Is there anything out there from Lunati or crane that gives better numbers? I really dont want to screw up the cam choice again, and i read in a previous topic that there was supposidly a lunati cam that was an updated xe262 with better numbers, but hte part number listed doesnt exist.

(im ordering it tonight for christmas i just want to double check)

Chadwick,

Lunati has a VooDoo 262 that beat the Xtreme Energy 262 on the dyno. Every cam tried was at least 10 ftlbs of torque and 10 BHP better than the Xtreme Energy equivalent. I know the VooDoo 268 beat the XE268 by 10ftlbs at 3000, 16 BHP at peak, and then at 5800, as both cams were going down, we have 28 more BHP than the XE. The entire VooDoo line also does not have any valve train noise or clatter, just a good exhaust note. I drove the VooDoo 268 in a 88 Camaro around Bowling Green for a little bit--a couple of days--and I was very impressed with the throttle response, etc.
VooDoo 262---part #60102
262/268 at .006
219/227 at .050
.468/.489 valve lift
112 LSA.
VooDoo 268---part #60103
268/276 at .006
227/233 at .050
.489/.504 valve lift
110 LSA
These are not updated Xtreme Energy cams, but a whole new ballgame.
These are 'Cams Done Right!'

UDHarold

Harold... I am very interested in the Voodoo 256 for my 9.3:1 327. Are these Voodoo dyno graphs available to the public anywhere?

When will the cam and lifter sets be available, and will the price be in line with the Comp stuff?

Thanks!

Novadude,

I am trying to get some made now, but Lunati plans to have them 'in good supply' by the end of January. The VooDoo 256 is part #60101LK for cam and lifters, and it is VERY competitively priced vs the Xtreme Energy line. The BBC part # is 60201LK.
Specs are:
60101 SBC 256
256/262 at .006
213/219 at .050
.454/.468 valve lift
112 LSA, 108 ICL
60201 BBC 256
256/262 at .006
213/219 at .050
.515/.530 valve lift
112 LSA, 108 ICL
The larger BBC lobes are different from the SBC ones, and the lobes for the 340 & 440 Chryslers are true Chrysler designs, for the .904" tappet.

UDHarold

Originally posted by UDHarold:
Chadwick,

Lunati has a VooDoo 262 that beat the Xtreme Energy 262 on the dyno. Every cam tried was at least 10 ftlbs of torque and 10 BHP better than the Xtreme Energy equivalent. I know the VooDoo 268 beat the XE268 by 10ftlbs at 3000, 16 BHP at peak, and then at 5800, as both cams were going down, we have 28 more BHP than the XE. The entire VooDoo line also does not have any valve train noise or clatter, just a good exhaust note. I drove the VooDoo 268 in a 88 Camaro around Bowling Green for a little bit--a couple of days--and I was very impressed with the throttle response, etc.
VooDoo 262---part #60102
262/268 at .006
219/227 at .050
.468/.489 valve lift
112 LSA.
VooDoo 268---part #60103
268/276 at .006
227/233 at .050
.489/.504 valve lift
110 LSA
These are not updated Xtreme Energy cams, but a whole new ballgame.
These are 'Cams Done Right!'

UDHarold I havea couple of questions, not to be argumentative here, just a rookie trying to learn...

If the Lunati 262 cam is 219/227 at .050 and .468/.489 lift, compared to the Comp 262 cam at 218/224 and .462/.469, I don't really see how the Lunati cam can close the valve more gently on the seat. It has about the same seat timing and more lift. But then, I can't say that my XE262 has any clatter or valve noise either. Also, do you have the specs handy on the motor you did the dyno tests with? About the only thing I can say as a novice is that I have learned for sure that every combo is different. While a stock head with a poor exhaust port might need the extra lift and duration on the exhaust side you get with the Lunati cam, isn't it possible that the XE cam (or even a single pattern cam) might outperform the Lunati cam on a motor with aftermarket heads and a better flowing exhaust port?

UDHarold,

Does Voodoo have anything in the line that would out-perform the Comp Cam CB XS262S-10 Solid lifter cam(part number 11-675-4) for a BBC (454).
I want to keep the lift at or very close to .532.

Thanks,
Fred.

Mike,

The engine was a 9.1:1 CR 355 with Holley heads, a Holley 300-36 two-plane mainfold, Holley 650 carb and 1 5/8" headers---In other words, just a good street engine.Both the larger Xtreme Energy and the larger VooDoo cams over-cammed this engine quite a bit. I want to build a 10.5:1 CR engine to test the Solid lifter VooDoos against their matching Xtreme Energy versions, and to also retest the larger hydraulic cams.
As far as closing the valve gentler, it's a 'trade secret', although I shut it about 10% faster than stock GM hydraulics---the Xtreme Energy series is about 40% faster, and about 250% higher acceleration rate at contact.
It's all about math, and I like math.....
At .200" cam lift, the VooDoo 262 is 2° to 5° bigger than the XE 262, and the VooDoo 268 is 3° to 6° bigger than the XE268.
It's not really magic at all, just math.....

UDHarold

PS---In one of our tests, we put a STOCK Vortec head on this block, and tried a VooDoo 256/256-12 in it. Power peak was about 4800, but the cam pulled up to 6200(where our shut-off was) with STOCK Vortec springs......
ALL the VooDoo hydraulic cams share the same ramps.

Fred,

Here are the VooDoo solids, with the XS262S for comparison:
.015 .050 .200 valve lift, 1.7:1
256 223 135 .533
262 229 141 .550
268 235 148 .567
276 243 156 .590
284 251 164 .615
290 257 170 .632
298 265 175 .632

The XE XS262S:
262 224 135 .532
268 230 140 .532

Lunati's VooDoo 262 dual pattern cam is definitely larger than CC'x XS262S.
You might like the VooDoo 256 with 223/229 at .050, 135/141 at .200, .533/.550 valve lift, and on 110 LSA. It is 6° shorter at .015", and bigger above .200", which means more torque everywhere.....

UDHarold

As far as closing the valve gentler, it's a 'trade secret', although I shut it about 10% faster than stock GM hydraulics---the Xtreme Energy series is about 40% faster, and about 250% higher acceleration rate at contact.
It's all about math, and I like math.....I like what I hear! smile.gif

When you say faster than GM stock Hydraulics, are you talking about the 929 cam? Though Comp has never revealed details, I assumed the XE stuff had high accelerations, and that scared me, since my M.E. training tends to make me a bit conservative! ;)

I guess computers make stuff possible that could not happen in the slide rules days. ;)

RE: the 256/256-12 you mentioned above... is that a single pattern? Are there other cams in the Voodoo line that are not in the online catalog yet?

Did you test the 256/262 in the Vortec headed motor? I am curious as to where the dual pattern made peak HP / torque.

Thanks.

Novadude,

Yes, I mean closing rate in comparison to the 929, a good reliable piece.
The single-pattern 256 was made to test in an
EFI engine, which we have not done yet. We tested a number of 256/262's on different LSAs, and there was a question on one at 5800. I thought it was that individual cam, not the profile, so we tested the 256/256 with stock Vortec heads, and the 256 revved like it should. The other heads had too much seat and not enough open for the .454 lift of the 256.
We did not test any other cams in the Vortec head-combo, but the 256/262 should peak about 200 RPM higher.....

UDHarold

Out until tonight.... I've got to work....

Thanks for the info Harold.

Another question (for anybody)...I'm building a daily driver 350 for my 64 C10. It will have about 8.5 compression as I want to run 87 octane to save money. Is the 929 cam still available from GM? Is there an aftermarket equivalent? I want a completely smooth idle like the 929.

The other heads had too much seat and not enough open for the .454 lift of the 256.I'm a little confused by this statement, as the information I have seen shows the SystemMax Holley heads, and the Vortec heads to have similar flow in the .050-.300 lift range.

Can you elaborate? Are the Voodoo cams more geared twords engines with stock / Vortec type heads, or are they intended for heads that flow like the common 180-200 cc aftermarket heads?

Just trying to get a handle on the design intent.

Originally posted by UDHarold:
Chadwick,

Lunati has a VooDoo 262 that beat the Xtreme Energy 262 on the dyno. Every cam tried was at least 10 ftlbs of torque and 10 BHP better than the Xtreme Energy equivalent. I know the VooDoo 268 beat the XE268 by 10ftlbs at 3000, 16 BHP at peak, and then at 5800, as both cams were going down, we have 28 more BHP than the XE. The entire VooDoo line also does not have any valve train noise or clatter, just a good exhaust note. I drove the VooDoo 268 in a 88 Camaro around Bowling Green for a little bit--a couple of days--and I was very impressed with the throttle response, etc.
VooDoo 262---part #60102
262/268 at .006
219/227 at .050
.468/.489 valve lift
112 LSA.
VooDoo 268---part #60103
268/276 at .006
227/233 at .050
.489/.504 valve lift
110 LSA
These are not updated Xtreme Energy cams, but a whole new ballgame.
These are 'Cams Done Right!'

UDHarold Sweet dude, that is exactly what i wanted to hear. I decided i would go with teh xe268 at first, because even though im sacrificing the torque down low, i gain it up high, and compared to my current cam i would actually lose HP while the 268 would give me about the same hp. Your cam basically takes the minor flaws in the xe268 and fixes them, fricken sweet, going to order it from jegs.

Hey my valve springs from my performer RPM should be fine with this cam right? My dad would hate to have to change them again, and hte motor wont be getting pulled this time so it would really suck if we had to.

One thing i noticed, when i try to enter those cam specs into desktop dyno, i end up with horrible numbers, using the cam math calculator to determine the IVO, EVO, and stuff it generates a horrible curve not even close to the xe268. Is something wrong with the program or is this what would happen with my engine?

We tested a number of 256/262's on different LSAs, and there was a question on one at 5800.I'm sorta surprised to see that you settled on the 112 LSA. As I have always understood LSA, wide spreads are a bit of a compromise, providing a wider, flatter torque curve at the expense of peak torque. Right, or wrong?

UDHarold,

I'm running a Lunati 272/284 (216/228 @0.050) with similar lift (0.454, 0.480) and the same 112 lsa. Is it very similar to the voodoo line or is the profile significantly different. The 262 is 10 degrees shorter on the seat so the ramp is evidently steeper. Woould the performance be much better with the voodooo line? How old is the line of cam that I'm using now? I think the part no was 06109.

Clyde

UDHarold,

Thanks for the information, now I need to do a little research.

Thanks,
Fred.

UDHarold,

I dont know if you overlooked my last reply, but if you did this is the jist of it..

I entered the values you provided for the voodoo 268 into the cam math calculator in Dyno2000, the resulting curve was basically the curve for my Performer RPM cam. It wasn't even close to the curve for the Comp xe268. Now if i change the lifter type from hydraulic flat tappet, to solid, the curve makes an awesome curve that seems to fit your description of what i should expect.

Heres What I entered into dyno2000:
Timing Specs @ .050
LCA: 110
IC: 106
Intake Duration: 227
Exhaust Duration: 233
Intake Lift (v): .489
Exhaust Lift (v): .504
----------- Resulting in the following numbers:
IVO (BTDC): 7.5
IVC (ABDC): 39.5
EVO (BBDC): 50.5
EVC (ATDC): 2.5

Are those all correct? THey deffinantly dont perform as you suggested. I choose hte 268 over the 262 because the 262 would drop my horsepower from what i have now, even though it gets me more torque, but the 268 was making just a bit less torque without sacrificing any top end, and is capable of nice numbers with future mods.

Am i missing something here?

Dude, the desktop dyno is not an end-all knower of HP. Keep in mind that all it is in putting is timing specs at .050 lift, but MANY MANY cams have the exact or nearly exact same .050 duration specs but he engine doesn't really care what the .050 specs are. They're just a way of comparing cams.

The numbers that matter more are .100, .200, .300 where the cam will spend most of its time. But desktop dyno doesn't take this into consideration. These numbers would more accurately display the cam's aggresiveness.

Making more power with similar advertised durations is the "trade secret" he speaks of.

Keep in mind that Harold was the one that designed the old but reliable HE line of cams for Comp Cams. He knows his stuff.

so your saying that if i get the Voodoo 268 its gaurenteed to outperform the comp xe268?

Like i said in my first post, i cant afford to make the same mistake twice, and i dont want to swap cams and not even notice the difference, compared to this cam according to desktop dyno the xe268 should be night and day so hopefully the voodoo 268 will live up to the claims being made here :/ .

Are the Voodoo Solid cams out yet? What are the specs for the solid 268 or 274. I'm running 9.8 CR on a 355 AFR 195 Heads, etc. Which one would you reccmoned? I have the Comp. xs268 but am wondering how yours match up. Whats the lash on those cams?

Chadwick,

Are you claiming that the numbers you entered into Dyno2000, and my cam lost to the Comp?
How many miles do you drive your Dyno2000 on the street every year?
Almost all of those programs are written by people who do not understand cams, and who have not desigined cams.
The numbers at the seat should be 27-61-70-26, which the engine sees a lot more accurately than the numbers at .050.
At .050, you are very accurate, I have 7.4-39.6-50-3, very close to yours. Are you putting .050 in for my cam, and the seat numbers for Comp?
The BHP numbers I quoted are from our dyno tests, and are in our ads. There was never a VooDoo cam that did not beat its' corresponding Xtreme Energy piece.
However, I never garauntee performance any more. Too many people, generally the ones wanting the garauntee, can't put the cam in correctly, and want to blame me for their results. We did not lose a single cam of the aproximate 20 we dynoed, both Xtreme Energy and VooDoo, yet I will bet some people will lose VooDoos during break-in. Holley insisted I stay FURTHER away from the edge than I did on my old hydraulic cams, and many of those have gone the 100,000-mile test.
If you are unsure, buy the Comp Cams. Everyone knows their reputation. But there's a new Sheriff in town now.....

UDHarold

AllGoNoShow,

I have a VooDoo 276 waiting its' turn on the dyno. I hope to have masters for the 268 by Chrismas.
Here are the specs:
VooDoo 268 268/276 235/243 .500/.521 110
VooDoo 276 276/284 243/251 .521/.542 110

Lash on both cams, both valves, is .016" HOT, although the cam will run from .012" to .022", for tuning.
I'd probably use the 268. I think the 276 would be happier in a 10.2:1 engine, but we'll see what the dyno says. Right now there's a 9.1:1 355 on the dyno, awaiting some of my hydraulic rollers. Our bigger hydraulics over-cammed that engine.

UDHarold

Thanks Harold. I like the look off it. Defintetly get back to me after the dyno testing-are you gonna test the solid counterparts back to back as well or just the hydraulics? Think these cams mind 1.6 rockers?

OO and by the way, fire your Marketing Department. Voodoo cams? How'd they come up with that one? Up all night with the munchies smoking dobbies or something? smile.gif

hey, you have no idea how glad I am to see you had seen my first post at all. I knew there had to be something else out there, nobody watches "the king of the hill" and not try to outdo them smile.gif

Well putting in your seat-to-seat numbers did hte trick, that put it nearly exactly at the numbers for hte 268, beating it some places, losing it in others, but nothing substantial.. see the image:
http://www.chadrichard.net/other/cam_compare.jpg

Can you give me hte numbers for hte seat-to-seat of hte voodoo 262, i wonder how it would compare smile.gif

I deffinantly would rather run one of your cams than comp, i have heard nothign but bad about comp cams, and after our last cam swap we know of everything to watch out for when installing (we screwed up two things, but luckily the cam survived problem free :D )

How about reliability/wear-and-tear of the new cams?

oh yeah, you never replied with whether or not my valve springs would work, i was told they would be fine for hte xe262 and xe268 so im assuming that they would be fine with yours?

Chadwick,

Sure. The VooDoo line does not require special springs. Any spring that works with the XE line should work with ours. Those Vortec springs had only 80 lbs on the seat, and very low open pressure. The ones that did not work had 140 lbs on the seat.
I generally reccommend 110 lbs on the seat, 320 lbs open if you're looking for 6400-6500 on top.

UDHarold

Harold- What is the rpm range of your 268 solid in a 355 SBC? I need something that can cruise at 1,800rpms in 5th gear on the highway and still hall butt at the track. Just want to see if I would be giving up any low end with your cam compared to my current xs268.

Also, where and how soon can I buy them? 1st quater of next year or so? Winter's are long up here anywas! What are we talking about for price as well?$120-150 for cam or so?

Harold, so my 80lb springs would be just fine as long as i dont overrev the engine is what you saying.

can you give me the 4 numbers at the seat for the voodoo 262 so i can see if it would be better, thanks smile.gif

really interesting thread can any one tell me were this cam will idle without a load in a 350 and what initial timing you would run?

My Voodoo 268 idles at about 850 in Park and 725 in gear.
I'm running a stock HEI distributor at 18 degrees BTDC in Park, vacuum plugged.

This is in my 350+.030 with flat tops and 76cc 1.94 heads, 1 5/8" shortie headers, Holley Street Dominator Dual plane and Holley 750 vacuum secondary.

66Buick Special, how do you like the driveability of your cam? Do you think it is too much lope for a daily driver? How well does the 750 Holley match your combo?

I bought a 262 Voodoo for the 383 I built for my 72 truck, but am wondering if i shouldn't have gone with the 268. The truck has ~ 9.4:1 compression, ported #186 heads and a RPM Q-Jet intake, 1 5/8" headers and a 3.00" dual exhaust with an X pipe, 4 spd and 4.10 gears. It's a daily driver, and spends a lot of time in L.A. traffic. I originally chose the 262 for the idle quality. Thank you, Wes

You guys realize how old this thread is??

12/6 through 12/10/04!!!

GOOD THREAD THO!!!

pdq67

No I hadn't noticed pdq! :)

Hi Wes,

I went from a stock cammed 350+.030 with 1.84 heads and quadrajet although I had already installed the headers and 2.5" duals through Magnaflows prior to the build, to what I have now.

The difference is awesome! :thumbsup: I have way more throttle response, a lot more torque, and a nice lope at idle.:D
I am also running 13lbs of vacuum at idle which should be plenty for accessories.
I was hesitant to run the 750vac sec. at first but figured I could tweak the secondaries to open a little later if it was a problem. Well, now I have to change springs and get them to open sooner. My tach flies to about 4200-4400 then drags to 5000. I haven't pushed it beyond that yet. I'm anticipaiting a 6200 redline once I get the carb dialed in. Before the swap with the airshocks pumped, it was struggling to spin the 275's from a power brake situation. Now at idle I can stand on the gas and instantly light the same tires up. Not to mention the hard 2nd gear bark at 4200rpm, although it has done that as low as 2500rpm depending on conditions.



My eh hmmm :o , airshock failure brought my testing to a halt due to tire rub. My rear springs were waaayyy to soft. I've since removed the airshocks, changed rear springs, and added Monroe gas shocks but am still rubbing. Now I am ordering Air Lift 1000 air bags for the rear to remedy my problem.

As far as idle quality goes, It definitely lopes (which I wanted) but even with a TH350 and 3.08 gears it drives nicely even in traffic. At around 30-35 in Drive you can slightly feel the cam bumping but definitely not bothersome. I doubt passengers would notice unless you called their attention to it.

It's a weird feeling to describe but, since the cam, heads, intake, and carb swap at 40-45mph and 2400rpm (most of my cruising speed) the car feels like it just wants to go!!!:D It's hard to explain, but it runs so effortlessly at that rpm that it's like it's begging you to jump on it!

Sorry for the long response. It's Friday night and I should be cruising right now but I'm tired of hearing the tires on the fenders.:(

Greg

Well, I have been working on a new line of hydraulic cams for December.....
Several of them are designed already. Here is my XE262H replacement.....
265/271@.006", 219/225@.050", 132/138@.200", .470"/.486" valve lift, probably 112 LSA for best vacuum. These shut the valve down on the seat slightly faster than a stock 929 does, about like the VooDoo as far as seating is concerned. It opens a lilttle faster than a VooDoo, so it should even sound better.
The numbers I quote at .006" are the true numbers, the machine will accurately make those numbers.
The 1st cam designed was a 259-213.12-126.41-.454", the biggest so far is 303-257.12-171.15-.570".
The 259-213-126.41-.454" is ONE degree fatter at .200" than the 256 VooDoo. I would not replace any VooDoo cam, unless I wanted a bigger or smaller one. These should be a lilttle torkier.....
Hopefully we will have a full line-up before the PRI show, and they should include solid lifter cams.

UDHarold

For those who like to look at DCR, the TRUE .004" timing numbers are
IVO 26 BTDC IVC 67 ABDC EVO 73 BBDC EVC 26 ATDC. This is what the valve actually sees, and will give you what you are looking for.

Greg, thanks for the detailed explanation. It sounds like a nice street set-up. I think I better stick with the 262, because a lopey idle won't mesh too well with my 2 1/2 - 3 hour daily round-trip commute.

Harold, I've been wanting to try one of your designs/grinds for a long time. This 262 will be my first.

Thanks again, Wes

UDH,

Do you have the rest of the hydro line designed already? If so, what are the particulars? How about .100 and .300 numbers? With the faster opening, do you think it will affect longevity? In general, would a greater pressure angle, less margin (more velocity), and impact loading have an effect on durability? TIA.