Here is the latest:
454 bored .030
"781" large oval port heads with 2.19/1.88 valves installed (ports cleaned up and polished)
XE-284H cam (240/246 @ .50")(.574/.578)110 deg LS
TRW-L2399F30 dome pistons (will be 10:1) 13.8cc dome
Holly 850 Double pmpr
1/2" fuel line front to back
(need advice on the fuel pump)
Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold (oval)
Summit 1 3/4" to 3" collector headers w/ 3" exhaust. Summit 3"in/out turbos.
MSD HEI billet distributor
M-21 close ratio tranny to a 12-bolt posi 3.73 gears
No A/C

Can someone give me a desktop dyno run or a close guesstimate as to my projected horsepower.
Thanks everybody, I think we are there now but I want to be sure.. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I'd guess 500 HP..but pay no attention to HP..its torque that matters..your combo should perform very,very well..and if you run it at the track,you will need some sort of DOT sticky tire and master the "launch" to ET well.For a fuel pump,the good 'ole Carter 172 mechanical pump will be fine.

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
I'd guess 500 HP..but pay no attention to HP..its torque that matters..your combo should perform very,very well..and if you run it at the track,you will need some sort of DOT sticky tire and master the "launch" to ET well.For a fuel pump,the good 'ole Carter 172 mechanical pump will be fine. Thanks Chris, The launch is what I have never practiced and that is what test and tune will be for. Any tips are appreciated :eek: . I'm getting a pair of Blaauboers tires that he is replacing with an upgraded pair. He has been a big help with this wheel dilema. I was hoping for closer to 550 HP. Any suggestions besides NO2 or a blower ?

Why would you add a blower or nitrous to get 550 HP :confused:
A solid roller would get you to that number if you're really obsessed..
I think the best advice to give you is to build your combo as spec'd and tune it and run it..period smile.gif
You'll have your hands full with that combo and a stick anyways..

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
Why would you add a blower or nitrous to get 550 HP :confused:
A solid roller would get you to that number if you're really obsessed..
I think the best advice to give you is to build your combo as spec'd and tune it and run it..period smile.gif
You'll have your hands full with that combo and a stick anyways.. I was just kidding about the blower and NO2 ;)
The reason I now bring up 550 Hp is because it seems that I have read other posts over the past several months where someone has basically thrown together a beefed up 454 and claimed over 600 Hp. It seems that I am struggling to get 500 Hp out of this motor. Your point and advice are well taken.
I guess the solid roller was the type of thing I was wondering about, but I have made my final decision on the hydrailic cam. Like you said Chris, I should have all I can handle with this combo. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

mr 4 speed is right I ran your combination on desktop dyno and came up with 513hp@6000 rpm and 491lbs of torque at 5000 and these are just conservative numbers,there not the same as putting your engine on an actual dyno they just let you play with the numbers to come up with a combo you think will work.I run the carter 172 pump and it will provide plenty of fuel for your combo graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Just a word of advice....on T&T days at the track, they usually do not "prep" the surface as they would do for competition. At my track, I can never hook on T&T, but on competition day I dead hook...invest the little extra cash and actually race..it gives invaluable experience...and a chance to cash in.

John, pay no attention to "claims" of a certain hp level - their guesses are no better than your guesses. I'll never figure out why so many people who have never put an engine on a dyno, or a car on a chassis dyno, and who have never yet gotten a drag strip pass out of their combo -> why are they so concerned about "naming" the hp level of their engine?

I'm not picking on you, but I will suggest that it is more fun to IGNORE the peanut gallery's questions about "how much horsepower". Seriously, when people ask, why not just say: "its enough", or "I don't know, what do you think?".

As Chris has suggested, the launch, chassis setup, driving skills are very important. I'll second the notion of the Carter pump.

To give you an idea of why I don't care what the hp numbers are, here is an example from my '65:
When I ran it on the chassis dyno with its tired 468 is showed 368 rear wheel hp - think about what that might imply for engine flywheel hp or drag strip times. Punch line: the next weekend after that chassis dyno pull the car ran a 12.02 e.t. at ~ 112 mph. Should be interesting to see what it does with the new 496 smile.gif

Thomas

It will be hard to get 10-1 with 2399's and 781 heads. 8.8 or less is more like it. I only get 9.6-9.8 with my 2399's and 110cc heads. 781's are 120 to 124cc or so. My 781's measure 122cc and the 2.19 valve is right out next to the edge of the chamber.
I haven't found a piston that will give 10.5 or so with a 781 yet.

i run the keith black hyper pistons. they are a .250 dome and claim 10.2-1 compression with a 119cc head. i think it might be a ls-6 replacement type. mike

A Carter 172 get the job done??? not if you listen to Comp/Ultradyne/Holley/Lunati Harold,,,he seems to think you need about 300 gph...oh,thats just his cams,but I'm running a Lunati solid,,oh, thats before he got there...nevermind :D I ran the street/strip carter mechanical last year and was able to maintain over 5psi on the big end,I've since added a Mallory Comp140 with no improvement,just more piece of mind I guess :confused:

Pay no attention to Rapid Robert, he's just bitter about something.
I have used and recommended the Carter 172gph pump for over 20 years(using 1/2" #8 line) and it easily supports a 600 BHP engine. I have no experience with it and 700 BHP engines.
If you have to run a mech pump, the Carter 172gph pump gets my vote every time.

UDHarold

BTW, the old Lunatis all seem to be symmetrical cams, and symmetrical cams always get by with marginal pumps, because their reversion destroys the need for high-volume fuel flow.....

Pay no attention to comp/ud/holley/lunati Harold, his old cam company is no longer in business ...How's that Harold :D

So THAT'S what you're bitter about!

I view this as a Happy New Year, with lots of promise of good things to come, and I try not to dwell on the last few bad years at UltraDyne. When I ran it, it did great. When I sat back and let the employees who wanted to run it to do so, their bickering and 'Empire-building' left it weakened, and unable to respond to changes in the business world, ie--- Federal Mogul's bankruptcy.
Bob, you should let the past be past, just remember the best. UltraDyne going out of business is not the best, but UltraDyne being built from nothing, and rising to world prominence in cam design, was the best. I'm happy for what part I had in it, and regret the past few years, where I let my employees, all old-time people, and I thought, my friends, do what they did.
Maybe you don't understand this, but I ended up with a good job, doing what I love and am best at, and I like to think that GOD heard my prayers, and granted my wishes.
Good Luck to you, Sir, and Happy New Year!

UDHarold

For sure a happy new year to everyone, and may one and all enjoy as much tire burning horsepower and low e.t.'s as they can handle.

I know that the Carter 172 can handle at least 640 hp, because that is the pump I'm running on the 496. It was still ~ 5 psi at 6,500, and that was even after pulling through the dyno's electric pump that was shut off for my dyno pulls.

Thomas

Happy New Year Harold

Aside from Rapid Bob having to voice his endless displeasure with UDHarold and Ultradyne, this post has been very productive and informed me and taught me alot. From now on Bob, I would appreciate that if you do not have something positive to offer in one of my posts, please just stay out :mad: Grow up.
Thanks for all of the info everybody. This 500+Hp engine is what I was after and it appears that I am finally there. :D I will be sure to run the Carter 172 and 1/2" line from back to front as UDHarold and others confirmed. This is one very fun project.
Happy new year y'all graemlins/waving.gif (yes, you too Bob)

Originally posted by Scott L:
It will be hard to get 10-1 with 2399's and 781 heads. 8.8 or less is more like it. I only get 9.6-9.8 with my 2399's and 110cc heads. 781's are 120 to 124cc or so. My 781's measure 122cc and the 2.19 valve is right out next to the edge of the chamber.
I haven't found a piston that will give 10.5 or so with a 781 yet. Hi Scott,
My machinist said that we would be able to do some decking and change head gaskets and get to 10:1. The "781" heads have a smaller cc chamber than 120cc I think. Mortec shows them at 118cc. My shop is going to cc the heads and do what it takes to get me to 10:1. Thanks for your info graemlins/thumbsup.gif

John
I just had my the big valves installed in my 781's. They were also decked, but just slightly. They ended up with 115-116 cc's. I also do not beleive you can get to 10:1 with the small dome - I am going with the .250 dome Keith Black pistons.

If you are ever in Austin you can drop me a line and swing by and look at my 781's at the machine shop.

Joe

Even with zero deck height and your 781's angle milled down to 112 cc's you will NOT get 10 to 1..its not possible! But that's OK..your combo will be fine even with 9.0 to 1

Originally posted by jrb56:
John
I just had my the big valves installed in my 781's. They were also decked, but just slightly. They ended up with 115-116 cc's. I also do not beleive you can get to 10:1 with the small dome - I am going with the .250 dome Keith Black pistons.

If you are ever in Austin you can drop me a line and swing by and look at my 781's at the machine shop.

Joe Thanks for the info Joe. OK guys I believe you :D I will not get to 10:1 CR with these TRW L2399 pistons. Would you guys suggest I get the
.250 dome Keith Blacks ? Please advise. :confused: I know that the 10:1 compression is not necessary for my bracket racing goals, but I had set a goal in my mind a long time ago to get this engine to 10:1 and would like to stay on that target.
Also, the Carter 172 fuel pump was mentioned and when I asked around at the parts stores last weekend, nobody knew what I was talking about. What specifically am I to ask for and where should I get it ? :confused:

Thanks as always..... :D

Check members classifieds, someone has one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=33555&item=2452304579

"Carter Aluminum Fuel Pump # 61045"

I already have mine, but got it second hand.

Joe

Bracket racing? With a 4 speed? smile.gif Man, you're a masochist!

Stick with your 10:1 comp goal. Don't listen to anyone claim anything about their HP. If they arent doing 120 mph in the 1/4 , it doesnt matter, they're not making 500 hp ( at least in a full 3800-3900 lbs Chevelle).

Its a bit higher dollar than you'd like, but the SRP medium domes should get you right in at under 10:1 with 118cc s and 039 gasket.

While the 850 is what you want for top end, I think you'll fund that launching the car, and consistency, might be better with a slightly smaller carb. But no big shakes.

Bracket racing = consistency, so if thats your goal, you migth want to start looking for a good ol T400!

(Harold, dont let a malconent suck you in. We all know RR is a fool at times, we try and ignore him.)

Oh and hey, I WAS GOING TO BID ON THAT PUMP MAN! smile.gif

graemlins/thumbsup.gif luv the attitude Harold. keep the faith. Dave

Harold has been doing this for a long time. Probably longer than I have been alive. I am 24 years old and I will be running my 66 chevelle for the first time. Harold has only helped me in my pursuit of speed and knowledge. Thanks Harold for always being a gentlemen.

I guess I will now have to re-think the pistons........ :rolleyes:
I will look for that Carter 61045 also.... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Yes, I understand that a T400 would be the much better choice for bracket racing and if I were "depending" on winning and money prizes, I would definitely have to switch to an automatic, but since this is strictly weekend fun and I prefer a nice 4-speed and clutch, it won't be a concern. Hopefully I will get good/consistent enough to win my share. Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated graemlins/waving.gif

Thanks again guys graemlins/waving.gif

Good luck with it John! Hey, mr68 is an inspiration to all us "clutch challenged guys"!!!

( BTW, the one thing I didnt do, and if I was doing weekend action I would, is a steel bellhouisng. P-i-t-a? yes, for sure, but safety man, it's worth it. )

And BTW, since Harold is a professional in the industry and visits here under a different presumption than any of us amatuers, don't y'all think that SLANDERING him, even on the web here, is something that legally actionable?

Silly web, eh? Hate to be in Bob's shoes when his child's play lands him in a suit with Holley's lawyers. He better be a rich man to pay for his "libelous fingertips".

Originally posted by 427L88:
Good luck with it John! Hey, mr68 is an inspiration to all us "clutch challenged guys"!!!

( BTW, the one thing I didnt do, and if I was doing weekend action I would, is a steel bellhouisng. P-i-t-a? yes, for sure, but safety man, it's worth it. )Thanks Gene, I had been thinking about that also lately and was going to post a question about that. I have a GM corvette aluminum stock bellhousing for it, but assumed now that my plan was leaning toward more HP, RPM's and speed that a steel housing would be recommended (like the roll cage I now need). The entire car is apart at this point, so it should be a simple change in plan, right ? Or is there something hard about installing or fitting one of these steel housings?

John,, I've only heard they can be a bugger to get centered on the crank centerline, then there is the pivot ball issue ( how long), and finally the clearance for headers/oil fileter isues. But man, when you pick up an alum GM bell and you lift it up ( its a friggin paperwieght ) you wonder how 500 ponies makes it through there, especially grabbing the stick at 6800 rpms.

Now that I'd like to race the car a bit more often, I'm remiss in not squaring that part away. Its my weak link right now. And I don;t feel like pulling antything to change it. Hope I keep my feet ( and other body parts :eek: ) on, until I get a scattershield in there.