Finally got on the SuperFlow 901 Dyno with my 439 ci Brodix BB-O head motor to-day ,
Made 18 pulls..started right up, no leaks, no surprises ....ran it for 45 minutes @30* total timing to break it in and get oil hot etc etc. Changed oil... no metal in filter or oil .....relashed the valves @.026 plugs NGK-8's .... 94 Octane pump gas " Mohawk Premium Plus" for the Canadians on here

BTW just prior to my motor a 468BBC with big valve 781's same compresion, same cam and intake as mine from same builder was dyno'd

Started with jetting in 950hp with 73/78's made various pulls at 33*, 35* then jetted up to 78/79 more pulls 35 and 37 made 563hp@ 6000 rpm and 545torque @4600 ..... BSFC high 30's low 40's Max rpm to this point 6200

Jetted up to 79/81 tried 37* and then 39* took it to 6400 rpm , water temp between 150-168 all pulls

I was stunned !!!! HP..... 594.6 @6400
Trq. 563.5 @4500

The torque curve ...3900 rpm 539.4
4500 rpm 563.5
6000 rpm 501 .1

BSFC from 4000 up were 44/43 til 6200 then went 46 til 6400

Yes we could have spun the motor higher than 6400 and maybe leaned it out but at that point I was more than pleased and did not want to push my luck .... can't believe how nice it idles at 920rpm 9hg

Tried HVH 1" 4hole spacer .... no gain


I was almost reluctant to post these numbers but talked to my builder and another respected builder and compared notes and other dyno info and they all agreed ....the combination works ...
Will post dyno sheets when I return to work Monday where I have a scanner.

Thanks to everyone here who shared all the good info ....UD Harold ....Brodix heads, Mike Lewis, and of course Dave Millar my engine builder all who took the time to talk to me about the project ... Dave Ray for a great ignition .. the curve was spot on, no knock, K Jett for a great post on his 950 HP setting and generally sharing all his info ...very helpful

For those who are wondering about that other motor .... the 468 with 781's but otherwise identical to mine ........The Baby Rat and Brodix BB-O's made 45.6 hp MORE !!!! graemlins/hurray.gif

Dyno sheet ....you may have to click on view, text size and select large to view in readable size
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/CDNSS/bill3.jpg

:eek: :D Bill, either that dyno's really generous, or... well, I "AIN'T" RACING YOU!!!!

graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by CDN SS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hamrdown:
How do those Brodix RR BB-O flow so much air? With stock exhaust ports 270cc intake ports and no work done to them they seem to out flow all other Brodix heads (to .600 lift) all the way up to the BB-5 w/ a 387cc intake port!
Am I reading this correct (from thier catalog) or am I missing something?
Mitch I can't explain how they flow so much ....but I can tell how well they make HP/ torque ...lots of torque smile.gif .....just back from a day at the Dyno with my 439ci motor with BB-O's and a 468 ci with big valve 781's ....same cam and same compresion , same intake ...... same dyno
My motor made 45.6 hp MORE than the 781 468 !!! Don't have a scanner here at home to post dyno result sheets so no sense in quoting numbers without back up but no question these BB O's WORK and for the price over a good set of 781's it's a no brainer IMHO

Extremely pleased with results !!!
Big Thanks to Mike Lewis aka Wolfplace who supplied the heads at a great price and more importantly who ecouraged me to go for the 115cc CNC chambers

Bill </font>[/QUOTE]=

Congratulations on the great numbers Bill graemlins/beers.gif
Between those heads that are "too small" & "aren't any better than ported 781's" & Harold's cam you should be VERY PLEASED graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Regardless of numbers, back to back tests on the same dyno tend to be very reliable & the numbers followed the 489 I did very well considering engine sizes,,

You don't suppose there is something to the "rumor" that there is more to heads than just flow numbers do ya :D

Thanks for the call today & thanks for letting us help a little with your project. ============

Bill, I posted this on the "Cast iron BBC head vs. Aftermarket BBC head" post but here it is again,,
& again, job well done graemlins/beers.gif

"Bill, either that dyno's really generous or"

Gene I know what your saying,I thought the same thing Thats why I was reluctant to post the info , Harold told my builder this cam makes 610hp in a 468 with good heads FWIW , actually I think it says that on the Lunati site as well ...anyway reagarless I was pleased at how nice the motor runs and the real proof will be how works in the car
Bill

Thanks Mike , now to get the rest of the car done. Would be interesting to know of other results with these heads ....I know what Brodix says in their ads but would be nice to see another result.

What's the current PN# on that cam?? Or what are the specs??

The cam is an UltraDyne .I bot it literally as Harold closing his doors 285/295 251/ 260 @.050 630 lift 110 lsa 104 icl

Lunati version, from their website catalog

Roller Over 610 BHP from 10:1 468, excellent street life. Use 4-speed or 10" converter, 3.90:1 or better. Power 3000 to 7000. 290 300 255 264 0.630 0.630 0.371 0.371 110 104 22 BTDC 53 ABDC 68 BBDC 16 ATDC 502A2LUN UR32 UR33 02-UR32-UR33-10-A01 0.022 0.

how much are the brodix heads, sounds like it is time to sh tcan the 781's, especially since my bud with the 502 going into his 69 will probably be at the 550hp mark with the new cam he is putin in and the accel dfi system he is going to put on it. I would think those 270 cc intakes and the 370cfm flow would work real well with my 680/700 lift lunati cam. What size chamber are those heads, please say around 118.

Talk to Wolfplace about price and flow , he'll give you straight info etc ...it may be that these heads may not work as well when you start to getting into valve lift #'s like 680/700 ..yes I think Brodix will make 118cc chambers, 119cc is their off the shelf version... mine are 115cc

Congratulations, Bill graemlins/thumbsup.gif Not only does that engine look fantastic, it runs great as well! Very :cool:

Originally posted by CDN SS:
Thanks Mike , now to get the rest of the car done. Would be interesting to know of other results with these heads ....I know what Brodix says in their ads but would be nice to see another result. You will see another test shortly as I am redoing an LS7 that will end up at about 10.0 with a mild Isky hyd flat tappet cam & a set of RR heads on it if I can find the time to finish the thing :D

Orange, if you email me I can probably save you a dollar or two on the RaceRites ;)

Is it best to email or do you have a phone # on the website? Got to get my isky lifters also. The 119 chamber would be perfect, with the 781 I am at 10.25-1, I run on 90 octane with a botle of booster and have never heard a ping, that is the hightest octane i can get out here in the sticks.

How low could you load the motor?

Mike(wolfplace) How are you getting that much air through an oval port RPM? A 270cc runner that flows 370CFM is an awfully good design. Would it not work better with a manifold that will flow as well as the heads?

Originally posted by orange2:
Is it best to email or do you have a phone # on the website? Got to get my isky lifters also. The 119 chamber would be perfect, with the 781 I am at 10.25-1, I run on 90 octane with a botle of booster and have never heard a ping, that is the hightest octane i can get out here in the sticks. You can phone or email me either way,, i'm easy :D

Yes, the number & email are both on my site.

Originally posted by Mike Feudo:
Mike(wolfplace) How are you getting that much air through an oval port RPM? A 270cc runner that flows 370CFM is an awfully good design. Would it not work better with a manifold that will flow as well as the heads? They don't flow 370, hi 340's low 350' with the CNC chamber option.
Did I post 370 somewhere? graemlins/clonk.gif

Great numbers. The Brodix Race Right Ovals would be my no brainer choice to a low cube BBC, if the funds agreed. And clearly they worked with your combo. I have to say one of the most impressive parts of your dyno numbers are that it made 563 ft-lbs at a pretty low 4500 rpm. Thats a 1900 rpm split from peak horsepower, very good! Care to share the rest of your specs (from car to exhaust)?

must have been a typo, cause I thought i read 370 also,

Originally posted by orange2:
must have been a typo, cause I thought i read 370 also, =
Ok guys, now you got me confused as I hate posting misinformation,,
I went back & looked at the two posts & can't find the 370cfm,, where is it so I can fix it?? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by orange2:
how much are the brodix heads, sounds like it is time to sh tcan the 781's, especially since my bud with the 502 going into his 69 will probably be at the 550hp mark with the new cam he is putin in and the accel dfi system he is going to put on it. I would think those 270 cc intakes and the 370cfm flow would work real well with my 680/700 lift lunati cam. What size chamber are those heads, please say around 118. Here it is Mike. Another member posted it. Your not losing your mind just yet, I hope. LOL

Very impressive Dyno numbers ang good looking motor graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by CDN SS:
.... 94 Octane pump gas " Mohawk Premium Plus" for the Canadians on here.
94 octane Canadian, what does that convert to in US gas, about 87 octane? :D :D
J/K... Nice numbers for 439 CI. Almost 600 HP. Heck, those are nice numbers for any BBC!
Now get to a track and let me know how the Tremec likes that power.

What type of head work was done on the 781's?.

Jim

Wow Bill, Very very nice
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by JLerum:
What type of head work was done on the 781's?.

Jim Good point ..... 2.19 / 1.88 valves and the basic bowl blend some port matching ....nothing serious

Originally posted by blumont:
Wow Bill, Very very nice
graemlins/thumbsup.gif The God's were with me Gerry ....one thing the air was awesome here yesterday intake air temp never went above 68* that sure didn't hurt the numbers

We backed up the best pull right away and got withinn 1hp but both those runs air temp to carb was 62*

Good numbers for that 427!

I agree the Brodix RR ovals are an excellent alternative to the factory iron heads.

I did call tech and they told me the flow numbers posted of 340 cfm intake were on a 4.500" bore flow fixture...so on a 454 based 4.250", 4.280", 4.310" bore, the flow numbers will obviously drop some.

Mike, did you ever get ahold of anyone at Brodix to verify if that info on the 4.500" bore fixture was accurate as I know you were told they were flowed on a 4.250" fixture???

Originally posted by -SS454-:
Great numbers. The Brodix Race Right Ovals would be my no brainer choice to a low cube BBC, if the funds agreed. And clearly they worked with your combo. I have to say one of the most impressive parts of your dyno numbers are that it made 563 ft-lbs at a pretty low 4500 rpm. Thats a 1900 rpm split from peak horsepower, very good! Care to share the rest of your specs (from car to exhaust)? I agree the combo seems to have worked and now that I look over more of the data I see the air was awesome here yesterday ...that sure didn't hurt the numbers

The car is still under construction ...actually i owned and raced this car back in the late sixties found 2 years ago complete and all numbers still matching started out doing a pure resto than realized I wanted to build a 427 like i always wished i could afford back then ... numbers 396/ muncie in storage for now

Block 73 454 2 bolt 4.310 bore
Perf Machining and Balancing by reputable circle track engine builder, lots of attention paid to ring fit and hone finish
...block was sonic tested and selected for good lifter bore centers. Crankshaft crossdrilled chanfered and massaged
ARP Main studs
GM6223 Nitrided std crank
Truck rods with ARP wavelok bolts
SRP Forged pistons 29cc dome 10.3cr
Melling Std oil pump cleaned up casting and anti cavitation slot.
Canton 8 qt Kick out pan with bolt on pickup ...... filled to 6 qts with filter
Cloyes hex-a-just roller chain, torrinton bearing and thrust button woth Cloyes 2 pc Alum cover.
Powerbond 7" SFI balancer GM L72 cast crank pulley
Stewart STAGE 3 water pump ...Jones WP Pulley, Factory Thermal clutch fan

Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap Port Matched to heads

Holley 950HP 79/81 6.5 pv's

Ultradyne Solid Roller 285/295 251/260 @ .050 630 lift 110lsa installed 104icl

Isky Red Zone lifters
Harlan Sharp Roller Rockers , Howards Stud Girdle with B&B 1" valve cover spacers
GMPP Cast valve covers and moros bolt on combo breather oil fill

Block , Valve Covers powdercoated Chevy orange then powdercoated clear ..intake powdercoated clear ...seems Ok after dyno lots of gas spilled on intake during jet changes

Manley pushrods

Brodix RR BB-O 115cc CNC chambers bot complete assembled with springs
Builder cleaned up and minor porting, 5 angle valve job
Zero decked with attention paid to optimun Quench number ... Cometic head gaskets

Dave Ray MSD conversion in stock small body distributer with curve and vacuum can to suit combo
Stahl Headers built to engine specs ...template of exhaust port sent to Stahl with cyl head spec ...2" primaries, removable 18" 3 1/4"OD collectors ..... btw tried Flowmaster merge 2 x 3 1/2" collectors .... lost torque in mid range
Carter 172 mechanical fuel pump AN 10 fuel line tank to pump Aeromative fuel filter at tank

Tremec 600 McLeod SFI flywheel Mcleod 12" clutch
Original GM " Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner and Heater Delete conversion "

That's about it, body just back on frame CDN built Malibu SS Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

Susp. QA1 coil overs in front with stock control arms .rear HRP anti roll bar and upper adj. control arms HRP extra length lower control arms ,stock rear coils.... QA1 adj. rear shocks ....Bill , thrashing to get it ready for CB05

Excellant numbers! Congratulations! Look forward to seeing you out and about this summer! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

one thing i would like to ad is the racerites liked more jetting at the track than my 215's did.
the 80/80 setting i used to use went all the way up to 84/85 and the mph kept going up as i went up 2 at a time ,then the clutch started slipping so the day was done, also my car picked up 5 mph going from closed exaust to open. 3" 2 chamber flowmasters with turndowns at the axle. brodix claimed the cnc option really wakes up the exaust side.hard to beleive those small ports flow so well , but i must say at all rpm levels even on the street ,my car is much more powerful with the racerites than it was with the fully ported 215's.and it ran really well with the 215's

Originally posted by 10secBu:
Good numbers for that 427!

I agree the Brodix RR ovals are an excellent alternative to the factory iron heads.

I did call tech and they told me the flow numbers posted of 340 cfm intake were on a 4.500" bore flow fixture...so on a 454 based 4.250", 4.280", 4.310" bore, the flow numbers will obviously drop some.

Mike, did you ever get ahold of anyone at Brodix to verify if that info on the 4.500" bore fixture was accurate as I know you were told they were flowed on a 4.250" fixture??? Todd,
Sorry, I completely forgot. I will try to remember to ask next time I talk to them.

Bill, just curious and this may sound like an odd question, but what are your top and second rings gapped at?

Curious?? Odd? Devil's ( or God's) in the details man!

Bill I just had to 'spout off' again and share what a HUGE case of pen**s envy you've caused me.

You at least owe me a beer you "glorious bastid" ( said with respect and admiration ! )

smile.gif

Now go RULE some 502s man!

I really like those headers. I cant wait to hear how she performs when u get it on the road/track, especially with that TK0600.

christ I typed it wrong, sorry to confuse everybody. is 340 instead of 370, sometimes fingers type faster than brain functions.

I just got a new Brodix Catalog. The RR-0 is really pretty good for a direct replacement head. The RR-0 with the CNC chamber option shows 344 @ .700 lift on the intake (not much gain above .600). The exhaust picks up clear up to .700 lift (236 CFM). I think Brodix flows the exhaust without a pipe so those numbers will look lower than they really are, probably by as much as 20 cfm. Really good small runner heads.

Harold ... does it fit then that these heads pbly won't work well with cam with lift much higher than .630 ,
Mr68 .... good feedback on your BB-O experience vs ported 215's

Epistuff .... ring end gap i can't recall but can find out and will let you know

Gene ... beers will be on me at CAN AM ...if this car not there then you better come and pick up this motor cause someone should use it, we need to keep the 427 ledgend alive , right?

SS454 .these headers are very nice in fit and quality .... pass side #6 goes over frame rail so will have to cut inner fender ....resto guys will kill me !!

Iam really feeling the pressure to get this thing together and to the track ......now the big question can an old racer still manage to figure out how to hook the car up AND shift it fast .... trust me I will have fun trying .just need to find the time to work on it

Originally posted by CDN SS:
Talk to Wolfplace about price and flow , he'll give you straight info etc ...it may be that these heads may not work as well when you start to getting into valve lift #'s like 680/700 ..yes I think Brodix will make 118cc chambers, 119cc is their off the shelf version... mine are 115cc I've got worked 781's with .712 gross intake lift, and they work well. You can get probably no more than 320 cfm out of a set if you know what you're doing. Pay someone to do it, and just get a set that will flow right out of the sand casting and forget about it. Trust me on this, unless you want to be the owner of a set of $2800 U.S. #781's. I know a set for sale.... ;)

Originally posted by CDN SS:

Gene ... beers will be on me at CAN AM ...if this car not there then you better come and pick up this motor cause someone should use it, we need to keep the 427 legend alive , right?

CORRECT,and SPOT ON! You've done a dandy job towards that end my good man! Don't track expectations get you just yet. Attsa heluuva rat on a stick my brother, get used to it. I practice pounding that 1-2 shift, and you'll need launch practice.

After the 60', as long as you can stab 'em fast and hard, the 427 will do it all for you!

Like to get some racing in at CanAm. Firday night 1/8 mi. Trouble is, don't tell Don, if that happens,I'll be lining Old Red up ALL NIGHT LONG until I bust something or run solid 7s.

WHEELS UP!


(Oh, btw,I queried the machinist with note pad in hand about all the clearances in the motor. While it was fresh in mind. I thought they might have given me a sheet, but at least they're all written down.)

my 781's flow right at 305-310 according to my flow sheets, how much hp are those brodix heads going to be worth? Seems to me I would keep my sharp throttle response in the middle and still have a stronger top end, not sure I want to part with around 2grand, but that feeling may change if my bud with the 502 cleans my clock in a couple months. I also am only running what is supposed to be an 830 holley and a victor jr, would going to a 1050 help out as well?

Originally posted by TJC:
How low could you load the motor? I believe they can go as low as 3500 but mine was done at 3900 rpm

when can we see the results on the 468? thanx mike

Epistuff .... ring end gap ..... JE rings top .017 , secound .019 HTH


Just got off the phone with my engine builder he looked over the dyno sheets I faxed him .... he commented 39* 79/81's a safe tune up ( rich) thats why we needed 39* to burn the fuel pbly would have been a better tune up at 36* and leaner shooting for 39/40 BSFC's ??? FWIW

Originally posted by ratuned:
when can we see the results on the 468? thanx mike Hopefully in a about 3 or 4 weeks but I just sold my dyno & will be a bit busy installing a new SF902 along with trying to get about 8 circle track deals done so,,,, it might be a bit
longer :(
What I need is a few more projects around here :rolleyes:

Hey, if you fly me up there I'll sweep the floors or something. :D

You can pay me in the form of high performance parts. graemlins/waving.gif

Originally posted by orange2:
my 781's flow right at 305-310 according to my flow sheets, how much hp are those brodix heads going to be worth? Seems to me I would keep my sharp throttle response in the middle and still have a stronger top end, not sure I want to part with around 2grand, but that feeling may change if my bud with the 502 cleans my clock in a couple months. I also am only running what is supposed to be an 830 holley and a victor jr, would going to a 1050 help out as well? If you use this formula it is reasonably close estimate of the capability of the heads.
This is assuming everything else is working near optimum.
HP=.257* air flow at 28" * cylinders.
It's really closer in a 350 inch engine but it's within reason.
It comes out to a tick over 2HP/cfm @ 28" but again, this is with everything right.
You will come closer if you figure out how you are doing now & use that as a multiplier.
In other words,,,
you are makin 550hp & your heads flowed 300cfm.
That's 1.8hp / cfm so going to 350 cfm again assuming you don't do it with sewer pipes should be close to 630. It will probably be less but even half of this is a pretty respectable improvement & if you optimize everything after the change it should be pretty close to the higher number ;)

Originally posted by Slowpoke70:
Hey, if you fly me up there I'll sweep the floors or something. :D

You can pay me in the form of high performance parts. graemlins/waving.gif You bringin a sleepin bag & tent :D

by my quarter mile i am closer to the 2hp/cfm, so I could potentional gain 80 hp but more than likely 40-60? Wow, that is interesting, never heard of a formula like that. That is an attention getter. Got some thinking to do.

Orange2 You are running a very good MPH for your ET. Have you tried anything to lower your ET? with that kind of MPH you should be into the 10s.

Bill,
Thanks for the ring gap info.

Jim

Mike, I have posted before about this, I have never ran the car, that is the best timeslip i got from the old owner. He had never been to the track before, did 8 runs, on street tires it went 12.6 at 118, then with tslicks it dropped to 11.5 range with a best of the 11.27 at 123 but had a couple runs that were over 124 with the best just under 126. With that said, I have a marked off a quarter out in the country and by the tach and my gps it will still run 118 on the street tires that spin for a long ways, most of the way thru second anyway. O, another thing, it had a dart intake and a 1050 instead of the victor jr and 830 it has on it now. So I suppose its possible it won't run that number with out the bigger carb, but the guy I bought it from said it seemed to make very little difference. This summer I intend to find out. I am a couple hrs from a quarter but less than an hr from an 1/8 th mile track. I am still debateing about the race rite brodix head and a bigger carb, but I would like to run it the way it is now so I have a baseline of my own. The guy who built it said he was leaving a 5000 rpm and pulling the front a couple inches so it hooks pretty good, that was with 29 inch slicks, so I supposed with a better driver or some fine tuning it may run a 10 sec number this summer.

CDN SS, what rear gears are you going to be running?

Spec's as per my sig ...... the original 3.73's are still in the 12 bolt ......

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Slowpoke70:
Hey, if you fly me up there I'll sweep the floors or something. :D

You can pay me in the form of high performance parts. graemlins/waving.gif You bringin a sleepin bag & tent :D </font>[/QUOTE]I was hoping to join the wolfpack. LOL.

HP=.257 x 312 cfm intake = 80.184 hp. x 8 clyinders= 641 hp. My engine dyno'd at 634 hp at 7200 rpm with bent and bending pushrods. Huge harmonics. But, the formula is pretty damn close.

Originally posted by Slowpoke70:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wolfplace:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Slowpoke70:
Hey, if you fly me up there I'll sweep the floors or something. :D

You can pay me in the form of high performance parts. graemlins/waving.gif You bringin a sleepin bag & tent :D </font>[/QUOTE]I was hoping to join the wolfpack. LOL. </font>[/QUOTE]Hey,,, that works. It will help cut down on all the damn chicken we gotta buy just to get through the yard plus the "babies" been wantin' a new "plaything" :D

We might have to rename you "stumpy" though :rolleyes:

I know I don't have 640 hp, but given a 3500lb car weight and my mph, puts itat about 520 to the ground with a 4 speed. Not sure of the driveline loss in a 4 gear, would 10 percent catch it? I am going to wait and see how my friends 502 runs before I change anything, if I see tailites the race rite heads are going on and so is a 1050 carb.

Originally posted by orange2:
I know I don't have 640 hp, but given a 3500lb car weight and my mph, puts itat about 520 to the ground with a 4 speed. Not sure of the driveline loss in a 4 gear, would 10 percent catch it? I am going to wait and see how my friends 502 runs before I change anything, if I see tailites the race rite heads are going on and so is a 1050 carb. =
Actually, you are closer to 520 at the flywheel not the ground ;)
2+HP /cfm is extremely efficient & you don't normally see this on most street setups.
Just curious but what are you basing your HP & your 2HP/cfm on?
Reason I ask is if you are using a lot of the online calculators they are wrong. They are using a formula that calculates flywheel HP & calling it rear wheel HP.
Assuming 3500lbs at 124 MPH you would need about 550 flywheel HP.

Yes I was just using a timeslip and some online caculator that was posted on here. Ahh, sounds reasonable, wondered how accurate they are. Doesn't really matter, but I don't think this engine was ever built to be a strret motor, not with a solid roller and 700 lift. Your just trying to get me to buy the race rites so I can really say I have 600hp, aren;t you!! Seriously, this motor was built by an outfit in omaha neb. and the heads were done by iselin racing&gt; I am amazed by it, doesn't use any oil, has 35lbs of oil pressure at idle and 70 at 3500. Starts with just a push of a button, idles better since I turned down the fuel pressue to 7lbs. I get excited talking about this damn thing, I have had lots of toys but this thing takes the cake. I know it will beat my v-rod in a quarter, the zx12, well that is another story.