I am gonna dust off the 69 chevelle and would like to get an idea on what parts i need to get into the 9ns . here is what i have so far . I have the money for a mosier rear , dont know what gear yet . have the money for a rossler trans . dont know which one yet . and here are the engines i have 555ci and a 496ci . would like to do it with the 496 ci on just the engine but i know that is just prob not gonna happen . also have the money saved for a new set of cncd heads . I dont wont to wast money on parts . I am saving now for suspension parts now . the car now has a 12 bolt with a eaton posi and 373 grs stock stuff . the 555ci has a set of afrs 325s on it now . remember pump gas .

I am gonna dust off the 69 chevelle and would like to get an idea on what parts i need to get into the 9ns . here is what i have so far . I have the money for a mosier rear , dont know what gear yet . have the money for a rossler trans . dont know which one yet . and here are the engines i have 555ci and a 496ci . would like to do it with the 496 ci on just the engine but i know that is just prob not gonna happen . also have the money saved for a new set of cncd heads . I dont wont to wast money on parts . I am saving now for suspension parts now . the car now has a 12 bolt with a eaton posi and 373 grs stock stuff . the 555ci has a set of afrs 325s on it now . remember pump gas . Why not just concentrate on that pretty Corvette until you get it lined out, instead of changing horses in the middle of the stream?

Should be easy, just take to an 1/8th mile track :D:beers:

the vette is pretty much all race and looking to put it back on the street when i get started . it never ends . but the chevelle im not , and i hate to say this as scared to damage . i can fix it . but fiberglass is a nother story and the vette is in the 9ns now ,dont have a clean pass to show but trust me on that one .

I would never claim to be one of the most experienced racers here by any means, cuz there are some guys on here who really know their stuff. But since your Chevelle will be considerably heavier than your Vette is, I'd have to say that the 555 CI motor would be the way to go in light of your statements. I'd also guess that a big solid roller cam would be in order too. BTW, maybe you might want to consider a Strange "S-60" rear with their street/stip 35 spline axels.

"9ns on pump gas" is a broad statement!

You first need to define your REAL goals, then criteria and finally and most important your realistic budget!

Is this going to be a street/strip car and if so what % realistically will be street and what % strip?

Or is it going to be a racer car that you want to run on pump gas?

Is that n/a, is that 9.99 or 9.0 in good air or the dead air of summer, bolt on suspension, 10" tires, weight?

You don't NEED a 496 or 555 and I NEVER recommend a stroker for these cars with stock type suspensions and 10" tires cause you'll spin the tires more often than not!!

MY pump gas 467 combo will run high 9's all day long/everyday in a Chevelle that's 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged!:yes:

Should be pretty easy with 500 cubes and aftermarket heads.
Cam in the 250/260 range, HP1000, Dart or Super Victor, and 10-11:1 comp.
Even at 3700lbs 700-725hp will get you in the 9s, and with 500 cubes its not that hard to make that power. Dont forget the fuel system and exhaust. And the car will have o be set up well (street/strip).

I wont be driving it to work if that is what your asking . mostly strip but i want a pump gas engine . dont like chasing race gas around . the thing is ED . your combo is proven and i dont have it and besides that if im correct i cant buy the suspension you have under yours cause the guy dosnt make it anymore . and dint you say your putting a 522 in it ? . Im not asking for anyone to do it for me just point me in the right direction . every thing that has been done to my chevelle was done by me . is there any one that has a chevelle that is in the 9 ns with the stock type suspension. and what kind of power to the wheels will be needed .

Ed, did we miss your 9 second timeslip??? Since it'll run 'em all day, I'm sure you have plenty of slips in your logbook you can shoot a pic of and post for us wannabes :D

You either want help or you want confirmation of what you have already decided to do/what is right, which is it?:sad:

What does my 522 which is NOT a stroker and being built for Pro Eliminator aka bracket racing have to do with your question, your car and your goals?

P.S. YOU can't get the suspension I'm running but I can and I can get it to those that NEED it!:yes:

You don't NEED a 496 or 555 and I NEVER recommend a stroker for these cars with stock type suspensions and 10" tires cause you'll spin the tires more often than not!!


496-----522----555 that is why i bring up your engine .And if i did not want help i would not have asked . boy your somthing else . but thank you for your input . I cant race every weekend . to fine tune my car so just looking for some help and the engines that i have is what i would like to use . if it can be done .

9Ns run just fine on pump gas when completely stock. ;)

http://www.iol.ie/~manister/tractortrouble/real_1940_9n.jpg

(sorry, nothing constructive to add, just a poke at the thread title :o )

those are great tractors .

It seems to me that he you have to consider how radical you would want to go with the ring & pinion gear ratio, and with the stall speed and camshaft duration for a street driven car. I'm sure plenty of guys get their Chevelles into the 9's with a 454,467, or whatever smaller motor they can come up with, but if it takes 4.11, or 4.56 gears tp do that, along with a 5,000 RPM stall speed, and a camshaft that won't allow any power nor throttle response to occur below 3,500 RPM, then that might not apply to someone who wants to build a car that will also be driven a lot on the street. That's why i suggested the bigger engine with more cubes.

As mentioned...you have to define streetable. There are lots of pump gas cars that aren't any fun to actually drive on the street. Sloppy converters, lots of gear, ungodly cams etc.

My Vette was designed to run high 9's on pump gas with no bottle or boost. The original goal was to be able to cruise anywhere on pump gas and then with just a few minor changes.....slicks, maybe uncap pipes..pull to the line and run at least a 9.99. I've had lots of the "life in the slow lane cars"....this one has to be able to *kick it* from a 50 mph roll and not be scared of most anything that is likely to pull up beside you.

The engine combo was sorted out a long time ago...nothing has changed in years. I've spent the last few years getting it from mid 10's to high 9's by playing with suspension and clutch. Since it's a convertible without a rollbar (until just recently), I only got a couple of runs in a year...tracks didn't like me much. So it took a while.

Anyway, the car weighs 3650 with me in it. I finally got it to hit a 9.94, a 9.90 and a 9.92 on consecutive runs the other day in 85* weather. All MPH was in the 140-141+ range.

This is a true street car with only 3.07 rear gears. When we were done, we installed street tires and drove it out of the track with the top down and went cruising in the countryside. Since it's a true dual purpose car, there are compromises that make it slower ET wise. I think in better/cooler weather there is a 9.80...maybe even a 9.70 something in it as it sits. My combo does it with HP. I don't ET as well...but I can run them down at the end. How many folks are trapping over 141 mph with their street cars?

Anyway it's a basic 540 deal. Callies crank, SCAT rods, SRP pistons.

11.06 compression, nicely ported Brodix 2Xtra's, ported Super Victor, 1050 Dominator, 266/272@.050 cam on a 112 LSA. .774(1.8's) and .731(1.7's) lift.

I've been running this combo for years...so I know it's reliable. With a well setup Chevelle and a good converter...no way it wouldn't run mid 9's for sure.

I'm sure you could do it with a well setup 496..but the 555 would just be a lot faster and easier.


Jim

What part of my 522 is not a stroker engine don't you understand?:sad:

Contrary to what 67RS502 posted, who races a 3100 lb. Camaro that has yet to make a 9 second pass, there is nothing "pretty easy" or cheap about running 9's n/a on pump gas in a Chevelle with stock style suspension and small tires that will weigh at least 3700 lbs. if not cut up/gutted!!:noway:

Damn Jim...that car boogies..3.07 gears,a stick and 540 in a 67 vette convertible..how friggin cool is that! :thumbsup:

great videos!

I didn't build my combo to run on pump but I did build it rather conservatively. It's a 13:1 468 with AFR 305's. The combo weighs just over 3500 lb. I've challenged myself as I'm trying to hook on 9" tires and on marginal tracks. Consistant bracket car it is not at this point. It does however run 9's in the heat and should easily go into the .70's or even a high .60 if the air cooperates this fall.

An inexpensive 496 stroker with a small gear such as 373 or 390 with a turbo 350 0r 410 gears and a glide can get you there even with just 10 inch slicks! Heres the catch-10 inch converter and a 125 shot of NOS! I have not sprayed my 489 yet because the converter is an 8 inch-too loose! You have to set the car up to leave soft that is the key! Take a look at many of the stock suspension classes down south and some are raelly running fast-however most are hi comp race gas engines! They drag the bumpers on little tires! Good luck and I hope you come back on here and let us know what you do!

thanks for all of the replys . my car is a stock chevelle prob 3800# or so . I am starting from the ground up. so that is why i ask . going to buy a part at a time and hope to run it this december so not that far off . it will have a cage of corse . I have some of my own ideas that i want to try but proven engine setups and trans will help alot . and thank you jim that is one bad vette. was thinking of a 411 gr with a 29.5 tire and a turbo 350 trans with a ultra bell from rossler trans .

"My combo does it with HP. I don't ET as well...but I can run them down at the end. How many folks are trapping over 141 mph with their street cars?"



I do :) On my first trip to the track it went 9.75@144.6.

I'm running 3.25 gears, only 10psi of boost, and it was 92*with 75% humidity. I was leaving easy with no boost (hence the crappy1.58-1.60 60fts), and the tranny signing slipping in 3rd gear. Going again this weekend to try to test a little. The last trip I spent most of the time doing license passes and only got 5 full passes to whole weekend. We will see what happens this time.

What part of my 522 is not a stroker engine don't you understand
here is the part i dont understand . you have not offered any help what so ever . no advise just talking about your car how bad it is and so forth . were is all of this great advise you have . I see . there is none . I asked for some tips on how to make my car faster and mabe tip the 9s on pump gas thanks for nothing FOOTBRAKER real helpful

It will be a lot easier with the 555" motor. It should be at least 4 tenths quicker and 6-8 MPH faster than a 496 with the same equipment. You can keep the cam and compression in the moderate range and it will not be hard to drive. The Corvette will be fast with any mid size engine @ 2700 lbs. If you watch the heavy items in your Chevelle it might only weigh mid 3700 lbs. That is all Bob West's car would weigh if Bob wasn't 290 lbs. himself. :D

yep the vette ran a 9.40 at 141 with the 496 in it with merlin heads and that was with the steep 488s in the rear and i weigh 248 so bob dont have me by much .

Jesse...that's scootin'!! Don't-cha just love that top end pull??


Now you have me thinking......wouldn't mine be fun with twin turbo's on it???



JIM

Well now I was just going to say MY combo does... naw kidding...


was going to add that any 9 sec street/strip Chevelle I've seen, and there arent many, one I can think of is a white 67, are using a power adder of one type or another. Turbos are neat as you can dial in the boost as the chassis can take it, rather than shocking it hard.

Shoot.....I've run 9's with 9.4:1 CR at 3600 lbs.
Not 10:1, not 11:1. I drive to the track. Every time.
It's a 498.
At 305 cc, the only thing that describes the heads is the shape of the intake ports. Oval vs. Rectangle becomes a moot point here. Ed's new Ovals will be bigger.
92 octane Shell is all I've ever run.
Foot braked to boot. And yes, I can bracket race the car. It's deadly consistent.
Your 69 Chevelle can match my weight easily. Esp since it's more strip than street.
FWIW....race gas made no diff for me.
Combo is 4.10 gears, TH400 with a less than optimal 9" ATI converter, 9" Hoosier radials. Dead hooks on street night tracks as long as the slicks are good. (The Hoosier radials)

I've run this for 3 years and have hardly spent the time or money to science it out. Could go 9.70's if I did I,m sure. (That's time and experimentation and money)

Not sure why folks mentioned power adders.....you didn't mention that in the orig post.

A 522 BTW is an overbored 502...pretty simple.....not sure about the stock 502 blocks....they are thin and can crack.

Rolo Tomossi

there has been some good copy over the years on engine combo's, if you have followed Tood G's BU he has a well thought out 454 running in the 9's, not sure if he's still on pump gas though-the engine masters stuff in the mags had a few engines with 11-1 comp. on pump gas-since you didnt mention anything about street, just pump gas, low end driveability may not be an issue, so that would leave cam options wide open-i would spend a dime and look up some of the engine builders who built engines for pump gas drag cars, if their willing to talk to you, could dial you right in
as far as stroked engines and stock susp., there is a local guy running low 8's in the 1/4 on drag radials, 71 chevelle, huge motor, nothing trick underneath, just a foot with a good feel
i just ran a 9.93 in my pump gas 70, all steel full int., power everything, 3720 lbs., but i have a procharger, but mild cam, small heads, etc., so if all that stuff was changed might be close w/o the procharger
there are a couple guys runnin 540's on pump gas w/chevelles in the high 9's
just make the cam, converter, all the parts match-good luck

the point i was trying to make about the 522 is it is gonna make the same power. Footbraker stated you cant hook a stroker . the 522 makes the same power no matter were you get it from . look at Reher Morrison there 522 makes the 10 less horse power than there 540 and the same TQ and you can look at any of the top engine builders and it is the same or very close. you can stroke a 327ci but that does not mean its gonna run with a 406ci so i disagree about the stroker not working deal .

A 522 is a 4.00 stroke and a 4.560 bore.

Hey Jim, is it time to hang a couple of hair dryers on that 540 ??

John

You don't NEED a 496 or 555 and I NEVER recommend a stroker for these cars with stock type suspensions and 10" tires cause you'll spin the tires more often than not!!

A 522 is a 4.00 stroke and a 4.560 bore.

yea i know what a 522 is . and the only reason i bring it up is . it is a 500 inch engine and footbraker is telling me my 496 wont work cause its a stroker . so i disagree . thats all .

It's clear to me you don't want advice, rather confirmation of what you have already decided to do/is right/will work.:sad:

So this will be my last post on this thread!

Funny that there is NO ONE that posts on this forum regularly that is running in the 9's n/a NOT a one time 9.99 with a nose heavy BB Chevelle on small tires with a stock style suspension and pump gas:noway: yet we read responses from some stating it's no problem and pretty easy!:sad:

So easy THEY haven't done it!:noway:

I didnt realize Ron was running 9's. Have a buddy building one of those "real street" or whatever cars where you drive 300 miles from track to track and run. Those cars have to run 9's, deep 9's to be competitive. The ex pro mod crew chief isnt building something as small as 496 or 522 for that duty! Maybe power adders arent allowed ( he's a NOS/EFI guru). All I know is that it's bigger than 632 ci. He shooting for high 8's easy 9's on bad tracks.

Easy 9's, yeah. :rolleyes:

Not a stock 69 Camaro, although it looks like a doorslammer with glass.

He'll be spending near 40K I should imagine. :eek: Still, being a ex pro mod crew chief, he's got a good head about him... bigger is better. 555!

BTW, I dont know where the dis-info comes form, but there are a number of stroked bbc's here cutting sub 1.40 60" times on 10" tires.

That's hooking and not spinning right?

Yeah, I thought so.

Ed, he is asking which of the two engines he already has would work best. Not what new engine to build. My opinion would be the 555.

I have a friend that races a '70 something Chevelle. With his NA/496 it went 1.37 60's on 10" tires. Some where around 6.40's. Weighs around 3600 and the suspension is far from sorted out. It has a 555 now, and he hasen't had good luck with the first 4 converters he has tried. Will be getting a Hughes next.

Here's a 4k lb non gutted Monte that runs 5.60's on small tires/stock type suspension, in 4k+ DA's. Would be much faster at lower altitude! All steel except the hood, full very nice interior. I don't know what size the engine is, maybe a 555. Not pump gas, but it would likely run bottom nines- high eights. It does have nitrous because he runs in a heads up nitrous class. There are many fast and heavy cars around the country, the few places people post about them on the internet aren't where you will see all of them.

http://205.240.64.155/~jcampbell/monte.jpg

It's clear to me you don't want advice, rather confirmation of what you have already decided to do/is right/will work.:sad:

So this will be my last post on this thread!

Funny that there is NO ONE that posts on this forum regularly that is running in the 9's n/a NOT a one time 9.99 with a nose heavy BB Chevelle on small tires with a stock style suspension and pump gas:noway: yet we read responses from some stating it's no problem and pretty easy!:sad:

So easy THEY haven't done it!:noway:

Ed, you are a wealth of knowledge..........I hope you stay here for a while this time.

Ed, he is asking which of the two engines he already has would work best. Not what new engine to build.

Here's a 4k lb non gutted Monte that runs 5.60's on small tires/stock type suspension, in 4k+ DA's. Would be much faster at lower altitude! All steel except the hood, full very nice interior. I don't know what size the engine is, maybe a 555. Not pump gas, but it would likely run bottom nines- high eights. It does have nitrous because he runs in a heads up nitrous class. There are many fast and heavy cars around the country, the few places people post about them on the internet aren't where you will see all of them.

http://205.240.64.155/~jcampbell/monte.jpg
Jay, I told him I wouldn't use EITHER!

As to this monte, share with us ALL the details that you KNOW, not assume!

Let's start with who owns it/who built it cause it sure looks like Alan Wittaker's that I KNOW many of the details about:yes:

I'd also be willing to bet that car don't weigh 4000 lbs. knowing it's "full very nice interior" ain't stock with fiberglass racing seats and it has a glass hood!:noway:

You think maybe some other components might have been removed and/or replaced with lighter race versions?;)

Jay, I told him I wouldn't use EITHER!

As to this monte, share with us ALL the details that you KNOW, not assume!

Let's start with who owns it/who built it cause it sure looks like Alan Wittaker's that I KNOW many of the details about:yes:

I'd also be willing to bet that car don't weigh 4000 lbs. knowing it's "full very nice interior" ain't stock with fiberglass racing seats and it has a glass hood!:noway:

You think maybe some other components might have been removed and/or replaced with lighter race versions?;)

Belongs to a guy named Brad Swift, from Midland Texas. Runs in the West Texas True 10.5 races out here. I posted what I have been told. I do not have all the details. When the owner of the car says it weighs 4k, I don't argue the point. (unlike some:D) His dad races another heavy car, and he has joked about starting a new class, West Texas True Two Ton, because both cars are so heavy. I don't know many details about the car, but if it weighs 3900 or 4k, the difference really doesn't matter to me, because the performance would be pretty close in the 1/8th mile. These guys don't want to just go 9's, they want bottom 9's or 8's, because thats what it takes to win these classes. Although they almost always run just 1/8th mile. Similar type of classes and rules that Harold Suttons son runs.

Jay, I'm not going to argue the point but I'll bet that car don't weigh a pound over 3700 and that's probably pushing it since I haven't seen a pic of the interior, engine bay, suspension and trunk!

I KNOW THESE cars, KNOW what they weigh stock, KNOW what they weigh with aluminum heads, glass hoods, racing buckets, sans power steering, power brakes, wiper motor, heater, yada, yada, yada and KNOW what they can get down to and still appear to be stock/2 tons!:yes:

Frankly, I don't understand why you mention this car which clearly is an apples to watermelon comparison and NOT an example of what this poster states he wants to build/do.:noway:

Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:

It's clear to me you don't want advice, rather confirmation of what you have already decided to do/is right/will work.

So this will be my last post on this thread!
what advice ? you have said nothing helpful . now i know the performance of your car . ok what shocks you got what springs you got ? I know what suspension you have . what converter and so forth . if you dont want to tell that is fine to . but show me where you have said anything that will help me . not to get caught up with a guy with a sorry attatude . you have a nice car and it is fast . but trust me its not the fastest ive seen on a small tire . and that goes for chevelles to . any way .

and to the other guys thank you for the helpful post. i am taking notes .

Frankly, I don't understand why you mention this car which clearly is an apples to watermelon comparison and NOT an example of what this poster states he wants to build/do.

Yes I know this is nothing really like he wants to do, this is an example to the extreme. May be an apples to guacamole comparison! I've been wanting to post a picture of this car for a while because I think it's pretty cool! I love the old Montes! I just don't see many of these big cars running 5.60's! Alot of these guys use ballast so weight may have been moved around a bit.;)

Ed, it really just boils down to some people(including myself) just don't have the time, or don't want to spend the time/effort/money to get their combo dialed in to 100% the best it can be. I applaud the ones who do it, myself and many others just have not gotten there yet(and may never!). Don't take it so personal!:)

One more thing! You don't NEED a 496 or 555 and I NEVER recommend a stroker for these cars with stock type suspensions and 10" tires cause you'll spin the tires more often than not!! I totally understand your point in this. But I also understand his point of using what he already has.

You cannot..........I repeat CANNOT run nines on pump gas! Its impossible and has never been done!

LMAO! :D

.Im waiting on a guy to send me the link of his stock body truck that weighs 4400* and has ac and a bench seat that runs 10.6s @ 127 that has the stock suspension stock front coils stock rear leafs with caltraks he runs this with small block . on pump gas . ill post it as soon as i get it . its not a chevelle but there are cars out there trust me . IMAKEHP is one guy that post on here that is in the 8s . oh and the truck runs a 1.4 60ft not bad at all. for a truck. my point if your wondering is that i gonna try it and will be glad to tell anyone who wants to here it ,how i did it. also waiting on a link of a chevelle with 10" tire that ran in the 7s so ill post it when i get it . the car is kinda rough and looks like it broke in half when it left but neet to watch

Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:

STILL waiting!:boring:

I fail to see what a 4400 lb. truck with a small block and leaf spring suspension that has run 10.60's has do with a 3700+ lb. Chevelle that will run a BB and whose goal is 9's n/a on pump gas just as I fail to see what a purpse built race car with a high compression nitrous engine and 4 link/coil over suspension has do to with a stated street strip car that will run a stock suspension and pump gas!:sad:

Jay, I'm not going to argue the point but I'll bet that car don't weigh a pound over 3700 and that's probably pushing it since I haven't seen a pic of the interior, engine bay, suspension and trunk!

I KNOW THESE cars, KNOW what they weigh stock, KNOW what they weigh with aluminum heads, glass hoods, racing buckets, sans power steering, power brakes, wiper motor, heater, yada, yada, yada and KNOW what they can get down to and still appear to be stock/2 tons!:yes:

Frankly, I don't understand why you mention this car which clearly is an apples to watermelon comparison and NOT an example of what this poster states he wants to build/do.:noway:

Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:


Will you give me a chance to get my combination Set Up for 9's ...no patience !!! :D

I'm not sticking up for Ed but the majority miss all his points. Now that I have a decent big block I realize hooking isn't too easy. Unless you've gone 9's in a heavy car you can't say it is as easy as throwing some parts in it.

Ed rags on "test and tuners" but there is a big difference between someone that just wants a number, which is fine, and doesn't care if their car comes close to hooking 80% of the time. If you are a serious bracket racer which he is then you want your car to ET repeatedly within .01-.02 in order to consistently win.

Asking for what a persons goal is a very important place to start. You have to decide if you want to be consistent. You then have to decide how reliable and how streetable you want your car to be, etc, etc. Advice to accomplish any of this varies depending on the goals.

The "oval" vs "rect" debate is somewhat senseless. People should be asking other questions than just categorizing a head into a geometrical shape. Ed's new 522 will have an "oval shaped port", but there are other design features that will make that head what it needs to be for his combination. It certainly won't resemble a factory GM oval port head in just about any manner. Calling his new head an "oval port head" just doesn't mean much.

Ed can come across abrassive, but I'd say if you don't want serious advice, then don't ask for his.


Plus I guess I enjoy reading his soap operas on DRR. Good for a morning laugh.

Tom, take all the time you need but as you know, 10.31 is a longggggggggggggg way from 9.99 no mind in the 9's!;)

Doug...you get it:yes: but I have to disagree with you my new heads DO /WILL resemble a factory GM oval port head in just about EVERY manner just larger ports!!:yes:

1st make a goal then a plan.
Your goal is 9s on pump gas @ 3800lbs.
Then the plan:
Ok so to run high 9s @ 3800lbs (say around 135mph) will take around 725-750hp.
I still say its easy to do, especially with a 555. Look at Jims (540HotRod) 540 it made 825hp on pump gas. You could get by with 100hp less and still run high 9s. So build a 496 or 555 that makes the power needed! (yes it would be easier with the 555, but the 496 could do it too).
Then do the right drivetrain, and set the car up right, (which I think will be the harder part) Then its gonna take some beatin on it at the track to get it to work - and run 9s.

Tom, take all the time you need but as you know, 10.31 is a longggggggggggggg way from 9.99 no mind in the 9's!;)


Ain't that the truth !!!! LOL...

Tom, take all the time you need but as you know, 10.31 is a longggggggggggggg way from 9.99 no mind in the 9's!;)

Doug...you get it:yes: but I have to disagree with you my new heads DO /WILL resemble a factory GM oval port head in just about EVERY manner just larger ports!!:yes:


If I was designing a clean sheet "oval port" head I would have the top of the port be raised rather than low like a factory head. I would think the short turn and other areas could be better optimized. Kind of like filling in the floor of a rect. head.

Gonna be interested to see how your new engine runs. I assume Tracy will dyno it like everything he does or is he not assembling the complete engine?

here is what im starting with . the car had a 468 in it .
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o62/coop31_photo/?action=view&current=DSCF0602.jpg

Doug, I had intented to use a raised runner oval port head but frankly I can't justify the $10,000+ cost with manifold for a bracket engine.:noway:

Tracy will assemble my engine and dyno it but you know how I feel about dyno's!

The time slip is all that is meaningful!

or here is one to
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o62/coop31_photo/DSCF0602.jpg

A company could design a raised runner oval that uses factory or close to factory valvetrain parts. My buddy and I wanted to do that for the company we work for, but that ain't gonna happen. Wouldn't be like a real high raised runner like a race oval, but would just need a new intake. It would be questionable what the market would be, but the heads would cost what a std alum. BBC would cost now.

The Weld Tech/Brodix raised runner oval port head that won the '05 EMC costs $4,300 bare!:yes:

I love all of this stuff:boxing: What else would i be doing at work if it wasnt for all this ? fowler that is my goal with my 67 chevelle ! High 9s or low 9s or any where in between. It dont matter ! I WILL have a 9 second STREET CAR on PUMP GAS .:yes: Did i say on a budget ? NO :noway:, But will it happen ? HELL YEA ITS GONNA HAPPEN !! (o ya can someone give me a loan so i can finish it NOW :pout:) !! Dont let this person get you flustered. Use the 555 and put some money in the suspension and let it fly . And show him there is other people that can BUILD AND RACE a FAST STREET CAR !! Will it be .01 to .02 consistant probally not ! Have fun ! this is supposed to be a fun sport ! Dont let others bring YOUR FUN to an end !! THIS is why i dont post hear very often, But there is a wealth of info from some pretty Great guys ,hotrod540,harrold,mike lewis . that is just to name a few ! i will continue lurking here but very rarely show my ugly mug :D:thumbsup:

o ya here is one ! i hope he dosent mind me posting this here! http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3545524Video:
Click here to watch Launches-35
67 Chevelle 555CI 3700#, 10.5 tire, thru mufflers
60' time 1.363
9.65@140MPH

I hear you cant get them big stroker to hook on smal tire.
SKI is the man;)

The devil is in the details which you failed to mention...

14:1 555 and guess who's suspension he's running, a suspension he never knew existed from a guy he never heard of until he read MY posts and saw photos of MY car!!:yes:

Ski boy and his buddies along with the Booze Brothers tried in vein to get that car to hook and FAILED miserably!

The Weld Tech/Brodix raised runner oval port head that won the '05 EMC costs $4,300 bare!:yes:

Low volume, high development, niche market makes for a high cost! I'm sure they have a lot less in the manufacturing of them, but need to recoup their development costs.

The devil is in the details which you failed to mention...

14:1 555 and guess who's suspension he's running, a suspension he never knew existed from a guy he never heard of until he read MY posts and saw photos of MY car!!:yes: Hi Ed, I think the whole world has heard of Alf Weibe. Has he started producing his suspension again? Your also right in the fact that the details are all important.

damit boy ! now that is what i am talking about . ski that is very nice . and with the merlin heads "wow" I see it has the ed -webie suspension :) .or is it alf webie hard to tell .

Harold the whole world heard about it from ME on the net and that's a FACT!

Alf never built this suspension to market/sell and has no interest in doing so.

I can get along with a few others!:yes:

But ski can't get it and better hope he never breaks it!!:noway:

Low volume, high development, niche market makes for a high cost! I'm sure they have a lot less in the manufacturing of them, but need to recoup their development costs. I've heard that a 525" engine from BES, prepped to run competitive times, costs "33K" dollars and all the high flowing, heavily ported heads will most likely run you over "10 Grand". If one is going to build a fast bracket car you can just start with a "565", "572" or (my personal favorite), the "598" and low nines should come easily.

Harold, PLEASE have all these "fast bracket cars" with 565's, 572's and 598's running low 9's on 10" tires and with stock type suspensions line up with me!!:yes:

I'll take these 1st round ducks everytime who WILL blow the tires off more often than not!!:yes::hurray:

Harold, PLEASE have all these "fast bracket cars" with 565's, 572's and 598's running low 9's on 10" tires and with stock type suspensions line up with me!!:yes:

I'll take these 1st round ducks everytime who WILL blow the tires off more often than not!!:yes::hurray: Our 598 is on 10.5" tires and has already run 9.31@ 145.59 with a 3.50 gear so now it's time to see how much is left on the table with more gear. It went 9.462 @ 147.94 with a 'glide and tight converter, still had the 3.50 gear and has always been footbraked. I'll post back when we run it with the 389 gear.

Harold, your son's car does NOT have a pump gas engine, stock type suspension and does not weigh 3700+ lbs.!:noway:

Further it is NOT a bracket car!:noway:

what did you have to do to get the 10.5 on it Harold. that is some nasty times. wow"

Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:
STILL waiting!


http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o45/70camino/?action=view&current=10.flv

3880 lbs., ALL STEEL, pump gas, stock style suspension, 10" tires, full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, yada, yada, yada and oval port heads!!

Nuff said!:yes:

So this will be my last post on this thread!

your not a man of your word are you . and besides that im still waiting on the part were you give some of that great advise you have . just page after page of you taking credit for some guys suspension set up .

You don't want my advice therefore you'll get none!

Besides, it's "pretty easy" to run 9's on pump gas in a 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB Chevelle with 10" tires and stock style suspension, so you don't need it!

P.S. nowhere did I take credit for designing Alf's suspension but I will take some credit for making it compete/work better as well suppling it to those I deem worthy!!:p

what advise ?

im still waiting . just hot air . ed. webie you got somthing to ad or do you want to talk about your self some more :)

THE PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE

and I've got BOTH!



http://www.davemilcarek.com/051307/images/5-13-1D%20027.jpg


http://www.davemilcarek.com/051307/images/5-13-1D%20076.jpg

http://www.davemilcarek.com/031107/images/3-11-2S%20126.jpg

let me ask you a simple question . has your car ever ran in the 9s ? and if so how often .

That question has been answered elsewhere in this forum!

Has your tube chassis RACE car with it's 14:1 555 ever run in the 9's?

Don't bother answering WE know the answer!:noway:

You have to lighten up a bit FOOTBRAKER...sheesh!

THE PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE

and I've got BOTH!



http://www.davemilcarek.com/051307/images/5-13-1D%20027.jpg


http://www.davemilcarek.com/051307/images/5-13-1D%20076.jpg

http://www.davemilcarek.com/031107/images/3-11-2S%20126.jpg

I don't care who runs what, but that is one of the sickest launches I've seen...:eek::eek::eek:

Been a long time since I have seen so many "me's" and "I's" in the same thread. I wonder who might be back??

I'll take these 1st round ducks everytime who WILL blow the tires off more often than not!!:yes::hurray:

Hey FOOTBRAKER, speaking of first round ducks and blowing the tires off...according to Island Dragway's website, YOU were a first round duck this past Saturday, running a 10.89 on your 10.46 dial-in. The 126mph trap speed leads one to believe you left all the ET on the starting line, i.e. wheelspin. Maybe you better call Alf and ask him what to do. See link from Island, E165 Ed Bigley...

http://www.islanddragway.com/results07/heavy.htm

Thanks Frank and I've got more...many, many more and videos!:yes:

Want to see them?;)

E165 Ed Bigley W. Milford Nj 68 Chevelle 0.018 10.46 10.89 126.51

LMAO

were ? you see you got nothing to add just more of the same . who is we . you mean you . no i have never been in the 9s . the car has however . you see that is how you answer a question . not with a additional question . why dont you just say no my car has never been in the 9s . its not so hard . and if your car has not been in the 9s then you got nothing for this thread . and to add to that let me try this one more time. i answered your question now back to mine
has your car ever ran in the 9s ? and if so how often

P.S. nowhere did I take credit for designing Alf's suspension but I will take some credit for making it compete/work better as well suppling it to those I deem worthy!!:p

10.89 on a 10.46 dial, that should sell a lot of suspension pieces, no doubt...

Mikey you need to get your facts straight!

The points and results haven't been updated in weeks!

I runnered up this past Saturday and that was my 4th final so far this season!

Further, I've already qualified for the bracket finals, finishing 4th in the 1st half of the points season, have won over $2,000 to date and I'm currently leading the points aka #1!!:yes::hurray:

Thanks for your interest!:p

BTW, my son is also leading the points in Jr.A!:hurray:

Maybe you better start running at tracks that don't post results on the world wide web.

Nice light though, .018, you have a box in the car now?

Maybe you should edit your posts that attempt to discredit my ride/performance but FAIL MISERABLY!!:sad::p

I'll call Island and let them know that the run sheets they posted must be wrong.

I'd help you Fowl69 but as you can probably tell from the times in my sig, I have my car FAR from figured out.

My motor is far from pump gas but let me tell ya, w/ nearly 1100hp on tap, 9's are not a problem. Even though so far it's been impossible to get my car to hook or even go straight down the track, w/ all that hp 9's are inevitable even when it's just a partial pass lol.

So the only advice I can give you is hp...make as much as you can and then sort it out from there.

We have similar goals except I want 8's on race gas alone on stock suspension.

10.89 on a 10.46 dial, that is one deadly bracket car. I hope I never have to face you in eliminations.

Compulink StarTrak PRO Elimination Results 6/2/07
ROUND 1
1040 TIM PEOTTER NEW PROVIDENCE NJ 72 CHEVELLE 0.008 9.37 9.385 138.53
1772 BEN CARDUCCI PURCHASE NY 57 CORVETTE 0.067 12.26 12.207 109.87
129B JAMES PERRONE SHIRLEY NY 69 NOVA 0.033 10.73 10.779 117.3
N111 CRAIG NEILL MEDFORD NY 71 NOVA 0.238 10.05 10.082 133.79
P125 LARRY PAPPAS WAYNE NJ 69 CAMARO 0.033 10.9 10.882 115.2
C112 BRUCE COOKE POMPTON LK. NJ 71 CHARGER 0.051 12.4 12.374 106.22
D196 RICK CONSTABLE NEW MILFORD NJ 87 CAMARO 0.02 10.65 10.633 124.11
B135 BOB BOUCHER RANDOLPH NJ 27 FORD 0.106 10.37 10.319 127.13
123B CHARLIE BAKER JR. HASKELL NJ 87 MUSTANG 0.144 10.07 10.16 118.16
9293 ROBERT ZETTERBERG GR. MEADOWS NJ 87 MONTE 0.07 12 12.216 112.66
D187 JEFF RAHNER CALIFON NJ 66 CHEVY 0.053 15.54 15.596 84.46
J197 JOE LISA VERNON NJ 70 NOVA 0.086 10.56 10.556 125.52
1174 BILL VOELZKE LAKE HIAWATHA NJ 68 DART 0.025 10.89 10.846 121.81
K130 KEVIN MURPHY BUSHKILL PA 76 NOVA -0.011 10.83 10.803 123.77
151Z JOHN MORENO STATEN ISLAND NY 27 T ROADSTER 0.077 9.49 9.504 127.57
J135 JOE MORENA MASPETH NY 79 CAMARO 0.027 12.07 12.181 106.88
M559 MIKE TIMPSON CALIFON NJ 69 CAMARO 0.031 9.78 15.968 33.18
K165 STEVEN OPETOSKY THOMPSON RIDGE NY 1971 NOVA -0.002 10.8 16.469 36.04
1587 RON STERNOSKY CLARKS CUMMIT PA 65 CHEVELLE 0.046 12.76 12.827 103.55
8891 RONALD BOOKER UNION NJ 69 NOVA -0.001 10.23 10.137 131.93
1477 BILL HAKUCSA FLANDERS NJ 68 CAMARO 0.034 11.37 11.419 113.42
191Q RICHARD MARTIN HEWITT NJ 81 FORD FAIRMONT 0.092 9.9 9.93 137.81
E176 CRAIG SONDERFAN MIDLAND PARK NJ 69 CHEVELLE 0.048 10.44 10.407 128.41
158N ED BROOKS DEER PARK NY 57 CHEVY -0.097 9.9 10.006 137.48
B119 MARK BOGUSAT WHARTON NJ 79 MALIBU 0.041 10.82 11.045 117.86
Q143 LOU BUXBAUM GLENWOOD NJ 67 FIREBIRD 0.105 10.9 11.08 122.14
T135 BOB BEUCLER WOODBRIDGE NJ 64 DODGE 0.043 11.51 11.531 107.89
1061 NANCY SNYDER ANDOVER NJ 66 NOVA 0.049 10.84 10.839 122.86
1206 LEIGH RATZKOVICH METUCHEN NJ 68 MUSTANG 0.025 10.92 11.029 109.39
127 LEWIS WEEKS W. CALDWELL NJ 78 MALIBU 0.062 11.71 11.835 112.58
M147 MIKE WILLIAMS HIGHLAND LAKES NJ 79 FIREBIRD 0.043 11.18 11.25 118.84
144H RANDY POBUTKIEWICZ STILLWATER NJ 1969 CHEVY PU -0.003 10.9 10.794 122.83
4460 0.056 11.1 11.225 108.62
A198 TOM DICKERSON SOUTHOLD NY 68 GTS 0.028 11.02 11.351 118.46
P121 KEVIN PELANNE RIEGELSVILLE PA 67 CHEVELLE 0.067 9.83 9.858 134.7
L180 JOHN LOBOSCO RIVERDALE NJ 71 NOVA 0.023 10.73 10.727 122.32
1034 KEN DICKERSON CATCHOGUE NY 70 SUPER BEE 0.07 10.35 10.373 122.12
7845 JOHN KULA CHESTER NY 72 CHARGER 0.051 11.23 11.31 118.12
1031 JEFF JEWELL BANGOR PA 67 Chevy 0.032 10.3 10.423 109.93
167L JEFF SPADACCINI WANAQUE NJ 69 CAMARO 0.199 9.75 9.766 139.8
1369 STEVE GILLAN STILLWATER NJ 66 NOVA 0.008 10.37 10.383 128.69
E107 SCOTT EMBLEY SAYLORSBURG PA 69 CHEVELLE 0.044 13.85 13.768 95.35
T172 LOU TULLO JR. CLINTON NJ 80 MONZA 0.081 9.44 9.426 141.52
1785 JOHN DICKSON ROCKAWAY NJ 91 CAPRICE -0.059 17.99 18.018 75.79
1934 MARIO DONATO LK. HOPATCONG NJ 81 CAMARO 0.108 11.15 11.367 118.27
R167 RICH ZIEGLER MASTIC NY 81 MALIBU 0.015 12.6 12.316 111.05
M172 WALT MORGAN CLARKS SUMMIT PA. 69 CAMARO 0.006 11.16 11.19 119.71
K164 RICH GALLI Washington Twp NJ 82 Pontiac 0.036 10.24 10.284 129.05
W129 BILL CERALLI WANAQUE NJ 79 MALIBU 0.003 10.46 10.516 125.39
1877 SCOTT HAKUCSA FLANDERS NJ 1968 CAMARO 0.004 10.75 10.833 125.03
B154 GREG MYERS DUNELLEN NJ 69 CAMARO 0.084 10.52 10.633 120.64

E165 ED BIGLEY W. MILFORD NJ 68 CHEVELLE 0.018 10.46 10.89 126.51

1773 RICH SECULA WASHINGTON NJ 69 CHEVELLE 0.019 9.4 9.584 141.5
2026 MATT SIEDENBURG PARSIPPANY NJ 73 CHALLENGER 0.007 11.63 11.626 111.29
1970 TRIY GREEN PALMERTON PA 70 CHALLENGER 0.067 9.2 9.22 143.54
2113 RANDY SNIDER SR. SELLERSVILLE PA 71 DART 0.064 13.9 14.042 96.71
9818 RON KEEGAN RUTHERFORD NJ 1971 NOVA 0.057 10.53 10.606 124.52
85 FRANK MAFFIORE MONROE TOWNSHIP NJ 68 CAMARO 0.069 14.36 14.433 93.4

as you know, 10.31 is a longggggggggggggg way from 9.99 no mind in the 9's!;)

10.46 is even longgggger still...and 10.89 ain't even in the same zipcode.

Sure got quiet in here all of the sudden...

What part of this don't you understand!!:sad::p


Mikey you need to get your facts straight!

The points and results haven't been updated in weeks!

I runnered up this past Saturday and that was my 4th final so far this season!

Further, I've already qualified for the bracket finals, finishing 4th in the 1st half of the points season, have won over $2,000 to date and I'm currently leading the points aka #1!!:yes::hurray:

Thanks for your interest!:p

BTW, my son is also leading the points in Jr.A!:hurray:

I dont think he can answer a simple question . so i will ask once more has your car ever been in the 9s ?

and just to refresh just a bit i wanted to know what it would take to get in the 9s on pump gas do you have anything to add that will help me towards that goal .other than snid remarks . now who is waiting ?

Bigley, are you getting angry? LMAO

look at all of your post on this thread and tell me if any of them are in anyway constructive or will help anyone ,thanks for nothing footbraker .just a simple post turned into daily aframation . look at me ! look at me ! come on now your car is not in the 9s now is it.

Contrary to what 67RS502 posted, who races a 3100 lb. Camaro that has yet to make a 9 second pass

No his car isnt in the 9s, but he sure is quick to point out others who arnt in the 9s either;)

Not that I care nor is this about my ride vs. your ride but a 10.07 is not only quicker than a 10.08 but the engine that powers my ALL steel 3880 lb. ride with full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, wiper motor, heater, yada, yada, yada makes far more power than the one that powers your 3130 lb. ride that is cut up/partially gutted, missing it's front bumper and wheel wells and my car's performance farrrrrrrrrrrr more impressive!:yes:

http://home.centurytel.net/40Coupe/images/misc/Ed/motor4.jpg

I'm done and to the more than 3 dozen that have PM and emailed in the past few days, sit tight I'll answer all your questions!:yes:

Not that I care nor is this about my ride vs. your ride but a 10.07 is not only quicker than a 10.08 but the engine that powers my ALL steel 3880 lb. ride with full factory interior makes far more power than the one that powers your cut up/partially gutted, bumper and wheel wells removed 3130 lb. ride!:yes:

Ed if you didnt care - you wouldnt have posted that.
And yea, your engine makes more power then mine (and your car is quicker) - I'm man enough to admit it, but my car is more streetable (got yea) haha
Good thing that my goal in life isnt to better then Ed.

Keep dreaming!:sad:

Your car is not more streetable but ILLEGAL to be driven on the streets, roads, highways in NJ and and most every state!:yes:

some more of that wealth of knowledge you have .

Not that I care nor is this about my ride vs. your ride but a 10.07 is not only quicker than a 10.08 but the engine that powers my ALL steel 3880 lb. ride with full factory interior makes far more power than the one that powers your cut up/partially gutted, bumper and wheel wells removed 3130 lb. ride!
realy nice and thanks for sharing that 10.07 were getting close you keep it up that thing will be in the 8s tonight sometime

Yeah well guess what...my car isn't very street friendly at all but it will blow the doors off of most anything else on the street! :D

However once (and if) I ever get my 8 second time slip I might really detune my 632 so it is more streetable. Even if I drop the compression and take some cam out of it, I should still have a 9 second pump gas car.

Not that I care nor is this about my ride vs. your ride but a 10.07 is not only quicker than a 10.08 but the engine that powers my ALL steel 3880 lb. ride with full factory interior makes far more power than the one that powers your cut up/partially gutted, bumper and wheel wells removed 3130 lb. ride!:yes:

:sad: FOOTBRAKER.....Ed....I have been gleefully following this post anticipating your input on what it takes to run 9's on pump gas. Your car is bad azz, no doubt, but what makes it that way? I would give my left pinky (not really) for a car THAT nice which performs so well.

Are there TOO MANY items to cover? Dont know where you started originally? Is it a deal where you have tweaked a thousand insignificant items to get VERY significant results (as seen in your pictures)? You dont believe in strokers (got it), you like ovals (got it), you dont need a dominator (got that too)...so if you had to tell some joker what the TOP FIVE items to plan/tweak/install/etc...what would that be?

1) ?
2) ?
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?

I sent you a PM a day or two ago about cylinder heads, no response. I am not a bracket racer and I dont know how busy you are so no big deal. It was worth a shot. But you have plenty of time to respond on this thread. So I am hoping you will post something besides "the proof" because we got it. :yes:

Thanks.

(I get the feeling that you really like to bust people's balz :cool:)

Read the bottom of post #99 above then read post #49 in this thread

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177245

STILL waiting!

So far we heard about a truck with a small block running 10.60's, a purpose built race cars with high compression nitrous engine running running 8's and another purpose built race car running 9.30's with a high compression 598 but not 1 BB street/strip Chevelle weighing 3700+ lbs. running 9's on pump gas with 10" tires and stock style suspension.:noway:

Why I don't know cause it's pretty easy!:sad:

http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o45/70camino/?action=view&current=10.flv

3880 lbs., ALL STEEL, pump gas, stock style suspension, 10" tires, full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, yada, yada, yada and oval port heads!!

Nuff said!:yes:

I know of one.....that if I had my way with it........... would .

And its NOT rocket science either! You guys can smack me on the nutz........I dont care........call me cocky , what ever. But it would have done it a loooong time ago. :boxing:

Read the bottom of post #99 above then read post #49 in this thread

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177245


Yeah I just caught that...my mistake. Thanks.

thank you 8sec71 . looks like you have plenty of power . now to get it to hook . and look at that a "real " 9sec chevelle . and how you did it in your sig that is what i call helpfull . thanks for your reply .

My motor is far from pump gas
Is it me or did the original poster state more than once...

PUMP GAS

:p:boring:

no surprise you're impressed by a car that will NEVER hook in it's current configuration!!:noway:

thank you 8sec71 . looks like you have plenty of power . now to get it to hook . and look at that a "real " 9sec chevelle . and how you did it in your sig that is what i call helpfull . thanks for your reply .

Not a problem. :thumbsup:

Is it me or did the original poster state more than once...

PUMP GAS

:p:boring:

Yes, I'm well aware of that fact..thank you. ;)

However, I'm just trying to show that if you have the hp, you can and will go 9's in a stock suspension, heavy arse Chevelle.

Even though mine doesn't run on pump gas now, it likely will in the future and it will still run in the 9's.

But for now, I want 8's! Race gas or not!:D

MY pump gas 467 combo will run high 9's all day long/everyday in a Chevelle that's 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged!:yes:

STILL WAITING...

Ed, I nobody's seen a 9 second time slip you've posted anywhere.

Not a bracket racer, just a wannabe who calls BULL$HIT when he sees it.

Hell.....if you throw enough power at it, a school bus will run in the nines. I think this whole thing is about "practicle" and "reliable" and "dependable".

Not 600 plus cubes , turbos , blowers and NOS.

1094hp on tap
3660 lbs. of nose heavy Chevelle
stock style suspension
10" tires
running a tire spinning 9.65 w/ 1.544 60'

PRICELESS!!:yes::sad:

still inpressing your self i see . does your car run 9s ?

Originally Posted by FOOTBRAKER http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1401824#post1401824)
Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:

STILL waiting!


http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o...current=10.flv

"OH WOW!":yes:

3880 lbs., ALL STEEL, pump gas, stock style suspension, 10" tires, full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, yada, yada, yada and oval port heads!!

Nuff said!:yes:

Certainly clear to me and many that have emailed and PM me who's car has meet the burden of PROOF and who is talking out their azz!:yes:

More videos for those that can't get enough:D

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/047ed893-d6f4-4f23-8b11-98f00100a711.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/dd96482e-fc32-43d1-b921-98f0010529a4.htm

what did you have to do to get the 10.5 on it Harold. that is some nasty times. wow" The standard 10.5" x 28" M/T E.T. Drag tire fits the '70 Chevelle very easily. I think it is currently on 12" wheels but still fit with plenty of room. Ed, your right about it not being either a bracket car or pump gas friendly but taking out 2.5 points of compression should fix the pump gas part. Depends on the tree about the bracket part.

Hell.....if you throw enough power at it, a school bus will run in the nines. I think this whole thing is about "practicle" and "reliable" and "dependable".

Not 600 plus cubes , turbos , blowers and NOS.

All of this entertaining arguing aside, I am more interested in your 355 combo that you got into the 9's. I will never build anything that radical (unless I hit the lottery) but I am interested in your total combo that you used to achieve this.

Thanks,
Rich

......Ed I have a question for you. I don't know you and was wondering with all the knowledge you have & all the people all over the world asking for your advice...why is it that you are not building your own engine?:confused:

All of this entertaining arguing aside, I am more interested in your 355 combo that you got into the 9's. I will never build anything that radical (unless I hit the lottery) but I am interested in your total combo that you used to achieve this.

Old but a classic...
http://www.chevelles.com/video/nova.wmv

......Ed I have a question for you. I don't know you and was wondering with all the knowledge you have & all the people all over the world asking for your advice...why is it that you are not building your own engine?:confused:
a sarcastic question for sure but I'll answer it!

Cause my time is worth more than the $1,200 it costs to assemble it and because I can afford it!!:yes:

Next question!

a sarcastic question for sure but I'll answer it!

Cause my time is worth more than the $1,200 it costs to assemble it and because I can afford it!!:yes:

Next question!


Effective immediately...............ALL complete race engines WILL cost $1000.00 to assemble! All my favorite customers.....that is! LOL! :D

Ed....the question was not meantIt was just that I have heard different to be saracastic & if it offended you I'm sorry...

All of this entertaining arguing aside, I am more interested in your 355 combo that you got into the 9's. I will never build anything that radical (unless I hit the lottery) but I am interested in your total combo that you used to achieve this.

Thanks,
Rich

PM me if you'd like

Mikey you need to get your facts straight!

The points and results haven't been updated in weeks!

I runnered up this past Saturday and that was my 4th final so far this season!

Further, I've already qualified for the bracket finals, finishing 4th in the 1st half of the points season, have won over $2,000 to date and I'm currently leading the points aka #1!!:yes::hurray:

Thanks for your interest!:p

BTW, my son is also leading the points in Jr.A!:hurray:

GO BACK TO DRAG RACE RESULTS.COM WHERE YOU BELONG. NOBODY GIVES A RATS ASS ABOUT YOU AND YOUR MID 10 SECOND CAR EXCEPT YOU!

I regret to inform you, that you're sadly mistaken!:yes:

There is at least 35 members that GIVE A RATS ASS about me and my low 10 second:hurray: car judging by the # of PM's and emails I have recieved over the past 2 days that haven't previously contacted me in addition to those members that have been asking my advice for YEARS and whom I communicate with regularly!:yes::p

One thing is for certain, NO ONE gives a rats ass about YOUR high 11 second car, your love of a camshaft, your converter debacle and NO ONE is asking YOU for advice!!:noway:

Highly entertaining....

1094hp on tap
3660 lbs. of nose heavy Chevelle
stock style suspension
10" tires
running a tire spinning 9.65 w/ 1.544 60'

PRICELESS!!:yes::sad:

You can poke fun all you want, I don't care. I think your combo is very impressive, and I won't belittle it. If I get into the 8's N/A on race gas, I think that is just as impressive as a pump gas car going 9's. And w/ a 555 like fowl has, I don't think it will be a problem.

Originally Posted by FOOTBRAKER http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1401824#post1401824)
Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:

STILL waiting!


http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o...current=10.flv

"OH WOW!":yes:

3880 lbs., ALL STEEL, pump gas, stock style suspension, 10" tires, full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, yada, yada, yada and oval port heads!!

Nuff said!:yes:

Certainly clear to me and many that have emailed and PM me who's car has meet the burden of PROOF and who is talking out their azz!:yes:

More videos for those that can't get enough:D

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/047ed893-d6f4-4f23-8b11-98f00100a711.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/dd96482e-fc32-43d1-b921-98f0010529a4.htm


""Stock Type" is the key word here. could this be the wishbone suspension from AW suspension...You know... The guy up in Canada that builds NHRA stock eliminator stuff meant for drag racing ONLY and no where near streetable... AW will tell you this himself. The question is can this suspension make a turn on the street with all 4 wheels on the ground? I think not, and BTW how much does this kit cost? could it be 1200 bucks back in 2000 and who knows how much now. Lets have all the cards on the table. If we are talking street cars cool but I think there is much more under the table. Time to come clean and fess up.

BR

Dustin, I suggest you change your user name to 9sec71 cause this car will NEVER see an 8 second pass n/a in it's current configuartion with it's current components/suspension!!:noway:

Donnie, while you were away I would have hoped you got a little smarter!;)

Don't make the same foolish comments others have that wish they had it do in fustration when they realize they can't get it!

All they and you know is what I have stated about it on line!!

They, you have never seen it and never will!:noway:

I can assure you as well Kjett would/has that it IS as streetable as ANY of the aftermarket suspensions including the TRZ you plan to run!!

The difference between it, TRZ's and everyone's elses is that they are ALL a distant 2nd on the track and can't begin to compare to the best bolt-on suspension bar NONE!!:yes:

Funny that you refer to this suspension as one off!:sad:

At last count there were over 48 cars in the country using this ONE off suspension!:p

I'm also interested in information and/or pictures of Ed's suspension setup.

If what Don says is true, then it belongs on the street about as much as something with a 14:1 race engine does.

Donnie, while you were away I would have hoped you got a little smarter!;)

Don't make the same mistake others have that know NOTHING about the suspension I run, never have seen it and never will!!:noway:

All they and you know is what I have stated about it on line!!

I can assure you as well Kjett would/has that it IS as streetable as ANY of the aftermarket suspensions including the TRZ you plan to run!!

The difference between it, TRZ's and everyone's elses is that they are ALL a distant 2nd on the track!!:yes:



Oh trust me. I am way smarter than your average bear. This has nothing to do with Kjett so don't even try it. I have spoken to AW personaly, and the statements I have made are right on track. You know this as well as I do. with that being said I'l bow out of this thread. I can see that if you don't change anything nothing will change, and it's obviouslly exactly the same thing only in a later year. Just remeber...You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. If you are lying about this. What else about your combo is bogus???? RF WTFO

I'l bow out of this thread.
Good idea!

See you did get a little smarter!:yes:

Just my 2 cents which isn't worth much, and with no offense directed towards anyone, but I thought the purpose of this site was for gear heads like us who dig Chevelles was to help each other reach the goals that some of us have reached. Not to beat their chests about what we/they have/are doing. I was going 10.70s back in 1990 in a 68 with a nothing mill off the brake pedal that Finished number 3 in division 3. 3 years in a row that I drove on a daily basis.....SO WHAT!!! BIG DEAL

My old 69 went 9.68 @142mph on street tires and through the exhaust. Full interior weighing 4000lbs. It was done with a stock bottom end LS7 crate motor. A 250 shot and with square port brodix BB2 heads, a comp cams 680 roller, a brodix HVH intake and a pro systems dominator, but it had a over the counter rear suspension not a one off unit that couldn't be driven on the street. As a matter of fact I drove this car to work and back as well as to the strip, and it spent quite a bit of time on the street. The only time this car was on a trailer was when I towed it to bowling green KY to sell it. Big Deal! I would be happy to share everything that was done to either of those cars with everyone here. If anyone would like me to.

Just as I will share what is going to be done to the 64 I am in the process of building now that will sport a set of iron 781 heads and will run 9s N/A.There should be no secrets here. that is unless you are afraid of being beat with your own combo. Run what you have and make the best of it. We all don't have unlimited funds to do what we would like to do. I think we should help those guys. not waste everyone's time with the I can and have done this and I will do that.

With that being said. I think we should talk less about what we can or will do and share with everyone the knowledge that us older faster guys have learned over the years. If you have the cash then build it. If not then lets help those guys go as fast as they can afford to go. The debate will obviously go on but the bottom line is everyone can't spend thousands of dollars and they don't have years to progress from the 11s to the 9s. Leave the trash talk at the door, and come on in. We are all here to learn, and I don't care how old you are or how long you have been doing this or how fast you are or have been. We all can learn something from someone if you willing and able to listen and learn.

The only heros on this site are the ones who have served and protected this country over the years past. The rest are all busy protecting this fine country as well as saving lives across the country while we all sit here pecking away at the keyboard about how bad our car is. I think we should all divulge everything. Engine combo, suspension...everything that you have done to make your rig as fast as it is. If you can't do that. Then you are wasting everyone's time.

BR out.

Please post some info on the rear suspension setup. :yes: ...it seems the rest of your setup has been covered numerous times, but the rear suspension (other than who made it) hasn't been thoroughly discussed on this forum.

I've seen Alf's suspension in person and it looks nothing like the stock configuration but it does "bolt" in. There's an adapter bracket that bolts on the housing ears. A single Heim joint attaches to this bracket in the area between the housing ears. The other end of the wishbone has two Heims as far as I can remember, and I can't remember how they attach to the crossmember, but the stock brackets are utilized somehow.

I can't really explain how the lowers attach but again the stock attachment points are utilized creatively so that the suspension will be allowed in Stock Eliminator cars. It is an interesting design and I wish I'd taken my camera that night. If I spot that car again at an event, I'll be taking a few pics to study the suspension, though I doubt I'll ever utilize that type of suspension.

I've seen Alf's suspension in person as far as I can remember, I can't remember, I can't really explain
It's clear you don't KNOW what you saw, what you were looking at and can't explain it!:noway:

There will be NO in depth discussion of this suspension nor will photos be posted!

IF you want to know more about it find Alf's # call him and ask him!

There will be NO in depth discussion of this suspension nor will photos be posted!You've got to be kidding me.

Is it because you don't want to be told it does or doesn't belong on the street, or because you simply don't understand how it works? :p

You've got to be kidding me.

Is it because you don't want to be told it does or doesn't belong on the street, or because you simply don't understand how it works? :p

We all should know the answer to this question. Right Edward????

Seems to me you're not sure what you saw!:noway:

No SH!T Ed. I saw it once, for a few minutes, with very little light. I never said I was an expert on its construction and geometry. I said I saw it in person, and I did. It was under a '70 Chevelle that runs in Stock Eliminator. I can't recall the specific catagory but it was a "396" backed by an automatic.

I saw the guy make a few wheels-up launches on the 1/8th track at Irwindale, followed him to the pits, asked if I could look under his car and then helped him drain his fuel system and load the car onto the trailer. I asked him if it was an Alf set up and he said, "yes, how do you know about Alf." Then I told him about you and your car.

Either way, "stock-type" is a stretch when describing the suspension that I saw. Sure it uses the stock attachment points in some form or another, but the bars themselves don't attach like the stock arms do. I would say that it is only a "stock-type" suspension in the sense that it is allowed in Stock Eliminator racing.

But it definately is not any kind of C4L design.

No SH!T Ed. I saw it once, for a few minutes, with very little light. I never said I was an expert on its construction and geometry. I said I saw it in person, and I did. It was under a '70 Chevelle that runs in Stock Eliminator. I can't recall the specific catagory but it was a "396" backed by an automatic.

I saw the guy make a few wheels-up launches on the 1/8th track at Irwindale, followed him to the pits, asked if I could look under his car and then helped him drain his fuel system and load the car onto the trailer. I asked him if it was an Alf set up and he said, "yes, how do you know about Alf." Then I told him about you and your car.

Either way, "stock-type" is a stretch when describing the suspension that I saw. Sure it uses the stock attachment points in some form or another, but the bars themselves don't attach like the stock arms do. I would say that it is only a "stock-type" suspension in the sense that it is allowed in Stock Eliminator racing.

But it definately is not any kind of C4L design.

Like I said...some of the people some of the time, but not all of the peolple all of the time. There are some un blind lemmings here after all. come on Edward. Come clean or....well you know we are all not as dumb as one might think. nuff said BR out of this one.

Actually, if it's anything like what Enrique describes, it's not a bad street setup, depending on the orientation and construction of the heim in the center... that style would actually allow the axle to articulate even better than a stock C4L. Unfortunately, it puts all side-loading on the center Heim, which they are not designed for.

What I want to know is some things like IC height, SVSA length, A/S, and of course if the axle can articulate.

I've heard that a 525" engine from BES, prepped to run competitive times, costs "33K" dollars and all the high flowing, heavily ported heads will most likely run you over "10 Grand". If one is going to build a fast bracket car you can just start with a "565", "572" or (my personal favorite), the "598" and low nines should come easily.

33K is way off the mark. I would suggest you check out Tony's site. That mill will cost about 13 to 16K which I would expect would be way less than an un named person has in his mill. let alone the rest of the car and the time spent resreaching it. Check it out here. http://www.besracing.com/engine_582.html and that's for the 582 mill. listen and learn don't be bamboozled by wheelstands and talk.

Ed, what makes your Alf Wiebe suspension work better than my Wolfe Racecraft parts for example? Are the pickup points relocated? Is SVSA shortened?

A quick google search for info on Alf Wiebe suspension found only multiple topics on multiple forums where you make a bunch of bold claims without providing ANY TECH to back it up. You included only pictures of your car pulling the wheels, which proves nothing except the fact your front suspension is less than optimal.

Got a big spoon don't Derek!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-024.gif

I've been in the mood for a good suspension design, theory, and application debate, and the suspension forum has been kind of slow lately. :D

I figure someone who knows everything could probably teach me something, but I'm not counting on it. ;)

Derek, Ken Jett put up some pics that kind of show the suspension a while back. It was in one of his update posts of the rolling chassis. Maybe Kenny could E-mail you some pics.

When I talked to the Gentleman with the '70 he said that he was told the Heims would get beat up if the car was driven over rough surface imperfections.

thank every one that replied . and that goes for you to ed . even tho you added nothing . these are just cars and bottom line that is all they are. but i bet ed is setting in his right now making engine noise cheering for himself. go ed go.

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I read all 10 pages of this post. It started pretty cool with fowl wanting to run nines on pump gas and looking for some help/advice and it's just degenerated into Ed talking about his car and people poking him with a stick to see if he'll blow up. Will this post ever get back on track? I hope so. Even though I don't ever plan on running in the nines, I think it's awesome to see other people are and even more are still trying to get there. Fowl, hopefully someone can step up and give a push in the right direction cause nines on pump gas in a street driven chevelle would be kick a$$. I do however have to agree with Ed and say that making the power is the easy part, getting it to stick is the tricky part. that said were there's a will, there's a way. good luck fowl and keep us posted.:thumbsup:

STILL waiting!


http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o45/70camino/?action=view&current=10.flv

3880 lbs., ALL STEEL, pump gas, stock style suspension, 10" tires, full factory interior, power steering, power brakes, tilt wheel, yada, yada, yada and oval port heads!!

Nuff said!:yes: Ed, My son's car was set up to run the nitrous class here locally and so hense the high gear. The car has always been footbraked but it is lighter and not as streetworthy as yours (3560-3600 lbs.). It has on occasion been driven on the street with the aid of race gas. My son put in a Ford bolt in rear end in the mid nineties but it uses all the stock mounting points as built by the factory with Hotchkis replacement arms, solid on the bottom and adjustable uppers. A Dick Miller anti-roll bar keeps things level at launch. It has all the required roll cage and is certified down to 7.50 which it will never reach. Dustin Morgan and i both want to go a high eight this coming year but who knows. My son and i were stuck in the 10.0s for quite a while before a good weather day gave us a 9.98 back when we had a 481" in it. The 540" motor was about three tenths quicker and five MPH faster than the 481" and the 598" is about 5-6 tenths quicker & 9 MPH faster than the 540. The law of diminishing returns comes into play as you get faster and faster and each barrier becomes harder to reach. As you go on down into the nines your car will stand up worse. The harder you hit ours, the faster it goes up. Ski_dwn_it's car stands up a little higher than i would be comfortable with and if he finds more power it's going to get way high. I wish you the best of luck on your upcoming engine swap and will be waiting to see the results. Which oval port heads are you going to use? We have a local Camaro racer that ran a 8.86 @ 153 on pump gas, but that car is about 350 lbs. lighter than ours and has a 632. It even has oval port heads (Brodix 1803's).

33K is way off the mark. I would suggest you check out Tony's site. That mill will cost about 13 to 16K which I would expect would be way less than an un named person has in his mill. let alone the rest of the car and the time spent resreaching it. Check it out here. http://www.besracing.com/engine_582.html and that's for the 582 mill. listen and learn don't be bamboozled by wheelstands and talk. I'm not talking about the run of the mill 1000 H.P., 582", but the purpose built 522" that is used to run 8.60s and produces 1140 H.P., as in NMCA Pro stock. Those heads have a ton of work in them when you get to that level and don't come on any crate motor that i know of. You certainly won't get them on a 15K crate motor. I've heard several knowledgeable people say that a competitive set of NMRA P.S. heads can cost over 10K by themselves. That is a real good buy on that crate motor although some of the parts would have to be upgraded and the price would definately increase as a result. A belt drive and oversized cam are the most notable changes i'd make. It would probably run nines easily, as is.

I regret to inform you, that you're sadly mistaken!:yes:

There is at least 35 members that GIVE A RATS ASS about me and my low 10 second:hurray: car judging by the # of PM's and emails I have recieved over the past 2 days that haven't previously contacted me in addition to those members that have been asking my advice for YEARS and whom I communicate with regularly!:yes::p

One thing is for certain, NO ONE gives a rats ass about YOUR high 11 second car, your love of a camshaft, your converter debacle and NO ONE is asking YOU for advice!!:noway:

Converter debacle? funny, no debacle here. tried a few things and got one that works just fine for MY needs i.e. stret strip with emphasis on the street.
Sorta like you tried 2" headers and found out they worked better....

To me a debacle would be more along the lines of the sesonal engine failures you experience. But hey, what do I know? haha.

p.s. I am not in this hobby to come across as a tech line rep like you. The obvious reason you are here is that your PM box at DRR is probably quiet these days and you need some ego stroking. Enjoy. p.s. 11.30's is LOW 11's but you know that......even in Jersey math.

p.p.s. why ARE you here anyway? You constantly belittle the board on every other site as nothing but a place for all the "career test n tuners & wannabe heads up racers". What changed to make you come back?

Footbraker, you have no idea how absolutely comical your desperate need for attention/recognition sounds! I get a hoot reading it :)


BTW, notice how far this place has come over the years.... from a handful of 10 second cars, to loads of them, and folks running much deeper. And a knowledge base that tops, bar none. ( I think i its because we are NOT a racing site, and folks are a bit less secretive/competitive here...??? not to mention civil..) Five years ago your accomplishments were, well, rare. Now, while still quite noteworthy, they're nothing truly spectacular or out of the norm , at least amongst the true die hard racers here in Performance. And many of the quickest, we dont see post very often. ( couple of 67 around here that do 9's for breakfast) You're just one of many , not just one. Might want to get used to that if you decide to stick around, which I hope you do. TC is much bigger and much more experienced ( thanks to many very knowledgable souls) then when you were here before.

I'm not trying to take anything way from your accomplishments, just that, man, here there's a platoon of folks doing what you do, ok two squads worth. And there's the rest of us that dont have it in us, and enjoy reading about EVERYONE's successes. There are always "job openings" amongst the corps of racers here, for sure, but....

You wanna be THE man, you better ask Mr. Tiley for his job! ;)

Peace. Out.

""Stock Type" is the key word here. could this be the wishbone suspension from AW suspension...You know... The guy up in Canada that builds NHRA stock eliminator stuff meant for drag racing ONLY and no where near streetable... AW will tell you this himself. The question is can this suspension make a turn on the street with all 4 wheels on the ground? I think not, and BTW how much does this kit cost? could it be 1200 bucks back in 2000 and who knows how much now. Lets have all the cards on the table. If we are talking street cars cool but I think there is much more under the table. Time to come clean and fess up.

BR

Not for nothing, but i just built a "similar" suspension, and drove it all around on the street, it rides nicer then my camaros suspension does.

Brian, how familair are you with the patent process!? ;)

Might I advise some reading up on it!

To me a debacle would be more along the lines of the sesonal engine failures you experience.

DEBACLE: Claiming you have a deadly consistent bracket car that hooks on any track due to mysterious, trick rear suspension you claim you helped refine and market, then Island Dragway posts a run sheet showing your wheel-spinning 10.89 on a 10.46 dial-in.

Not for nothing, but i just built a "similar" suspension, and drove it all around on the street, it rides nicer then my camaros suspension does.

Brian, that is great! Get some track time on it and post the results!

Edit: So Alfs suspension is patented? Interesting......

Brian, how familair are you with the patent process!? ;)

Might I advise some reading up on it!


He said simular...I wonder if the number of "point of attachments" are included in the patent?

As long as it is different and that difference has an impact ( in this case an enginnering differnce, i.e, CG or moment arm or whatever terms y'all use, )
then you can patent it.

I'm working on one now, not for me, and its not a patent but a copyright ( wasnt unique enough to patent - it a music instruction aide).

and point of fact is, if Alf hadnt bothered, than Holcombe Fabrication can do it.

The difficult part of the process is the initial search to see if what you have is indeed patentable. I didnt have to do that. But if I was a young man looking to make this my career, there is NO DOUBT IN MY MILTARY MIND I WOULD!

OK , now for real , back to biz advice for pay....

Peace. Out.

And a knowledge base that tops, bar none.

Believe me when I say.......there are many that are a lot more "hard core" than TC.

All you guys have thin skin................you let this stuff bother you too much.........like wrestling with pigs in the mud...........remember , they ENJOY getting dirty.

BTW............Ed , I'm not calling you a pig.

If you are confident in yourselves , and your achievements..........as you get older , you realize........it really DOESN'T matter what anyone thinks

Joe, great advice, one of my axoims of life, and one I share with my students as well.. dont give a rats ass what folks think as long as I know I'm doing the right thing. Well, caveat, the folks that PAY me, I DO CARE what they think of me! I think its moret han maturity, but also comes form confidence and mastery.

Joe, one of my axoims of life, and one I share with my students as well.. dont give a rats ass what folks think as long as I know I'm doing the right thing. Well, caveat, the folks that PAY me, I DO CARE what they think of me!


I removed that........true...........just seemed a little "tacky" :D

Kripes, we're way off the topic of 9 second cars, but that was truly a nugget of wisdom you gave there , you hard shiftin' mutha you!

Too bad I done quoted ya!

Off to the "races"...... OUT.

Not for nothing, but i just built a "similar" suspension, and drove it all around on the street, it rides nicer then my camaros suspension does. Brian, Almost everything rides better than a Camaro.

Brian, how familair are you with the patent process!? ;)

Might I advise some reading up on it!

there is no patent on it, and its not the same, just similar.

I'm not going to produce them unless something is worked out with alf, just the one, its his idea, not mine. I dont need any bad karma.

Is it me, or does this board work very similar to that phone game that is played in kintergarder classes, by the time you work all the way around the classroom the guy has a patent, and someone else built a gaggle of them ;)

What did you change, and what are you trying to improve? You must be testing new ideas on one of those stockers.

I would like to ad that . I got to go to the pump gas drags in Mem. and all of the cars there were pumpgas cars and one of them was a white chevelle with a stick in it that almost clicked off a high 8 . there was a tan chevelle there , a 65 i think that also ran a mid 9 that had plenty more in it . my point is neather of those guys post on here as im sure many dont ,point is those cars are out there just cause they dont post on team chevelle or race in NJ with ed does not mean they dont exist. If you look at this thread you will see who is poking who . I have a 69 chevelle that I like and have had for years and i want it fast . there are plenty of camaros around here that can run 9s that i see on the street every now and then . 3 of them in fact and that is just camaros . and yes they have put it on me in the past . I like chevelles that is why i post on here , I will always have one , a chevelle that is . that is what this site is about . helping other guys with chevelles ,and a camaro a long the way . I have worked all the over time I can to save mony to put in my chevelle that includes change that i take out of my pockets i put in a coffie can . I just want to buy the right parts . not stuff i have to change . the information that im looking for will help not just me but everyone on this board . how many times have you been to the strip and lined up beside a nother chevelle not to mention one that post on team chevelle. sorry for the long post but . kinda got off track here. I am not ashamed that i dont know every thing and ask for help .
what type of rear end and what gear?
what size engine and what compression and heads and cam?
what trans tb 350 or tb 400 with a trans brake or without.?
what wheels what backspacing on the rear ?
what suspension ? springs front and rear ,shocks front and rear ?
my car has the full inter and power stearing so its heavy
what slicks to run ?
these are the things i am after. I will be posting the results here on team chevelle. as i get the car assembled .

I would like to ad that . I got to go to the pump gas drags in Mem. and all of the cars there were pumpgas cars and one of them was a white chevelle with a stick in it that almost clicked off a high 8

If its the same car, he won a street class award a few years ago, I watched the video for months. Nitrous car, it'd go "
BANG!" every time he SHIFTED, yes STICK SHIFTED a gear. :thumbsup:

My kind of porn!

Awesome ride, wish the owner stepped in PERF once in a while.

Brian, truth, bad karma comes back to bite, infallibly.

fowl69, sorry for getting this thing off track on ya....but its all good...

Originally Posted by FOOTBRAKER http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1401824#post1401824)
Again, where are all the examples with details and photos of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:

STILL waiting!

:sad:

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1971_chevrolet_chevelle_street_heat/

The Lunati Chevelle was doing this years ago...with a 13.7:1 540-inch BB making 840 HP.

Obviously, it's easier to make big power today than it was then, but it's still no walk in the park. The tough part comes with the pump gas stipulation, of course.

Some of the EMC technology would help. I have little doubt some of the research done by BES and Autoshop would help this effort.

Putting that power down...that's another trick. It'd sure help if the car was on slicks and had some adjustability. Trying to do it with bolt-ons would be challenging, that's for sure...but I bet some of the latest goodies out there would be capable. I've seen cars with Dick Miller's suspension stuff run 9s, but who knows how much power they needed to do so.

This is one of those challenges that doesn't sound too tough until you actually try to do it.

Personally, if I'm committed to pump gas for street use and I still want to run low times at the track, I'll get a bottle. A well-built engine can be mellow enough for daily driving, yet strong enough to handle juice on the strip. But to have a pump-gas ride be capable of 9-second passes at will in street trim...there's nothing 'easy' or 'simple' about that. Some very trick stuff will be required somewhere, and probably in several places all over the car.

~Scotch~

You need about 20-25K min to build a high 9secpump gas car. Most spend that on motor and can't do it.

i spent 35k building mine, how are you going to build a high 9 second pump gas car on 25k?

North of $30K easily to build a pump gas n/a 3700 lb. street/strip Chevelle that will run IN THE 9's and looks as good as it runs, not a 9.9x second pass when the sun/moon and stars are in perfect alignment and dead hook after dozens of failed attempts!

North of $30K easily to build a pump gas n/a 3700 lb. street/strip Chevelle that will run IN THE 9's, not a 9.9x second pass when the sun/moon and stars are in perfect alignment and looks as good as it runs!

Have you found one yet Ed?:D

Read the last 3 sentences of that acticle....that say it all..

Spend money were it needs to be spent, use a power adder. He has a motor and a car. You didn't have to spend that money, you chose to spend that kind of money.

Its fact that you can go faster for less with a power adder, and have less maintenance, cam lift, ect. Whats the purpose of pump fuel if you can't drive the car anyway. IMO drive it, add boost or NOS when you need it.

He never said N/A?

I built mine for under 25K it's a pumpgas 9 second car that is completely streetable. Just put a blower on it and call it a day for the motor. Suspension I have Bmr adjustable uppers and tubular lowers. 400 turbo trans with trans break. 12 bolt with mosier 33 spline axles and a 4.30 gear with a 31x10.5 slick. full cage only thing is the fiberglass hood.

Don't listen to ed he is on alot of boards running his mouth about his car and hasn't proved anything to anyone except his is better than everyone elses car and he want's $1300 for the rear control arms when I got a set of BMRs for $400 and am pulling 1.4 60's. My friends stock suspension malibu has Bmrs and runs 8:80s. so they do work well. again it's only advice it's all in how you take it and use it. And of coarse how deep your pockets are.

Besides nothing cooler than a blower coming threw the hood.

MY pump gas 467 combo will run high 9's all day long/everyday in a Chevelle that's 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged!:yes:

STILL WAITING ON THAT TIMESLIP, ED.

You're good at telling everyone else how to do it but not very good at running 9's yourself, at least not in your 10 second Chevelle.

NOWHERE in this thread did I state my ride has posted a 9 second time slip!:noway:

I have provided PROOF of a 10.07 pass with my 3880 lb. pump gas, n/a Chevelle!

I have also stated elsewhere on this forum that a 9 second time slip before the season is over and before I retire this engine is as certain as the sun will rise tomorrow!

Do tell us and show us all about YOUR 3700+lb. pump gas n/a BB Chevelle using a stock type suspension and 10" tires!!:sad::p


Originally Posted by blown68bbc http://www.chevelles.com/forums/olp/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1403326#post1403326)
Don't listen to ed he is on alot of boards running his mouth about his car and hasn't proved anything to anyone except his is better than everyone elses car and he want's $1300 for the rear control arms when I got a set of BMRs for $400 and am pulling 1.4 60's.

Are we susposed to me impressed with your 1.40's in 60 '?:noway::sad:

ANOTHER that's mistaken...my car has PROVEN much to many!:yes:

Do post for us your launch photos and videos!:yes:

NOS, blowers....how about turbos?:boring:

STILL NO...examples with details, photos and PROOF of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve?:sad:



THE PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE

NOWHERE in this thread did I state my ride has posted a 9 second time slip!:noway:

THE PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE

What you stated in post # 6 of this thread is:

"MY pump gas 467 combo will run high 9's all day long/everyday in a Chevelle that's 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged!:yes:"

And what I said was that I'm not even a bracket racer, just a guy that calls BULL$HIT when I see it. I see it and I've called it.

If you'd had a run anywhere in the 9's, your arrogant a$$ would have bought a friggin' neon billboard to show off to the world what you had done, PLUS you'd have posted the timeslip on any website that would allow it.

Sooooooooooooo what part about 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged don't you understand?:sad:

Oh and you can be certain when I have the 9 second time slip it will be posted and all we'll here is the deafening sound of silence from those like you that think they know, yet have done NOTHING and have NOTHING worth talking about!:yes:

If you'd had a run anywhere in the 9's, your arrogant a$$ would have bought a friggin' neon billboard to show off to the world what you had done, PLUS you'd have posted the timeslip on any website that would allow it.

Which does leave too many, because he's been banned from most:D

Sooooooooooooo what part about 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged don't you understand?:sad:

Oh and you can be certain when I have the 9 second time slip it will be posted and all we'll here is the deafening sound of silence from those like you that think they know, yet have done NOTHING and have NOTHING worth talking about!:yes:

Ed
who ever said you have something worth talkin about???
Oh yea - there is that big ego of yours. Isnt that whats usually talked about.

A wishbone upper link is nothing new, all Chevy passenger cars in 1958 had them.

The design does work well if the links are designed for side-loading, but heims are NOT designed for that type of loading... The right way to do it for street use would be to design a double-shear mount with the bolt going through vertically, and something like a big uniball style heim heavily gusseted to the wishbone. A threaded heim just will not cut it.

There's nothing wrong with heims on the street (I use them) as long as they are in a way that there are only push/pull loads on them.

I just want to know if this setup was done "right" or not.

Fowl69,

Do you know exactly what your car weighs with an aluminum headed bbc under the hood? Knowing the exact race weight ahead of time will make determining how much power is required easier and more accurate.

Also, when you say 9's on pump gas, does that mean an occassional 9.9x pass in optimal conditions spring and fall, or do you want 9 second runs in any weather/air conditions you may be faced with? Basically are you looking for 9.90's, 9.60's, 9.40's, 9.0's or what?

While on paper, it looks pretty simple to get a 3600-3700 lb Chevelle solidly into the 9 second range (say 9.80's consistently) on pump gas. But on paper and in reality often times don't match up. If it was as easy as some think, you would see alot more of these types of combinations out there. You see a few, but not as many as you would think if it was easy to accomplish.

I will say that it can and has been done. It's gonna take some solid planning and alot of testing to dial in the combination. Building the power required is the easy part, especially if you have a 555 on hand. Getting the car to #1 hook well and run the number, yet be docile enough for regular street driving and live under those conditions is where the challenge comes in.

I assume your looking to make it a dual pupose street/strip car wih the pump gas requirement?

Also remember that it's not just having the power to run the number, but also the rest of the required parts to have a well matched combination and talking the time required to dial it in. Tuning the car and making required changes isn't gonna happen in two or three times to the track. It could take a whole season, maybe two depending on how much effort your willing to put into dialing in the combination.

Don't let anyone discourage you as what you want to do can be done, just know it won't be a piece of cake to accomplish either.

good luck
Todd

Oh yea, what area do you live/race in? What kind of track elevation as well as what is a typical density altitude range the track see's over the course of the season? This will play a huge factor in meeting your performance goals, or not.

Ed, I'm not bragging about anything other than calling BULL$HIT when I see it.
You said it would run 'em all day, every day.

The PROOF IS IN THE PERFORMANCE!!!

Where's that 9 second timeslip? There should be several for you to choose from since it'll run 9's all day, every day. My guess it's in your logbook right along the one with the 1.2xx 60 footer :D

:sad:

I already posted. 9.75@144.6 first time to the track. 325/50/15 et street radials, exhaust out behind the tires, 3.25 gears, stock type suspension,full street trim and all new interior with heavy seats, and I'll find out for sure tomorrow at the track but I'm betting north of 3800 lbs with me in it. Odds are it will be alot faster by monday too.

And forgive my ignornace Jessie, but isnt a turbo combo slightly easier to get there ( 9's) since the "hit" at launch isnt as severe, or is 1100 HP still 1100HP! :cool:

# 1

Todd Bishop from Chicopee, has a '70 Chevelle SS and run's high nines on the bottle!
Year: 1970
Engine: 468
Transmission: Powerglide
Combination:


454 .060 over with trw .125 dome pistons
stock GM closed chamber square port heads no porting
2.19 titamiun intake valves 1.88 ex. stainless
.684 lift at the valve solid cam
crane roller rockers, and stud gurtles
edelbrock victor 1050 holley dominator
dyno test: 542hp@6400 553flb@5100
powerglide 1.88 first gear
12 bolt 5.38 spool with strange axels and support cover
300hp NOS fogger system
run's without bottle 1/4 10.72@122mph 1/8 6.97@101mph with the bottle 1/4 9.70@141mph 1/8 6.14@119mph the cars # with driver 3850lb. Wet



#2
George C. from Mokena, Illinois has a '75 ElCamino that runs 9.70's on the bottle!
Year: 1975
Engine: 482
Transmission: TH 400
Combination:


ET= 11.50 at 123 no NOS 9.70 at 140 with NOS

2 bolt 454 bored .125 over 990 GM steel heads (Open Chamber Rec. Port) 3/8 dimple rods steel GM 454 crank TRW Max Dome pistons Weiand Intake for Dominator 1050 Holley MSD Ignition Ultr Dyne Roller Cam 282 293 at .050 .782 lift Trans King 8" Convertor (3800 stall) 4.10 gear 2 NOS Big shots (225hp on both stages) 10" tires thru mufflers @ 4065 lbs! Good Luck!

#3
Ed Jankowsky Has an awesome 1972 SuperSport that runs 9 second et's!
1972 SS
Engine: 468
Transmission: TH-400
Combination:

750 BARRY GRANT CARB
TWIN B/G 280 FUEL PUMPS
TEAM G INTAKE MERLIN HEADS
11.5 COMP. 7/16 RODS
COMP CAMS 690 LIFT 330 DUR.
N O S 400 HP KIT
9" CONVERTER 4 G.
4.88 MOOSER 12 BOLT
FULL ROLL CAGE
3600 LBS W/DRIVER
9.340 AT 148 E.T. AT E.TOWN N.J

All NOS cars, to be sure, becuase I dont see many 555+ ci rides in he "bbc combo" section of TC, and dont have time to look further.

#4 N/A

Kevin Gass from Ledbetter, Kentucky has a really Hot '66 Chevelle!
1966 Chevelle
Engine: 427
Transmission: PowerGlide
Combination:

66 427 4 bolt block bored .100 over
427 steel crank
childs albert rods
j e pistons
cam motion cam .801 intake .733 ex
dart 320 heads by pat musi
dart intake
950 holley carb by pro gass performance
12 bolt with 4.88 gear
grant fuel system
hooker 2 1/8 headers dynomax mufflers
15x9 monocoque wheels
10.5 m/t street tires.
This chevelle runs in the hot rod magazine real street class it is 3400 lbs and has had 1.41 60 footers on dot tires 6.43 1/8 10.00 1/4 mile times with NO NITROUS the engine dynoed over 700 hp 592 ft lbs torque we hope to get the 1/4 mile times down in the 9.70s

Didnt end up with the CIA NOT becuase I cant find answers quickly! ;)

And I dig the N/A 427 shifting at what, 7500! YEah BABY!

I think......
1) Keep the car as light as you are comfortable with. I really don't see a reason to have it weigh 3900 lbs.
2) Pump gas really needs to be limited to 10:1 CR...to be safe. I know many say 11:1 is fine, but that doesn't allow room for error if you get a crap load of fuel. Remember that some parts of the country get 91 octane, others can get 94.
3) Lower CR means bigger cubes to get where you want to be.
4) 3.90 or 3.73 gears.
5) Converter choice is critical, you likely won't nail it on the first try.
6) Obviously, suspension solutions for Chevelles are available that work.
7) The car will likely take some time to dial in.....if it runs a nine first hit, be very happy!
8) Too much power for the tires at the hit? Use a new MSD digital 7 and limit the launch torque.

So all that said, and I do have a pump gas high nine second car, it won't be easy. It will take time and $$$. Mine is hardly a solid 9 second performer, but it has done it in 80 deg air. 9.91 best. It hooks well on 9" tires. It weighs 3550 with me in it. All I ever run is Shell 92.

I know the comment is coming, it's a feather weight. But you know what, I drive it to the track. I bracket race it, I heads up race it, I take it out on street legal nights and just play with it. I have a blast. I don't have to live up to anyone elses expectations, it's my car, I built it myself from the ground up.

You can do the same.

Here is a video of one of the runs.

http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/RonSS/?action=view&current=truestreetfinal1.flv

(The audio ddidn't seem to come out)

Ron

SOMEBODY PLEASE!............Drive a STAKE thru the heart of this thread!!!!!

Thanx Ron454 and 427L88 for giving us what Fowl69 asked for. Very cool.
A great topic with a sprinkle of pride or gossip (yikes).
Gotta buy one of those digital 7's.

Well, from someone who doesnt have a car that is nearly as fast as others on here....from someone with close to no track time expereince...let me say thanks to everyone as although I didnt learn much from this thread I have been thoroughly entertained to say the least.:thumbsup:

Sooooooooooooo what part about 200 lbs. lighter and shallow staged don't you understand?:sad:

Oh and you can be certain when I have the 9 second time slip it will be posted and all we'll here is the deafening sound of silence from those like you that think they know, yet have done NOTHING and have NOTHING worth talking about!:yes:


Yawn. Who cares.

Man, I am glad I am in this for the enjoyment of the old car hobby and am not a dillusional bracket racing troll with a Napolean complex like you.

Now, back to the question at hand...why are you back here at TC again? I mean, you are always stating that all whom post here are nothing but a bunch of career test n tuners and wannabe heads up bracket racers.

Thanx Ron454 and 427L88 for giving us what Fowl69 asked for. Very cool.

Ditto!

Thanx Ron454 and 427L88 for giving us what Fowl69 asked for. Very cool.
A great topic with a sprinkle of pride or gossip (yikes).
Gotta buy one of those digital 7's.
Let's see what 427L88 really gave us...

#1 high compression, on the bottle and 5.38 gear!

#2 high compression and on the bottle

#3 high compression, on the bottle, 4.88 gear and 3600 lbs. BTW, I know this car, it hasn't raced in years and when it did my ride was ALWAYS quicker, weighing more with less cubes and PUMP GAS!

#4 high compression, 4.88 gear, 3400 lbs. and hasn't run in the 9's!

...NOTHING

Yea thanks!:sad::p

and Ron well at least he's run a 9.91 on pump gas but NOT in a Chevelle and not at 3700+ lbs. but rather a "feather weight" Nova weighing 3550 lbs.!:yes:

My engine in his car is dragging the bumper running a sub 9.70 in the same conditions he ran his best!

STILL WAITING!!

HI ED! When is the NEW engine going in?

and Ron well at least he's run a 9.91 on pump gas but NOT in a Chevelle and not at 3700+ lbs. but rather a "feather weight" Nova weighing 3550 lbs.!:yes:

My engine in his car is dragging the bumper running a sub 9.70 in the same conditions he ran his best!

STILL WAITING!!

Change that comment to your engine and converter combo and I'll agree 100%.
I haven't touched the engine since the car was first assembled and ran 10.30's. The improvements have all been converter (9" ATI that isn't optimal) and rear suspension.
I'm certain there is more in it. But, not certain I'll work to improve it at the present time.
Ron

I am gonna dust off the 69 chevelle and would like to get an idea on what parts i need to get into the 9ns . here is what i have so far . I have the money for a mosier rear , dont know what gear yet . have the money for a rossler trans . dont know which one yet . and here are the engines i have 555ci and a 496ci . would like to do it with the 496 ci on just the engine but i know that is just prob not gonna happen . also have the money saved for a new set of cncd heads . I dont wont to wast money on parts . I am saving now for suspension parts now . the car now has a 12 bolt with a eaton posi and 373 grs stock stuff . the 555ci has a set of afrs 325s on it now . remember pump gas .
that is the post that started this thread .
no were did i say stock type suspension .
no were did i say skinny tires
and no were did i say my car weight was 3700#
what i did say was pumpgas ,chevelle ,and 9s
WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND FOOTBRAKER.

I have a friend who knows Alf Weibe personally and is a dealer for Alf's suspension setup.

Alf isn't making them right now but will be soon.

Anybody that is interested in the suspension system I can put in touch with the dealer when they are being produced again. There is a waiting list right now.

thought i would put this in here . this is a stock truck that weighs 4400# and has the stock front coil springs and the stock rear leafs that came on it . this truck has a bench seat and ac as well as an overdrive trans in it . the reason i show this is because I think a lot can be done if you have the stock suspension set up right . the guy in the black shirt is the suspension guy "madman " and if he tells me it can be done I beleave him . He will be taking a look at my chevelle when the time comes and ill gladly post what is done . any way thought this was cool hummmmmmmm get this truck down to a fly weight 3700 and wonder what it will do.
i think this will work
http://thumbs.vidiac.com/4d79f855-d893-431c-94a7-98e201813014.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4d79f855-d893-431c-94a7-98e201813014.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4d79f855-d893-431c-94a7-98e201813014.htm)

is there any one that has a chevelle that is in the 9 ns with the stock type suspension. my car is a stock chevelle prob 3800# or so.remember pump gas .

no were did i say stock type suspension . were did i say my car weight was 3700#


REALLY!:p

I understand EXACTLY what you've stated!:yes:


STILL NO...

examples with details, photos and PROOF of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve after nearly 4700 views, 14 pages and 201 replies!!!:noway:

oh and you forgot with dice hanging off the rear view mirror . got to put that in there.
and at no time have you shown an example or have you helped at any time during this tread .
now that were looking at what was said which is stupid what about the part were you stated that you were done with this thread and would not post .
YOU GOT NOTHING TO ADD
and just as soon as someone comes on here with a 9s car your gonna say well its got a big engine in it or its light or this or that . Im asking you what have you got to add here anything . that is helpfull anything that is not putting down somones car . what have you got ? ill tell you what you got
nothing . that is why i just had to clean my pm box with tm chevelle members telling me just what you are .

Why isn't Ed willing to discuss this suspension?

I thought he was a "wealth of knowledge" ...seems to me he has no idea how or why it works. :sad:

oh and you forgot with dice hanging off the rear view mirror . got to put that in there.
and at no time have you shown an example or have you helped at any time during this tread .
now that were looking at what was said which is stupid what about the part were you stated that you were done with this thread and would not post .
YOU GOT NOTHING TO ADD
and just as soon as someone comes on here with a 9s car your gonna say well its got a big engine in it or its light or this or that . Im asking you what have you got to add here anything . that is helpfull anything that is not putting down somones car . what have you got ? ill tell you what you got
nothing . that is why i just had to clean my pm box with tm chevelle members telling me just what you are .
While your cleaning out you're pm box mine continues to recieve calls for help/advice as well support for my continued input, kudos the entertainment and comment about you!:yes:

Meanwhile, I HAVE offered you advice..advice you don't want to hear!:noway:

1. don't use a stroker combo
2. it ain't easy to achieve your goals with THIS 3700+ lb. nose heavy car, a stock style suspension and 10" tires!
3. it will cost north of $30,000 to build this pump gas car/combo and one that looks as good as it runs!

NOWHERE in this thread have I stated it can't be done and NOWHERE have I put someone's car down!

Just stating the obvious and more to the point, the FACTS!!:yes:

I could easily run in the 9's NOW by removing 200 lbs.:yes: but I rather do it on muscle, hence the new engine!!:yes:

HI ED! When is the NEW engine going in?
over the winter.

Hey ED, I won't even ask you any difficult questions... just show me a picture or even a napkin sketch diagram of the upper and lower links, and I'll figure it out on my own.

Mid 10's on leaf springs in a 4400lbs truck. That's haulin' the mail for sure!
You don't think that dude is a little bit nose heavy, do you? It has all the aerodynamics of a garage door, too.
That's a pretty doggone impressive ride IMHO.

Here is a picture of a Bunny with a Pancake on it's Head

http://www.boomspeed.com/mc71454/bunny-pancake.jpg

Or let's see,,,,,come to Houston and run the times 67RS502 does in our weather!

Not Joisey cave air!


JIM

9Ns run just fine on pump gas when completely stock. ;)

http://www.iol.ie/%7Emanister/tractortrouble/real_1940_9n.jpg

(sorry, nothing constructive to add, just a poke at the thread title :o )

That is what I was thinking. :D or 9ns= ninens

Here is a picture of a Bunny with a Pancake on it's Head

http://www.boomspeed.com/mc71454/bunny-pancake.jpg

LMAO!!!!!!! :D

Here is a picture of a Bunny with a Pancake on it's Head

Now that cracked me UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I needed a good laugh today!!!!!! Thanks Tom!:D

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/ohdramaimage1.jpg

I just wanted to see a pic of the suspension myself (not sure why its so secret), but Ill guess I will have to wait till I can get a setup formyself, not that my old Junk Iron headed, Oval port 10.25:1 cast piston/crank 396+.060 will need it running 11's :( maybe some day :) Not stirring the pot but Ed does have some good info and knowledge you just have to know how to filter it. All you have to do is not take the banter that seriously and take some constructive criticisim and not get offended and its all good.

Dustin, I suggest you change your user name to 9sec71 cause this car will NEVER see an 8 second pass n/a in it's current configuartion with it's current components/suspension!!:noway:

Thanks for the support Ed! Appreciated!! :thumbsup:

But btw, I am willing to swap out suspension parts and whatever else if I have to. I'm already thinking of ditching the lift bars in favor of regular tubular lowers.

And had I know it was gonna take me this long to see an 8, I would have picked 9sec71 for a screen name lol.

STILL waiting!
So am I.

It seems the only thing you know about suspension is how to install it. There's no other logical reason for it to be "secret" other than you don't know enough about it to discuss how/why it works.

You probably would have a 9-second timeslip by now if you knew how to set up your front end.

So am I.

It seems the only thing you know about suspension is how to install it. There's no other logical reason for it to be "secret" other than you don't know enough about it to discuss how/why it works.

You probably would have a 9-second timeslip by now if you knew how to set up your front end.

Oooo..thems are :boxing: words. :D

Oooo..thems are :boxing: words. :D
He can't ignore me forever. ;) It's a simple fact that a wheelstand like that is just wasting time.

You show me a professional race team pulling the wheels like that, and I'll show you an engineer that made a huge miscalculation. :yes:

But hey, he's just a bracket-racer... the only motorsport ever invented that you can lose by going too fast. :p

Oh I can and now you proven you're CLUELESS!:yes:

How so?

The Wheel stands are almost a necessary evil with stock and super stock cars.

I'll take a stab at it...

One of the only ways to get a stock mounting suspension with a small tire to hook as hard as Ed's ride does is to get a lot of the Y-Component of the weight of the car in your favor. Other wider tired cars don't need as much of the vertical component since there is more friction due to surface area and are not as reliant on the forces of gravity..

Now if I could just shorten my wheelbase to chevelle length it would be a little easier for me too...

1. don't use a stroker combo
2. it ain't easy to achieve your goals with THIS 3700+ lb. nose heavy car, a stock style suspension and 10" tires!
3. it will cost north of $30,000 to build this pump gas car/combo and one that looks as good as it runs
and this is what you call advice . why dint you tell me my car was blue and call that good advise .
the fact of the matter is you dont want to help anyone on this board now do you . and dont take this the wrong way but dont want your advise out of all the post by you on this thread that up there is what you call advise .
there it is folks all that great advise the great "footbreaker" can muster.
now thats knowledge . so thats the knowledge . let me soak it in . ok
ill take the bunny with the pancake on his head . just as informative.

Though not a Chevelle we did run 9.90`s @ 137 mph in pretty warm weather low-mid 80`s lots of humidity and a weak 1.47 60 ft.

69 Camaro 534" (stock GM block with 4.25 stroke)
1050 Pro Systems carb.
Dart single plane conversion manifold.
Dart 325 heads. 119cc chamber
12 cc SRP pistons
UltraDyne hyd roller 255@.050 .650 lift 110 sep single pattern
TH400 w/ATI 8" converter
Dana 60 with 3.73 gears
Caltrac bars Rancho 9 way shocks

Shifting 5800 1-2
6200 2-3

I believe there was about $16-17K in the car all said and done.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/scm-asm/000101120000569.jpg

Guys...How do I make this picture smaller ?

He can't ignore me forever. ;) It's a simple fact that a wheelstand like that is just wasting time.


I didn't know a wheel standing 1.29 60 ft. was an example of wasting time :confused: ;)

1. You can't get a rabbit to sit still with just one pancake on his head!
2. That kind of rabbit will cost you upwards of $30, not counting the pancake.
3. It's pretty obvious, there have to be at least 2 pancakes on the bunny's noggin, otherwise the critter will just spin out and run away!
One pancake? Can't be done! LOL. Sorry, bored.

Leaving to go to the dyno to waste our time on a 535" Aluminum rod Pontiac! Probably won't learn anything from flogging it on the dyno, but it sure is fun when it's someone elses engine!!!!

I didn't know a wheel standing 1.29 60 ft. was an example of wasting time :confused: ;)

I didn't know Ed had a time slip with a 1.29 60' on it?;)

why dint you tell me my car was blue and call that good advise .

I thought that everyone knew that Blue Chevelles are faster.:)

heres a list of what i have done wrong (again)
nose heavy 70, 3720 lbs last week, 10 gals 93 octane
brodix RR, oval port, (polished outside, makes um faster)
torq 2 intake, worst intake you can get, polished also for speed
cam with just under .600 lift, hyd roller, never work
powder coated frame, adds to pig weight
3:50 gears, never will run
turbo 400, 2:75 first gear, never last they say
10" converter, made for my s/b, will blow thru it
275 m/t drag radials, never pull a wheekstand(it wont)
rear shocks from who knows where
p/s, p/b', full stock interior, what a waste(weight)
9.93, 133, blowing thru the converter, belt slipping real bad on the procharger
career t/t now
FULL exhaust, all the way back, tucked up tight
winning jacket at super chevy(show), MIR, priceless

:sad:
still waiting for you to!

Hot about Jim (540HotRod)? 9.90's with a stick, hanging the front hoops a few inches when he hits second and he drives it on thousand-mile trips. This is a combo that's been sorted out over the past several years and is a very impressive ride. Too bad nobody told him you can't do that with a stroker and square port heads...
Equally as important to a lot of us, he has the respect of folks on this and other boards, unlike the guy that claims to have countless email's and PM's asking for his advice :D

LMAO!!!!!!! :D

Ditto! LMAO ! I ALMOST SPIT UP MY BUD LIGHT OVER THIS!

Nobody , I mean NOBODY puts more life in a thread than Bigley!

and for this........if nothing else he's priceless! LOL! :D

Here is a picture of a Bunny with a Pancake on it's Head

http://www.boomspeed.com/mc71454/bunny-pancake.jpg

This! :D

Just wanted to vent!!! SO HERE GOES......
Supposedly FOOTBRAKER just re entered this site! THIS IS a bad way to re enter! YOUR COMMENTS ,AND (HELP) MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A REAL A-H@LE!!
EGOTESTICAL ,just a LITTTTTTTLE. FULL OF SH!T,just a LITTLE.FULL of yourself just a LITTLE! Cruel to others,JUST a LITTLE!!!! You can't seem to QUIT LOVING YOURSELF LONG ENOUGH TO BE ,a human being !!! I am gladd to not know you!! SOME OF THE PEOPLE that pm you are probably just giving you thumbs up for a nice RIDE. (ME TOO!) but dude you need to swallow some of that 3880 lbs of pride!!!! Because some day your going to choke !! AND KNOWBODY will be there to give you the heimlick!!!!!

AS for bustedknuckles,georgia69,bottlerat,and chris69ss, YOU ARE MY FRIGGIN HEROES!! (lol reading your posts)
And for foul69, I hope you meet your goals!!!!!

PS. my car is slow ,therefore no prejudice!!

The Wheel stands are almost a necessary evil with stock and super stock cars.

I'll take a stab at it...

One of the only ways to get a stock mounting suspension with a small tire to hook as hard as Ed's ride does is to get a lot of the Y-Component of the weight of the car in your favor.Makes perfect sense, and it's nice to read a well-thought out technical post without any condescending remarks. :thumbsup:

My suspension experience is much more into the handling aspect, and many principals can be carried over between the 2 types (different purposes, but the same laws of physics). I was really just trying to get some dialog going about what makes this suspension setup work, so I grabbed something I knew would at least get a response... we all know the fastest way to get good information is to post bad information. ;) :D

Other wider tired cars don't need as much of the vertical component since there is more friction due to surface area and are not as reliant on the forces of gravity...You lose me a bit here... they have more tire, and more traction, but are also putting down a lot more power. If the power is coming on as quickly as it does on Ed's car for example, then I would think they should need it just as badly. Are they making up for it with anti-squat, or what?

Makes perfect sense, and it's nice to read a well-thought out technical post without any condescending remarks. :thumbsup:

My suspension experience is much more into the handling aspect, and many principals can be carried over between the 2 types (different purposes, but the same laws of physics). I was really just trying to get some dialog going about what makes this suspension setup work, so I grabbed something I knew would at least get a response... we all know the fastest way to get good information is to post bad information. ;) :D

You lose me a bit here... they have more tire, and more traction, but are also putting down a lot more power. If the power is coming on as quickly as it does on Ed's car for example, then I would think they should need it just as badly. Are they making up for it with anti-squat, or what?

One thing to remember is that a tire and surface will have a certain coefficient of friction, that doesn't change, it is the force put upon the two surfaces that equates to the Friction that will develop. Reall skinny rear tire would needs TONS of downward force to equate to the same friction as a wide tire would need with less downward force. This is why Skinnier snow tires work better than the wider balloon tires in the snow.


I should have added in there that the other wider tired cars are back halved 4-links or ladder bar cars and a lot if not most of us know where the upper and lower control arms intersect on ladder bar cars ! So yes there is usually a lot more anti-squat (downward force due to the motor) with back-halved cars and Very Important, they are also not as nose heavy as Ed's ride our chevelles and as a matter of fact my Monte as well.

This is a very general post. This is not meant to be a "catch-all" there are certainly examples that defy this Generalization...but this is kind of the jist of it..

There are a lot more little things to work out when hitting the tires as hard as Ed's ride does.

I can see me wanting that rear setup in the next few years...it is one Awesome Launch !!!

If I can get my daughter to allow me to take a picture of her Guinea Pig with a Waffle or two on it's head, my night will almost be complete..:D

I'm new to this forum, so this has been real eye opening. I've learned a few things.

1) Square port heads don't run. (Which is bad news for all those guys making 900 plus horsepower with Dart Pro 1's and AFR's.) Evidently there's "good, oval port" horse power and "bad, rec port" horse power.

2) It takes more than $30K to build a big block chevelle that runs 10's.

3) Building a dedicated, big block, chevelle bracket car that run's mid 10's is evidently something cosmic.

4) Cubic inches and HP made with a 4.25" stroke is bad, cubic inches and HP made with a 4" stroke is good.

5) Evidently the phrase "gives good advice" is synonymous with "brag about your car and your superior racing/tuning/set up knowlege while simultaneously refusing to give the board members tips on rear suspension set up."

6) Rabbits with pancakes on thier heads are comic relief. :D

7) Engineering principles, common sense and rational thought need not apply.

Just think, it only took me an hour and 200 plus posts to "learn" all these things.

So what exactly is considered "stock" suspension? There is a lot of range in adjustability in A/S on a Chevelle C4L with the use of relocation brackets and ride-height changes... are those allowed?

OK.

You asked for a stock suspension Chevelle that runs 9's on pump gas?

Here is one:

http://www.gdrphotography.com/gdrgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3964

This car has a 509, aluminum heads & radiator, has run a best of 9.8s & 137 mph, runs off the footbrake. With the stock suspension, he's having problems keeping the car consistant. Think he's going to try a few different things to make it hook better.

Not gonna knock Ed too much-his car is beautiful, runs fast, looks good!

His knowledge is a GREAT way for someone to copy his results (to a point) without having to reinvent the wheel, and how to save hard earned money. Very nice guy to meet in person. Now if his keyboard would just lighten up!

Ed, chill and think before you type. I enjoy seeing you back here, REALLY enjoy hearing your knowlege, and sharing in how your car goes. If someone doesn't agree with you, just let it slide and move on.

According to Ed, his qualifies as stock-appearing suspension, others don't :D. Hell, even if you ran the identical same thing, he'd find something different that disqualified yours.
He's a legend in his own mind ;)

So what exactly is considered "stock" suspension? There is a lot of range in adjustability in A/S on a Chevelle C4L with the use of relocation brackets and ride-height changes... are those allowed?

Derek,

I am not up to speed on all of the rules, so I won't try to give half the information. I am pretty sure there are a few that are reading this that can chime in. Motor Martyr (Brian) works with some of these cars and maybe Ed B. knows all the rules but I will have to let them or anyone else chime in.

There is always a lot to learn for everybody

Here is the rear suspension I plan on using. seems to work very well and it's streetable as well as affordable. Besides I don't want a super secret set up under the 64 and I also do not have bottomless pockets. and also besides if Barry Grant is using TRZ then it must not suck. Check out some of the customers cars.

http://trzmotorsports.com/

that is some nice looking stuff there . might give them a call along with dick miller . his stuff looks good .

Meanwhile, I HAVE offered you advice..advice you don't want to hear!

1. don't use a stroker combo (why ? )
2. it ain't easy to achieve your goals with THIS 3700+ lb. nose heavy car, a stock style suspension and 10" tires! (got it but is it realy easy for any car )
3. it will cost north of $30,000 to build this pump gas car/combo and one that looks as good as it runs ( I did not ask what it cost. but that is a little on the high side as i already have the car and engine.

Ill get busy putting all this great information to use . and can you please put a pic of that rabbit with the pancakes on its head on the side of your car as it has helped this thread as much as you have and needs the pr . and thank you . oh and the mud flaps to , got to go
to all that have posted on here I realy thank you and welcome any and all advice .

Sid, your cousin's car is very very nice and quick but to say he's having a problem with consistency is a bit of an understatement.

The truth is it doesn't work and his suspension is NOT exactly stock with that big anti-roll bar welded in and through the trunk!:noway:

He spent a lot of $ at Rhodes tweaking that "stock" suspension and unfortunately it still doesn't work nor is it on par with my ride!

I watched it launch several times, watched it turn the tire too and as you know, offered him advice.:yes:

Also wasn't aware that was pump gas he was pouring from a 5 gallon fuel jug!;)

So after 17 pages nearly 6300 views and over 244 replies, it looks like we have ONE example that has run 9's but not the day I saw it back in April, running on a very good track in good air cause he was running 10's and slower than my ride!:yes:

Oh and I'll bet it cost far more than $30K to build!

STILL WAITING...

for examples with details, photos and PROOF of 3700+ lb. nose heavy BB street/strip Chevelles running 9's n/a on pump gas WITH small tires AND stock type suspensions that some here are claiming to be pretty easy to achieve!!!:noway:

The truth is it doesn't work and his suspension is NOT stock!
HOW SO?

And I used to think that musicians had big egos....



This has really been a treat.:beers:

Isn't it amazing??? All these years and the only thing that has changed is the cats here on TC have become a lot faster and smarter. Not being bamboozled by talk and pictures/video. Good job guys. I knew I liked this site for a reason.

Isn't it amazing??? All these years and the only thing that has changed is the cats here on TC have become a lot faster and smarter. Not being bamboozled by talk and pictures/video. Good job guys. I knew I liked this site for a reason.

Nice post!
I agree 100%.
I've been here for 3 years, and the help I've gotten got me into the nines with a pump gas NA "featherweight" Nova. I still think Chevelles can easily achieve the same weight. No need to run at 3800 lbs, that's the choice of the owner.
I've shared my results, I've shared my combo. It's all off the shelf and I picked the parts.
I've had more than a few PM's, and I hope my responses have helped all who have asked.
Not going to say it's easy, or cheap, but it's possible.

Despite all the bickering here, it's been one of the more entertaining posts here since I've been a member.

I almost hate to say this......but the bottle has been purchased for my car, and I hope to be in the mid/low nines in a few weeks. I said I never would....but it's going to be an experiment.

My hope is that it leads to (oh my god) a bigger NA motor in the future.... on pump gas of course.

Ed, we clearly can't earn your respect. But in the end, what does that matter? You are one sharp guy, who has endlessly chased yor combo. More than a few here respect that. But I for one only have to acheive my own goals, within my budget, and in my time frame. I have a very busy life outside of racing.

Any respect I've earned here is appreciated more than all of you know.

Rolo Tomassi (AKA Ron454)

No one got the Rolo Tomassi......you all need to watch a few more movies

I would like to ad that . I got to go to the pump gas drags in Mem. and all of the cars there were pumpgas cars and one of them was a white chevelle with a stick in it that almost clicked off a high 8 . there was a tan chevelle there , a 65 i think that also ran a mid 9 that had plenty more in it . my point is neather of those guys post on here as im sure many dont ,point is those cars are out there just cause they dont post on team chevelle or race in NJ with ed does not mean they dont exist. If you look at this thread you will see who is poking who . I have a 69 chevelle that I like and have had for years and i want it fast . there are plenty of camaros around here that can run 9s that i see on the street every now and then . 3 of them in fact and that is just camaros . and yes they have put it on me in the past . I like chevelles that is why i post on here , I will always have one , a chevelle that is . that is what this site is about . helping other guys with chevelles ,and a camaro a long the way . I have worked all the over time I can to save mony to put in my chevelle that includes change that i take out of my pockets i put in a coffie can . I just want to buy the right parts . not stuff i have to change . the information that im looking for will help not just me but everyone on this board . how many times have you been to the strip and lined up beside a nother chevelle not to mention one that post on team chevelle. sorry for the long post but . kinda got off track here. I am not ashamed that i dont know every thing and ask for help .
what type of rear end and what gear?
what size engine and what compression and heads and cam?
what trans tb 350 or tb 400 with a trans brake or without.?
what wheels what backspacing on the rear ?
what suspension ? springs front and rear ,shocks front and rear ?
my car has the full inter and power stearing so its heavy
what slicks to run ?
these are the things i am after. I will be posting the results here on team chevelle. as i get the car assembled . The white '67 Chevelle with the black vinyl top, is Rob Schmidt's from New York and it won the first PGD in '04. The tan '65 has been featured in Hot Rod but it's been a while. The '67 has a 555" or 565" in it with a five speed and some nitrous and the '65 has a 580 something inch motor, some nitrous and i don't remember which transmission. Both run well considering they don't have tons of compression and have to turn the hit down with 93 octane gas. I'd recommend a Ford 9" rear end with 4.11 gears, a well built 'glide and a 9 1/2" or 10" converter from one of the better converter companies, ATI, Pro Torque, Coan, Chance, Ultimate Converter Concepts, etc. For available rear end suspension pieces we have Hotchkis with adjustable upper control arms but their are tons of people making bolt on adjustable stuff that is somewhat less expensive. My son uses the Moroso springs on both ends with no air bags to hinder suspension movement and a Dick Miller anti-roll bar. Good double adjustable shocks are desireable such as Koni, Santhuff, Afco, etc. Get 10" with 5.5" B.S. or 12" wheels and mount 10.5S x 28" M/T or equivilent Hoosiers. The wheels will have to be something you center in the wheelwells and actually the 12" ones work best as you can air them up a little. The motor you have could probably reach your goals. I don't remember what compression you said it had. Going out on the bore will lighten the block some and increase the power a little if it's too high. The CFE heads seem to be the heads of chioce now but we're pretty happy with the 357 AFR's. You have a man down in your neck of the woods that can point you in the right direction on heads. See Larry Meaux in Abbeyville, La., aka. MaxRace Software on the web. Good luck and ask anything, if i know the answer i'll be glad to help.