first off let me state i did research on here, i know there are a ton of topics related to what im trying to decide apon. however i dont recall reading about what im asking about. please be patient with me im new to this and ive got alot to learn. this is my first frame-off.

i was looking in the NPD catalog. on page 40 of the 2006 edition they have a hotchkis set-up. it non-adjustible, boxed uppers and lowers, as well as upper to lower brace. it states it eliminates wheel hop. i dont plan on racing. i was just wondering if anyone has this kit? or knows somone who has tried it. it list complete for $664.95

directly above this on same page is hotchkis springs. front and back "matched set." has anyone used these? it says it lowers ride hieght 1", im guessing with the tired springs i had in it would be pretty close to the way it sat before i started resto, is this correct?. they list for $329.95

im wondering how good is this set-up? how good is the ride? scince i will be doing alot of cruising i want it to be the best i can get. however without giving up any performence. i still wanna be able to get on her and go if i need be if you know what i mean. plus i never know if i will ever go to the track one day. i do know im not building it for that.

last but not least in same catolog there are some shocks there. KYB. anyone ever tried these? for the amount of money are they worth it. am i better off with monroe's or something? KYB's list for $142.95 for all 4.

with all the above is that a set-up id be happy with? any suggestions? can i beat NPD's price somewhere else? im looking at almost $1200.00 bucks here im guessing i can find same stuff or another brand that does what i want/need cheaper, but are they better?

thnx again sorry so long, i cant tell you how much i appreciate all your guys help in this project im doing so far. im very glad i found this club and became a member. i hope i can help people as you have helped me in the future.

don't know about the front end stuff, or springs. But, I did have the hotchkiss rear arms (and the brace too) and kyb shocks. If you have wheel hop, the hotchkiss arms won't necessariuly fix it. Didn't work for me. I switched to edelbrock double adjustable uppers, with the sherical ends. The lowers I switched to SSM/Jegster lift bars. THAT fixed the wheel hop. I kept the brace though. The KYB's.... they work ok. Pretty stiff. Probably not ideal for max handling, or drag racing, but they are firm and wokr ok for street driving.

Thats my experience. I bet others have opinions on these parts too :)

well thats what i was afraid of. that it doesnt work. for that money you would think it would. as far as the front end stuff, the only thing i mentioned about the front end were the springs and shocks. everything else was rear control arms upper and lower.

i was also looking at the UMI performence stuff.

i know this has pobably been talked about alot. but i really didnt see anything on this set-up. anyone have anything else?

I have used the 1" drop springs in the front and rear of my 66 and they work good.

I have used the 1" drop springs in the front and rear of my 66 and they work good.


what shocks did you use?

Rigid arms with poly bushings in the rear is a horrible setup... sure it may eliminate wheelhop, but only because it binds everything up so much it doesn't move as it should.

Ride height has more to do with wheelhop than arm/bushing construction... lifted cars hop a lot, stock height cars hop a little, and lowered cars typically do not hop.

so somone please help me out what type of set-up would be best for me?

im almost done with the frame its going to be blasted and painted within 2 weeks. so i will be ordering stuff soon. i know no hurry but to do it the right way. thats why im asking. i dont want to order the wrong stuff. who better to ask then guys that have tried and know about this stuff.

Nutt, I've only been here a few years but Derek would be one of the suspension guru's I would turn to for advice. I'm kinda guessing on this...But I don't think theres much he hasn't tried and in the long run his advice will get you results and save buying twice.

What is your budget, performance goals, and desired ride-height? Also, do you have the tools and ability to do things like welding or pressing in bushings?

A great low-cost rear suspension setup that I'm very happy with is what I just did on my wife's '66 wagon. I bought Edelbrock Adjustable Uppers (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D5249&N=700+400065+305371+115&autoview=sku) from Summit for $220/pr

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/edl-5249.jpg

These come with a pair of polyurethane bushings for the upper housing ears, but I did not use them there. I pressed them into the stock lowers instead on the frame-side, and bought just 4 rubber bushings for the 2 axle side on the lowers, and 2 in the housing ears for the uppers. This allows the rear axle to articulate over bumps, reduces bind, and the adjustable uppers allow for easy driveline angle adjustment.

I re-used the stock lowers, but welded in a plate kit to reinforce them like the stock 69-72 F41 boxed lower arms. I found them for $33 at OPG, but they may be cheaper elsewhere. Box Blate Kit (http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?topcatid=28&chapterid=796&topvalue=0&newflag=0&grpcode=14889&yearrange=#photo)

I then used a stock '69-72 F41 rear sway-bar, which I bought directly from my local GM dealership for somewhere around $100.

Springs and shocks will depend on your budget, but I recommend something in the 550-575# Front and 135-150# Rear range with revalved Bilstein shocks from Hotchkis. Those are expensive shocks, but they are worth every penny. You won't be disappointed when you buy GOOD shocks.

What is your budget, performance goals, and desired ride-height? Also, do you have the tools and ability to do things like welding or pressing in bushings?

A great low-cost rear suspension setup that I'm very happy with is what I just did on my wife's '66 wagon. I bought Edelbrock Adjustable Uppers (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D5249&N=700+400065+305371+115&autoview=sku) from Summit for $220/pr

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/edl-5249.jpg

These come with a pair of polyurethane bushings for the upper housing ears, but I did not use them there. I pressed them into the stock lowers instead on the frame-side, and bought just 4 rubber bushings for the 2 axle side on the lowers, and 2 in the housing ears for the uppers. This allows the rear axle to articulate over bumps, reduces bind, and the adjustable uppers allow for easy driveline angle adjustment.

I re-used the stock lowers, but welded in a plate kit to reinforce them like the stock 69-72 F41 boxed lower arms. I found them for $33 at OPG, but they may be cheaper elsewhere. Box Blate Kit (http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?topcatid=28&chapterid=796&topvalue=0&newflag=0&grpcode=14889&yearrange=#photo)

I then used a stock '69-72 F41 rear sway-bar, which I bought directly from my local GM dealership for somewhere around $100.

Springs and shocks will depend on your budget, but I recommend something in the 550-575# Front and 135-150# Rear range with revalved Bilstein shocks from Hotchkis. Those are expensive shocks, but they are worth every penny. You won't be disappointed when you buy GOOD shocks.


budget , im not gonna say skys the limit. if it means taking longer to finish this frame off then so be it. im not worried about time as far as completion. im worried about time as far as having to re-do something. so to answer your question, id rather do as resonible as price i can get. i dont want the most expensive. i know it can be done just as good at lower cost without the big names etc. this is always the case. so i have no prob going 1000 bucks or a bit more, on the suspension.

performence goals?? im not building this to race. im mainly gonna cruise, but if should happen ( if ya know what i mean ) or i ever get a bug up my rear to go to track i wanna have a good set-up. mainly for cruising. ( ride ) but i want it to be able to hook up as well. i understand if some ride needs to be givin up for the performance end. just so ya know i had ladder bars on this back in the day so anything has to be a better ride .

i have the know-how. ( a friend which has done many frame-offs is helping me ) i also have tools, torch,mig just about everything, he has press.

so the set-up your refferring to how much $$ am i looking at. alos this is for a 66 i noticed your is a 69. dont know if this makes a difference since that years wheel base is shorter.

i seen the box kit at ground-up so i know what your talking about in fact they have a kit for $289 that has boxed lower control arms, sway bar and all mounting harware. everything needed for the org f-41 set-up.

just curious would i still hook up the brace that goes from the bottom lower to upper/frame?

so how much is the springs, shocks and uppers? any links? thanx derek

Hey, nutt, if you're ever in the west suburbs of chicago, just yell. I can show you what the hotchkis setup will be like, I have it.

I use the 1" drop springs all around, with their big swaybars. I use bilstein shocks, though. Ride is tight (maybe too stiff for some, but it's a performance suspension, not a caddy), cornering is awesome. Zero wheelhop, I use rubber bushings in the uppers of my Moser 12 bolt, which is setup to reduce wheelhop by raising the upper ears a little. I didn't have wheelhop before the moser, however.

New bushings and not raising the rear end high should help or eliminate your wheelhop, without going to any custom setups.

Hey, nutt, if you're ever in the west suburbs of chicago, just yell. I can show you what the hotchkis setup will be like, I have it.

I use the 1" drop springs all around, with their big swaybars. I use bilstein shocks, though. Ride is tight (maybe too stiff for some, but it's a performance suspension, not a caddy), cornering is awesome. Zero wheelhop, I use rubber bushings in the uppers of my Moser 12 bolt, which is setup to reduce wheelhop by raising the upper ears a little. I didn't have wheelhop before the moser, however.

New bushings and not raising the rear end high should help or eliminate your wheelhop, without going to any custom setups.

thnx will do, however not sure ill have wheel hop. see im in the process of a frame off. im getting ready to have frame blasted and painted. then its install of the new parts time. i just dont want to make a mistake and use the wrong stuff. from what your saying sounds like that set-up is going to be to stiff. im going to be cruising this more then ill be neededing to race it. i want a set-up if i did race to be able to keep the wheel hop out and let me hook up as best i can while still giving me a decent ride when i cruise. maybe im asking for to much?

Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, adjustable upper trailing arms(Edelbrock/Global West) w-rubber bushings in the ears or stock uppers w-new rubber bushings. As for the lowers trailing, there are a couple of options:
1. Box the stock arms and install new bushings(rubber)
2. Aftermarket arms like Global west or Currie-trac.
If you had to spend your money on upper OR lowers I'd put your money towars the lowers.
As for sway bars the standard F-41 stuff (1-1/4 front 7/8 rear) works great and can be had for a reasonable cost.
Avoid the boxed arms with urethane bushings, they tend to bind and therefore ride stiff.
And if you want to look into more, on the front, upper A-arms should do the trick, check our SC and C or even CPP (classic performance) these will improve turn in response and straight line stability.
This should give you a well rounded performance handling car without being too harsh and should make for a nice well mannered daily driver as well.
These set up's wll work with whatever your budget is and the parts will give you a great return on your investment.

I have Hotchkis Lowers, the above mentioned Edelbrock adjustable uppers, Hotchkis brace's, Eibach 2" lowering springs all around, Hotchkis front sway bar & Global West front arms. I know I am probably the odd man out but I have a great riding/handling set-up, no wheel hop & launches pretty good at the track.

Binding issues with solid arm/poly bushed arms are mostly with the upper arms. They locate the rear axle and because they swing in conflicting arcs they`re hypersensitive to bushing type and need to have some freedom of motion in torsion (they have to be able to twist). There are soem arms on the market with a spherical bearing on the frame side to help eliminate binding and it hels a LOT. Watch out for race oriented arms with steel race bearings though. They transfer a lot of road vibration and noise to the frame and wear rapidly in wet or dirty environments (the street). The Edelbrocks shown about are good but I`m wary of the single small weld joint on the saddle end and high horsepower cars. Currectrac arms have the same greasable joint (Edelbrock "borrowed" it from them) but are MUCH more beefy. We have clients running those on 8sec. cars with no problems. Currectrac lower are about the same price as everyone elses but also have a greasable Johnny joint on the frame side. They`re the best combo for these cars we`ve ever used.
Avoid KYB shocks like the plague. They have a unique combination of poor ride AND poor handling as well as spotty valving. For those running them who think their car drives really well, try a set of Bilsteins,Konis are Varishocks and you`ll be in love all over again. :thumbsup:
We`ve had great luck with Eibach springs,I recomend them. With the right shocks the car will ride and handle like an Audi (or better :D ).
ALl this stuff will help but if you want the car to really drive and handle great you`ll get better results if you improve the front end geometry and alignment specs with something like a Street Comp Stage 2 package. :yes: Mark SC&C

Binding issues with solid arm/poly bushed arms are mostly with the upper arms. They locate the rear axle and because they swing in conflicting arcs they`re hypersensitive to bushing type and need to have some freedom of motion in torsion (they have to be able to twist). There are soem arms on the market with a spherical bearing on the frame side to help eliminate binding and it hels a LOT. Watch out for race oriented arms with steel race bearings though. They transfer a lot of road vibration and noise to the frame and wear rapidly in wet or dirty environments (the street). The Edelbrocks shown about are good but I`m wary of the single small weld joint on the saddle end and high horsepower cars. Currectrac arms have the same greasable joint (Edelbrock "borrowed" it from them) but are MUCH more beefy. We have clients running those on 8sec. cars with no problems. Currectrac lower are about the same price as everyone elses but also have a greasable Johnny joint on the frame side. They`re the best combo for these cars we`ve ever used.
Avoid KYB shocks like the plague. They have a unique combination of poor ride AND poor handling as well as spotty valving. For those running them who think their car drives really well, try a set of Bilsteins,Konis are Varishocks and you`ll be in love all over again. :thumbsup:
We`ve had great luck with Eibach springs,I recomend them. With the right shocks the car will ride and handle like an Audi (or better :D ).
ALl this stuff will help but if you want the car to really drive and handle great you`ll get better results if you improve the front end geometry and alignment specs with something like a Street Comp Stage 2 package. :yes: Mark SC&C

this stage 2 set-up your talking about, what all come included in kit? is this just for the front?

Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, adjustable upper trailing arms(Edelbrock/Global West) w-rubber bushings in the ears or stock uppers w-new rubber bushings. As for the lowers trailing, there are a couple of options:
1. Box the stock arms and install new bushings(rubber)
2. Aftermarket arms like Global west or Currie-trac.
If you had to spend your money on upper OR lowers I'd put your money towars the lowers.
As for sway bars the standard F-41 stuff (1-1/4 front 7/8 rear) works great and can be had for a reasonable cost.
Avoid the boxed arms with urethane bushings, they tend to bind and therefore ride stiff.
And if you want to look into more, on the front, upper A-arms should do the trick, check our SC and C or even CPP (classic performance) these will improve turn in response and straight line stability.
This should give you a well rounded performance handling car without being too harsh and should make for a nice well mannered daily driver as well.
These set up's wll work with whatever your budget is and the parts will give you a great return on your investment.



thnx im gonna look into this. where can i find prices on these bilstein shocks? anyone have an idea where the best deal is?

I have the Hotchkis kit with the adjustable uppers and braces and the 1 inch front springs. I like the rear suspension as it is solid and I have no wheelhop. Getting the ride height I wanted took some doing as I ended up using stock 65 springs in the rear to get the slight rake that I like. As for the price I got a deal on the rear kit because it was a "blem" set because the powder coating was not perfect I picked up the rear kit for under $500.

Here's a photo of the Currie upper arms Mark mentioned. Compare this photo to the photo of the E-brand arms to see what he's talking about. The Currie's are BEEFY. Their johnny-jointed lower arms are also very nice pieces.

http://heartland.chevelles.net/RCstorage/currieupper1.jpg

Here's a photo of the Currie upper arms Mark mentioned. Compare this photo to the photo of the E-brand arms to see what he's talking about. The Currie's are BEEFY. Their johnny-jointed lower arms are also very nice pieces.

http://heartland.chevelles.net/RCstorage/currieupper1.jpg

yes i can clearly see that. do you have a link for these? hopefully some place that has the best deal?

yes i can clearly see that. do you have a link for these? hopefully some place that has the best deal?

Best deal I've found was from SC&C. I haven't seen them available anywhere at a discount. You can also buy direct from Currie, but the price is the same as SC&C but with SC&C you get their great customer service (not that I'm doubting Currie customer service quality, but I do know SC&C's service is top notch).

If you want links: http://www.scandc.com/currectrac.htm

and

http://www.currieenterprises.com/CEStore/Product596.aspx?id=1600

NOTE: if you are working on a 68-72 the upper arms you want are different than the 64-67 arms I used but the price is the same. The lower arms are all the same for all 64-72 cars.

how are those edelbrock springs and shocks? i guess they lower the car 1.5 inches front and rear. the shocks are set up for the springs. anyone use these?

Any of the lowering springs should be stiffer than stock - if you want to lower the car, but keep the same suspension movement (contributes to ride quality), you should probably be looking at drop spindles instead of shorter springs.

With the right shocks (bilsteins) and good swaybars, you could probably use stock springs that way.