what we are hoping to acheieve. big block chevy running on pump gas 427or 454 making a min of 500 hp no more than 550 hp with a high torque of 480 min . can this be done with a 427 or will it need to be a 454. helping a friend .
what he would like to use is all gm type parts crank rods forged, decent forged pistons with a hyd flat tappet cam. yeah i know tough to acheieve .
anyways combo proven ideas cam compression heads rectangle or oval . this will be a street driven motor most likely using a old school gm duel plane alum intake. he is also considering inexpensive heads like edelbrock canfield etc. wants to run like 10.5.12 compression.
331 gears for driveability . cam choices . ? car does have power breaks so vaccum is needed . what combo,s will get this to its goal . ? he is not looking to build a 15 thousand dollar motor . just looking for reliable dependable driveable fun that will hold up to a lil bit of dragstrip usage etc.
thanks much guys. comments suggestions combos cam shaft heads etc.

If we are going to have to buy a crank then I would go with a cast Scat rotating kit and make a 489 CID. Let the cubes make the power goal then you can mildly cam the engine and have a very user friendly combo for the street. Also going this route he could pick up a good set of OEM heads with just good seat work and make the power. This would be very easy on the budget.

427 can do it, but at a higher rpm, and given your gear choice and preference for a hyd flat tappet, I say keep it a 4" arm ( or even 4.25").

Plenty of stout 454 combos on here, search it, 781-049 or small port aftermaket heads , something akin to the old Ultradyne 288/296H10 or H07 camshaft, 10.5:1 , hypers slugs OK since you;ll be short shifting at 6. Dual plane 169 mani is fine, exept its rectal port. Many claim this can be run on ovals, but on a 3.31 geared street mill...??? never done did it meeself. Can see how narrowing the ports as they near the intake enhances the "ram" effect some. No matter, find a oval Edel RPM and grind all the markings off it & Shoot it orange! ;)

First key is mating the correct new pistons and new heads. Eg., a 215 clsoed chambered casting will give 10.5:1 with some domes, but cant be used with others. 781 casting , open chamber, can have chambers as big as 122cc, so which slugs/domes if you source 781? as examples.

FWIW, a 215 casting with flattops and a 4.25" arm can get you damn close to 10:1. Pretty far out flame front on that setup. Big torque. with a close centerline cam and 3000 stall ( cant go much beyond that with 3.31s), shoudl get your eally close to your goal. Wicked arse idle though.

Your goal should be 500 ft lbs, not 500 hp btw.

Build sample:

-454 .030 over.
-Stock crank
-Stock rods with ground beams and polished, shot peened, ARP hardware
-TRW L2349F .030 forged pistons (about $400 for a decent street slug)
-781 GM heads with 2.19/1.88 SS valves and street strip ort work
-Dual plane aluminum high rise manifold like Perfromer RPm or stealth
-Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 275/285 adv duration; 230-235 intake
Dur @ .050; 240-245 exh, dur @ .050; mid to upper 500 lift range like 550- 575; 110 LSA;
-750-850 CFM carb

IMO this should get you in the 500/500 hp Tq region with street manners but will probably need a vaccuum can for power brakes. Will need a 2500-3000 converter if using automatic.

interesting idea,s . myself id like to see him do a 454 or bigger like maybe a 496 on the mild side. then again the 489 does sound like a nice idea . yeah he is on a tight budget and this will most likely take him almost 2 years to gather parts and such . trying to talk him into a set of 840 heads that i know of that can be had rather cheap . how big of a role will the block play in this . im all for a 4 bolt main but if kept at or under 6k could he get away with a nicely prepped 2 bolt. ? curious myself . but if i get my way he will buy a 4 bolt block. LOL. thanks guys keep the info comin please.

Build sample:

-454 .030 over.
-Stock crank
-Stock rods with ground beams and polished, shot peened, ARP hardware
-TRW L2349F .030 forged pistons (about $400 for a decent street slug)
-781 GM heads with 2.19/1.88 SS valves and street strip ort work
-Dual plane aluminum high rise manifold like Perfromer RPm or stealth
-Hydraulic flat tappet cam with approx 275/285 adv duration; 230-235 intake
Dur @ .050; 240-245 exh, dur @ .050; mid to upper 500 lift range like 550- 575; 110 LSA;
-750-850 CFM carb

IMO this should get you in the 500/500 hp Tq region with street manners but will probably need a vaccuum can for power brakes. Will need a 2500-3000 converter if using automatic.

I think you'd be hard pressed to squeeze 500/500 out of that combo without more cam (at least more lift) than that, especially with a flat tappet hydraulic.

im all for a 4 bolt main but if kept at or under 6k could he get away with a nicely prepped 2 bolt. ? curious myself . but if i get my way he will buy a 4 bolt block. LOL. thanks guys keep the info comin please.

A big block two-bolt main is a pretty stout thing. Unless the combo is going to be consistantly seeing 6000+ RPM a well prepped two-bolt will be more than enough for a 427 or 454 combo. A four-bolt block is nice to have, but it wouldn't be at the top of my shopping list given such goals and budget concerns.

what we are hoping to acheieve. big block chevy running on pump gas 427or 454 making a min of 500 hp no more than 550 hp with a high torque of 480 min . can this be done with a 427 or will it need to be a 454. helping a friend .
what he would like to use is all gm type parts crank rods forged, decent forged pistons with a hyd flat tappet cam. yeah i know tough to acheieve .
anyways combo proven ideas cam compression heads rectangle or oval . this will be a street driven motor most likely using a old school gm duel plane alum intake. he is also considering inexpensive heads like edelbrock canfield etc. wants to run like 10.5.12 compression.
331 gears for driveability . cam choices . ? car does have power breaks so vaccum is needed . what combo,s will get this to its goal . ? he is not looking to build a 15 thousand dollar motor . just looking for reliable dependable driveable fun that will hold up to a lil bit of dragstrip usage etc.
thanks much guys. comments suggestions combos cam shaft heads etc.
=
Joe,
Stock bore 454, L2465F,
A weenie Isky 270/280 Mega hyd flat tappet, 221/232. .542/.565, 110LC Cam,
Brodix RR W/CNC Chamber, Ede Air Gap, Holley 870 Avenger.
9.7 compression
505-510HP at about 5800 on my dyno
This thing idled like a kitten & as I recall had about 15-17" of vacuum at about 750 or 800
I have the whole curve if you want it but I will need to make the big trip to the dyno room out past the wolves, through the gate,,, & you know how far that is,,,, :D

Priceless specific information for you Joe from a very qualified dude that had this combo on a dyno..
Team Chevelle is lucky to have you Mike.

Priceless specific information for you Joe from a very qualified dude that had this combo on a dyno..
Team Chevelle is lucky to have you Mike.

yes we are lucky to have mike. i have one of his 540,s he did for me and man i just love that motor so much makes me smile everytime i drive it. its down right now as i wait for a header mod from the new steering i just installed. knowing mikes dyno i say that 454 has a nickle or a dime left in it maybe a whole quarter. LOL many thanks mike:thumbsup:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165818pic of that 540 when it came home. :D :D

heres a pic of my 540 from Mike
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/5/12019555074.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5366123)

Thanks everyone for the kind words & for posting the cool pics :beers:

Hey Jim,
License?

Hey Mike
June 2nd is the day...At our track(which was sold to a private owner this week) you can only license at official NHRA events. I put in the new lexan windshield...and extra dzus hood fastners.

I think you'd be hard pressed to squeeze 500/500 out of that combo without more cam (at least more lift) than that, especially with a flat tappet hydraulic.


I dont see how what I recomended is much different from what Mike (Wolfplace recomeneded) both Domed pistons to get about 10:1 and cam recomendations are close to same too. Only difference is heads.

Great to have Wolfplace on here. Always helps everyone, and Id say to the original poster you just got some recomendatiois from one of the masters...take the advice!

For those that asked about the whole combo of the 454 above
with corrected cam numbers,,
And I was wrong, it made peak power at 5300 not 5800,,,,:)


super mild daily driver

Stock bore 454, 9.8 compression,
Sealed Power L2465F pistons,
Brodix RR oval w/CNC chamber, Comp Pro mag rockers
Ede Air gap intake, Holley 870 street Avenger carb
Isky 221/232 - .527/.549, 110 sep hyd flat tappet
91 octane pump, oil 211 water 176
36 degrees, HEI trigger w/6al box

CHP CTQ
3000 285.5 505.6
3500 349.3 524.2
4000 401.9 527.7
4400 454.3 542.3 PK TRQ
4500 462.6 539.9
5000 491.0 515.7
5300 505.8 501.2 PK PWR
5500 499.1 476.6
5900 490.1 436.3

Mike,those are interesting numbers..reminds of my .030 over 454 that has .100 tall domes that are .008 down the bore, a pair of well prepped 063's with 2.19/1.88 valves (flow 268/214) and an Ultradyne cam that specs out to 223/231- .525/.550,112 LSA hyd flat tappet.It pulls 15.5-16" of vacuum as well.

Mine likes the 1-2 shift at 5300,2-3 shift 5500
I bet mine makes its max HP and max TQ same as your combo and probably comes close to the same amount of HP/TQ (wishful thinking! :) )

Mike,those are interesting numbers..reminds of my .030 over 454 that has .100 tall domes that are .008 down the bore, a pair of well prepped 063's with 2.19/1.88 valves (flow 268/214) and an Ultradyne cam that specs out to 223/231- .525/.550,112 LSA hyd flat tappet.It pulls 15.5-16" of vacuum as well.

Mine likes the 1-2 shift at 5300,2-3 shift 5500
I bet mine makes its max HP and max TQ same as your combo and probably comes close to the same amount of HP/TQ (wishful thinking! :) )
=
Hi Chris,

LOL,,
Yea, this went into a 4wd Blazer & he says it pulls his trailer up hills pretty well,:)

My dyno is not noted for huge numbers compared to some :D
Here are a few very real world examples I have posted before.
I call these my "reality check" engines

Deal is I am not affiliated with any manufacturer, don't advertise in the magazines & don't inflate my numbers for anyone or for sales.

I have found GM's numbers to be very representative of the ones advertised by GM
Difference between my numbers & GM run about 4% which is the approximate difference in corrections between the two accepted correction factors.


GM 502 "off road" hyd roller engine
Advertised as 450HP, 550 lb ft.
On my dyno 472HP, 560 lb ft

GM 454HO hyd roller
Again, advertised as 425HP, 500 lb ft.
On my dyno this was 450HP & 522lb ft

GM ZZ383 Crate
Advertised 425HP, 460lb ft
On my dyno 434HP, 452 lb ft

And more recently, a 489, 10.0 compression, Brodix RR Rect port heads, Brodix modified dual plane intake, Holley HP 1000, Isky 252/260 solid roller, 2" headers.
RPM HP Torque
3100 315 533
3500 369 553
4000 440 577
4500 511 596
5000 561 589
5500 599 572
6000 613 536
6500 602 486

Peak power 614 @ 6200 Peak torque 597 @ 4600
===========

And yet another to give you an idea of what the RR heads are capable of with a little more aggresive set up

469, (4.320x4) 11.0 compression, Brodix RR Rect heads with CNC chamber, T&D 1.7/1.7 shaft rockers, Ede Victor with Pro System's Dominator, 2" dyno header w/3.5" collector to 6" exhaust, fuel was 50/50 91pump & Phillips 110
Custom Comp cam 254/262, .703 lift, 110 sep, 106 ICL (this cam rocks,,,,)


RPM CHP CTRQ
3300 275 438
3500 302 453.5
4000 385 506
4500 476 555
4800 512 560.4 PK TQ
5000 529 556
5500 585 559
6000 618 541
6500 656 530
6900 685 529 PK PWR
7000 682 522