Well the time has come and I will be building my first engine. This is the forum where we will discuss my combos, I look forward to hearing input from all of you.

George and others have convinced me to build a BBC.

So far a pretty standard 454 build up, more to come soon.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what is in the works now.

454 block 60 over

Scat cast standard stroke crank

781 heads with larger valves and port work
Compression should be roughly 10.5:1

GM "truck" thumb rods w/ arp bolts

Pistons are KB .25" domed
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=116

Cam is undecided, want a fairly stout lope, but needs to be streetable and reliable without putting major strain on the valvetrain.

Carb is undecided, probably about 850 cfm

Intake is undecided, looking for a good deal on a dual plane

:thumbsup:

Apparently you'll Need to update your sig too ;)

:thumbsup:

Apparently you'll Need to update your sig too ;)

LOL, good point, thanks for reminding me. :hurray:

454 .060, 2 bolt.
.250 pop-ups on thumb rods/arp rod bolts. Looking for 10.25-1 final static compression.
Scat crank or alternate.
781 or 049 heads pocket ported and chamber adjusted for compression to be named. roller rockers mandatory.
Edelbrock Performer RPM (standard or air gap), Weiand stealth, or Weiand Action-plus manifold. These are my three choices and would use any of the three.
The 60204 Lunati Voodoo is all around kick butt for a brutal street bruiser. If a bit more lope is required use the 60205 but the RPM range is higher than you may wish. The 60204 lopes, not like my 69, but a nice throaty lope and will run your vacuum brakes. Advance the cam 4 degrees and the dynamic compression will come up quite a bit and the throttle response will be even a bit better yet.
Hooker 2255 comp headers, 2" prim with 3 1/2 collectors

look's really similar to another 468 I know.

454 .60 over
cast crank
truck rods with ARP bolt's
rotating mass balanced
KB hyper domes = about 10.5:1 compression
781 heads stock valve size
Crane Powermax 286, matched valvetrain
cam (http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1976&Engine_Size=396-454%20C.I.&partNumber=134241&partType=camshaft) specs
Edelbrock performer
Holley Street Avenger 770 jetted 74/84 with the black spring
Mallory unilite, 8.8 wires
Flowtech 1 3/4's headers
TH400 TransGo shift kit (drilled big) B&M 2400 holeshot
12 bolt 3:73 eaton posi

Gents,

Looks like the kid done mde up his mind!:hurray:
Maybe a 350 1970 Elky/th350 vs 350 68 Elky with TKO 5-spd grudge race before the engine re built and swapped in.:boxing:

Part-throttle downshift from 2nd to first after a low-speed 90-deg corner, there is some power now boys and all it took was major gear swap!!!!

Something sane like a 60203 Voodo, roller rockers not really required. Something 'big' like the 60204 VOODOO and roller rockers would be good idea. The 60205 VOODOO rollers would be a requirement. 60205 is stupid-big BTW. Think this is valve-train trouble waiting to happen. Really think the 60205 is bracket/street intimidation, not street.

Good intake choices Darryl. Brett, $120 in that ad for a Perf RPM is "OK".
I prefer to see wht I buy vs mail-order. Hate surprises. I've used Edelbrock products new and used since 1977. I'd run 750 cfm 3310 w/upgrades for street duty and have an 850DP for week-ends

look's really similar to another 468 I know.

454 .60 over
cast crank
truck rods with ARP bolt's
rotating mass balanced
KB hyper domes = about 10.5:1 compression
781 heads stock valve size
Crane Powermax 286, matched valvetrain
cam (http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1976&Engine_Size=396-454%20C.I.&partNumber=134241&partType=camshaft) specs
Edelbrock performer
Holley Street Avenger 770 jetted 74/84 with the black spring
Mallory unilite, 8.8 wires
Flowtech 1 3/4's headers
TH400 TransGo shift kit (drilled big) B&M 2400 holeshot
12 bolt 3:73 eaton posi

Dave, that baby has to fly!

That is identical(less headers, we used 2255 hookers) to the build I helped my brother do on his 73 SS 454 chevelle, even the cam. It rips.

The only difference between his SS and my Laguna motor is the cam (286 Powermax VS my 60204 Voodoo) and the intake (Edelbrock performer VS my Weiand Action-Plus). His 73 has 3.42's vs Lagunas 3.73's and both have 2200 stalls.

Dave. your's has to be a easy 12 second ride. Sweet.

OK, looks like Brett hs sent messge to Doug re the 60-over pistons w/HD rods and ARPs. Scat crank is $240, Eagle Crank is $276. I've no preference here.
Am sure Darryl has a good used one too. Your votes:
A: Scat
B: Eagle
C: Good stock crank

Think we're talking budget, longevity, moderate usage. Brett kept saying low RPM. I don't want to make him something he really can't drive due to bad manners or excessive/excessive bad manners and very poor mpg. Typical bad manners and poor mpg are just things ya must live with. I do not see Brett heading N of 6000. Some of the larger Berg cam choices do seem bit excessive.
Brett, counting on you to tell us more of what you are looking for.

BTW, RatVette even with ext manifolds sounds much like Darryl's 69 Chevelle. Sounds like it will blow off the mufflers......

Dave, that baby has to fly!

That is identical(less headers, we used 2255 hookers) to the build I helped my brother do on his 73 SS 454 chevelle, even the cam. It rips.

The only difference between his SS and my Laguna motor is the cam (286 Powermax VS my 60204 Voodoo) and the intake (Edelbrock performer VS my Weiand Action-Plus). His 73 has 3.42's vs Lagunas 3.73's and both have 2200 stalls.

Dave. your's has to be a easy 12 second ride. Sweet.

Those are the heads you sold me,:D Thank's for the compliments.:thumbsup:

I'm not going to say a word except I agree with what ever Darryl says...:yes:

I'm not going to say a word except I agree with what ever Darryl says...:yes:

Oic, taking the easy way out hmm? I guess you will always be right that way.

Ok so I picked up the 60 over pistons and rods. They looks to be in pretty good shape. Have the ussual carbon build up but no chips or scores. The rods are the thumb ones that Darryl raves about. Has arp bolts as well. He left the rings on the pistons, and they looks pretty good, but with the cost of rings there is no reason not to put new ones on.

I will start compiling a list of new parts on my summit wish list and will be having the fellas look it over.

The plan for this engine is to be a street torque monster. I want to have the ability to drive it daily, be reasonable on gas, but also have more torque than I know what to do with it. I will not be going over 6k rpm. It HAS to have 450hp and 500 ft lbs minimum, these are just benchmark requirements I have set.

The plan for this engine is to be a street torque monster. I want to have the ability to drive it daily, be reasonable on gas, but also have more torque than I know what to do with it. I will not be going over 6k rpm. It HAS to have 450hp and 500 ft lbs minimum, these are just benchmark requirements I have set.

No problem to do that. I'm really happy with my set-up, very streetable, yet, mash the pedal, and it changes it's temperment very quickly.

Brett,

Good goin getting the rods and pistons from Doug Z.
I'm looking at one of those rods and the lower dome H426P slugs I got from Darryl. A fit less oomph than what you got but I plan to use the closed chamber heads I have. This will make a sweet combo for me.

I'm more than anxious to do some testing with my new gears.....
Nope, this is not pick on a BBC powered car power here, she just runs so much better......I'm gonna find that kid I bought the Elky from b4 he graduates and heads off to school. I'm gonna scare the crap outa him with little "firepower demonstration."

Remember Brett has a TKO 5 speed. Not an auto with a 2200 stall.

My vote is firm on the 60204 voodoo or comparable quality cam from another manufacturer.

Want to play with horsepower numbers? Here's a cool link at TCI that has some HP calculators for 1/4 stuff.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/Calculators.asp#0

Darryl,

I am fully aware that Brett has a TKO 5-spd.
I'm also very confident that Youth and Enthusiasm can be overcome by old age and treachery! I'm also getting hints that there is more power on tap than I figured, unleashed the beast. First gear ends very quickly.....and I was on it 1/2 throttle...think Dennis down the street has an old Sun tach....

Ref Rat Build-up
I'd probably not go over 60203 in a "street Elky":boring: :boring:
I just think Brett would want a bit better manners and more low-end.

I'm gonna try to link with Mark GOTAGO today. Show him the slugs and rods then take him around the block.....

GHK

Let us know asap on how the Elky runs out when you mash it. You have been more patient than I would have but it sounds like you're ready to cave to the HP gods and see if you can shove the peddle through the floor boards. LOL!

FRYNTYR,

Yes, patient, always conservative, always plotting!
Round trip to Arlington and initial test run, I totaled 220 miles plus of which 110 would be after the gear swap. Thinking I'll have 200 mi by FRI for sure.
First gear seems terribly quick now! Elky is in 3rd before crossing major intersections.

I was looking up the F-M H426P slugs last PM, just a Google Search.
One hit took me to the Team Chevelle archives. Guess what was building?
that's right, 454 w the same H426P slugs, the budget 228/238 cam, Perf RPM, and a Holley 3310. Think the thread was from 1999...... dude wrote the engine had more torque than you could ever need! Looked some more, data says .100" dome, was thinking all along .133". So, my 101cc heads and .1000 dome, not 10.58:1 but closer to 9.8:1--10:1CR, actually more suitable for pump gas premium compared to RatVette where some Booster is still a good idea.....

Brett if those piston rods are used, REPLACE THE ARP BOLTS. Used rod bolts are not the way to go.

Welcome to the dark side :)

454 .060, 2 bolt.
.250 pop-ups on thumb rods/arp rod bolts. Looking for 10.25-1 final static compression.
Scat crank or alternate.
781 or 049 heads pocket ported and chamber adjusted for compression to be named. roller rockers mandatory.
Edelbrock Performer RPM (standard or air gap), Weiand stealth, or Weiand Action-plus manifold. These are my three choices and would use any of the three.
The 60204 Lunati Voodoo is all around kick butt for a brutal street bruiser. If a bit more lope is required use the 60205 but the RPM range is higher than you may wish. The 60204 lopes, not like my 69, but a nice throaty lope and will run your vacuum brakes. Advance the cam 4 degrees and the dynamic compression will come up quite a bit and the throttle response will be even a bit better yet.
Hooker 2255 comp headers, 2" prim with 3 1/2 collectors

Darryl-I also have a buddy who says, I should, and it is beinicial for some big blocks to be advanced 4* for more snap. Do you on yours and what is the negative. Also, do you lock your timing out?

I'm curious about the timing also, I'm curently running a Unilite mechanical distributor. I've got it set up with 22* initial timing @ 700 RPM, with 16* mechanical advance, all in at 2200 RPM=38* total. Seem's to be pretty good, alway's thought about trying to get up around 42, see what it's like.

Man with all this brain power, there's got to be a monster out there waiting to be built.

With his 5 speed, couldn't you go a tad more radical? As long as the cruise RPM was in the lower range of the powerband, would a little more cam work on the street? I'm asking cause I want to put an OD in mine and build a streetable 496. I shouldn't have broached the subject with Darryl, between that and these threads, I'm gettin' the fever.

George, will try and get down to see you tomorrow.

With the 5-spd, better 1st gear ratio, in theory, yes, can go more radical.
Thing is, that monster .68 OD drops the cruise RPM bunches....down so low big duration cams don't work well....lugging at 65 or cruising nicely at 80. This is ok for Montana, Spokane, Coalville, and Pullman but asking for trouble in W WA.

With 5-spd you can run less cam, have better manners,,,let the 5-spd gearing do the work.

Earlier I gave a bad number for CR with 101cc heads and the H426P slugs.
I said something too low. Believe.133" dome 10.58:1, a .100" dome would give me around 10.4:1......perfect.

4* advanced takes some off the top end power off the overly large cams we run to beef the low end/midrange power. Some cams are ground with this so tread lightly. Other side of the coin is that with yet more bottom-end grunt, traction games become serious.

Darryl-I also have a buddy who says, I should, and it is beinicial for some big blocks to be advanced 4* for more snap. Do you on yours and what is the negative. Also, do you lock your timing out?


It's standard practice for me to put mine in 4 degrees advanced. Must be careful with smaller cams with high compression because the dynamic compression increases when you advance them and you can have to much cylinder pressure for the gas you run.

On locking out the distributor, on very high duration cams. All my race motors are locked out. Street motors start out at 15 initial and then go up from there. I never go beyond 38 total and usually keep it closer to 36. The chance of messing up and having to much timing isn't worth the possible damage if going to much. The only true way to know if 40+ is better is to put it on a dyno. I'm to cheap so I'll stay with a safe 36-38 total.

my rule of thumb on initial:
12-14 on anything below 230 @ .050
14-16 if in the 230-239 @ .050
16-22 240-250 @ .050
250+ degrees @ .050 usually locked.

Thumpy solid rollers, lock-em.

Darryl-I also have a buddy who says, I should, and it is beinicial for some big blocks to be advanced 4* for more snap. Do you on yours and what is the negative. Also, do you lock your timing out?

SO here's an example of borderline cam timing that could be bad if not tuned in correctly.

The 427 in my chevelle is not that radical. The cam is a 280 isky megacam that is on 108 LC so that is why the 235 @ .050 lopes so much but it is increased with the fact I advanced the cam 4 degrees. The L2268 pistons with ported 781's and a zero decked block gets me close to 11-1. My carb jetting is very important to make this run with the very high cylinder pressures I'm running. I cannot run this motor on the lean side, it just won't run worth a crap. Oh and this is timed at 16 initial with a total of 36.

Normally this combo should have a cranking compression of around 200-210 lbs if it wasn't advanced but with the cam advanced the dynamic comression is increased and I get 235-250 lbs which is stupid compression on pump gas. My cranking compression would drop back into the 200-220 range if I ran a cam with more duration like A 248-254 duration cam @ .050 (still advanced 4 degrees)would be much more pump gas friendly in my motor than what I have and jetting wouldn't be so critical.

So to answer your "snap" question, yes, with that extra cylinder pressure advancing the cam makes you can't help but get more snap.

I'm curious about the timing also, I'm curently running a Unilite mechanical distributor. I've got it set up with 22* initial timing @ 700 RPM, with 16* mechanical advance, all in at 2200 RPM=38* total. Seem's to be pretty good, alway's thought about trying to get up around 42, see what it's like.

Dave, 22 initial won't hurt at all. In fact it may be more responsive, period, if your compresion and gas combo agrees. Kinda depends on how big your cam is but If it were me I'd stay away from playing with more total (the 42 idea).

My rule of thumb on vacuum advance: plug it, don't use it, it will just cause more grief than good on a thumpy motor. Vacuum advance is intended for economy purposes and to run with low initial timing settings. If you want economy, buy a Honda. If you want power and ease of tuning, leave the vacuum advance plugged and tune your initial and total advance to match your combo.

It's standard practice for me to put mine in 4 degrees advanced. Must be careful with smaller cams with high compression because the dynamic compression increases when you advance them and you can have to much cylinder pressure for the gas you run.

On locking out the distributor, on very high duration cams. All my race motors are locked out. Street motors start out at 15 initial and then go up from there. I never go beyond 38 total and usually keep it closer to 36. The chance of messing up and having to much timing isn't worth the possible damage if going to much. The only true way to know if 40+ is better is to put it on a dyno. I'm to cheap so I'll stay with a safe 36-38 total.

my rule of thumb on initial:
12-14 on anything below 230 @ .050
14-16 if in the 230-239 @ .050
16-22 240-250 @ .050
250+ degrees @ .050 usually locked.

Thumpy solid rollers, lock-em.

Dude, I'm freakin' out...Way too many numbers...:eek: So, No lock out on timing with my cam. Full roller 232 @.050, .578 lift, 110 LS
My total is set on 36*, not sure of initial. I am running KB Hypers @ 10.2 compression with 101cc heads.(702's)I would assume it WOULD be safe to advance 4* but don't lock my timing. Here's one question for you. My mechanic (hot rod buddy) says the reason I have this spot between 2,200- 3,000 rpms where the motor doesn't hold steady (it wants to slow down or go faster) has to do with the timing advance curve doing something funny. Does that make any sense?

Dude, I'm freakin' out...Way too many numbers...:eek: So, No lock out on timing with my cam. Full roller 232 @.050, .578 lift, 110 LS
My total is set on 36*, not sure of initial. I am running KB Hypers @ 10.2 compression with 101cc heads.(702's)I would assume it WOULD be safe to advance 4* but don't lock my timing. Here's one question for you. My mechanic (hot rod buddy) says the reason I have this spot between 2,200- 3,000 rpms where the motor doesn't hold steady (it wants to slow down or go faster) has to do with the timing advance curve doing something funny. Does that make any sense?

It may be the curve where the mechanical advance is very active or maybe not active enough. I would run very light springs in yours (actually in all my built stuff) so the mechanical advance is pretty much all the way in if not already. Normally a slow curve is more for mild motors. A quick advance curve usually makes a built motor very happy. SO, although you have a small Solid roller, I would still be running in the 20 initial range and build 16 or so into the mechanical withit at full advance before 3000.

Had a buddy come over a few months back with his ride that didn't run as strong as it should have. He had a MSD in his and when checking his timing it didn't seem that much advance was happening when reving up. When we cranked up the initial to see how the engine responded it came alive but we all know unless the distributor is locked there is likely 20 degrees of mechanical waiting to come in. So pulled the cap and it came with very heavy springs, out of the box. There was no way the advance was going to come in until way high in the RPM range. If we set it at 16 degrees it idled well but when mashing it it was kinda doggy compared what it should have been like on paper. It was only gaining about 4 degrees by 3000 rpms. Not enough! We pulled out the stiff stock MSD springs and added some light ones and Waahhllaaa, the motor came alive. Mechanical advance came in quick and full by 3000 and woke up.

The only tried and true way to know excactly what curve a person's motor likes is putting it on a dyno and testing different curves for each particular motor combo, but like I said before, I'm to cheap to do that so it's just information I have found to work over the years. It is my rule of thumb but I'm sure there are exceptions.

Thanks Darryl. I will pull the cap and chech the springs.
BTW it is a hydrolic roller and the guy who owned it locked the timing at 36* for street and race.

If it's locked you can leave it but it's a small enough roller that it would be a little more street friendly if it had some mechnanical advance in it.

If it's locked you can leave it but it's a small enough roller that it would be a little more street friendly if it had some mechnanical advance in it.

I was just stating that's how he ran it. I have my advance hooked up...for now...:cool:

oh,,ok. my bad. Wheww!!

Frank,

Darryl is right once again. Most aftermarket distributors come with heavy springs. Guess this is so they can hit you up again for a few more bucks to buy a distributor tuning kit. RatVette uses one Med and one light spring; 10.75:1 CR, .542/.542" 235/235 deg dur .050" 111* sep. I've tried about every combo of springs and wts on the seat of the pants dyno. I have a brass bushing on the adv rod to limit the advance. I probably have too much advance so will be looking for a way to close the adv slot a bit without removing the distributor and brazing the slot.

Frank, what kinda distributor You running?

Frank, what kinda distributor You running?

Something with a ugly tan cap that doesn't match my motor...:clonk:

Well, that don't help, I got all the spring's and a chart as to what they set the advance to......but it's all for a Mallory.

Well like I said I bought the pistons and rods. I just bought some valve covers off of ebay. I am watching an auction for an intake on Ebay right now, it ends in the morning. Supposed to go look at brand new headers for $150, $450 new from summit. Was going to look at them tonight but he has not called yet. They apparently have 2 pea sized dents, but with 2" size tubes it shouldn't matter. Also supposed to go look at a 454 4 bolt block 049 with oval port heads and a steel crank tomorrow.

I have been putting everything I can think of as needing on my wishlist on Summit, after its all said and done, I am almost positive I will be below $3k. Overall I would say I am doing pretty well with the prices for what should be a screamin' BBC.

What kind of carb should I start looking for? I'm thinking in the 850 cfm range, also thinking holley, but what do I know? :confused: It needs to be easy to tune and reliable, I dont need a super power house making for the strip.

The Street Avenger's are a great carb, easy to tune, and good to go outta the box.

I'm not positive but Ben might have a brand new Holley he'd part with.
You'd have to ask him to be sure.
What's it got Ben, 50 miles on it?

I'm not positive but Ben might have a brand new Holley he'd part with.
You'd have to ask him to be sure.
What's it got Ben, 50 miles on it?

That would be perfect, I dont need new. Why did he take it off after 50 miles?

I think it's a SA to boot. 870 I think.

Brett,

I saw the ad for the 454-4 blt. steel crank, 049s....
What about cleaning out Darryl's garage a bit?
He's got more engine stuff OUTSIDE then I ever had INSIDE!

Hmmmm, under $3000? Nice:hurray:
Is there a completion date in mind? I'm busy through the end of AUG.
Maybe you should talk nice to Berg Racing for starter engine parts and you assemble under his mentorship?
Parts gathering is fun. The real money is made in pre-assembly, ensuring the clearances are perfect.....then balance....then assembly.

You've been watching the thread......
Got a few cam choices?:cool:

Brett,

I saw the ad for the 454-4 blt. steel crank, 049s....
What about cleaning out Darryl's garage a bit?
He's got more engine stuff OUTSIDE then I ever had INSIDE!

Hmmmm, under $3000? Nice:hurray:
Is there a completion date in mind? I'm busy through the end of AUG.
Maybe you should talk nice to Berg Racing for starter engine parts and you assemble under his mentorship?
Parts gathering is fun. The real money is made in pre-assembly, ensuring the clearances are perfect.....then balance....then assembly.

You've been watching the thread......
Got a few cam choices?:cool:

I need a mentor, that is true. Figured I have bothered Darryl enough. I know a guy a little past Gig Harbor, but that is pretty far away. Berg racing, not sure I know who that is.

As for cam I was thinking the Voodoo 60204 that Darryl recommended. I have done some reading on it and others seem to have liked it.

Brett,

Darryl Berg = Berg Racing
The Voooooodooooooooooooooooo 60204 is a big stick
I'll send some further thoughts in the next day or so....
Sounds like you've really gone to the dark side. Just a few weeks ago you were talking warmed-over 406 SBC and 5500 rpm. Now you're talking big-boy country.

"Berg Racing"
Didnt realize that was Darryl's shop. Berg Racing is my favorite shop, never a part that isnt in stock! :D

781's or 049's, which heads are better? What are the differences?

I would use either one but I believe the flow numbers give a very slight edge to the 049's but barely. With both having a bowl blend, it should be even. The 049's seem to have a slightly cleaner bowl area (less needed to clean up with a bowl blend), but again, very slight.

Brett,
I understand Ligenfelter liked the 049 a bit more than the 781s but this was for classes running mostly stock heads. Pretty even with either casting with basic porting as Darryl described in his garage. Had I been less concerned about consuming some of those 24 of my little friends I brought, I'd have thought to grab a 781 and a 049 and look at them closely.

I'm really thinking you should purchase goodies from Berg Racing to assist in making the Welfare Nova go faster.

I'm not positive but Ben might have a brand new Holley he'd part with.
You'd have to ask him to be sure.
What's it got Ben, 50 miles on it?

Nah nah nah....
I have that Sean Murphy built Holly 750 VS that I was fighting off idle probs last fall, took it off and put on a Street Avenger 770 which worked out of the box. I still want to figure out how to dial it in the other carb, because it most definitely produced way more power than the street avenger, just had terrible idle & off idle manners.

I already have a home lined up for the street avenger when i do get the other one worked out though... So no extra carbs from ben... Sorry!

AHSOM,

Darryl says yes to "SS hood for dialing-in your carb."
This is gonna wake your engine up.

You DON'T know that I'm also providing certain incentives that he does not do THAT good of a job dialing you in so that you smoke me during the Crate HO mega-buck vs Charity Lo-Buck 454 shoot-out.

AHSOM,

Darryl says yes to "SS hood for dialing-in your carb."
This is gonna wake your engine up.

You DON'T know that I'm also providing certain incentives that he does not do THAT good of a job dialing you in so that you smoke me during the Crate HO mega-buck vs Charity Lo-Buck 454 shoot-out.

Um... Lol.
I'll have a solid 425hp at the flywheel (after Darryls tuning expertice, of course) with 3.31 gears, Stock stall. Skinny 15x8 street tires.

You are still building your motor- and from all the stuff i've read you are building a 450-475hp motor built to Rev high, and you have 3.42 gears, and I would only assume that you'll slap a 2500rpm stall converter in when you put the new motor in (I should have when i did mine).... I don't see any reason in the world why you're car shouldn't flatten mine in a drag race...

See thats why I had mine painted- If it loses the 1/4 mile, it'll definitely win the Bikini contest ;)

Plus my rims are shinier :D

Yeah, but He's gotta make it hook to Ben. I'm up in the area of power he's trying to get to, and until some suspension work was done, I couldn't put it down to save my life. If He's gotta chug it outta the hole, till He can stomp on it, You got a chance.

Dave and AHSOM,

Despite your predictions, I'm not really trying to make a 'super' category engine.
I'm keeping the cam lift to .540" (same as Ben's ext lobe), my new slugs have .100" domes not .133" or .250".

My intention is NOT to rev "high" but my build will allow me to make power a bit longer than Ben's crate engine. I figure my cam will run out of ooompfffff around 5700-5800 rpm. Fine, my goal is strong AVERAGE numbers, decent manners, something that sounds good, something I can drive and WANT to drive, plus visit strange people in the Seattle Area or south without having a fuel tanker following me. If my intent was simply to smoke Ben, would not be a challenge....I'd just build it to smoke Ben, or Frank, or, or, or.....not the design here and certainly not the budget.(Sorry about that Frank, using you as an example here).

I'm actually betting on my increased compression ratio, slightly larger duration, and oval port configuration to produce more torque in the 2500-4500 rpm range. Lots more torque. I personally feel GMPP really screwed the pooch on these 454s with the big rect port head but the similiar Aluminum-Head version rocks....better head w/right-sized runners and smaller chambers for a bit more compression. At this point in time I'm NOT planning a high-stall converter as I do want some MPG. Geeeee, not rocket science here to figure out traction will be a major issue. Maybe tune OUT some torque to give the Elky a chance, a chance to hook.
Recall, the goal here is to build a low-buck engine for $2000 or so that will out perform Ben's crate engine yet fulfill cruising and general street-performance requirements ....just like the engine I offered to build Ben. Granted, he's been getting BBC windshield time for months now etc and I'm gathering parts. I'm also drawing rather ineffective small arms fire from Brett.

Sure, I could run a larger VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODOOOOOOOO cam but if I really wanna go fast. If I just beat Ben by a fender, mission accomplished.

Ineffective!? :pout: :boxing:

Yes Brett, Ineffective. Nuisance fire....something you'd get from unskilled marksmen! Doing some fine-tuning on my Elky's 350 this evening. She now idles at 18" of vacuum. Changing gears has got me making minor adjustments to the tune to get things working together better.

Ben,

figured on 10.58:1 with .133" dome and 101 cc heads. With the .100" dome, 10.3--10.4:1. So, you'll only be down about 2 pts of compression.

71metbu Dave,

A little power added while locking the brakes....got wheel hop with the 350 tonight. I know my rear springs are toast/shot/tired. Darryl recommends gradual improvements, starting with rt side airbag up inside the (future new) rear coils. We'll go from there. I've been reading up on making the A-Body hook-up and would not wanna spill the beans and give Ben any ideas. Low-buck first. Nope, not gonna feather it out of the hole....gonna finesse it with a mix of Applied Physics, expereience, and good ol' trial and error.

Pop for the new springs right offa the bat, are you lowered at all? Pinion angle really made a difference on mine, but I am lowered all the way around.

Dave,

You got that right, new springs. A full can of soda in the back of my Elky causes the rear to sag..... Wonder if there is any advantage to SBC vs BBC springs for the rear....I know the factory BBC Fronts will have the Elky WAY OFF the ground. Thinking maybe new SBC springs for the front....

Lowering the Elky? Dunno. Tired of my headers hitting every speed bump. More research to do.

I plan to have my lower control arm level to the ground, rt side airbag, pinion angle slightly down. Either adjustable uppers or elongating the mounting holes til I get the right angle then welding washers to reinforce at the proper position. Some no-hop bars could be tried in there too at some point. Again, not going crazy. I know from RatVette (16 years) that traction is very important.

Loader1,
Older dude down the street had a 66 SS 396/375 4-spd car bought right after LIONS DRAGSTRIP in SoCal closed down. Thought you'd like to know. He's had the car since early 1973.... Lotta traction games with this filed away in the memory.

Edelbrock adjustable uppers or something like it, infinite control. Don't run your pinion angle down, match it to the angle of Your trans to save the life of Your u-joints. Only recomended to drop pinion angle on track cars, not street cars.

Well I got an awesome deal on some headers last night. They are Hooker Super Comps that cost $475 from summit. These were brand new, they were prepped and painted with high temp silver to look like they were ceramic coated. They actually came out looking pretty good. There is one small dent the size of a pea pod, but with 2" size pipes I think I am ok. I only paid $150 and they have never been used. Guys had a sweet tubbed out camaro projet he was trying to fit them into. :cool:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HOK%2D2217HKR&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Hopefully going to look at a block, heads, and steel crank at lunch today. :hurray:

Brett, I'm excited for you!

It's kinda like Christmas everyday at your house. :thumbsup:

Keep us posted!

Greg

Brett,

I just noticed some 21 y/o youngster MightyMouse61 is also moving up to BBC Country. Currently has a 70 Chevelle with 383. Looking for BBC crate motor ideas. Really interesting thing is that he's right here somewhere on Ft Lewis! He's got about 10 posts on the website. I PM'd him to join us on the NW thread.

Well I got an awesome deal on some headers last night. They are Hooker Super Comps...

Sounds like a sweet deal! That high temp paint can last a long time, and is easy to cleanup and fix later on if it gets grungy again.

Be prepare for some fun "making" them fit. I took off a set of Hooker Super Comps when i bought my car (the 2" primaries were too big for my plans)...

You will have to be creative with your sparkplug wrenches, and clearing your steering collumn.

Good headers though! Gotta love those thick flanges! Invest a few bucks in the Flowmaster Smooth Transition reducers. They are about 12" long and graduate down to the smaller size of the exhaust. Supposed to help scavanging a lot. They were part of the Racer1320 "BSE combo"...

Sounds like it is coming together!

Well I made what seems like an "OK" deal today. I bought a block, heads, and a crank. My lack of inexperience showed in making the purchase because of the heads.

It was a craigs list ad that said:

"454 4blt main block .30 over steel crank 20/20,049 oval port heads. $500.00 package deal."

So I drove about 45 minutes down there in traffic and bought it. Everything looks pretty good. Problem is they werent 049 heads. I figured it was still a good deal with the block and the crank, and he said the heads were "similar" to the 049's and the "good ones". Yea they are similar alright... :rolleyes:

What I got:

Block:
454
289 casting number block
4 bolt main
I believe the 289 is the high nickel block

Crank:
3963521 casting number
454 forged, cross drilled, 5140 steel

Heads:
236 casting number (heres where I errored)
they are oval port
open 120cc chambers
225/116cc ports

So I paid $475, overall not a bad deal I suppose if everything checks out ok. I am disapointed though about the heads. Looking back I probably shouldnt have taken the heads, or gone lower in price. It was a package deal though. So what do you guys think? Did I do ok or fail miserably? I guess these things are just lessons of the trade. Without mistakes how do we learn?

236 = Peanut Ports = toss em. Go see Daryl for some heads.

236 = Peanut Ports = toss em. Go see Daryl for some heads.

Yea, I didnt realize there were so few oval port castings. If I had done slightly more research I wouldve known... For some reason I was more concerned with the block, should have been equally concerned with all of it, heads are important.

289 block is good, if it's O.K.
steel crank is good, if it's O.K.
You did allright, take the block and crank to a machine shop to be checked out. Do You know what the bore is on it?

4-bolt to, that's a bonus.:thumbsup:

289 block is good, if it's O.K.
steel crank is good, if it's O.K.
You did allright, take the block and crank to a machine shop to be checked out. Do You know what the bore is on it?


He said 30 over, his machinist said it would clean up easy at 60 over. It better. He sorta has a business. He is working on 3 cars in this tiny shop, with 3 guys. He has a 67 chevelle he is trying to sell. He had a 68 camaro all stripped and some drag pickup truck. Also had a jet boat. He is a younger guy. As to the 4 bolt, I dont really need that, but I guess it doesnt hurt.

Assuming the block and crank are ok, how much do they normally go for? I have seen the blocks going for up to $400 by themselves I think.

468, Coming Up!:hurray: :yes:

The beauty of it is you can list the heads right back on craigslist and recoup part of your purchase price.

Like you said, live and learn.

I bought an Edelbrock Torker on ebay and when it arrived it obviously had seen better days, I decided it was out of the rpm range I wanted for my combo and sold it on craigslist for a $20 profit. Turned around and got a nice deal on a NIB Holley Street Dominator dual plane.

I bought the heads George is running off of ebay and wasn't sure they were what I wanted to run and traded him for a set he was running to the benefit of both of us.

Things will work out, and you'll know better next time.

Greg

Also when I pulled in at home, mail man came over. Didnt seem to know much but apparently owns 9 cars. A bunch of old pickups, he gave me his number and wants me to call him to sell him my 350. He liked the sound of it. It only has about 4 to 5 thousand miles on it and runs like a champ, just not enough oomph for me. What do you think is reasonable to ask for it. I will sell it complete from carb to oil pan minus the distributor, power steering pump, and alternator. It has a 600 cfm holley, intake, performance cam, and aluminum water pump.

The beauty of it is you can list the heads right back on craigslist and recoup part of your purchase price.

Like you said, live and learn.

I bought an Edelbrock Torker on ebay and when it arrived it obviously had seen better days, I decided it was out of the rpm range I wanted for my combo and sold it on craigslist for a $20 profit. Turned around and got a nice deal on a NIB Holley Street Dominator dual plane.

I bought the heads George is running off of ebay and wasn't sure they were what I wanted to run and traded him for a set he was running to the benefit of both of us.

Things will work out, and you'll know better next time.

Greg

True, but does anyone really want these heads? What should I ask for them when I put them on Craigslist?

50-75 bucks. They are a good head if your building a stump puller. I had a set on my 454 when I got it, I just gave mine to my Machinist.

The 4-bolt block and the steel crank make it a fair decent deal still. We'll have to try and get you up my way to drop the crank and block off so i can check. I can polish the crank so it's ready to drop in. I need pistons and rods so I can check the pinfit, check the big end, and the skirt size on the pistons so we can bore it up to size.

As for the heads??? I'd put them back on craig's for $75 or offer.

If you end up using my buddy to do your machine work, ;) , please don't try to give him the 236's like Dave did. I don't think he'd take them.

Darryl, you sure you buddy doesn't want them? I thought I heard him asking for me to look for a good set of 236 castings. I'll just drop them off at his shop over the weekend. Probably throw them under the tarp in back, it was looking a little sparse under there. ;)

Ok so I am keeping an excel spreadsheet of prices, to make all you guys drool at how cheap its come together. Here is a short list of what I have so far:

454 block--------------------------$500
454 steel crank

truck rods--------------------------$175
pistons

Billet valve colvers------------------$80

Hooker super comps-----------------$150

Gotta get an intake, heads, and a carb. The rest I will probably buy new. Now that I have the block and rotating assembly together, a couple machine passes and some bearings and we can start assembling! :hurray:

Darryl, are Ya sure you don't want mine too? I think mine are still sitting outside Tim's shop ...............around back, under a tarp.:D

Brett,


IF the crank is usable w/o a grind and the block does clean-up at 60-over, you are "steel" in the 'good buy' range.
I hear those 236 heads would make for a nice street 396 with some bowl work. Yes, stump-puller 454 for motorhome! List them on C-L for $90, take $75.
Good that you are keeping prices.
You could buy 049s or 781s from some guy in Arlington, buy valves, springs, etc, etc....$100 for heads, $250 for parts, then whatever labor cost OR you could buy some 1969 oval port, 112cc open chamber heads off racer Terry Reed out this way. These heads are off his 10-sec 427 RatNova, 600+ dyno horse. He's going 496 and Dart heads so these are excess. The heads come ported/polished believe by PED, mondo springs set for .700-something roller cam, h-d pushrods, lash-caps, 2.19/1.88" valves. $550.
Thing is, you really could not enlarge these chambers as they are done and the heads are decked.

Brett,


IF the crank is usable w/o a grind and the block does clean-up at 60-over, you are "steel" in the 'good buy' range.
I hear those 236 heads would make for a nice street 396 with some bowl work. Yes, stump-puller 454 for motorhome! List them on C-L for $90, take $75.
Good that you are keeping prices.
You could buy 049s or 781s from some guy in Arlington, buy valves, springs, etc, etc....$100 for heads, $250 for parts, then whatever labor cost OR you could buy some 1969 oval port, 112cc open chamber heads off racer Terry Reed out this way. These heads are off his 10-sec 427 RatNova, 600+ dyno horse. He's going 496 and Dart heads so these are excess. The heads come ported/polished believe by PED, mondo springs set for .700-something roller cam, h-d pushrods, lash-caps, 2.19/1.88" valves. $550.
Thing is, you really could not enlarge these chambers as they are done and the heads are decked.


Hmm, have to give it some though. I could mill the pistons right?

Brett,

Re Heads from Terry Reed
Talk to FRYNTYR about the piston-milling process. Most slugs can be milled. Naturally you'll have to balance all the toys..... This could work for you if the cost is minimal...

Stopped in at the house for a second....
Heads I recollect are 3933148, 1969 396 2v head featuring a 112cc chamber, the first open chamber oval port head. Cost to buy heads, buy valves, springs, retainers, etc, etc plus porting and V_J close to a grand....
I have Terry's phone number when you have $$$$ if the piston-milling is somewhere you wanna go.

Here ya go George.
springs (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-1972-Chevy-Chevelle-El-Camino-Rear-Coil-Springs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33582QQihZ007QQ itemZ170113919882QQrdZ1)

Brett,

Re Heads from Terry Reed
Talk to FRYNTYR about the piston-milling process. Most slugs can be milled. Naturally you'll have to balance all the toys..... This could work for you if the cost is minimal...

Stopped in at the house for a second....
Heads I recollect are 3933148, 1969 396 2v head featuring a 112cc chamber, the first open chamber oval port head. Cost to buy heads, buy valves, springs, retainers, etc, etc plus porting and V_J close to a grand....
I have Terry's phone number when you have $$$$ if the piston-milling is somewhere you wanna go.

If Terry still has those heads,,,,,that would be a great budget buy that would save even more $$$. Not as good as 049's/781's in stock form but with the large amount of porting said to be done they should be better then either and ready to bolt on from what George has said. Worth looking into. A quick check by a local guy I know to ensure seals and guides are in great shape would be good ensurance.

If Terry still has those heads,,,,,that would be a great budget buy that would save even more $$$. Not as good as 049's/781's in stock form but with the large amount of porting said to be done they should be better then either and ready to bolt on from what George has said. Worth looking into. A quick check by a local guy I know to ensure seals and guides are in great shape would be good ensurance.

Roger, George seems to think it is a deal I should jump on. I will talk to Terry and get some more info. Will be giving updates soon.

Brett,

If I'd not bought the posi and parts kit AND all the brake work, I'd have bought those heads from Terry long ago. Just too little budget with remodel and daughter to college for all my gearhead ambitions. So, talk to Terry about the heads and goodies that come with them. Have Darryl's knowledgeable friend give them the inspection/once-over.

Dave P.,

thanks for the auction on the springs. I gotta rebuild the car slush fund...
Noted someone elses thread that their ride handled like a hovercraft, HA!

Darryl and Brett
I've found a few more cams for $105 w/lifters. Speed-Pro/Federal-Mogul
CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.
Mr 4 Speed says with converter/std trans, 3.73s and chassis work, high 11s easy. Requires good heads.....just like what I'm telling Brett to get....
This would be more cam than I need.....

What kind of carb do you guys think I should get? I have been looking at Holley 850's. What about an oilpan?

What kind of carb do you guys think I should get? I have been looking at Holley 850's. What about an oilpan?

Does that oilpan have mechanical or vacuum secondaries...:clonk:

A Quickfuel, it's prettier...;)

Brett,

If I'd not bought the posi and parts kit AND all the brake work, I'd have bought those heads from Terry long ago. Just too little budget with remodel and daughter to college for all my gearhead ambitions. So, talk to Terry about the heads and goodies that come with them. Have Darryl's knowledgeable friend give them the inspection/once-over.

Dave P.,

thanks for the auction on the springs. I gotta rebuild the car slush fund...
Noted someone elses thread that their ride handled like a hovercraft, HA!

Darryl and Brett
I've found a few more cams for $105 w/lifters. Speed-Pro/Federal-Mogul
CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.
Mr 4 Speed says with converter/std trans, 3.73s and chassis work, high 11s easy. Requires good heads.....just like what I'm telling Brett to get....
This would be more cam than I need.....

George,,,,,,I like those numbers. And with 112 LSA it won't be excessively lopey. Put it in 4 degrees advanced and it'd be just right. Those are real close numbers to the 60204 Voodoo except on 112 instead of 110. The 60204 voodoo would be a bit choppier. It isn't bad though and will run trhe power brakes. Launches hard with a 2200 stall (3000+ WOULD REALLY RIP). I agree with Mr.4-speed: Tuned in properly and it'd be capable of high 11's.

850 DP. A annular discharge would be even more responsive on the street but those are harder to come by used. There was a sweet 850 HP series DP with annular discharge boosters at Portland tis year,,, $250,,, I kick myself for not getting it when I first saw it. Went back 15 minutes later and it was gone.

I'd go with stock depth pan but maybe step up and get one with the small kickouts on both sides for more oil. A deep pan will end up getting smashed on the bottom. I run a stock passenger pan myself (not the nova though) and don't recall ever starving for oil on any of my cars.

George,,,,,,I like those numbers. And with 112 LSA it won't be excessively lopey. Put it in 4 degrees advanced and it'd be just right. Those are real close numbers to the 60204 Voodoo except on 112 instead of 110. The 60204 voodoo would be a bit choppier. It isn't bad though and will run trhe power brakes. Launches hard with a 2200 stall (3000+ WOULD REALLY RIP). I agree with Mr.4-speed: Tuned in properly and it'd be capable of high 11's.

CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.

Darryl,
Was thinking more about young Brett on this cam...has the TKO, the compression, etc...possibly the heads from Terry. Brett has no Pwr brakes. The 112 LSA should give him the better manners than the 110 ground Voodoooooooodoooo.

I knew your radar would activate when I started talking a cam this big!

For my low-buck 063 closed chamber heads.....dunno if they could support all that much cam....I'm hearing they lay down at .500-.520 even after porting. Old wife's tale? Think so. Assuming pocket clean-up and some attn smoothing the short side radius....would that be enough head to support the 1140P cam? Would I need to move up to 2.19/1.88? Mr 4-Speed says to just run a big cam, keep the valve size stock.....easier than doing all the valve rework and chamber clearancing for not much gain. Supposing I decide to run a thumper cam like this.....I'd have to come up there, see your friend ref: clearancing retainer to valve seal....I'm guaranteed to .550" dunno what extra clearance I have....alway check stuff beforehand. While the heads are apart, would be a good time to pocket port.....
I also hear big gains from just going to 1.88" ext valves on stockish heads...
What is your opinion on this, good or waste of time......

Ref Carbs for the kid.....
The real answer is two carbs Brett. Sure, an 850DP for the weekends/track day. Tune that carb for your ext cut-outs. This is to say IF, I say IF you are gonna buzz this engine. If you keep it to 5700 rpm, a 750 will work.

With 4-bolt and steel crank, HD rods....6000-6300rpm safely with the Hyper Es. I'd just not feel safe above that w/o forged pistons. Get/borrow/or otherwise acquire a good ol 3310 Holley. From there add a rear metering block kit, jet the darn thing 74/84, run a fairly stiff secondary spring......good power and fair mpg. Tune this thing for cut-outs closed. Most these "big" cams we talk about....reading the PERF section, lotsa guys shift them before hitting 6000 rpm.....making so much grunt by then, no need to tax the engine....W/O a lotta RPM, no need for forged pistons.....this is to say if you keep an eye on the ign adv.

A single carb that works well with the exhaust open will not be jetted right when the ext is closed. Double Pumpers are fine for the track and Saturday night, but suck the fuel badly.

All you guys who actually had a weekend, I left work at lunchtime today (Tues). Fixin to go play with the cars. Gonna tweak and tune RatVette and take her out for this enjoyable weather today. GOTAGO, enjoy all your paperwork....

kettbo

Darryl, what do you think about George's advice? I am starting to see myself hit 6000 rpm, but not much further north. Even though I am NOT going to drive this every day, it isnt going to be just a track car. I would like the car to be as reliable and userfriendly as if I were going to drive it every day. I want the option to drive every day, even though I probably wont. I want a good reliable easy tuning carb, that can also give the engine the air it needs to make some real power.

There are quite a few 850 DP carbs on ebay engine within the next couple days. No need to rush but was thinking of bidding on one of them. Looking forward to hearing everyones advice. Remember I am on a budget and will probably have to wait until next payday before I buy a carb.

Just bought some alternator and power steering pump brackets for a BBC with a long water pump. I am surprised at the cost of little stamped brackets, but think I got a good deal.

Ok fellas, spoke to Terry Reed about his heads. Here is the info.

Oval port Heads, he cant remember but believes 831 casting # (doesnt really matter)
112 or 113 cc open chamber
2.19"/1.88" dynagear valves
Ported and blended by Mike Gibson who owns a speed shop (cant remember the name)
lunati springs, only used 1 season
moroso lash caps
comp cam moly pushrods

He was making 565 ftlbs, 603 hp with the heads. He broke a rod, piston came up and hit an intake valve. Said it still seats fine, may possibly be bent, but he is almost positive it is not. So he said you MIGHT have to replace that intake valve. The rest is perfect and ready to go.

He is asking $500.

What do you think? Seems pretty reasonable for a complete race ready head. Would I be able to use these springs, or would I go down to a spring that has less extreme spring pressures?

Darryl, what do you think about George's advice? I am starting to see myself hit 6000 rpm, but not much further north. Even though I am NOT going to drive this every day, it isnt going to be just a track car. I would like the car to be as reliable and userfriendly as if I were going to drive it every day. I want the option to drive every day, even though I probably wont. I want a good reliable easy tuning carb, that can also give the engine the air it needs to make some real power.

There are quite a few 850 DP carbs on ebay engine within the next couple days. No need to rush but was thinking of bidding on one of them. Looking forward to hearing everyones advice. Remember I am on a budget and will probably have to wait until next payday before I buy a carb.

The DP only drinks the fuel when you mash it. Which by the way is hard to keep from doing when you have all that fun on tap. My DP does well in my chevelle, even with the 4.56's. You can watch the gas gage go down when you nail it though. Stay off the throttle and it runs fine for everyday use.

Ok fellas, spoke to Terry Reed about his heads. Here is the info.

Oval port Heads, he cant remember but believes 831 casting # (doesnt really matter)
112 or 113 cc open chamber
2.19"/1.88" dynagear valves
Ported and blended by Mike Gibson who owns a speed shop (cant remember the name)
lunati springs, only used 1 season
moroso lash caps
comp cam moly pushrods

He was making 565 ftlbs, 603 hp with the heads. He broke a rod, piston came up and hit an intake valve. Said it still seats fine, may possibly be bent, but he is almost positive it is not. So he said you MIGHT have to replace that intake valve. The rest is perfect and ready to go.

He is asking $500.

What do you think? Seems pretty reasonable for a complete race ready head. Would I be able to use these springs, or would I go down to a spring that has less extreme spring pressures?

Springs are set up for solid roller so those would have to go. Cheaper to go to less spring than if you were going to go to solid rollers. The valve is as easy to check as chucking up the valve in somebody's valve grinder to see if it's good. ;)
Ask George what he had Terry down to for price? I would say they need to be cheaper with possible repair and need for less spring. Of course keep the springs for future possible upgrade.

CS 1140P 318/328* adv 234/244* @.050" .553/.578" on 112 LSA.

Darryl,
Was thinking more about young Brett on this cam...has the TKO, the compression, etc...possibly the heads from Terry. Brett has no Pwr brakes. The 112 LSA should give him the better manners than the 110 ground Voodoooooooodoooo.

I knew your radar would activate when I started talking a cam this big!

For my low-buck 063 closed chamber heads.....dunno if they could support all that much cam....I'm hearing they lay down at .500-.520 even after porting. Old wife's tale? Think so. Assuming pocket clean-up and some attn smoothing the short side radius....would that be enough head to support the 1140P cam? Would I need to move up to 2.19/1.88? Mr 4-Speed says to just run a big cam, keep the valve size stock.....easier than doing all the valve rework and chamber clearancing for not much gain. Supposing I decide to run a thumper cam like this.....I'd have to come up there, see your friend ref: clearancing retainer to valve seal....I'm guaranteed to .550" dunno what extra clearance I have....alway check stuff beforehand. While the heads are apart, would be a good time to pocket port.....
I also hear big gains from just going to 1.88" ext valves on stockish heads...
What is your opinion on this, good or waste of time......


George, I would leave the stock valve size and do the pocket port. This will leave the valves unshrouded and the bowl work will make them flow very decent. Remember, the valves in the heads on my 69 chevelle are still 2.06-1.72! Also, my first 10.90 motor in my chevelle ran 702 castings with only a bowl blend and stock valve size. Anyone say they lay down at .500-.520 is wrong. Let's see, if you had a sbc with 260CC runners and 2.06 valves, could you see it laying down? No way, Those 063's with stock valve size and bowl work will make some great power. The closed chamber heads repsond very well to the bowl work because the short side radius isn't very good (George and Brett, remember comparing the 781's to the CC 702's)

Anyways, it's just my opinion but I've proved what I can make work for me. So it's whatever you think will work fro you. I think the above will be more than sufficient. Oh ya, your 063's can lose some CC's to so the compression can be bumped up. Stop by the guy I know's shop and he can shave 4-5 CC's off. :I

How low on price should I try to go for the heads? I would imagine he has more money than this into them, but that is probably because they were professionally ported.

Brett,

I recall Terry saying the heads were done at PED....noted shop down this way.
He was gonna go $550 for me so $500 for you w/pushrods does sound a bit better. He needs the cash to put his 496 together. We started talking about these heads last fall hence the lower price...
Basic clean-up on heads, repair a few bolt holes, 3-angle v-j, new 2.19/1.88", throat, chamber relieve, springs, retainers etc....up around $650. Throw in a lotta porting, a deck pass to get the chambers smaller.....looking at $900 to $1000. Am sure that pal of Darryl's has some more typical valve springs instead of those roller-capable units that went .700" lift.... I recall Terry ran a stick that big...

Some issue with the RatVette cruising today. Darryl, see PM I sent you. Nice pics btw.

OK, will have to remove the valves on the #063s, will not up the size, do the pocket port.... Gotta locate some cyl head tools....sure miss my neighbor's shop! Gotta decide on a cam while my cash reserves rebuild.

ghk

George, I hope the RatVette is ok.

RatVette issue:

Two weeks ago, 1st gear, jumped on RatVette a bit, she hit 4000 than kaWhump, sounded like a backfire in the intake or carb. Timing was at 10 deg initial yesterday so I bumped her to 16 deg before....took her out yesterday, same thing. Runs well afterward.
No Ping
No surge
no rattle
no sputter
no laying-down
I've had this Edelbrock Thunder AVS 800 on the Vette for 2 years, no issue.
She has the Pertronics Elec Ign Conversion, Matching Pertronics coil
I suspect I may have an ign adv issue....
I've located my timing tape, just gotta clean the dampener thoroughly.

RatVette issue:

Two weeks ago, 1st gear, jumped on RatVette a bit, she hit 4000 than kaWhump, sounded like a backfire in the intake or carb. Timing was at 10 deg initial yesterday so I bumped her to 16 deg before....took her out yesterday, same thing. Runs well afterward.
No Ping
No surge
no rattle
no sputter
no laying-down
I've had this Edelbrock Thunder AVS 800 on the Vette for 2 years, no issue.
She has the Pertronics Elec Ign Conversion, Matching Pertronics coil
I suspect I may have an ign adv issue....
I've located my timing tape, just gotta clean the dampener thoroughly.

First,Double check the weights make sure they are moving freely. If the mechanical advance isn't coming in you could get a misfire.
Second, lean backfire. could be caused by a number if things.
Third, cam getting a flat lobe.
Fourth, bad plug wire, spark plug, cap, rotor, ect. Any of these have a bad spot in them and can cause it to misfire on a cylinder. A cracked spark plug could even cause this. Of course as long as you're not running Champions, you should be ok. Drop a champion on a pillow and they crack.

First,Double check the weights make sure they are moving freely. If the mechanical advance isn't coming in you could get a misfire.
Second, lean backfire. could be caused by a number if things.
Third, cam getting a flat lobe.
Fourth, bad plug wire, spark plug, cap, rotor, ect. Any of these have a bad spot in them and can cause it to misfire on a cylinder. A cracked spark plug could even cause this. Of course as long as you're not running Champions, you should be ok. Drop a champion on a pillow and they crack.


FRYNTYR,
I had the cap off hmmmm 2-3 weeks ago, went from two light springs to a medium and a light, lubed everthing. Hmmm, maybe I'll set things back how they were...

Lean backfire? Gee, would have to be really lean for this....during set-up a few years back, had to richen primaries 2, secondaries 3. Doubtful but could be a contributor....slightly lean and too much ign....

Time to pull the plugs and work my way back upward into the ign system. I should only have 2000-3000 miles on the wires, plugs, cap, etc. That timing tape will also go back on and I'll run ign curve diagnostics.

The cam is what was in it back in the day. Possible it could be going south but not likely...will check this after all the ign gets verified.
Sure would hate to do a cam swap in the car.....RatVette is not very spacious under the hood. RatVette w/decent wt, gearing, and 4-spd could take a bigger bumpstick......

will advise...

UPDATE:

Just purchased a 850 DP carb. Still looking for an intake, but in no rush. Spent about a half hour last night polishing up my newly acquired valve covers. Boy are they perty, and BIG. Kinda getting me excited.

I have a summit list of about 50 items just to get an idea of what I am looking at here. I have absolutely everything on it I can think of. Looks like after machining and purchase of some heads I will be over $3k. I am nearly positive now though that everything will be under $3.5k. This is including all of the conversion parts needed to swap over to the BBC. I am factoring everything in all the way down to the airfilter and spark plugs.

Whats really depressing is looking at the GIANT spreadsheet I have of all the parts I have purchased for the Elky. After 2 years of non-stop upgrades, I can tell you that it really adds up. Again, everything is there down to nuts and bolts, minus fluids. Most of you would be shocked if you knew every penny you spent on your car. I have all the items I bought added up, included a description, source, and part number. I also have all the items added up from what I have sold off of the car. The positive + the negative makes for my total "investment". It is quite large, but the elky is almost how I like it. Too bad if I ever decided to sell it, I could never recoop my costs.

I could never recoop my costs.


Don't You love this hobby of Ours!:yes:

Don't You love this hobby of Ours!:yes:

I do, it was just easier when I was able to tell myself this was an investment and that if I wanted to sell it I could get it all back. If I had a chevelle and not an El Camino I would be close to regaining my expenses. However, Camino's just dont have the same value.

If worse comes to worst, I will just frame George for stealing it, claim my insurance, and buy a 67 chevelle. :cool:

Brett,

What about this?


Make him an offer and you'll have a nice new intake!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/336695373.html

Brett,

What about this?


Make him an offer and you'll have a nice new intake!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/336695373.html

Already spoke to him. Price is a little high for me, and he is really far away. I am waiting for a Weiand Stealth on Ebay. Darryl loves the Stealth, so I figured I would just go with that. Plus they dont run quite as expensive as the edelbrocks.

While I am doing all this conversion I am going to put new bushings in the upper and lower control arms. The ball joints felt pretty good to me so probably going to leave those alone. Any steering stuff you guys think I should replace?

Re steering stuff to replace:

How bout the loose nut behind the wheel?!:hurray:

.

Whats really depressing is looking at the GIANT spreadsheet I have of all the parts I have purchased for the Elky. After 2 years of non-stop upgrades, I can tell you that it really adds up.

You better grow out of keeping spreadsheets before you get married. After you're married awhile, the wife can tell you exactly what you've spent on your ride. If you don't have any evidence, you can look really innocent when you say "Honestly I don't know how much I've spent on the car but it couldn't be THAT much."

You better grow out of keeping spreadsheets before you get married. After you're married awhile, the wife can tell you exactly what you've spent on your ride. If you don't have any evidence, you can look really innocent when you say "Honestly I don't know how much I've spent on the car but it couldn't be THAT much."

WORD:yes:

Re steering stuff to replace:

How bout the loose nut behind the wheel?!:hurray:

Good one George! Gave me a chuckle. Probably been holding that one in for years though.

You better grow out of keeping spreadsheets before you get married. After you're married awhile, the wife can tell you exactly what you've spent on your ride. If you don't have any evidence, you can look really innocent when you say "Honestly I don't know how much I've spent on the car but it couldn't be THAT much."

WORD:yes:

You guys are full of great information, should be marital counselors. Maybe I should change the title of the thread.

And one final word of wisdom. My wifey is a software godess, uses her computer skills as an accountant for a major dialysis company......really hell when she audits my books! While inconvenient now, her fiscal responsibility over the years has allowed me a good lifestyle. She budgeted money over time for the RatVette project.... She also said, "Hey! That El Camino is for Sale!" All good for sure until she says, "Put gas in your car, get A-Z at the grocery store, and don't spend over $60 bucks!"

Somehow, I keep going over on the grocery purchases!!!! "How's that metering block kit end up in the grocery bag?" "Gee honey, Albertson's now has a High Perf aisle!"

Seems BEN is the next to succumb.......he's doing the right thing by fixing his ride NOW.....too late once the fangs come out! :yes: Brett, maybe you could get a gearhead girlfriend:hurray: instead of those Animal Husbandry majors out there in Pullman!!!!:boring:


So, what cam and HP/torque goals this week?

Still looking at the 60204 voodoo, reviews seem positive.

As to the GF, I sorta have one. She supports me, not a gearhead, but pretends to understand. She said I spend more time on my car, which is true. I'm up for a ride from either of them. :D As long as I dont tell her my car is better looking, I should be ok. ;)

I think I did good catching my gearhead wife. Very hard to find one nowadays

Brett, I really like that 60204. Laguna comp. is near what your's will be and pump gas works fine. Although I do think some good stuff would make her respond very nicely she does run hard on 93.

The block is decked on that motor, the heads are shaved a little, they are cut out for 2.19-1.88 and left a little higher in the combustion chamber which also reduces CC's and has L2465F forged 11-1's. With your manual trans, you'll be good with a slight opening of the chambers.

Darryl, I am getting pretty anxious to start getting this thing together. I think my list is pretty well done, ready to go over it with you regarding many issues.

The issues are:
is my source correct, is part correct, is part overkill or underkill, and am I missing anything?

Maybe we could plan for Saturday if you have some time. I could hand some parts over to you for inspection and we could discuss the additional items I need. Whatcha think?

Send me your spreadsheet......
I'd like to check this out

Hmm, lotta compression, 60204 stick, suppose Terry's heads...hd parts...Stealth intake, 850 Holley 2" headers. Looking at 500/500 here, quite a bit more aggressive than what I'm planning....

Not too much energy to give RatVette more than a quick look tonight. No obvious external things like loose connections. Will pop the plugs out tomorrow and check the distrib settings....

Send me your spreadsheet......
I'd like to check this out


So you wanna see my spreadsheet, huh? I'm a little ashamed of how much I have spent on it actually. Also if I send it to you I may get made fun of for spending too much on a certain part or something.... :( If your intentions are pure then I will send it to you.

Also, did you get my message on that tilt column I found? Not sure if you are looking to spend $150 or not, but it would be a drop in part I assume. When are we going to put in that grand cherokee box?

Brett,
Interested in the steering column, never got the details...send PM.
Just too soon on the heals of other parts....hope the seller is not motivated.
Ditto for Cherokee steering box
Need springs, possibly other parts, want a big front swaybar.......Rome not built in a day, my accountant is after me.....

Yes, thoughs are pure. I got ya into this mess. I will point out a few alternatives to save a few bucks....just send the engine stuff, don't wanna know how many jars of StaLube you used for self-abuse you billed to your Elky.

Brett,
Interested in the steering column, never got the details...send PM.
Just too soon on the heals of other parts....hope the seller is not motivated.
Ditto for Cherokee steering box
Need springs, possibly other parts, want a big front swaybar.......Rome not built in a day, my accountant is after me.....

Yes, thoughs are pure. I got ya into this mess. I will point out a few alternatives to save a few bucks....just send the engine stuff, don't wanna know how many jars of StaLube you used for self-abuse you billed to your Elky.

lol, PM sent. Obviously you werent listening... I dont put fluids in the spreadsheet! :sad:

I will post the engine spreadsheet for all costs up here when the engine is built. I assumed you wanted my spreadsheet for El Camino upgrades, not the summit wish list. Sorry for the confusion, I will send it to you.

George has sent me another possibility for a cam. I dont know who CS is but this cam has much more Adv. Duration. Here are the specs as from George. The Lunati 60204 also starts the rpm range at 2200, which is 800 lower than the CS cam. Most of the other specs are about the same. I want a cam that is also good quality, if I have to spend $80 more for it to last, I will. What do you guys think?

Consider this:
CS 1140P cam vs Lunati Voooodooooo
Chevy 396-502 cid, RPM Range 3000-6500, Adv Dur 318 intake/328 exhaust, Dur @.050 234 intake/244exhaust, Valve Lift 553 intake/578 exhaust, Lobe C/L 112.
Price:
$77.92,
lifters $1.67x16
save $80

Brett,

The advertized duration is different company to company....that is why everyone goes off the deg dur @ .050" lift....

The CS 1140P cam is by Federal-Mogul, Speed-Pro line. They are one of the largest makers of engine rebuild parts and kits....high volume/lower costs, less advertising/hype= lower cost

The low end of the RPM range is a bit higher than the Voodoo 60204 cam because the CS grind has the wider LSA at 112 vs 110 of the Voodoo grind. The 112 LSA gives you a smoother idle, better manners, better mpg, wider power band. 110 LSA gives you more bottom-end grunt, narrower power band....less piston to valve clearance.....
To bring in the power a little lower down, ADV the cam 4* as Darryl keeps mentioning.

Brett,

The advertized duration is different company to company....that is why everyone goes off the deg dur @ .050" lift....

The CS 1140P cam is by Federal-Mogul, Speed-Pro line. They are one of the largest makers of engine rebuild parts and kits....high volume/lower costs, less advertising/hype= lower cost

The low end of the RPM range is a bit higher than the Voodoo 60204 cam because the CS grind has the wider LSA at 112 vs 110 of the Voodoo grind. The 112 LSA gives you a smoother idle, better manners, better mpg, wider power band. 110 LSA gives you more bottom-end grunt, narrower power band....less piston to valve clearance.....
To bring in the power a little lower down, ADV the cam 4* as Darryl keeps mentioning.


Roger, good information.

Don't skimp on Your lifter's, get the Comp Cams 812's. Go ask any of the performance engine builders what they use.

Trust Me on this, just use the CC 812's and never look back.

Darryl,

Saw the pics of your sons and you with the babes. They all have great body's, fantastic legs. While after a couple beers they may look like super models, but couldnt they find anything better? I could've gathered much better out in Pullman, AKA "cow country". The blonde looks like shes done a little too much crack or botox, the brunette is cute, the redhead is about the best looking. I dont even like red heads, but she is genuinely pretty. Ah, who am I kidding? I would probably marry either of them, at least for a night. :yes:

I bet your proud of your sons eh!? Looks like the left son might be palming some booty! ;) :thumbsup: I like the display of the cougar hat, made me proud even. So what product was this for again? I noticed your wearing your summit shirt, will they blurr out the logo?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/Chevelle2.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/Chevelle1.jpg

Here is a picture after its been fixed. :D Ok I have to get back to work.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/untitled.jpg

You better go back to work kid and start gettin' the go faster parts put together. I went for a spin in George's Elky and the gear swap woke it right up. I think the old man still has a few tricks up his sleeves. Its gonna be a good race...........................

You better go back to work kid and start gettin' the go faster parts put together. I went for a spin in George's Elky and the gear swap woke it right up. I think the old man still has a few tricks up his sleeves. Its gonna be a good race...........................

SO,,,,,like anyone taking someone for a ride, how much rubber was used to seal the asphalt? I trust George abused it a bit? Thank god it hasn't blown up yet, I'll never here the end of it if the rear diff goes pow!

Brett, You'd trade me in a minute to get smoothered with tank tops. And I have no problem dolling them up with a few brewskies :beers:

My right tricep was so happy after that shot.

Brett, You'd trade me in a minute to get smoothered with tank tops. And I have no problem dolling them up with a few brewskies :beers:

My right tricep was so happy after that shot.

Darryl, trade you? Never :D

I do see your right tricep is nestled someplace nice... :hurray: Damn your a pimp.

[quote=Brettd85;1368112]Damn your a pimp.[/quot

Big Block Pimp:yes: Be selling da ponies on the streetcorner:D

Gents,

I was on N Fort Lewis doing my "Camp thing" when the Deputy Pgm Manager called me to the main office to help put out a big Corporate brushfire, short suspense. So, back to main post...right down the street from GOTAGO's office.
He dropped by not long after in his monster truck....had car polishing gear to loan me. Guess he had to buy this polishing gear, his truck is the size of a flipping Stryker combat vehicle! Waxing that bad boy would take a month of Sundays.
I played "show and tell" with one of the 40-over BBC pistons and HD con-rods. Think the machine oil on the piston from the pin-fitting process got him fired-up for a quick jaunt around post. Only had a few minutes and seems too many witnesses on the backroad I chose. Exhibition of speed is frowned upon on post just like elsewhere, can't go getting myself, a retired Sr NCO, and a Lieutenant Colonel (both whom should know better) in trouble. A little blast from 35 mph in drive, enough to drop her into second and briefly open the secondaries. Not really exciting for a BBC guy, but GOTAGO had been in the car previously with the "Bonneville" gearing.... Don't recall him screaming but he was heard to say something about.... Well, it went approximately like this,
"Brett had better take you at the tree or he'll never run you down."

With this in mind, there are many new small tire tracks on N Fort where some take-off techniques have been tested. I believe it launches hardest with just a chirp. Gonna hire one of my kids to play BUSTER COUCH (legendary "starter" for all the major NHRA events in the 70s and 80s), shine the light and start the stopwatch kinda thing. While I work all this out to a science, come track day Brett will be still be thinking:
1. Will I bog? or
2. will I spin the tires too much?.....and
3. Damn, George did do a good polish job on the tailgate of his Elky!!!! That's why I borrowed the buffing stuff from GOTAGO!:beers:

Sweet dreams Brett!:hurray:

Didya go down to So Tacom/Parkland/Fredrickson to see Terry about those ported big-valve heads? I can't believe you were whining about a 1hr 7 min drive to come check out the heads. Think about my 1hr 45 min drive to Arlington on the 20th, or GOTAGO's ride from Yelm, and especially LOADER1 from the forests near ABERDEEN. Now THAT's a drive to complain about.

No big burns yet Darryl....hope to get some pics or video of this event. Dunno if I'll be able to burn them and have a :D like FRANK's vid clip...but I'm sure I'll have enough tire smoke for favorable comment. I'm very very pleased with the gearswap. Very minor gear whine, gotta be listening.....just before the exhaust noise picks up. Know this is common in aftermarket gears and typically loud/annoying. The old gearset kinda clunked so this is fat-city. Darryl, thanks a bunch for the diff parts swap on the 20th. Your contributions to my delinquency are in the hall of fame category.:thumbsup:

Dont worry about the traction or bogging George. I have 275's on the rear and the lil' 350 only spins them if I try really hard. :( My take off's seem best with just a slight tire spin. All I do is floor it and drop at about 2-3k and she launches pretty well. Dont you think your taking this racing thing kinda seriously? If I beat you, you might commit suicide, or giveup the hobby all together. If I lose I will never hear the end of it.... :boring:

I headed over to Terry's house last night(ALL THE WAY DOWN IN SPANAWAY) and picked up the heads. Here is the info.

They are casting # 3933148....69-84...oval...OPEN...'69 396/265hp, 366T, 427T, 112cc chamber and are in good clean condition.

They have 2.19/1.88 Dynagear valves w/ lashcaps.

Bowls are blended. (I think it could use more clearance around the edge of the exhaust valve like Darryl was talking because it is pretty close)

Full port job, very nice work. Apparently when the exhaust side was done profesionally it picked up 65 hp on the dyno.

Moroso pushrods

ARP rocker studs

Gave me his old set of lunati springs which he just took off for insurance, but all are fine. Said he backs off the rockers every winter.

Has newer lunati springs, which Terry seemed to think would work with my cam. Here are the specs for them compared to the springs that Lunati reccomends for the 60204 voodoo. As you can see it is an addition 150 lbs/in increase in spring rate. Sounds a little to stout, but springs are pretty cheap...

This is what the 60204 uses: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=LUN-73815&N=700%200&Ntt=LUN~73367%20or%20LUN~73815&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=
Valve Springs, Single, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 337 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.100 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

This is what the heads have on: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=LUN-73367&N=700%200&Ntt=LUN~73367%20or%20LUN~73815&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=
Valve Springs, Dual, 1.550 in. Outside Diameter, 486 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

What do you guys think? New springs or not, this puts me way forward on parts and work to get this big block done. Now I guess I'm just waiting on Darryl's slow a$$ friend... :)

ttt ;) I need attention!

postwhore:yes:

Brett,

Glad ya got the BBC heads. I may talk trash but I'll never steer you wrong.:thumbsup:

Bet Terry is relieved to move onward with his 496project. :hurray:

I'll defer to Darryl on what springs to use......I do think what is there is rather aggressive for a street car/street cam.....he was running a .700" mech roller.
Darryl's pal should be able to swap on some proper :boring: springs for you.

Brett,

Glad ya got the BBC heads. I may talk trash but I'll never steer you wrong.:thumbsup:

Bet Terry is relieved to move onward with his 496project. :hurray:

I'll defer to Darryl on what springs to use......I do think what is there is rather aggressive for a street car/street cam.....he was running a .700" mech roller.
Darryl's pal should be able to swap on some proper :boring: springs for you.

Terry described his cam as not that much lift. Called it a "little" roller.

Question for you fellas. I have a 2" cowl hood. Would I be able to fit a 4" air cleaner on my big block? The intake might be kinda tall. I dont know if I will be running a carb spacer or not.

Do I talk too much?

Do I talk too much?

I know You type too much.:yes:

I know You type too much.:yes:

:pout:

I'm just excited about my big block, and want to have friends...

Do you wear a helmet at all times?:D

You should be fine with your cowl hood. I run a three inch filter without a cowl hood plus have the hood stiffening structure in the way. The lower aircleaner lid offset down/or above the carb will be the issue.

Also, the installed height pressure is important. The spring rate is to much for a flat tappet. It would wipe it out. If you set the installed spring pressure at 120 lbs the open pressure would be almost 400lbs. A touch to much. I'd be ok with 350 Lbs. I'm sure the closed pressure is closer to 200 lbs the way they are and over 500 open with Terry's set-up.

Thats what I thought, too much pressure would kill the cam.

Who's are these?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/roundyround/brett1.jpg

:eek: Oh man! Those do look pretty nice.... George, are those yours? :noway:

This is awesome, I am excited! :cool: :hurray: :disco:

THANKS DARRYL! :bow:

I'll post George's block once Its decked.....see how pretty is is.

Darryl,

I do not see the pics. I figure by Brett's comments that you've hung a pic of his pistons or something similiar. Await pics of my block fresh decked.

I sent your Boeing work a few pics from yesterday. Also sent the pics to Brett....

George, I dont know why you cant see the pic. Anyway, I liked the pics of your vette, it looks pretty cool. You have the hood I like with the 427 emblem. I also like the redline tires. I thought it was white, not a yellow attention grabber. You always have been a "flashy", show off type of guy. ;)

Is that the L-88 hood?

What oil pans are you guys using on your big blocks? I was going to get the moroso kicked out pan that everyone likes on here, but then realized it was $240. A summit stock 4 qt is only $30. I am starting to think maybe the milodon 5 qt pan just to give a little more oil.

I'm using the Milodan stock pan. You've got no need for a kick out pan, just a pain in the ass. Header interference, oil filter clearance issue's that You don't need.

I'm using the Milodan stock pan. You've got no need for a kick out pan, just a pain in the ass. Header interference, oil filter clearance issue's that You don't need.

Are you speaking about this pan? Was it good quality, no leaks? Fit well on your chevelle without ground clearance issues?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MIL%2D30710&FROM=MG

5 qt

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mil-30710.jpg

Brett,

I'm having issues on the pics Darryl hung...box with red X inside, won't open. Could just be the server here at Ft Lewis...rods and pistons, right? Send me the pics PM, ok?

My Vette has the pan with baffle, sump is half again as long as a regular oil pan. With filter we're talking 6 qt. Chevelles and 99% of the cars use the standard pan....with filter 5 qts. 99% of the time, the stock pan is good-enough. Full-race engines gain some power from aftermarket oil pans. For a street car with headers, fancy oil pans with kick-outs etc., possibly less clearance to the ground too....not a good idea. The longer sump of the Vette pan hits the rear of the Chevelle's front crossmember.

Do hang that pic of RatVette. This pic shows it to be unusually bright. This is the original SAFARI YELLOW color done base coat/clear coat. The L-88 hood was on it when I bought it. Need the clearance for the intake and carb. She was in body-shop prison during most of the late 90s, freed NOV 99. Those are the original 15x7 Ralleys on her and Goodyear Repro tires, not the ones Coker makes that are Firestones. I built the engine in my garage Parkland, WA in 1993. I'm a bit rusty on engine building but it is like riding a bike.

I built the engine in my garage Parkland, WA in 1993. I'm a bit rusty on engine building but it is like riding a bike.

Yea, but when was the last time you rode a bike!? :eek:

Got my 850 double pumper today! It is 6 years old but looks to be in great shape and came off a running car. Also came with some extra parts. Anyone have any idea what fuel jets I should put in to start with? I was thinking 65 for primaries, 75 for secondaries?

Got my 850 double pumper today! It is 6 years old but looks to be in great shape and came off a running car. Also came with some extra parts. Anyone have any idea what fuel jets I should put in to start with? I was thinking 65 for primaries, 75 for secondaries?

73's primaries, 76 secondaries to start. If you run 65's in front of a 850 you'll have the nastiest dead spot possible. Need a 4.5 powervalve in front. Secondary powervalve is ok with a 6.5 but if you buy a new one for the secondary get a 4.5 for that as well. Need to change the squirters to a 31, they likely have 28's or even worse,,,25's but I believe stock is 28's. This will help the mash of the throttle response.

Damn Darryl, you are good to have around. How do you remember all the numbers in the car world? Do you still remember your anniversary and birthdays?

Brett,

I was gonna fry you badly ref your post about last time I rode a bike but this was before the peace treaty.

Many post on PERFORMANCE and the archives on this. I've mentioned some jetting and concepts too. Lotsa people remove the powervalve in the secondary and simply run the jetting there 10 number richer than the primaries. In the smaller 3310 rated at 750 cfm, I see several people prefer 74 primaries and 84 secondaries on their street 454s. I'm pretty confident 65/75 would be far too small. I've not toyed with a 850DP in years....back then they didn't have all the cool intakes so they pretty much had the Chevy High Rises or the Edelbrock Torker.....and people were stagger-jetting their 850s. I get the woolies thinking about all this..... Modern intakes like the Perf RPM and AirGap dyno 25, sometimes 40 more ponies than the old stuff.

My home laptop showed your piston and crank. Darryl has been busy. Also saw the pic of the Moroso pan. Can't wait to see my 463" block

Are you speaking about this pan? Was it good quality, no leaks? Fit well on your chevelle without ground clearance issues?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MIL%2D30710&FROM=MG

5 qt

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/mil-30710.jpg

That would be the one. No issue's whatsoever, You'll be happy with it.

I would get a black one though then you won't worry if you get oil on it or it gets dirty under there...:D

I would get a black one though then you won't worry if you get oil on it or it gets dirty under there...:D

Summit didnt sell a black one, otherwise that is what I want. I was just planning on blasting and painting it. My block and heads are going to be black. Going to look badazz! :thumbsup:

George, I knew you would like the bike comment. It was perfect timing, I just snuck it in before the peace treaty! :D

What kind of header gaskets do you guys think I should buy? I will be running 2" hooker super comps.

What kind of header gaskets do you guys think I should buy? I will be running 2" hooker super comps.
I would use those copper ones:yes:

What kind of spark plug wires are you guys running? Darryl as well as other according to a search seem to like 135 degree ends. A poll showed most people like taylor wires. I found this set, think they will fit well? The second set sais they must be routed over the valve covers. Which would be best?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=TAY%2D74004&FROM=MG

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TAY%2D76032&N=700+4294864973+4294908395+4294840133+400235+4294 911098+4294864899+4294786310+115&autoview=sku

I run Taylor's as well.

Here's some cheap new Taylors, I bought a set already, don't care for the color but for the price I can deal with it. Offer a few bucks less as they have a "make offer" tab and save some more dough.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TAYLOR-SPIRO-PRO-ORANGE-PLUG-WIRES-135-DEGREE-BOOT_W0QQitemZ180126485002QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33692 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What are You running for valve covers? I might have some stuff you're interested in, if You're running stamped steel type.

What are You running for valve covers? I might have some stuff you're interested in, if You're running stamped steel type.

I have some no name cast aluminum polished valve covers. Anything else I might be interested in that you have?

http://i22.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/9f/46/e248_1.JPG

Pretty sweet eh? I spent about an hour polishing them when I got them.

How are You for brackets? I got a alternator bracket.Not much else, I'm cleaning the garage though, as We type. Got alittle project to start on.

You tell me now!? I just ordered an alternator bracket, it is a cheapy chrome chinese bracket, what a deal...

This is an old bracket offa the truck I killed for the motor.But it's been cleaned up, and painted.

Hey George, You reading this?

Yea, I bet George will want it.

Re Brackets:

I couldn't get into the forums for about an hour....dunno if that was just here or elsewhere...

Did ya say brackets? I believe I'm good on the PS pump and brackets I got from FRYNTYR. Also a crank pulley. (Thanks Darryl!) I have a BBC ALT upper, need the lower piece or pieces, the long tube for the bottom bolt of the alt..... It is crap like this that ya really gotta test-fit before the build. Ya really want to have all this worked out before engine-swap weekend. I believe the neighbor has a WP pulley.

I donated the CalCustom finned Aluminum valve covers to the BERG RESTO-RIDE pile. Would look good on a BBC in one of his 55s. The neighbor has some OEM-looking chrome valve covers on his 70 BBC Meeno that look near mint but he's gonna install a set he bought in Portland.... leaving these for me to pick-up for a song.....

So, yes, interested in any brackets and such that you may have. PM me so we can keep the thread free.

Re Brackets:

I couldn't get into the forums for about an hour....dunno if that was just here or elsewhere...

Did ya say brackets? I believe I'm good on the PS pump and brackets I got from FRYNTYR. Also a crank pulley. (Thanks Darryl!) I have a BBC ALT upper, need the lower piece or pieces, the long tube for the bottom bolt of the alt..... It is crap like this that ya really gotta test-fit before the build. Ya really want to have all this worked out before engine-swap weekend. I believe the neighbor has a WP pulley.

I donated the CalCustom finned Aluminum valve covers to the BERG RESTO-RIDE pile. Would look good on a BBC in one of his 55s. The neighbor has some OEM-looking chrome valve covers on his 70 BBC Meeno that look near mint but he's gonna install a set he bought in Portland.... leaving these for me to pick-up for a song.....

So, yes, interested in any brackets and such that you may have. PM me so we can keep the thread free.


Darryl seemed to think the W/P pulley was the same as a SBC, and all that was different was the crank pulley.

Brett,

re WP Pulley
True, believe they are the same.
Would like to have a complete engine to store/sell with accessories and pulleys...failing that, strip off what I can re-use.
I have some other brackets, just need my block and a WP to see where these items go. I can't compare my Vette BBC brackets stuff to what I need for the Elky.

Do you guys run your oil filter adapters without a bypass so all the oil is forced through the filter? I am trying to decide which one to buy.

I'm also springing for some wire loom organizers that run the wires along the valve covers. Going to look pretty sharp. I am going for a very low profile almost all black engine minus air cleaner, intake, and valve covers.

Brett,

I know if you block the oil bypass you'd best have the strongest filter body. This is to say, name brand race filters. I know some people block the bypass, most do not.

I can't wait to see how Frank does at the 1/8 mile this weekend:cool:

In the sunlight we're kinda-sorta having this AM, the Elky is shining a bit more. Mark's car polisher to the rescue. She really needs a trip to the body shop and a repaint.

Brett,

I know if you block the oil bypass you'd best have the strongest filter body. This is to say, name brand race filters. I know some people block the bypass, most do not.

I can't wait to see how Frank does at the 1/8 mile this weekend:cool:

In the sunlight we're kinda-sorta having this AM, the Elky is shining a bit more. Mark's car polisher to the rescue. She really needs a trip to the body shop and a repaint.

Roger, makes sense. Probably going to get one with a bypass, as that seems to be for stock to mild performance builds.

George, you dont have money for a repaint. You need to get that big block in first. How about we turn your garage into a paint booth next summer!?! Then we can learn to do body work and paint both elky's at the same time. :hurray: :hurray:

Brett,

Re NO MONEY FOR PAINTJOB
You are absolutely correct. I can't afford to pay attention at this point.
Big difference between what I need and what I want....
Soon I "gotta" have the small cancer spots in the bottom of the dvr door and bottom of frt fender fixed before they grow big and out of the black painted bottom area of the car. Waiting for my bud Mel to come back from his contractor job in Iraq....he won't "need" to go bact to work for some time, made big $$$$ over there.
I "want" to build a rip-ass car but "need" something I can drive.
If I make the Elky too wicked....can then tell the wife this is wasteful, should get a Nova body....., put my stuff in it,then I'd have something fast, put the Mouse and such back in the Meeno and have a nice tow vehicle.....steal Darryl's trailer.

Brett,

Run the bypass. I'm sure you'll keep the fluids in top shape anyways. If you were to run without the bypass, what would happen if the filter somehow collapsed inside and plugged it self or was plugged with some thick sludge or something?? Yep,,,no or low oil pressure and potetual damage.

I've ran both ways and prefer to keep the bypass now. A little dirty oil is better than no oil at all.

I was gonna paint the welfare nova but so far one in ten say "don't do it".

Hmmm!!!!

Of course I doubt I could buy paint now that I need to buy a trans.

I was gonna paint the welfare nova but so far one in ten say "don't do it".

Hmmm!!!!

Of course I doubt I could buy paint now that I need to buy a trans.

Well I was one that said dont do it because you dont want to spend money on it. Otherwise its not a welfare nova. Plus with the crappy, every panel different color scheme it looks scary fast. I wouldnt wanna race it. It is kinda like fighting a guy who has a million scars, and is uglier than anything you have ever seen. Would you fight a guy like that or a pretty boy like me?

If you are going to paint it, then it has to be spray paint, and various colors. :yes:

Maybe you guys know and can help me out. I put in the appropriate jets for my holley. It came with both prim. and sec. as 80's.

I was looking at the power valves but there are really no easy to read numbers. On the back where it is brass is a very light stamp of a 6, then about 60 degrees later is a 5 and then a lightly stamped H. These are all very hard to read. I have 2 backup powervalves, same thing. How do I know its a 6.5 or 4.5 or whatever? I just cant find any #'s such as on the jets.

Also where are the squirters? I dont think I have the parts to change those anyway, but would like to know what is in there. Thanks fellas. :confused:

Maybe you guys know and can help me out. I put in the appropriate jets for my holley. It came with both prim. and sec. as 80's.

I was looking at the power valves but there are really no easy to read numbers. On the back where it is brass is a very light stamp of a 6, then about 60 degrees later is a 5 and then a lightly stamped H. These are all very hard to read. I have 2 backup powervalves, same thing. How do I know its a 6.5 or 4.5 or whatever? I just cant find any #'s such as on the jets.

Also where are the squirters? I dont think I have the parts to change those anyway, but would like to know what is in there. Thanks fellas. :confused:

They would be 6.5's then. The 2 numbers are never very close.

80's front and rear for jets is too fat. I'll see what I have for jets.
Need 73's and 76's to start.

Squirters: The number is stamped between the two sides of the squirters just above them. Sometimes you have to take them out (phillips head) to read them. You don't need the fancy big 50CC upgrade on the primary side, the squirter alone is the only upgrade needed.

Brett,

The power valve 6 5 should be a 65, opens at 6.5" of vacuum.
I've heard two ways for selecting power valves
1. run them at 3 or 4 sizes less than your idle vacuum. Doing reverse math here, 6.5 + 3 = 9.5" (or 10.5 at 4 sizes) of vacuum very low vacuum
2. Have also seen if your vacuum is 13" run one at 1/2 the idle vacuum, a 6.5.

Having fun yet?
My Elky has a 6.5 PV and idle vacuum of 16-17" so I gave the car what it wanted. By all thoughts, I should have an 8.0 PV, lowest one on the shelf is a 6.5 The 6.5 comes in most carbs. There must be something to this.

On a 750 3310, there is a squirter in the primaries. Look down from the top, front edge of the primaries. It is the barrel-shaped thing with a spout pointing into the venturies held down by a big Phillips head screw.

Brett,

Didya see this a few weeks back? This was right about the time you decided BBC.
850DP...way mondo cam...good reading....
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176954&highlight=holley+jetting

Darryl, I have the right jets. I have a holley assortment. I took out the 80's and put in the appropriate ones.

The number 6 and 5 are really far away, like opposite sides of the power valve.

So the squirters are the 2 philips head screws in the carb opening? I dont have the right parts to change them, but will see what they are.

Darryl, I have the right jets. I have a holley assortment. I took out the 80's and put in the appropriate ones.

The number 6 and 5 are really far away, like opposite sides of the power valve.

So the squirters are the 2 philips head screws in the carb opening? I dont have the right parts to change them, but will see what they are.

Yes,,,,the two phillips head screws hold in each squirter on either pair of barrels at the venturi openings. Don't tip the carb upside down as there is a small needle in each one that for some reason always bounces the wrong way and I can never find them.

Yes, the 6 and 5 will be very far away,,, 1/2 way around is common.

My car pops right off and runs without a choke, normally higher compression motors will run easier without a choke than lower compression motors. So I cut my choke horn off for better flow.

Yes,,,,the two phillips head screws hold in each squirter on either pair of barrels at the venturi openings. Don't tip the carb upside down as there is a small needle in each one that for some reason always bounces the wrong way and I can never find them.

Yes, the 6 and 5 will be very far away,,, 1/2 way around is common.

My car pops right off and runs without a choke, normally higher compression motors will run easier without a choke than lower compression motors. So I cut my choke horn off for better flow.

Yea I have read the same thing. Choke horn is already off! :D I dont need that fancy pants crap.

As for the squirters, I will probably just leave them alone. Since I dont have any parts to change them, we will just see how it runs with proper P valves and jets. Should be within the ball park.

you can see which squirtes you have by looking at the face of them while on the carb, no need to take them out 'specially since you have no choke horn

small #'s though

most Holleys have 31's out of the box.
If you do replace them, go with extended nozzle type

Question for Darryl, or others with Voodoo cam experience.

I am planning on running the 60204 voodoo cam. Alot of people have been discussing valve float up at 5500 rpm and above with similar cams and springs from lunati. I was planning on running the spring that is recommended with this cam. Do I need to worry and go with different springs? Do you guys have experience with this cam/recommended springs?

Question for Darryl, or others with Voodoo cam experience.

I am planning on running the 60204 voodoo cam. Alot of people have been discussing valve float up at 5500 rpm and above with similar cams and springs from lunati. I was planning on running the spring that is recommended with this cam. Do I need to worry and go with different springs? Do you guys have experience with this cam/recommended springs?
I have had no issues with my 60203 & comp 911 springs, but I have never tried to go over 5500

I have had no issues with my 60203 & comp 911 springs, but I have never tried to go over 5500

I'm not sure I need to go over 5.5k either. However, George and Darryl say nothing sounds like a BBC at 6k. I think I might give 6k a shot as some point. On the track they sound pretty good. Also you are running comp springs, I will be running the lunati recommended springs.

I'm not sure I need to go over 5.5k either. However, George and Darryl say nothing sounds like a BBC at 6k. I think I might give 6k a shot as some point. On the track they sound pretty good. Also you are running comp springs, I will be running the lunati recommended springs.
If you look @ the specs on mine vs. the rec Lunati's they are almost identical---probably the same spring, the difference was probably in the measuring devise

If you look @ the specs on mine vs. the rec Lunati's they are almost identical---probably the same spring, the difference was probably in the measuring devise

Okey Dokie. Thanks for the info. How do you feel about your 2.5" exhaust? I dont want to end up changing mine because I just got it done and was going to stay small block. You feel like 3" would be that much better?

I am not a fan of 3" ex. on street cars--no need IMO
too much more noise & not enough gain on the street

I am planning on running the 60204 voodoo cam. Alot of people have been discussing valve float up at 5500 rpm and above with similar cams and springs from lunati. I was planning on running the spring that is recommended with this cam. Do I need to worry and go with different springs?

If you're running the recommended 73124 springs at 1.880 installed, they probably won't control the valves to the 6400 rpm advertised range. The 73264 springs are a better choice and should control the valve train to at least 6400.

Why are the 73124 springs recommended if they don't cover to 6400? The aggressiveness of the Voodoo profiles was underestimated.

Please note that Comp changed spring suppliers. I’m not saying Comp springs are suddenly bad, but the springs you buy now are NOT the same as the springs you bought last season.

If you're running the recommended 73124 springs at 1.880 installed, they probably won't control the valves to the 6400 rpm advertised range. The 73264 springs are a better choice and should control the valve train to at least 6400.

Why are the 73124 springs recommended if they don't cover to 6400? The aggressiveness of the Voodoo profiles was underestimated.

Please note that Comp changed spring suppliers. I’m not saying Comp springs are suddenly bad, but the springs you buy now are NOT the same as the springs you bought last season.

Thanks for the info, I will look into those springs.

Question for Darryl, or others with Voodoo cam experience.

I am planning on running the 60204 voodoo cam. Alot of people have been discussing valve float up at 5500 rpm and above with similar cams and springs from lunati. I was planning on running the spring that is recommended with this cam. Do I need to worry and go with different springs? Do you guys have experience with this cam/recommended springs?

Most the post I saw didn't specify if they ensured the installed spring height was adheared to. If any spring is put in without the proper installed height the closed pressure and the rate all the way to open will be off. i'd rather have it slightly to the stiffer side than to weak.

The laguna has no issues so far. I have only buzzed it 6200 at the track and it was still pull'n harder. Basically shake down runs. I have a chance to take it out in about three weeks so I'll run her up tighter. One advantage I have with that motor is I did install some titanuim retainers just to help it on the top end to keep from floating. I know,,,they are expensive,, but I got them used for $30.

Brett, you should be able to view the squirter size without taking them out. I'll try and get you a picture.

If you're running the recommended 73124 springs at 1.880 installed, they probably won't control the valves to the 6400 rpm advertised range. The 73264 springs are a better choice and should control the valve train to at least 6400.

Why are the 73124 springs recommended if they don't cover to 6400? The aggressiveness of the Voodoo profiles was underestimated.

Please note that Comp changed spring suppliers. I’m not saying Comp springs are suddenly bad, but the springs you buy now are NOT the same as the springs you bought last season.

I agree, I would probably go with a slightly stronger spring rate myself. The springs in the laguna voodoo'd motor has different springs with a stronger rate to go along with the ti retainers.

Lunati recommends the 73815 springs, not the 73124. I could not find any spring with the number 73264. There is a 10 lb rate difference in the spring you mentioned. Still I did not see a 73264. If I can rev to 6k rpm I will be happy! :yes:



This is the 73815 that lunati recommends for the cam. $80

Valve Springs, Single, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 337 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.130 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16



This is the 73124. Which is a 2 spring setup. $120

Valve Springs, Dual, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 348 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

Lunati recommends the 73815 springs, not the 73124. I could not find any spring with the number 73264. There is a 10 lb rate difference in the spring you mentioned. Still I did not see a 73264. If I can rev to 6k rpm I will be happy! :yes:



This is the 73815 that lunati recommends for the cam. $80

Valve Springs, Single, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 337 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.130 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16



This is the 73124. Which is a 2 spring setup. $120

Valve Springs, Dual, 1.500 in. Outside Diameter, 348 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

go the single spring and we'll bump up the pressure at installed height, should be fine. if you want to go the double spring, that is fine,,,just $40 more

go the single spring and we'll bump up the pressure at installed height, should be fine. if you want to go the double spring, that is fine,,,just $40 more

Nah, I think I will trust Lunati and save some money.

All this talk of big cams and springs....nice!
Hmmmm, where did I leave the paperwork when I had my heads done long ago???? Sure would be nice if I had the PNs. I had COMP springs on both sets I've had done. Hefty ones at that.

When the rods come apart and emerge from the block, you have missed your shift point. You'll be able to tell when your engine power begins to drop off, means you're either out of cam. When the valves float you'll get a surge/pop thing...

The 427 short stroke goes 6500 no issue in RatVette. Cam lift is .542" so really not taxing on the valve springs. My cast crank longer-stroke 454 will probably not see 6000 unless bragging rights are at stake. Likely 5800 will be it, middle performance cam and heads pretty much the deciding factor as is piston speed.....run a big stroke and the piston speed gets high quickly. More piston speed means much more $$$$ to be spent to keep things together.

Lunati recommends the 73815 springs, not the 73124. I could not find any spring with the number 73264. There is a 10 lb rate difference in the spring you mentioned. Still I did not see a 73264. If I can rev to 6k rpm I will be happy! :yes:


Lunati CHANGED the spring recomendation! You must have an old catalog, I hope the information isn't from the web. 73124 is now recommended. I don't think you'll get to 6000 very nicely with the 73815 springs. Not saying it's impossible, but you might have a valve or two dancing around...

73264 is on page 200 of the "old" (current?) catalog. It is a 1.500 diameter spring, installs at 1.880 with 120 pounds and has a whopping 484 rate to control your Voodoo. They might be a few bucks cheaper than the 73124 too! :)

Lunati CHANGED the spring recomendation! You must have an old catalog, I hope the information isn't from the web. 73124 is now recommended. I don't think you'll get to 6000 very nicely with the 73815 springs. Not saying it's impossible, but you might have a valve or two dancing around...

73264 is on page 200 of the "old" (current?) catalog. It is a 1.500 diameter spring, installs at 1.880 with 120 pounds and has a whopping 484 rate to control your Voodoo. They might be a few bucks cheaper than the 73124 too! :)

What! they changed it!?! :eek: This is off Summits site. I always considered them a reputable source. I guess not anymore! :rolleyes: I better call Summit.

Why not call Lunati?

isn't Harold still their VP of development? He used to respond directly to people on this site a while back... Maybe search or post in the performance section and try and get his direct line. He'll straighten ya out!

Why not call Lunati?

isn't Harold still their VP of development? He used to respond directly to people on this site a while back... Maybe search or post in the performance section and try and get his direct line. He'll straighten ya out!

Good point, I probably should. If this really is the case, maybe I could get away with using the springs that were on the heads. This is them:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=LUN-73367&N=700%200&Ntt=LUN~73367%20or%20LUN~73815&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=
Valve Springs, Dual, 1.550 in. Outside Diameter, 486 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

Good point, I probably should. If this really is the case, maybe I could get away with using the springs that were on the heads. This is them:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rsview=sku&Ns=
Valve Springs, Dual, 1.550 in. Outside Diameter, 486 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

If you can tell me the installed load and height (so I can calculate the nose load), I can tell you if they'll work. ;)

Wait, are those the 73367 Lunati Springs?! That's a roller spring and might be a bit too much for a flat cam. 210 installed, and that's at 1.940

Ok, just got off the phone with a Lunati tech. He said the spring # they are recommending has not changed, he said to use the 73815 still. Anything over that spring pressure he said would be tooo much. You can run a double spring for longevity, but he does not recommend to go to much higher on pressure.

I also asked him if he had heard about the possible valve float issues using these springs. He said he heard a few things, but not from people running anwhere below 6500 rpm.

Ok, just got off the phone with a Lunati tech. He said the spring # they are recommending has not changed, he said to use the 73815 still. Anything over that spring pressure he said would be tooo much. You can run a double spring for longevity, but he does not recommend to go to much higher on pressure.

Sorry about that. I just called the tech guy's boss and correct information will hopefully be given out from now on. New catalog (does anyone have these yet?) shows the change on page 26. If a Lunati tech tries to tell you to run the 73815 on the 60203, 60204, 0r 60205 Voodoo, suggest he check that page of the new catalog. ;)

And I STILL recommend the 73264 for the 60204. :thumbsup:

Sorry about that. I just called the tech guy's boss and correct information will hopefully be given out from now on. New catalog (does anyone have these yet?) shows the change on page 26. If a Lunati tech tries to tell you to run the 73815 on the 60203, 60204, 0r 60205 Voodoo, suggest he check that page of the new catalog. ;)

And I STILL recommend the 73264 for the 60204. :thumbsup:

Damn tech guys! USELESS... :sad: :mad:

Wainman, thanks for your help. Does summit sell these springs? I am trying to do a one stop shop kinda thing. Shipping charges kill me.

Also, I wonder why the change? Darryl is running these springs and having no issues. Why would they increase the pressures so drastically?

Good point, I probably should. If this really is the case, maybe I could get away with using the springs that were on the heads. This is them:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=LUN-73367&N=700%200&Ntt=LUN~73367%20or%20LUN~73815&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=
Valve Springs, Dual, 1.550 in. Outside Diameter, 486 lbs./ in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 16

Even if the rate would be usable, the installed spring height isn't achievable with those springs. I checked the set of springs Brett got with the heads which are the same as what is on it and they are 200 lbs at 2.0 or just a bit under that.

To get them down to a modest 130lbs they'd have to be installed at about 2.140 and the open pressure would be in around 410. A bit high at the nose of a flat tappet. Although mine is in that range

Damn tech guys! USELESS... :sad: :mad:

Wainman, thanks for your help. Does summit sell these springs? I am trying to do a one stop shop kinda thing. Shipping charges kill me.

Also, I wonder why the change? Darryl is running these springs and having no issues. Why would they increase the pressures so drastically?

Brett, I'm not running the Lunati Springs in the Luguna, just a single with a dampener. The rate on these are higher than the lunati and I put the installed pressure a bit higher as well. Plus I have titanium retainers.

Mine have a 450 lbs per inch rate. Set at 130 @ 1.87 with 415 open @ .570 lift.

Hmmm, I will call the Lunati tech again tomorrow and see what the deal is.

Okie Dokie, Tried to help Mike (loader1) to upload his video, but I think I must have been speaking Spanish... JK, he was better with the computer than I expected, still we are encountering problems. We should have his vids uploaded within a couple weeks. Doing it via phone just wasnt quite working, something wrong with the format. Also Mike started threatening to bash his computer in, I think its a "logger" thing. :p My feelings are that the videos werent very exciting anyway. I think most of the videos just shows Mark (gotago) sitting in one spot when the light turned green, tires spinning. I think he forgot to turn the traction control on. :D


I also spoke to George on the phone for a bit, who was a little depressed. He doesnt seem to think I am appreciating him much lately. He is all sad because ever since Darryl came along, he feels I dont ask him for help anymore. :boring: When I woke up he was still crying, but I assured him that without him I wouldn't have gone big block, and that I still need him and appreciate his help. :yes:
Thanks GEORGE! :thumbsup: :beers:


I put the 73 prim. jets and 76 sec. jets in the 850DP. Both squirters are 31's and because all I had around were 6.5 power valves, both prim. and sec. received them. Opened all idle screws 1.5 turns from fully seated for a starting point. Probably going to be a little rich, but figured better rich than lean. I may turn them down to 1 turn or so depending on your suggestions.


Once I get the whole cam spring thing figured out, I should be putting in my humongous $1.4k Summit order on Monday. With that order I will have almost every part I need to build me a big block. Also waiting to see if Mike has some old big block springs he could give me so I dont have to buy new ones. His are already cut and he feels it should give me the look I am after.

I do have a 71 elky frame behind the shop that had a 350 and AC. may be just right for your needs if you want the springs..



Once I get the whole cam spring thing figured out, I should be putting in my humongous $1.4k Summit order on Monday. With that order I will have almost every part I need to build me a big block. Also waiting to see if Mike has some old big block springs he could give me so I dont have to buy new ones. His are already cut and he feels it should give me the look I am after.

I do have a 71 elky frame behind the shop that had a 350 and AC. may be just right for your needs if you want the springs..

Lol, yea I saw that. I need big block springs though. I know small blocks uncut would probably work but its kinda half a$$in' it don't you think?

Damn tech guys! USELESS... :sad: :mad:

Wainman, thanks for your help. Does summit sell these springs? I am trying to do a one stop shop kinda thing. Shipping charges kill me.

Also, I wonder why the change? Darryl is running these springs and having no issues. Why would they increase the pressures so drastically?

Brett,
Please don’t bad-mouth the Lunati Tech guys. It was just a lack of communication in the organization. The Tech Guys are extremely over-worked, (you can’t even imagine), which is why you may have noticed others complaining about not being able to get through on the phones. The Tech Guy gave you the information he had in front of him, which must’ve been the older catalog.

Springs were changed on the three bigger cams due to feedback from the field, similar to the posts on Team Chevelle. These three cams are very aggressive.

Summit does not appear to sell the 73264 spring. Perhaps that will change in the future. You can run the newly recommended 73124, but please install it at 1.800” to get the control the 60204 cam needs. If you do break-in properly, everything should be fine. Alternatively, you could do the break-in with the spring installed at 1.880 or something, then change to 1.800 after break-in is complete.

Please note that Lunati officially will take no responsibility for wiping out your cam if you install the 73124 springs at 1.800. The cam card probably instructs the customer to install them at 1.880. Installed at that height, you MIGHT have trouble reaching 6200, and the cam is rated to 6400. My recommendation is simply what I would do in my own car if I was using those springs. I would also have no concerns about breaking the cam in with the springs installed at 1.800.

You need about 295 pounds at 0.400” lift to control the 60204, and to do that with the 73124 springs, you install them at 165 pounds and they go to 356 over the nose. Those are not unreasonable loads for a BBC flat tappet cam.

Enjoy the Voodoo!:thumbsup:

Wainman, I run the 60203 but I've heard that to run the 60204 some clearancing on the top of the valva guide is needed............true?

Hard to say due to the many variables involved. Depends on cylinder head, spring retainer, valve stem seal thickness and more. Just measure the clearance you have now with the 60203. The 60204 opens the exhaust 0.018" more and the intake is bumped up 0.008"

OK, you knew that too from reading the catalog :)

Your 60203 is already running the intake lobe from the 60204, only it's using it on the exhaust side.

Brett,
Please don’t bad-mouth the Lunati Tech guys. It was just a lack of communication in the organization. The Tech Guys are extremely over-worked, (you can’t even imagine), which is why you may have noticed others complaining about not being able to get through on the phones. The Tech Guy gave you the information he had in front of him, which must’ve been the older catalog.

Springs were changed on the three bigger cams due to feedback from the field, similar to the posts on Team Chevelle. These three cams are very aggressive.

Summit does not appear to sell the 73264 spring. Perhaps that will change in the future. You can run the newly recommended 73124, but please install it at 1.800” to get the control the 60204 cam needs. If you do break-in properly, everything should be fine. Alternatively, you could do the break-in with the spring installed at 1.880 or something, then change to 1.800 after break-in is complete.

Please note that Lunati officially will take no responsibility for wiping out your cam if you install the 73124 springs at 1.800. The cam card probably instructs the customer to install them at 1.880. Installed at that height, you MIGHT have trouble reaching 6200, and the cam is rated to 6400. My recommendation is simply what I would do in my own car if I was using those springs. I would also have no concerns about breaking the cam in with the springs installed at 1.800.

You need about 295 pounds at 0.400” lift to control the 60204, and to do that with the 73124 springs, you install them at 165 pounds and they go to 356 over the nose. Those are not unreasonable loads for a BBC flat tappet cam.

Enjoy the Voodoo!:thumbsup:

HEY, how did you guys get in here!? NW only! ;) :p JK, This forum has really opened up to the masses. Welcome and when you come visit the NW let us know.

Wainman, thanks again for your time. I wasnt really badmouthing the tech guys, they actually seemed pretty well qualified, not just a secretary answering the phone reading from the computer.

I will talk to the "gurus" and see what they think. Thanks, Brett

Wainman, I run the 60203 but I've heard that to run the 60204 some clearancing on the top of the valva guide is needed............true?

Usually you need to clear them with the stock retainers as the meat is thicker on the bottom side of the retainer. Aftermarket retainers may leave enough room but it's better to be safe than sorry. The stock retainers are fine for mild use but to heavy, especially with the voodoo grinds.

I got 'schooled' a bit by Tom Mobley and UDHarold re budget, old-school cams last pm. Thinking the 60204 may be a bit much for 'daily' but a 60203 could possibly cut the mustard.....figure it would be more torquey. I believe it is 110 deg LSA, thinking I'd really want 112 LSA for the automatic and pwr brake booster. Will keep researching.....

GOTAGO dropped by the 'office' here, called the old WW2 billets "ghetto."
He lent me his Power Ball wheel polisher and some polish to try. Good stuff!:thumbsup: Then we went out the gate for a little fryntyr then a testntune.
Methinks I have the sticking needle and seat. Gonna go tap the float bowls with a large rock out in the parking area.

GOTAGO dropped by the 'office' here, called the old WW2 billets "ghetto."


Yeah one of these days you'll have to get out of the "projects". I was suprised at how your Elky launched. I think you'll do well off the tree and the guy in the other lane (ain't naming names but BOTH of them have Elkys) had better not be daydreaming cause I don't think they could currently run you down in the 1/4 unless they cut a real good light. Might just have to wager a few beers on this one. Anyone want in?

Mark,
Again, I'm thrilled I can smoke-em so easily.
Encouraging is that they don't burn forever....
Really need the new goodies for the rear susp.....
Glad ya think she leaves HARD because the DRIVER has the wheel to hang on to. Some gummy drag radials would be the bomb....

Gotta clean or replace the secondary needle and seat...has stuck 2x now.
Still some other work to do with the carb.......I think I hit 5800-6000 is first but hard to tell w/o a tach.... I was rather more impressed with the 2nd gear than 1st....has gotta be the extra compression and those big valves from those heads I got from Greg BUICK SPECIAL

Doya think I could get you as both cars stand now? You had that 15.-something pass, I'm thinking I'm in the 15 second territory at the moment, possibly very high 14s down the road with more test and tune.... If you think your car is quicker, I may still be in low 16 sec territory.

With traction, you should be able to run 13s all day long. Change that intake, put a bigger bump stick in there....you could get 12s....

Doya think I could get you as both cars stand now?

The way I'm hookin now, It'd be a good run. I think I got the torque to run you down but it would be at the end of the track and I think it would be close. I couldn't miss a gear...................

I got my brackets and SFI damper this weekend. I will be putting in my summit order this week. Darryl, any updates on machining from your friend?

I think most of the videos just shows Mark (gotago) sitting in one spot when the light turned green, tires spinning. I think he forgot to turn the traction control on. :D

But I looked damn good doing it:yes:

You guys have to check out this video. I posted this in bench racing.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1380396#post1380396

Well, it was hard but I just put in my Summit order. It amounted to a whopping $1700. Bought this one on credit, next paycheck should bring me out of the red. Pretty excited to get all my parts. This includes ball joints and bushings that arent really part of the engine swap though. I will be entering it all into my spreadsheet when I get a chance and adding it up. So far I am at just a hair over $3k for the entire engine swap. Still have to pay machinist and have rotating assembly balanced. Also a few odds and ends to buy such as fuel pump/water pump and misc bolts. Looks like I might break my $3.5k budget, but there is no turning back now. :noway:

Anybody need a complete and running almost new 350 engine?

put it on craigslist, and advertise that they can see it run before you yank it.
You should be able to get some decent money for it.....

Good-Going Brett!!!!! I'm happy for ya!!!!
Meanwhile, I'm selling stuff like 'bent' PT Cruiser and some odds and ends.

put it on craigslist, and advertise that they can see it run before you yank it.
You should be able to get some decent money for it.....

Already done sir! :thumbsup:

Re sale of Brett's engine:

Brett, what are ya asking for the 350? Just curious.

George

Well I have had quite a few bites on my engine with an asking price of $900. I am thinking I should have asked for more. Looks like a guy with a 72 chevelle is my most serious caller. He hasw been sitting on the car for a while and had a bigblock lined up, fell through. He just wants to get the car driving. I am selling complete minus alternator and distributor. It even comes with wires and k&n aircleaner. Pretty darn complete.

On a second note, happy fathers day everyone. My dad bought that GTO, going to be alot of fun. Kinda unlike my dad, he isnt the type to work on a car, but should be a good reliable ride for him to cruise in and take to work. He is going to drive it alot. Planning driving it year round as long as the weather is dry, the way it is meant to be. Otherwise he has a cushy Lex to drive during the other days. Hopefully he will let me take it out once and while.

Recieving most of my MONDO huge order today! :hurray:

What was funny is Summit sent me 1 package yesterday that came from Georgia plant sent via 2 day air. It only had one ball joint in it, thats all. :confused: The other 3 ball joints are coming from Nevada by ground. :clonk:
Maybe they only had 3 in stock in Nevada? :confused:

An update and a teaser for you geezers! :hurray: All parts in stock ready for big block assembly! :thumbsup: Let me know what you guys think.

Cool aluminum valve covers all polished up and ready!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0715.jpg

Neato painted black water pump, took my time to do a good masking job. :cool:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0714.jpg

30,000 mile totalled Lexus IS 300 seats, need to find some toyota/lexus seat belts to mod so I have modern 3 point style harness. THey are black leather with suede inserts. Will also be removing the air bag in them. They are power, but will only be hooking it up temp for setup, I wont really need them to be adjustable. Maybe down the road I will do it.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0711.jpg

I also have the back seats which I will be selling on craigslist. Perhaps one of you wants them to fabricate a front bench or try to use them in the back of a chevelle? I dont have a use for them but they are nice.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0712.jpg

This is ol' lazy miss Dazy. Shes got bad rear hips... :sad:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0720.jpg

Before You sell the rear seat's, I want some measurements. If it's that close of a fit, I might try it in the back of My car.

Before You sell the rear seat's, I want some measurements. If it's that close of a fit, I might try it in the back of My car.

I will get you measurements right now. If you need anymore let me know.

Ok the seat cusion is about 20" deep. and about 55" wide.

The back is about 55" wide at the base, tapering to 51" at the top. The back, not including the bottom cusion is about 25" tall in the center, 26" tall on the outsides.

With you fabrication work, a little foam could be removed or added if it is fairly close. Here are some more pics of the rear seats. I got the front seats wiring deciphered and ran them using a 12 volt gel cell battery I have for my airplanes. Quite a few motors and wires in those seats, wires for airbags, the 4 motors, seat belt light, and heating. All power works, seats go back/forward, recline back forward, and rise up and down, also tilt forward and back. Also my headers, hooker super comps 2"-3.5". There is a small dent in them, I think I can get most of it out. Wont matter too much when you are dealing with 2" primaries! :noway:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0716.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0713.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0721.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/Brettd85/DSCN0722.jpg

Right back at you, child..................

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/tranny.JPG

I'm soooo jeaouls Mark, I want a ride down the freeway when you get it in. I still might buy one for the '70.

Good going on the seats Brett, should make for a nice ride back and forth from school.

Right back at you, child..................

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/tranny.JPG


Weak, been there done that. :yes:

PS: dont forget to turn the shift plate around and cut the webbing on the bottom to clear the crossmember.

Noone has anything to say!? Where are all the trash talkers?

Brett,

Looks like things are shaping up for you. ;)
Not sure when you are gonna balance the goodies and throw that engine together. OK, must be Darryl has a few rods to finish.
He's one busy guy.....then he has all the gearhead friends/co-dependants
:secret: He posts on Team Nova too......low-wt Welfare Nova
I posted 2-3 times...the site is dead....at least so far, T-C rocks! :bow:

That TKO will be good for GOTAGO's rig.
Ride comin' up in RatVette this week for him.....:yes:
I have the new spark plugs in, the Vette got a quick clean-up.....
My 'mild' 427/m-20/3.36 should get his attention:cool:

The 12-bolt diff has 12 middle sized bolts holding the ring to the carrier.
The 10-bolt 8.5 has 10 bolts, but several sizes larger.
There are more than a few lt wt cars running 9s on the 8.5" 10-bolt.
I may go something better later but for now, this is the plan...
OK till ya start running trans brakes, 5000 rpm launches, etc
The 8.2" 10-bolt is the one with the bad reputation. Even this is pretty tough unless you get really stupid with it. Lighter cars running automatic, it holds up well.
I could go find a Versailles 9-IN diff.....
We'll see what turn-up....
1st things first, get her kinda-sorta put together, get her home, get her to the track.:beers:

Dave, before you get carried away trying to cram a back seat in there out of something else, let me know. I have an extra back seat for a 71 that I will give you to when you get back down south.


And if any of you guys want to rifle through my shed with me. I'm more than willing to give you parts for a small donation towards my 496 build.

Thank's for the offer, but I already got a seat. Just thought that I might try it out. We'll see.

Hi Kyle!

Got a rt frt fender for a 68 Nova in your shed?:D

I'm trying to recruit some more members from the SoSound.....
So when I saw Puyallup...had to PM ya

Hi Kyle!

Got a rt frt fender for a 68 Nova in your shed?:D

I'm trying to recruit some more members from the SoSound.....
So when I saw Puyallup...had to PM ya

Sorry, you have to go talk to the other crowd if you want unibody parts. I only deal with real chevy's. Ones that have frames.

Dave, you still not smoking?

Haven't had a smoke in 5 month's.

That's great. I'm glad to hear it. I had a minor relapse for a week when one of my contractor's decided to file bankruptcy on me. But I'm back to normal now.

That's great. I'm glad to hear it. I had a minor relapse for a week when one of my contractor's decided to file bankruptcy on me. But I'm back to normal now.


I hate it when Them bastard's do that. I don't understand, I'm alway's the guy who take's it in the short's, all My sub's seem to be making a ton of money.:confused:

Yeah. These were into me for 1 new house and 2 refinishes in remodels. They ended up billing the customers, then filing bankruptcy. It killed me. I am a one man show, so I don't have enough crews to eat those easily ( not that anyone really can). I ended up finishing the jobs for the customers anyway. It's not their fault and I would have the word of mouth referrals from them down the road. I still had to eat about 17k though. That's one of the reasons why I haven't had any money to throw towards my car.