67 trans ID [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: 67 trans ID


67pete300
Jun 2nd, 07, 3:06 PM
I am using Dale's excellent CD to break down all the numbers on my numbers matching original 67 300. So far everything matches up but I have a question about the 3 speed column-shifted transmission.

The engine code is F0519CA. CA (according to the CD) means 230 with 3-speed overdrive. The overdrive is the part I don't get. Does my car have overdrive? I can't figure what the 3 gear ratios are for my transmission. Here's more.

The trans code is S7E31. S is not listed on the CD as a possible option. The CD lists "D" as the code for Saginaw.

The "Power Teams" section of the CD lists 3.36 as the standard axle for a 230 3 Speed. It lists 3.70 as the only axle for an overdrive. My axle code is CB0525B. CB corresponds to 3.36.

The Trans Type (Block 1) of the body broadcast sheet lists "3C." The C means "column" and I assume the "3" means 3 speed, but again this is not listed on the CD (which has "M" for manual, "P" for powerglide, or "T" for turbo).

The transmission section of the CD lists 2.85/1.68/1.00 for the "GM Standard 3 speed manual" for the L6 and 2.86/1.72/1.00 for the Heavy Duty version. The only overdrive gear I see in that chart is listed for the TH400 (2.48/1.48/1.00/.78) which I thought was a three speed.

So I believe I have a 3 speed Saginaw with a 3.36 axle, but I can't figure what the gears are. Does this really have an overdrive?

elcamino
Jun 2nd, 07, 4:22 PM
What does CD refer to?????

CA in my GM parts book only says

F0519CA
CA.....................230 cid................3-sp manual trans

According the my part book again, S - Saginaw (overdrive 1966)
So I would assume that in other years, it did not mean overdrive because the part books show other letters for 68(D) and 69(O).

So there is some ambiguity in the coding, normal for Chevrolet. Sometimes you got to trust what you have if its original and don't worry, be happy. :yes:

DaleM
Jun 2nd, 07, 4:59 PM
The engine code is F0519CA. CA (according to the CD) means 230 with 3-speed overdrive. The overdrive is the part I don't get. Does my car have overdrive? I can't figure what the 3 gear ratios are for my transmission. Here's more.
I wish you'd written me for the answers to some of your questions instead of posting it here, but I'll try to help.

The CA suffix code is shown for a 230 6-cyl w/3 speed overdrive. Whether your Chevelle still has the overdrive seems to be the question. Look at the top photos on the Transmission page and see if yours does indeed look like the top transmission or the second one.

The trans code is S7E31. S is not listed on the CD as a possible option. The CD lists "D" as the code for Saginaw.

Are you talking about the code on the POP vs a stamping on the transmission? The 1966 Saginaw 3-speed with overdrive does indeed have the letter "S" for a Saginaw 3-speed w/OD for Chevelles; the 1967 version uses the letter "D" for Chevelles and "S" is shown for a Saginaw 3-speed in passenger cars and light trucks EXCEPT overdrive. Since the CD is about Chevelles, full size car/Camaro/Corvette/Nova information isn't listed. The dating format appears to be a 1967 format where the month is a letter and different from the 1966 dating format where the month is a number. It's entirely possible that my resource materials are incorrect with the trans ID code of "D" or "S" but it's also possible (1) the transmission was changed at some point or (2) the incorrect transmission was installed. The CA and CB coded engines are identical but the CA (w/OD) would have extra linkages installed.

The overdrive is actuated by a manually operated lockout switch located under the instrument panel to the right of the steering column. Does you car have such a switch? I have a photo of one on a 1966 Chevelle that is on that CD but don't ahve a photo of one on a 1967 Chevelle.

Let me know if the "S" is on your POP or on the transmission itself. Could you send me a scan or clear photo if it is and I'll certainly make the revision if it's on there. If it's not on the POP, what is on the POP?

The "Power Teams" section of the CD lists 3.36 as the standard axle for a 230 3 Speed. It lists 3.70 as the only axle for an overdrive. My axle code is CB0525B. CB corresponds to 3.36. So this is correct, correct?


The Trans Type (Block 1) of the body broadcast sheet lists "3C." The C means "column" and I assume the "3" means 3 speed, but again this is not listed on the CD (which has "M" for manual, "P" for powerglide, or "T" for turbo).
I assume you mean your body broadcast sheet lists 3C? I have no examples or resource to go by for a 3-speed equipped Chevelle so I hesitated to list it that way. However, being a manual shift transmission car and a column shift, a 3-speed would be the only choice. Again, if you have a copy of your BODY BROADCAST SHEET, I'd like to see it (and use it) for future updates.


The transmission section of the CD lists 2.85/1.68/1.00 for the "GM Standard 3 speed manual" for the L6 and 2.86/1.72/1.00 for the Heavy Duty version. The only overdrive gear I see in that chart is listed for the TH400 (2.48/1.48/1.00/.78) which I thought was a three speed. You are quite right here, the TH 400 has NO 4th gear or overdrive. My typo and that column should read n/a. I was thinking of the 4L80E (an OD version of the TH400) and that was much later. That will be fixed.

The 3-speed O.D. was different from other, modern O.D. transmisisons in as much as it didn't just work with the 1:1 top gear. It could be engaged in any gear to reduce that gear. The normal 1st gear went from 2.85 to 1.995, 2nd gear went from 1.68 to 1.176 and 3rd gear went from 1.00 to 0.70 - each gear could experience a 30% reduction individually.

So I believe I have a 3 speed Saginaw with a 3.36 axle, but I can't figure what the gears are. Does this really have an overdrive?
* According to all sources, the CA engine code was suppose to have an overdrive.
* The S7E31 should be a full size car overdrive code but mistakes are possible.
* You'd have to physcally check the transmission to see if it still has the overdrive.
* And it'd be nice to know what's on the POP in the transmission section.

67pete300
Jun 2nd, 07, 7:35 PM
OK, sorry Dale, no offense, I love the CD and I am having a great time chasing all the numbers. I'll send you an email. Here's a quick response.
It is definitely a "CA" car, the POP and block match here. It is definitely not an overdrive car as there is no actuator on the dash.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2653000-2653999/2653024_2_full.jpg

The trans code I mentioned is from the POP. I'll have to dive under the car tonight to find a number on the trans itself.

The car was assembled late in 67 (June), so I guess there is still some mystery here? This is great fun.

DaleM
Jun 3rd, 07, 1:10 AM
None taken, others may just not know what you're referencing :) Somewhere there's a mixup on the engine ID code but it's not uncommon. The CA code is for an overdrive but there could be numerous reasons the engine was installed with the standard transmission. Maybe the person joining the engine and trans assemblies just didn't see the overdrive designation and grabbed the first manual trans coded engine he saw - could happen easily.

I'd love to see more pictures of the car itself, engine compartment, trim tag, etc. And, most especially a 'in-the-driver-seat' photo of the 300 steering wheel.

From the photo above, it looks like a very clean car. I envy you! I've been looking for a clean, drivable, and affordable 300 or 300 Deluxe but all I've found are $30,000+ restored cars or $30 rat's nests with Fred Flintstone power and braking. LOL

67pete300
Jun 3rd, 07, 7:54 AM
I'd love to see more pictures of the car itself, engine compartment, trim tag, etc. And, most especially a 'in-the-driver-seat' photo of the 300 steering wheel.

You can see some more pictures at the link in my signature. I'll work on the driver-seat picture. I sent you an email with the POP, broadcast sheet, etc.

From the photo above, it looks like a very clean car. I envy you! I've been looking for a clean, drivable, and affordable 300 or 300 Deluxe but all I've found are $30,000+ restored cars or $30 rat's nests with Fred Flintstone power and braking. LOL

I'm having great fun with it. It is a true "survivor" or "original" as you point out. I got it from the original owner for what I believe to be a reasonable price. :thumbsup:

tar6569
Jun 3rd, 07, 10:14 PM
The CD you mentioned sounds like a TH400 from a 68 fullsize chevrolet with a 327. Could you post all of the tag numbers on the trans and the stamped vin on the lower side?
Warren

DaleM
Jun 4th, 07, 1:20 AM
The CD you mentioned sounds like a TH400 from a 68 fullsize chevrolet with a 327. Could you post all of the tag numbers on the trans and the stamped vin on the lower side?
Warren

You are quite right here, the TH 400 has NO 4th gear or overdrive. My typo and that column should read n/a. I was thinking of the 4L80E (an OD version of the TH400) and that was much later. That will be fixed.
Just a typo. :)

67pete300
Jun 4th, 07, 9:38 PM
Could you post all of the tag numbers on the trans and the stamped vin on the lower side?
Warren

So far I can't find the trans code that matches the POP. All I can find are the casting numbers on the various parts. Here is what I have:
Trans body: GM5 E237 3925647
Trans cover: GM5 3919365 E19
Tailshaft housing: E247
Bellhousing: 3858403

Did you mean that the VIN should be stamped into the trans somewhere?

DaleM
Jun 4th, 07, 10:47 PM
So far I can't find the trans code that matches the POP. All I can find are the casting numbers on the various parts. Here is what I have:
Trans body: GM5 E237 3925647
Trans cover: GM5 3919365 E19
Tailshaft housing: E247
Bellhousing: 3858403

Did you mean that the VIN should be stamped into the trans somewhere?Colvin's book shows the following on casting numbers.
1967:
Maincase - 3858986
Extension housing - 3860042
Sidecover - 3858992 (low performance), 3919365 standard with this note, "Some reliable sources state that the #3858992 sidecover was a first design, while the #3919365 sidecover, which was used in 1968, as a second design. This has been unverified to date." This may just verify it with the May 1967 casting dates.

Interesting to note that your maincase number of 3925647 does appear as the maincase number for 1968.

In 67 and 68 there are different gear ratios listed for the 'Low Performance' vs. the standard 3-speed Saginaw.
Low Performance lists 1st: 2.85:1, 2nd: 1.68:1, 3rd: 1:1 and reverse: 2.95:1 where the standard is listed as 1st: 2.54:1, 2nd: 1.50:1, 3rd: 1:1 and reverse:2.63:1.

CON VIN would probably not be stamped on the transmission of a 300 6-cyl car in 67. :)