Before n20? 300+ there after to a max of 450 shot.
433, steel crank, hbeams 6.385, 11:1+ or so, vicjr and 781 heads to work with. Anyone of you guy do this? roller or solid FT grind numbers appriciated. Thats what I have to work with?
Open to valve sizes, pistons, cam recommendations and carb as long as its a 4150 base.
Or am I asking for to much

A buddy of mine just put together a 433 for his Vette. We cut pistons to get compression down to just under 11.0. He used out of the box Dart 310's, a Chet Herbert SR...255* and .690 lift I believe. It has an old short style Team G intake (barely fits under Vette hood) with a 1050 Dominator. He has it in the car with 2" headers and 3" full exhaust out the back.

He just got it running and has been having some fuel starvation issues....but it made 478 RWHP on the chassis dyno in pure street trim. It was running out of fuel on the dyno even at high RPM. I think it truly has the guts to make 500+ RWHP. So he's awful close to 600 crank HP since this is through full pipes and a Vette IRS rear that eats some HP.

JIM

I recently built a 433 , its 11.2 compression,a herbert 257-271 @ .050 and 685 lift -108 lobe center. i run a victor and 1050 .the heads are canfiled 310. I have never built a big block before this . When i drop the transbrake @4000 rpm ,ITS ON . i cant believe the power .it has got to be near 600 hp.
I actually took away some intake valve lash cold .16 ,this gave a couple degrees duration etc. But now it makes even more power .I REALLY dont need all that exhaust diration ,but i cant feel any torque loss !!

You'll need the roller. Bill Water's 433 came in right above 6, but he used better heads than 781s.

427's still crank, dont they!? :thumbsup:

Mine had JE shelf stock pistons and 7/16 rods on a stock steel crank. I think these were rated at 13.3:1. I used Merlin rect port heads with the 2.25/1.94 valves and 118 cc chambers. The valves were big but it was what I had. I used an ultradyne .725/.725 roller, at 280/288@.050 and with a strip dominator with an 850 it went 10.30's weighing 3380 lbs. It ran great until a roller lifter broke and ate everything.

Gene,

Where's the guy w/ the 414" Baby Rat at??

10secbou, is that him??

pdq67

Jason have you had yours to the track?

When I was running my 427 (still have it in garage) it went through a bunch of combos. Most used oval port GM iron heads, then later rectangular ports and then 2 stages of N20. All used same shortblock. It's still a std bore/std crank motor with 11.0 closed chamber GM/TRW's that were in when I bought it as a new shortblock from Chevy in 1980 or so! Various combos ran 11.70's in pure street trim in TX..to low 10's in Denver with the juice. All on pump gas. I'm sure there were 9 sec passes in it on the juice at sea level in it's last serious version.

After that I detuned it to it's very last version and it was a heck of a sweet street motor. Same shortblock. Ported Merlin iron ovals (324cfm) that were milled to end up with an actual 11.2 compression. Block was never decked so I used steel shim gaskets. It had the little Comp 288 street roller. 244/244@.050 .623/.623 on a 110 LSA. I used the same Team G I described above and 1050 Dominator. It made 423 RWHP and ran 11.20's@123 in my Vette with easy launches to save IRS pieces. I was using a Doug Nash 5 speed and 3.36 gears.

So my buddy is up 50 RWHP over my last version. He has a lot more aggressive cam and I'm sure the Dart's flow pretty decent, but we didn't test them. He is also using 3" exhaust and an electric water pump vs my belt driven one and 2.5" pipes. Otherwise he has my old intake and headers.

So hopefully that gives you some more idea of what will get you what. My old heads were pretty nice, so I'm guessing cam and exhaust are the big players here.

427's are cool! I love 'em!


JIM

no i haven't ran it yet! It is a 62 nova thats still being completed.I have a few more bars to add to the cage and some tin work to finish the backhalf.I am running a th400 with 4500 converter and 4.86 gears. I am hoping for 10.40 e.t.s . The car is a LIGHTWEIGHT!! so I THINK my goals are within reason!

wow guys thanks, I cut and pasted everything for latter date.
540- the herbert your buddy used @ what rpm did it max out 7+?
I was on the comp site and read a review using a 9:1 427 afr 305 and the cam you mentioned 288 roller It made 596hp@6500 and a fellow over at nasty has a 440 using 288 roller but its 253@50 on a 108ls with 049 heads which made 475 @ the wheels. Now I wounder how that cam would compare to the new Xtreme roller series.
bracketchev1221 "I used an ultradyne .725/.725 roller, at 280/288@.050 "
what rpm did you run that up to, high side of 7g's?

Gene,

Where's the guy w/ the 414" Baby Rat at??

10secbou, is that him??

pdq67

talked to him a little over a month ago, nice guy. That motor made jam for what it was. I was very impressed to say the least. Thats why I wanted to ask, the wheel has been invented just looking for the original plans:)

Yes mine was shifted at 7300 and crossed at about the same. It was also a 5500 converter with a 4.88 rear and a 29.5 tall tire.

I'll have to ask him for sure....but I think it was peaking around 6800 or so....but it just hung in there past 7200 or so. Runs strong.

Actually idles and drives pretty clean. He's going to have to do something with gearing. He's got a M-21 and 3.70's. It wants a LOT more for sure!


JIM

jester, I tried to find Bill's combo ( CDN SS), but couldn't. I know he posted dyno results somewhere here. You might drop him a line.

Jester, might I recommend this cam designer...

"A hydraulic roller with the EverWear Gear costs $350, and you can call me at 662-301-1245."

Gene,

Where's the guy w/ the 414" Baby Rat at??

10secbou, is that him??

pdq67

I did run a 414 ci destroked 427 (with 781's) a few years back. It ran on 93 octane pump gas and ran consistent 10.70's @ 127 mph at 3600 lbs. It was never on an engine dyno but did make 418 RWHP and 360 ft/lbs of torque. By my calculations that would have put it around 580 hp at the crank.

Car was launched at 2500-3000 rpm off the footbrake and shifts made at 7000 rpm, engine saw 7100-7200 at the stripe.

Gene,

Glad you posted UDHarold's phone number!!

He's the MAN, imho..........

pdq67

My recipe is as follows:
Chevy 4 bolt main block, Chevy forged 3.76 crank, Lunati steel rods,
Arias 4.28" 13.5-1 pistons, worked -840 Chevy rec port heads with 2.30/1.90 stainless valves,
Crane .630/.630 solid flat tappet, worked Holley Strip Dominator and Pro Systems 1000 HP 4150 carb.
By the way, this one's for sale, wink, wink.

I did run a 414 ci destroked 427 (with 781's) a few years back. It ran on 93 octane pump gas and ran consistent 10.70's @ 127 mph at 3600 lbs. It was never on an engine dyno but did make 418 RWHP and 360 ft/lbs of torque. By my calculations that would have put it around 580 hp at the crank.

Car was launched at 2500-3000 rpm off the footbrake and shifts made at 7000 rpm, engine saw 7100-7200 at the stripe.
10sec..If I may ask,where did the 162 HP go?Driveline parasitic and tire slip on the chassis dyno rollers?I only ask,because I am headed off soon to the chassis dyno and had 20% powertrain loss in mind.Thank you.

10sec..If I may ask,where did the 162 HP go?Driveline parasitic and tire slip on the chassis dyno rollers?I only ask,because I am headed off soon to the chassis dyno and had 20% powertrain loss in mind.Thank you.

To get a rough idea on the flywheel HP, I simply used the common formulas based on the cars weight and mph.

But that in comparison to the RWHP off the Mustang dyno shows 30% loss which is what Charlie at Booze Brothers Racing (whose dyno it was) see's in difference between their chassis dyno and the engine dyno of Kuntz who does alot of their Ford Heads up class engines.

60 over 427 here, 781 heads c/w 2.19's and 1.88's, with a lot of porting, Vic Jr. ported, Bo Laws 850 dp flowing 930, stupid big old Comp solid roller, 12.2 to 1 actual with Ross lightweights, 2" Hooker Comps, 675 hp on the dyno at 7200 rpm. It has seen 7400 on the rev limiter.

Hi guys
Unfortunatly I couldnt respond and say thanks from Cuba, something about selling off a lung for a hour of internet usage. Wasnt going to do that.
And for any american friends dont worry not missing anything especially the food Imstill paying for that....:(
ejrempel what size cam was it, did you ever run it?

60 over 427 here, 781 heads c/w 2.19's and 1.88's, with a lot of porting, Vic Jr. ported, Bo Laws 850 dp flowing 930, stupid big old Comp solid roller, 12.2 to 1 actual with Ross lightweights, 2" Hooker Comps, 675 hp on the dyno at 7200 rpm. It has seen 7400 on the rev limiter. Up the rev limiter. None of the short stroke motors are wrung out at 7400.

You;re hard core Mr. Sutton. I took my 7400 chip out to do a burnout and see if the valvesprings could take it. Good to 8000 + they told me ( Isky's).

FOR SURE! :thumbsup: even got a kiss from a pretty lady over it! :cool:

But, for a mild street motor, I put the 7400 chip back in. 7000 happens WAY too fast with a 427.

REV 'EM UP GENTLEMEN! 427's are made to SCREAM! :D

To get a rough idea on the flywheel HP, I simply used the common formulas based on the cars weight and mph.

But that in comparison to the RWHP off the Mustang dyno shows 30% loss which is what Charlie at Booze Brothers Racing (whose dyno it was) see's in difference between their chassis dyno and the engine dyno of Kuntz who does alot of their Ford Heads up class engines. Mustang chassis dynos usually show about 40 horsepower less than Dynojets on all engines. Booze only runs standard tranmissions, so the driveline losses should be more in the neighborhood of 15-18%, even on a Mustang Dyno. I had a Super Stock engine builder tell me that almost nobody calibrates their engine dyno before they make a pull because it's time consuming so it's quite possible that most engine dyno power readings are likely from 25-35 H.P. high. My friend had a S/S 396 (409 cu. in.) with worked over factory closed chamber heads and made 658 H.P. on a Superflow 901. He finally ran as fast as 10.12 @ 131 on a good day with 1000 ft. air, and weighing about 3550 lbs. It never got into the nines.

You;re hard core Mr. Sutton. I took my 7400 chip out to do a burnout and see if the valvesprings could take it. Good to 8000 + they told me ( Isky's).

FOR SURE! :thumbsup: even got a kiss from a pretty lady over it! :cool:

But, for a mild street motor, I put the 7400 chip back in. 7000 happens WAY too fast with a 427.

REV 'EM UP GENTLEMEN! 427's are made to SCREAM! :D I used to wind my old 396 about 7700-8000 but wouldn't want it to trap above 7000. It generally only went across at about 6500-6600 in high, above 7000 is pretty tight for long periods.

8000rpm sounds like sweet music;)

Ill have Harold design something for it in a short time. For now I went with a comp cams grind number294B-8 which is 256/266 on a 108LS duration @ .20 is 294/204 the cam was free so i jumped on it.

is that -8 an iron roller? if so it's worth even less than you paid for it. give to somebody you don't like, or Ebay it or something.

is that -8 an iron roller? if so it's worth even less than you paid for it. give to somebody you don't like, or Ebay it or something.

No its actually a solid flat tappet.

Camshaft Specification Table
Part Number11-604-5 Engine1965-1996 Chevrolet
396ci-454ci
8cyl. Grind Number CB 294B-8 DescriptionIntakeExhaustValve Adjustment0.028 0.03 Gross Valve Lift0.58 0.605 Duration At 0.02 Tappet Lift294 304 Valve Timing At 0.02 OpenCloseIntake39 75 Exhaust80 44 These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 108 Intake CLIntakeExhaustDuration At 0.05 256 266 Lobe Lift0.341 0.356 Lobe Separation108 Recommended Valve Springs924-16

It seems to resemble something like a Harold cam may be the ripped it from him??

You;re hard core Mr. Sutton. I took my 7400 chip out to do a burnout and see if the valvesprings could take it. Good to 8000 + they told me ( Isky's).

FOR SURE! :thumbsup: even got a kiss from a pretty lady over it! :cool:

But, for a mild street motor, I put the 7400 chip back in. 7000 happens WAY too fast with a 427.

REV 'EM UP GENTLEMEN! 427's are made to SCREAM! :D
Yes it does!