I started to install my Grand Cherokee box today and did some initial inspections. I first referenced Jim's centering guide to make sure nothing was goofy with my original setup. Everything looks ok with the input shaft flat pointing straight up at 12 o'clock.

I purchased a used Cherokee box from a salvage yard and it supposedly had low miles and looked clean. Both shafts where weeping so I figured I would have a shop replace the seals. The shop replaced the seals and I picked up the box. I later on had some issues with the same shop due to incompetency on there part but assumed the box was OK.

I later found out from an inside source that they had some trouble with the input shaft seal. Something about a bunch of stuff came out and they didnt know how to put it back in.

IN CASE YOU SKIPPED THE ABOVE, WHEN I CENTER THE INPUT SHAFT, THE FLAT ON THE NEW BOX FACES 7 O'CLOCK. Its approx 2.5 turns, so I go to the stop, then back 1.25 turns. Is it possible that the input shaft was not installed correctly or do they only go in one way?

I also noticed the lock ring isnt flush with the nut.

Big Al,
Sounds like the guys that rebuilt your gear weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer! That being said, there are a few things that are of a concern.

First of all, a fast ratio 12.7:1 Jeep Grand Cherokee (1992-1998) power gear should have 3.1 turns full lock to full lock. You report that this gear only has 2.5 turns.

I would check the sweep of the pitman shaft. The sweep should be 87 1/2 degrees full lock to full lock.

When the gear is on center the flat on the input shaft should be at 12 o'clock AND a missing tooth on the pitman shaft should be exactly in line with the side cover preload screw. Picture #13 on this scan may be helpful.
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/RBGDisassembly&RepairPics4.doc

Now download this scan. http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/RBGDisassembly&RepairPics2.doc

Take a look at picture #7. When you assemble the valve assembly back into the gear housing, the small pin on the worm assembly must engage a precision notch in the valve assembly. I wonder is somehow the valve was just jammed into the gear housing and didn't align with the pin.

I hope that these topics might be able to sort out your gear problem(s). Take note that you might not even have the correct Jeep gear.

Jim

I'm 95% positive its 2.5 turns lock to lock. The strange thing is when I line up the missing tooth on the pitman shaft with the preload screw, the input shaft flat points at 12 o'clock, BUT from this point the input turns about 1.75 turns one way to the right, but only about 3/4 turn the other way to the left.

Its almost like I dont have the full travel. You can see that the pitman missing tooth goes farther one way vs. the other.

I did bring it to a shop that claims they know about these boxes, but that was after 3 referrals because nobody touches these things.

Thanks for the help so far.

Sounds like things are just not right with that box.

Could it be that the bozos just put the recirculating balls in any old way and that they are jamming before you get full travel? When you get different amounts of travel on the input, what kind of movement do you get out of the pittman shaft? Does it really traverse it's full arc?

Note that there are small and big balls in there and they must be put in in alternating order or they WILL bind (BTDT). And when we say small and big here we are talking about .001" difference. Originally they were different colors but over the years any coloring wears off and they all look silver.

It if were me I would be taking that box apart and putting it back together, making sure it was right this time.

I thought that I posted this idea yesterday!

I am quite sure that this is your problem.

I think that the guys that rebuilt your gear used the wrong aluminum end plug when they put it back together!!! Pitman shaft travel in left turn is restricted by the thickness of the end plug. Your Jeep gear requires the Saginaw end plug that is the thinnest. This should get you back to equal travel in both directions and should get the center of travel back to the input shaft flat being at 12 o'clock.

Unless I also answered you by eMail, I know that I expressed this same idea at least one full day ago. Somehow, some of my postings are not getting sent when I hit the "SUBMIT REPLY" button.

Sorry for the delay.
JIML82

I did get your reply via email. Havnt been by the PC though. The box was not fully rebuilt. The seals were only replaced, so its all Grand Cherokee and I dont think they touched the end plug.

Im not sure what you mean my end plug. Why would travel be restricted in one direction only? Does this mean I need the chevelle plug for the Jeep box?

The Saginaw power gear would have its pitman sweep (rack piston travel) restricted by using various thicknesses of aluminum end caps (or plugs) in the one direction (rack piston moving forward in the car). The other direction had the rack piston travel restricted by placing large diameter snap rings way down inside the rack housing bore. Chevelle power gears typically used a full travel gear (thinnest end plug and no snap rings - 43 degrees 30 min in each direction from center.) The Jeep Grand Cherokee gear had essentially the same rack travel (thinnest plug, no rings - 43 degrees 45 minutes in each direction.)

The other way around was the Camaro. Typically the travel of a Camaro gear was restricted to something around 33 degrees (or even less!) in each direction. That type gear used a very thick end plug and probably a combination of snap rings inside the gear. Most gears had the same travel in both directions. Remember we still want the flat on the input shaft to be right at 12 o'clock and the gearset inside the gear to be on its design center.

When a Chevelle makes a left turn, the steering wheel is turned CCW and the rack piston inside the gear travels forward (looking down at the gear, the pitman shaft is rotating CW). Making a right turn, the steering wheel turns CW, the rack piston travels rearward (deeper into the housing toward the driver) and the pitman shaft rotates CCW.

You indicate that you have full travel when making a right turn. So your Jeep gear has the pitman shaft turning a full 43 + degrees from on-center in the CCW direction. This would indicate full travel when the rack piston travels back into the gear housing - no snap rings.

However travel is restricted when you try to make a left turn. Let's assume that your Jeep gear was assembled with a thick Camaro end plug.

The Jeep gear versus the Camaro gear has 10 degrees of travel difference in either direction. But our travel is only limited in the left turn direction. So let's make a calculation based on a thick Camaro end plug just restricting left turn in your Jeep gear.

If you have a 12.7:1 ratio gear you multiply the ratio times the 10 degrees travel difference and get 127 degrees. So the input shaft is restricted in one direction by a thick end cap by a little more than 1/3 of an entire circle which would translate to the input shaft stopping at about 7 or 8 o'clock.

Let's do another calculation: 43 degrees one direction + 33 degrees in the other direction = 76 degrees multiplied by 12.7 gear ratio = 965 total degrees of input shaft travel. 965/360 = 2.7 revolutions of the input shaft. Just about what you measured.

Jim

First, I want to thank you again Jim for taking the time to type all of this out. Hopefully this will help others in the future. Please also forgive me for not understanding everything about these boxes. I have repaired just about every component on my car except the steering box.

Is Key No. 38-PLUG, RACK PISTON from RGBlowup the plug in question?

Is it possible I don't have the GC box? Like I said in the previous post, only the seals were replaced. It was done by a general repair shop, not a shop that specializes in steering components. So it seems strange that they would have put something else on the box that wasn't already on it.

How can I make sure I have a GC box? If I do or don't, I probably need to change the end plug to get full travel, correct? How do I obtain these plugs? Can I use the one from my Chevelle? Is the job difficult to do or will it be like a can of worms?

No, it is part #42 Plug, Housing End. It is probably the easiest part to remove from the gear. You should be able to exchange the one in your Jeep gear for the one in your Chevelle.

Take a look at picture #3 on this download.
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/RBGDisassembly&RepairPics1.doc

The round wire ring is sitting in a groove in the end of the gear housing. There is an access hole in the gear housing. You may have to walk the ring around so that you can get an end so that it is near the access hole. Use a punch to press the ring end out of the housing groove. Use a screwdriver to get under the ring and work the screwdriver around until you can remove the ring. You can use the piston inside the gear to move the end plug out of the bore in the housing.

When you have the two end plugs out of the gears. One should be noticeably thicker or have several cast pads on the side that was inside the gear.

There is only one real good way to determine if you have a 1992 through 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee power gear. Original gears had a sticker or ink stamp in two possible places. Either right on the aluminum housing end plug or on the aluminum cover #46 on top of the gear. There should have been one of the following two letter codes AL, BT, PD, JH, KD or WK on the sticker or inked on the aluminum.

If the code is missing all you can do is check the pitman shaft sweep and the input shaft rotation. The sweep should be a total of 87 degrees 30 minutes full lock to full lock. You should be able to get a pretty close measurement with a cheap plastic protractor. The input shaft should rotate 3.1 revolutions full lock to full lock. With the new end plug hopefully you will be able to obtain these two measurements.

This wouldn't guarantee that it is a Grand Cherokee gear but it would certainly lead me to believe that it was.

My wife and I are leaving on a 10 day holiday in Ireland starting on Sunday so I am going to be out of communication for a while. I certainly hope that I have analyzed your problem correctly. Let me know what you find.

Good luck,
Jim

One bit of advice to add to Jims procedure... if you use the steering gear to push out the end plug be careful not to over-extend it. If you do you will hear little ball bearings start falling out inside. And then your real adventure will begin. Trust me, BTDT.

This was how I learned about the very slight differences in size between the recirculating balls inside the "rack" as Jim calls it. If you should run into this, I am not Jim but I *can* help you figure it out and get it back together.

Excellent point Steve!
You should place your hand over the end plug end. Start turning the input shaft CCW. As you reach the end of travel you will start to push the end plug out of the housing. Just as soon as you can grip the plug to fully remove it; STOP TURNING THE INPUT SHAFT!!

You don't want to be replacing dropped ball bearings from the recirculating ball circuit.

Good luck,
Jim

After closer inspection, the box travel seems to be limited from on center when turning the input shaft CW. From 12 o'clock on the flat along with the missing tooth lined up with the adjuster nut, I can turn the shaft 1.5 turns CCW from center, and about .7 turn from center in the CW direction.

Sorry about the confusion. Im temped to dump this thing in the river and buy a box that I know is correct rather than jeopardize my safety.

After fumbling around with a power steering box for my car, I added it to the list of things that should never be taken apart.

Here are a few from the list

washing machine
BB gun
windup pocket watch
recoil starter from a briggs & straton lawn mower
automatic transmission
and now
power steering box

I "rebuilt" it, put it back together.
started the car and the steering wheel went out of control to
the lock.
Nearly broke both thumbs trying to hang on to it.

After closer inspection, the box travel seems to be limited from on center when turning the input shaft CW. From 12 o'clock on the flat along with the missing tooth lined up with the adjuster nut, I can turn the shaft 1.5 turns CCW from center, and about .7 turn from center in the CW direction.

Sorry about the confusion. Im temped to dump this thing in the river and buy a box that I know is correct rather than jeopardize my safety.
So that is about 43* to the left and 20* to the right.

Right pulls the rack in and left pushes it out. Thus left is normally limited by incorrect end cap on the gearbox.

Honestly I still think it is a jamming ball issue because there were no stops that would limit it that much. Here is my suspect scenario: for whatever reason they decided they needed to remove the end cap. Of course the easiest way to break it free is using the rack as a piston. And if you go too far the balls come out. Then they just put them back in without realizing there were two sizes of balls.

Here is what you do... you remove the top cap over the pittman arm. This will provide you with access, or a sort, to the top of the rack. There are two bolts there that hold a two sides of a U shaped channel. Remove those bolts, the channel, and work all of the balls out. I believe there are 20 of them. Now you are going to have to measure and sort the balls out. I used a digital caliper but not as a measurement as it could not tell the difference. What I did was use it to feel the amount of "pop" as I passed the ball through the fingers. You could do the same thing with a crescent wrench. Easy or no pop balls went into one pile and harder or pop balls went into another. Amazingly enough I had 10 balls in each pile when I was done, gotta love it when a plan comes together :yes:

Now you can put a coating of grease on the insides of the channel pieces and use to "glue" balls in during assembly.

Feed the balls down the hole alternating big small big small. You will need to work/wiggle the gear with slight pressure on the balls to get then in there and around the worm. When you see one getting close to coming up into the other hole stop. The remaining balls get glued into the channels and the channels remounted on top.

Now work through the steering from lock to lock and make sure everything is smooth feeling. If you have any notch or bumps you will need to do it over again. Most likely causes are getting the balls mixed up or packing them in too tightly.

That is the basic procedure. Not the most fun but it can be rather educational :beers:

yes it can. seems like there's not many guys left who can do this. On this site Philip (64elcamino) is one of those guys. you can do this, but if you're not comfy with the deal you could ask Philip if you could send it to him.

Jim is the acknowledged expert on these, but I don't know whether he does work or not. Probably not in Ireland in any case.

Philip did the box on my car.

July 3
"95% positive its 2.5 turns lock to lock. The strange thing is when I line up the missing tooth on the pitman shaft with the preload screw, the input shaft flat points at 12 o'clock, BUT from this point the input turns about 1.75 turns one way to the right, but only about 3/4 turn the other way to the left."
July 6
"After closer inspection, the box travel seems to be limited from on center when turning the input shaft CW. From 12 o'clock on the flat along with the missing tooth lined up with the adjuster nut, I can turn the shaft 1.5 turns CCW from center, and about .7 turn from center in the CW direction."

Well it looks like I misinterpreted the meaning of "right" and "left" in the July 3 posting. When you rotate a Chevelle input shaft CW the car turns right. Looking over the fender down at the gear the pitman arm can be seen to rotate CCW. The rack piston inside the gear moves back further into the gear.

So if you have .7 turns (of the input shaft) from center in the CW direction you are restricted in travel by the snap rings inside the gear.

If you have 1.5 turns of the input shaft from center in the CCW direction you have full travel in that direction.

I think that it is time for you to go to your local auto parts store and purchase a remanufactured gear with a fast ratio, full travel, and decent valve effort. There have been numerous postings listing various gears with their part numbers. They are fairly inexpensive.

Jim

Jim, I might just bite the bullet and get a reman box. Im just pissed that I took it to this shop, they put new seals on it, had it powdercoated, then purchased the fittings and rag joint. I could have just bought a new box. Oh well, you live and learn. Anyone want a newly powedercoated GC box with a brand new rag joint and fitting already installed?

Thanks for all the help. I may open it up to see whats cooking just for fun, but i'm sick of thinking about it.

That could be an entertaining project... but shipping to 95746 would be ugly.

This weekend is 1/2 price at our local Pick-n-Pulls, so I am going shopping ;-)

Yee haw. GOOD shopping trip. Sometimes the plan just comes together. Right inside the door, a '92 Camaro. With V8 and I am guessing RS. Steering box still there... and right there on top in stamped on letters: "XH" just like Jim has said. According to the charts that should have a .210" T bar in it and 12.7 ratio, the largest T-bar and fastest ratio shown on Jim's charts.

Snagged the PS pump relief valve, lines (including cooler loop), and gear box for $40 including the $10 core charge. I'm a happy camper. :thumpsup:

Of course I will have to go fish the snap ring out of it and swap end caps to get full Chevelle sweep steering. Done that before so no big deal.

It will be interesting to see how close the lines fit. Grabbing them was a second thought and, along with the relief valve, may save me having to convert from the O-ring gear box ports. And I already had a coupling I picked up out of a truck earlier :)

Once I had it out and could see, it even had the code letters stamped on the end cap. Maybe I should clear coat it to preserve the stampings :p