Hey Guys,
I've been bored the last week, I have a few hundred dollars burning a hole in my pocket and I've decided I want to make the 65 "fun" for the next year perfecting the combo with some parts I already have. I want to get crazy with the combo in about a year, but I thought for now going with a milder cam(thanks Unclepennybags) and matching a converter to it, even with the current 3.36 gears I might actually like the current combo enough that I'll forget about my plans to "go big" with it in a few months graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Here's what I have to start with:

350 .040"
Flattop pistons 4 valve relief. Compression could range anywhere from 9:1 - 10:1 I want to try and get by without removing the heads for now.
Resized 5.7 Eagle rods with ARP bolts
Edelbrock RPM heads 64 cc
Intake - open to suggestions
3310 Holley 750cfm
HEI distributer, blaster II coil external 32* total timing, havent a clue where it all comes in, set the 32* with the car reved at like 2500-3
Converter - open to suggestions
Gears are 3.36 peglegs

I'm planning to pull the motor to replace the oilpan as mentioned in my last post. The cam I figured I'd put in is my Ultradyne I have sitting here which is a 276/286H12 221/230 A.050" .454/.454" lift.

I have a knockoff AirGap Intake, I want to get an Edelbrock, would a Performer RPM be ideal for the combo?

Stall, I have no clue whats in it right now, I assume it has a little to it, so I figured I'd replace it as long as the motor was out and the converter was easy to change. I figure a cheaper B&M would be ok since for now its practically a 100% street car, am I thinking wrong here? What size would I want? Stall range?

With that combo, are those gears ok? If not, what would be an ideal rear gear for that combo? I wouldn't be doing that now, but a ballpark would be great to keep in mind for later if I find myself happy with the 357.

I figure with the milder cam in it, with the 3.36's it'll certainly be better with this cam than the 302 advertised .509" lift 108 lob sep cam thats in it. smile.gif

Thanks For any input! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well, the ultradyne cam you have is good. I mean, there are probably some better choices, but its there for free, so why waste money on another one when you sound like there is a good possibility for changes shortly anyways. Id stab in that camshaft, get a performer rpm intake, stick with your gears, and go with about a 2500 converter. If you were to buy another camshaft, Harold says his new line of cams surely outperforms the old ones. Id consider a voodo 268 cam for a new cam with that combo, with everything else being the same as I mentioned before. Id ask him just in case, but that would be my guess. I figure that with .040 over flat tops and a 64cc head, it would be hard for you to have less than 9.5:1 compression. Just for example, lets say the deck is stock at .025 and youve got a .040 thick gasket. Also, assume that your flat tops have pretty big valve releifs that equal 8.5cc all together. In that case, youve still got 9.5:1 compression, so you should have enough static comp to support that camshaft. Your gears are good enough. Id probably consider a 3.55 or 3.73 if I was starting from scratch, but really, youve already got a descent gear and swapping to a gear like that would only make a mild difference, so I dont see it being worth the cost. Id wait til you(if you) go ahead and build up the motor more and then change gears. For now, keep things mostly as they are and the milder cam should help out a bit compared to the current/giant cam and your combo.

Steve,

One of the advantages of running a good cylinder head (like the Edelbrock heads that you have) is that you can run a milder camshaft and make good reliable power with less valvetrain strain and idle problems than the guy "cheaping out" on cylinder heads and trying to make up for it with a big cam.

The only things that I'd like to add is that you will want a good quality converter - ATI or Coan. If you buy a converter on price alone, you will be selling yourself short. Let them know what the rest of your combo is, and you'll have a great converter that brings your combo alive. Here is a link http://www.coanracing.com/

I would bet that you could run up to 36 degrees of total timing. Give it a try. Going from 32 to 36 with my 327 made a significant difference. At any rate, mine is all in by ~2800 rpm. My base is 16 BTDC. This is something that won't cost much but needs to be correct.

The above changes should get you 90% of the way to where you want to be. You might consider getting a smaller carb. Your engine would probably be more responsive with a 600-650 cfm unit. If you go Qj, you'll pick up even more responsiveness AND likely pick up 1-2 mpg as well. Back in my rich and bored single days, I ran back to back tests with brand new box stock carbs (several Qjs and 600 cfm Holley) and found that you can't beat a good Qj. Don't be afraid of running a Pontiac or Oldsmobile Qj if you can't find a good Chevy Quadrajet. Generally, you want to leave the primary jetting alone and go with a "BG" or similar secondary rod. If you decide to stick with a Holley, you can buy good used 1850s and 80457s on ebay all day long for cheap. Here is a likely suspect:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4518205121&category=34198&sspagename=WDVW

The Performer intake is cheap and hard to beat.

Your gear ratio is okay.

Mike

Aren't all Q-Jets 750 or larger? I'm sure he could tune that holley down to work great on the street.

Rob

If that knockoff manifold is a good one then why not keep it? Even if the edelbrock is "better" you may not want to spend $200 for minimal HP. And if the only bad part about it is the casting flash then you can easily clean that up... especially since it's aluminum.

But if you do decide to get a new manifold I would avoid the air-gap and just get the performer RPM. I have the air-gap and it looks great, but I switched from a regular RPM to it and found no difference (seat-of-the-pants dyno). It's also a LOT taller which causes hood clearance, is hard to clean, and is too expensive IMO.

Just trying to save you some bucks.

If you are buying a converter then I would suggest something that can be re-stalled later for your more aggressive engine combo. Reason being is converters are expensive and it pays to get a good one... you don't want to have to buy 2 of them. 2500+ stall sounds pretty good for now though.

Originally posted by mfsr:
Aren't all Q-Jets 750 or larger? I'm sure he could tune that holley down to work great on the street.

Rob Yes, BUT the primaries are much smaller than the primaries in a Holley. Gives better low rpm torque and responsiveness.

Mike

Other than the heads my combo is very similar to yours. I just have ported 882 heads (the ones everyone hates so much), with a performer and 650 holly spreadbore. Same pistons and near identical cam. All balanced and such...

I have stock stall in my 700R4 and 3.08 gears and I can say that with any more low end grunt tire spin would become a problem, and on smoother pavements 1st gear is useless as it is. My dad must have ported those heads just right or else he lied to me about which ones he put on.

I think you will be very pleased with your combo. With the better heads, good stall, and shorter gears it should move well, especially if your car is lighter than the 3860 my weighs with 1/4 tank and me in it.

Guys,
Thanks for the replies!

It sounds like this idea should work fairly well. Here's the deal. I wanted to try and do this "upgrade" with about $500.
Here's how it broke down before:
-$100 oilpan
-$100 Lifters, Gaskets, Break-In Lube(Already spent yesterday)
-$20 Waterpump (Needs a new one, found it was the reason I was tossing belts at the track, the snout was screwy)
-$130 Plain Jane Edelbrock Performer RPM
Total- $350
That would have only left me with about $150 for a converter, plus I'm sure I could have come up with a couple bucks from selling the old intake.

Casey brought up a good point though on the intake, the difference in power from my Pro Products Air Gap and the regular Performer RPM probably is only maybe 5 or 10 horsepower, nothing really great. So perhaps I should keep that intake and put that money towards a better converter.

The only thing that I'm worried about is inevitably the "knick knacks" add up when doing things like this so Im thinking I should probably budget ~$40 for that.

I know the ATI and Coan converters are extremely nice pieces, but I doubt they fit in the budget. Is there a decent quality $200-250 converter that will work ok, albeit not as good as an ATI or Coan? I'm pretty sure too theres a local TC member with a B&M torquemaster lightly used for well under $100 that stalls at 2000 rpms... should I perhaps just pick that up since it'd be about the quality of the range of $200 converters to use for now?

This project is something to keep me entertained for the next week or so, make the 65 run better and whatnot. Work starts the 24th, but due to the nature of the position, I'm likely to still be reasonably broke for another 6 months, then I'll be financially secure for a while.

Again, thanks for the replies!

edit Just was looking at the Coan site that Mike provided.
Under their "refurbished" section they have these:

#0473 Diameter: 11 Transmission: TH MP: STD Stall: 24-2600
STREET PERFORMANCE"BLEM" CONVERTER $135.00

#0450 Diameter: 11 Transmission: TH MP: STD Stall: 24-2600
STREET PERFORMANCE CONVERTER $200.00

Would either of those be decent choices?

Is that 3310 a Vacuum Secondary? If so, you could have one of my black (really friggin stiff) secondary springs. Might restrict a few cfm so that you won't be so over-carb'd.

Reuse the manifold and put the money towards the converter. I doubt you feel any difference between the 2 intakes on the street. Good Luck smile.gif

Steve,

Definately change the converter. The one that I'm using is COA 20212 (11" pro-street), but either of the two that you mentioned should work fine.

If you are tight on cash, you could always save the intake swap for another time.

Is your intake Qj compatible?

Mike

All,
Thanks for all the replies!
Enrique, Might be interested in trying one out. It is a 3310 750 vac. secondaries.

Mike,
I called Coan today and ordered the 11" Street Converter 2400-2600 stall.

I had just budgeted only like 150 for a B&M type converter, without buying another intake I just went ahead and got the Coan. No biggie graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks for the advice on that one guys! :cool:

Intake is pure squarebore, I could run an adapter plate I suppose, but for now I think I'll be happy with the combo even slightly overcarbed, Enrique's spring might do the job. I'll try a smaller carb when I get the cash to blow later this year.

Not exactly tight on cash, I have a nice savings, but, being that my new job is commissions only, I want to make sure that I have some money to fall back on in case life throws a curveball my way, just playing it safe I guess. smile.gif

Thanks Again!

Just stop by, I have 2 black springs so you can have one if you like.

If you want to do some track testing of 750cfm vs. 600 cfm just tell me what date you want to run at Irwindale and I'll drive over in the 'velle with a half inch wrench and you can borrow the 600cfm I have. Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to swap carbs.

Sounds like your plan is coming together. Let us know how it runs!

Mike