Is it really worth the risk?

There are lots of other good pets to choose from -- when was the last time you heard about a Chinchilla mauling a kid for example . . .

Originally posted by Eric68:

There was a case on the news here in Grand Rapids about a year ago where a small child was attacked and nearly killed by a stray PET pit bull. Some animals are not intended to be pets IMO. Pit Bulls are one of them.

Do you know what conditions that dog lived under? Just because it was a "pet" doesn't mean it was a well taken care of pet and lived in a loving home.
In your stated opinion about them not being intended as pets,what do you think they should be then?
Most people that have negative opinions about these dogs have that opinion based upon what the media says and has no experience working with them in ANY capacity

It was well taken care of -- the owners were sick after the incident and have kids themselves. The dog just got loose and attacked an unfamiliar person.

I also had a friend in the Navy that had two pits and when I met him he was in the process of being sued because one of them attacked a jogger in Virginia. He took great care of them thought they were great pets. Again, the dog just got loose and attacked an unfamiliar person.

There are lots of stories that are very similar to ones I mention. True, lots of dogs bite, but pits are especially dangerous because of their strength.

In the case of Pits I think that they are the sad result of being bred for fighting. German Shepherds were also bred to be agressive. It's people that breed these dogs and the sad result is a dog that has a temperament that is questionable for being a pet. I know there are probably some of you that have them as pets and may be offended by that statement, but the reality is that they are widely known and accepted as an agressive breed.

Perhaps Pits would make good gaurd dogs or police dogs. I don't think they should be encouraged to be family pets though -- there are a lot of better pet alternatives. And fighting any animal is just plain wrong.

mr 4 speed you seem pretty protective of these dogs ? Maybe you have good reason.

Being a father of a 7yr old son myself i really don't care much for ANY big dog. Before i defend any breed either, i don't own a dog. I do know if i were to get bit or my son i would rather be bit 10 times by a small dog rather than 1 time by a bigger dog.

Your right the media has protruded these dogs out to be BAD, but when was the last time you saw a small dog kill a human ? That's why their not on the TV. Hey at least the TV people with all their publicity have alearted the public to be aware of a possible issue, if you were ever to come face to face with one on the street, I think this is a good thing.

Can you kill a certain breed ? Can you not destroy a certain breed ? I don't know. But if you go down to our local animal shelter and ask for one, they'll tell you any retrieved cannot go back out.

I agree the owner should be fully responsible for the crime the animal commits, this may be a way to get at the BAD people who train them for fighting. I believe right now if your dog kills, or hurts someone the dog is put to sleep, but if you shoot someone and wound them or kill them, you go right to jail.

FWIW

Mike

Didn't change my mind. Any loose dog that gets close to my kids is going to get lead poisoning real fast.

My best friend has a male rott, they put the dog through multiple training and obedience classes. The dog is very well cared for and is the most loving of families, never has caused a problem. Until the other day, it was outside on a leash my friends wife was holding when a guy happened to be walking down the sidewalk, I was there and saw all this happen, the guy was meerly walking down the sidewalk, the dog went nuts, pulled the leash out of my friends wifes hand and went after this guy. The dog knocked him down and immediatly went for the guys head. I grabbed a 2x4 and broke it over the dogs head before it let go, please don't anyone on here tell me its all in how the dog is raised. I witnessed first hand training and the enviroment the dog is in has nothing to do with stopping a naturally agressive dog from being agressive. My friends are now being sued and I hope the dog killed. In my opinion their is no place in society for known agressive breeds of dogs. Jeff

So if the PitBulls are only bad because of their environment and training, then why don't the dog-fight people use other breeds? Why not a low-slung dachsund, or a tall Irish Wolfhound? Why is it ALWAYS a pit-bull? Shoot, don't even see Dobermans or German Shephards and a lot of people are scared to death of those two breeds.

Personally, I believe that the worst of the worst in any breed ARE because of their environment and I don't need some cheesy, one-sided video to point it out. But there's a reason that when someone sets out to train a dog to fight, they prefer the pit bull. Not only is it an ungodly strong dog (I used to have to hold them working at an animal hospital), but they're frequently by nature very aggressive toward other animals and occasionally people - intruders or not. Like people, there's psychotic ones and calm ones and there will ALWAYS be those that are gentle and loving and the owners claim to be amazed why anyone would ever think they're dangerous.

I've had this argument with others many times and there is just no middle ground. If you own them, you defend them, if you don't, you shy away...

Wouldn't want one, wouldn't want the liability and wouldn't want to be around where one is. Too unpredictable... when's the last time someone's Irish Wolfhound spazzed out and went on an attack spree?
Big-a***d dog, W-A-A-A-A-A-Y bigger than a pitbull, but I've yet to read about them in the paper or see them with a reputation.

Bottom line, where there's smoke there's usually fire and you can't always control fire!

Isn't having a hotrod enough penis extension for most of us? Why do some of you need to have an a??hole dog that threatens some innocent victim?

Bruce: :rolleyes: graemlins/sad.gif

I own a PitBull puppy. She is almost 16 weeks old. I did a lot of research before I bought her. I know the owners of both the mother and the father, and I know each dog's temperment. The grandfather of my puppy from the father's side was a fire rescue dog. He would pull people out of burning buildings and such. The father is a super smart, obidient dog, as it the mother. If I didn't know as much as I do about the parents, of my dog, or the owners of them I probably wouldn't have bought her. Seems to me like if you just go buy your kid a PitBull from the pet store, you don't know what your getting, how they have been treated (or their parents)... That's where the problem arises. If you buy a puppy from some random breeder without knowing anything about the parents' temperments, and later down the road if you dog attacks someone, it's your own fault. I'm not saying my dog won't attack anyone, but because I did my research on the parents background before I purchased her I suspect it to be far less likely that she will attack. I am going to fix her when she is old enough, I do not plan on breeding her. That's another problem with the breed. People buy them just to breed them. They can sell for a large amount of money, so people take advantage of that and just get two random pits and have them get it on, just so they can make a little $$. That's wrong. Bottom line, do your research before you buy any dog.

My little brother got a half pit pup a few months ago. He seems easy going. He loves everyone...he tries to jump and lick and sniff anyone that comes around. He's the sweetest dog we've ever had.

My grandma also has 3 and they too are very sweet friendly dogs, but I did watch her olderest female attack my aunts dog after it sniffed her. It wasn't bad but it was scary how quick she went from playful to psycho.

They were bred for fighting and while I love the ones I've been around I am not stupid enough to assume they're as safe as any other dog.

PS: I HATE chiwawas and all those other little bastard dogs that think they have to bark and bite anyone who comes near them. I have punted more than one for running up and biting my ankles while walking around town and such.

There is an old saying, "know the breed, know the dog". If you want to hunt birds, you buy a short-hair or a brittany, if you want a mouser, you buy a terrrier. What do you buy a pit bull for? What's in their blood? I'm a boxer owner, I feel you get the same protective qualities but in a much more even tempered and tolerant dog.

One of the problems with the breed is that the history of the breed evokes an automatic image of fierce creature ,the natural inclination is to think that if a dog is a killer of other animals ,it is certanly must be an unrealible disposition with people
But think of retrivers.They have excellent dispositions with humans even though they have strong instincts to go after birds.The same is true Redbone Coonhounds ,wich are usde for tracking and attacking everything from racoons to bears; yet they have an outstanding disposition with humans simply because the historical breeders were completely intorelant of people -mean dogs.
Wy ALL THE @#@r%%#@ in the media then? I have never once owned PITBULL that would bite anyone
Many of the mayor news magazines and mayor Television news programs have done stories on the breed with distorted information .One of the problems about this stories is that the people who want to do the story already have in mind .A Pitbull bite is more likely to make the news than a bite from any other breed .Even bited that aren't verify Pitbull bites often get repoted if is suspected as it was a Pitbull
Many MIXED BREED incidents are reported as though the dogs are pure PITBULLS

Originally posted by rcatala:
Many MIXED BREED incidents are reported as though the dogs are pure PITBULLS [/QB]Many people here are getting mixes cause they're "not pitbulls". There's a muzzle law here in Vancouver *for pitbulls*. And the enclosure requirements *for pitbulls* are tougher (fences have to be taller, etc).

If it quacks like a duck...

This thread fits right in here AND read what I said about the dude walking down the street!!!

http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/2/26480.html?

pdq67

Ok,,, my first take on the video was one of pity for the animals that were being abused & mistreated & the thought that some laws should be changed in regards to anyone who would treat any animal in this fashion.
I personally feel the same laws should apply to the treatment of animals as to people with the same penalties.

I am not defending the ownership of pit bulls here or any other breed for that matter.
What I am defending is the animals right to a full, respectful & happy life & am saying that if it is your decision to take an animal into your home & family it is your responsibility to both care for & control this or these animals along with realizing what the consequences could be if you do not take the appropriate safeguards.
If you as a supposedly intelligent person are not capable of or do not understand the responsibilities that go with whatever "pet" you decide to adopt into your family then you damn well shouldn't have the animal.
It can be both dangerous for you & your family as well as others & worse yet in my mind at least, unfair to the animal

Case in point:
We have been raising & caring for Wolves for over 30 years & have owned shepherds for over 50 years & I think I can speak from experience about both breeds.
The Wolves are not pets, they are not status symbols, they will never be "owned" or dominated, they can be a very dangerous animal.
We know this & yes, I have been bitten by them on occasion but being as the largest is 175 lbs he could easily take my arm off if he so desired. All he is doing is telling me in his own way I am doing something out of order to him. I don't have a clue what, but he does.
We are well aware of the responsibilities of caring for these absolutely beautiful animals & accept this as a matter of course.
Is this an endorsement for most people to own a Wolf or high percentage wolf mix,, absolutely not just stating a few facts & not repeating a bunch of gossip which is the norm about these animals in particular.
I know people who have pits & they are or seem to be excellent pets but I also know people who have them who are complete idiots & shouldn't own a turtle.
I personally do not feel it is entirely the animals fault for the circumstances it finds itself in.

Now,, when it comes to German Shepherds,, I can say with some experience after 50+ years of personal ownership that they are one of the most loyal caring intelligent breeds I have had the privilege of being involved with.
In at least 80+ years, with more animals than I can even remember our family has NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER had an issue with a family member or welcome guest being injured by these animals.
This includes my parents & their parents.
This is a lot of shepherds.
Can a shepherd be dangerous or vicious,, you better believe they can but every one I have had experience with had good cause or it was a circumstance where some idiot parent or less than intelligent person caused an incident either from something as stupid as allowing there child around an unknown animal or through the fault of careless owners not taking proper care of their animals.
In both cases, someone may get hurt & the wrong party at least in my opinion gets the blame.

Again, this is not an endorsement for the "ownership" of any breed of animal, just hopefully some factual information in defense of the animals in question & the responsibilities that go with caring for them ;)

Good post, Mike. Your point about welcome visitors stands true at my house, too. I have a couple of mix breed dogs, which I took in as pups because they were unwanted. They're both about 5-6 years old now. One is a Shepard/??? mix, about 50lbs. Friendly to everyone. Loves beer, will bug you until he gets some. The other is a pitbull/sharpei mix. Very loving dog to the family, including my 3y.o., who tends to bug him a bit, but he puts up with it well. To everyone I don't know or like, he's 60+ lbs. of a**hole. When someone walks up to the gate, if unknown, he will get excited, barking and growling, until I tell him to be quiet, and let them in. Then he will welcome whoever it is, and from that point on, remembers them, and welcomes them in. He does respond well to who I don't like, too. Like the neighborhood chronic, who will sometimes come over to ask about borrowing a socket or something. He's not welcomed into the yard, and has to stand back from the gate lest he get tagged by Spyke (the pit/sharpei).

Not long ago, maybe 4-5 months, I came home during a weekday about noon, on the bike. I parked it inside the gate, and went inside. I noticed some lowlife across the street, waiting for a neighbor, obviously. I hear the dogs getting excited, so I go to the window to see who's out there. Here's this guy, looking up into the garage at my toolboxes and stuff. I'm about to go outside to see what he wants, when I see him stick his hand through the gate to pet Shadow, the shepard mix. Out of the right, Spyke jumps and whacks the guy's hand. I see him pull it out real fast, and he spins around, holding his wrist with his other hand. Takes one quick look, turns around and leaves. Spyke got a bag of pig ears for that one. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

FWIW, the people Spyke still doesn't like, even though I let them in, he has expressed this by leaving his mark. A couple times on a guy's bike I was working on, since he teases Spyke, and once right on another guy's leg as we're standing there in the garage talking. :D graemlins/thumbsup.gif