Sorry for the double post, but some of the guys here dont get over to the Engine forum and vise-a-versa

Well, I've been thinking of a future 383 combo.. I should start buying parts about a year from now. So this is a long time project and i don't own any of the parts yet, but i'd like to know if i'm going in the right direction.

Bottom end
4-bolt 350 bored .030
Scat cast 383 crank
6-inch Scat capscrew rods
KB hyper pistons (7cc)
Professionally balanced

Top end
Iron Eagle 72cc/180cc straightplugs.
Suitalbe valvesprings/etc.
Lunati 276/286 221/230 .454/.454 112LSA 106ICL
OR
Lunati 280/288 223/231 .462/.485 110LSA 104ICL
OR
A comparable solid flat tappet.
Stamped rockers (Comp or something)

Induction
Edel RPM manifold
Holley 670 avenger

Exhaust
Hooker Comps into 2.5 inch duals into Hooker Aerochampbers and 2.5 inch tailpipes. Maybe Flowmaster 4-2-1 collectors.

I'd be shooting for a .045 quench. that would put the CR around 9.6:1 and the DCR at around 7.8. I would like to run on 89 octane, but am willing to run 91 if i have to.

After that it would go into a TH350/3.36s or if thing go the way I want, a 200-4R/3.xx.

The car is an all steel bodied 70 Malibu, disc brakes, will soon be stripped of ALL A/C equipment (just heater/AC box left). Full interior (benc or buckets, i have both set ups), All glass and trim, chrome bumpers, etc. I want to run in the 13s (pretty much anywhere in the 13s, lol.). Will this set up be enough to get me there?

Also, it must be able to work powerbrakes and be driven on the street with ease. This is a STREET car, 90% Street/Hiway 5%Parked 5%Strip (1/8th)

Any comments are welcome.

Looks good, Enrique. With the relativly tallish 3.36 gears, the 112 LSA might be the better choice. Particularly if you go with the 200 trans. It will broaden the torque curve, something that will help with the OD trans. Plus, you don't want too much overlap with the OD, kind of defeats the purpose of an OD trans. With shorter gears (3.55 or so) the 110 LSA is a good choice.

You might want to research using 6" rods because the ring package is kind of on the tight side. Especially, an issue with KB pistons since they have a very wide second ring land. With 5.7" rods, however, the engine will be externally balanced. I have heard, but cannot confirm, that Eagle rods are slightly more accutately machined than Scats. I've also heard, but cannot confirm, that Scat cranks are slightly more accurate than Eagle cranks. Dave, at Pomona Valley Engines, tells me that they have not had any problems balancing the Scat 383 crank.

Enrique
you should be able to get 13's out of that for sure. I have a 68' with a 406 with a somewhat similar build except I have small heads on it rt now(s/r's) I have a .480lift 284 dur. crane hyd. cam in mine and also have 3.36 gears. I just ran consistent 14.2, 14.3 @ 99 mph with an open 10 bolt and street tires through the exhaust, had no traction at all! Have a locker in it now and expect to be in the 13's next time. I'm thinking you might be bordline with that carb though you might want to step up to a 750, but that will be a good starting point anyway.

That sounds very similar too my combo in my 69, I havent been too the track yet but when I do I will tell you the results
383 (bored .040)
Iron Eagle 64cc/230cc(I already had them but was told smaller intake runners would be better)2.05/1.60 angle plugs
Air gap intake
Scat crank
Scat I beam rods 5.7"
KB cast pistons
I let the builder pick out the cam and he hasnt given me all of the info so I dont know the specs but it is a hydraulic with around .480 lift
1.6 roller rockers
MSD 6AL
Holley 750 vac secondaries
Im not sure on compression, I think around 9.5-10
It made 400hp/425tq at the crank
Full bodied, full interior 69 chevelle
3.36 gears w/powertrax
TH400 B&M holeshot 3000 converter
Im guessing low 13's, but purely a guess

Enrique-
I'm gunna stay out of the combo critique, but I just wanted to let you know since you're so local... If you decide on that first Lunati cam, I have the same cam brand new sitting here at my house(but its an Ultradyne from when Harold was still in buisness) We could probably work something out.

=
Enrique,
I'd prefer a little tighter lobe seperation like 108 with the 383 but you will sacrifice some low speed drivability with it.
Of your two cams I would opt for the second

Do not worry about the 6" rod deal.
I have & continue to do most 3.75 stroke stuff with the 6" rod as it makes internally balancing possible without adding Tungsten in almost all cases.
The Spacer for the oil ring is just not an issue & I do not know where it being a problem got started.
In my opinion it is nothing but a myth.
If anything it makes the bottom of the oil ring groove stronger as it is spring steel.
The only place there is no actual piston support is right at the pin hole & it is only about a 1/2" area
Again,,, it is not an issue.

=============

Ive posted most of this before but,,,,,,oh well,
My opinion is that Scat is the best of the "budget" stuff
Been using & selling their stuff for well over 12 years & can't remember the last time I had a problem that amounted to anything.
Scat finishes almost all their cranks & rods in house including sizing & profiling of the lightweight stuff & the ones they don't finish like the cast ones are polished & checked for size & stroke so their quality control is real good.
On their cast cranks, they are finish polished & checked for size in house before sending them out & their reject rate has been in the 20% range!
Guess where these "Blems or rejects end up??

They are not just an importer, they do everything from cast cranks to full on $3000 billits.
They also do a lot of the GM, Chry Perf Parts & Ford Motorsports stuff among others.

Eagles rods that I have seen seem real nice too I just don't buy theirs because of the problems with the cranks & I get the Scats for about the same money.
I did a 493 Chry a year or so ago & my customer bought an Eagle crank for it. The first one had over 2thou of taper in the mains :eek
The second one was acceptable.
I have had people bring in some other brands of cranks they got a "deal" on that were pretty much junk.

Hey guys, thanks a lot, at least I know I'm going in the right direction combo/goals wise. The only thing I'm truly set on is the bottomend/heads for now, and i guess the intake. Everything else is prone to change. I haven't chosen whether to go with 3.36s or 3.55s, both using an Eaton posi. I guess my real concern is this car MUST be able to reliably run on the street all year round. I may have a spare car soon, but i love driving the A-body.

Ignition
GM HEI
Stock Cap/Coil/Housing/Shaft/Gear
Aftermarket module: MSD or something
Stock Replacemen or MSD plugwires (depending on $$$)
AC Delco plugs.
Recurved

I'll post again if I have anymore thoughts or new goals.

Steve, I'll contact you after having $$ and speaking to Harold and other cam geniuses. Don't save it for me though, sell it to the first guy that offers the $$$.

thanks everyone. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

You guys are cool, soon as i get a job :rolleyes: , I'll pay for my flag.

I'll second what Mike says,
The SCAT stuff tolerances are better than Eagle generally.

Combo sounds pretty good, BUT here's my suggestion.

go with a 4340 forged crank, and SRP pistons. Otherwise your good to go.

It is worth the extra money to spend for a WAY better bottom end. I've seen excellent results with the SCAT 9000 series crank and used one myself on my 505. But if doing it over again I would spend the extra $300 or so on a forged crank.
I used SRP pistons on my combo, but in my opinon the SRP is the only way to go unless using a stock piston..

A KB hyper is not even on my list of choices.. They aren't BAD pistons but they are still JUST a CAST piston. Do not let the ad hype alter your view of this. They are an overpriced cast piston.

This is not to say there is anything wrong with a cast piston. I've ran them under conditions I would never recommend but we're talking cheapy stock replacement Badger, Sterling, etc..
7000 rpm+, you name it smile.gif

So if building a cast piston motor, just use cast pistons if available. The next step up is a forged.. No reason to spend extra money on a hyper.

I'm building a Furd stroker currently that will be using $6.99 stock replacement smog type dished pistons. It is a mild street motor, never see much over 5500, etc,
If it was a ~6500 rpm strip deal it would have SRP's in it..

Jake,

I'd be glad to spend the extra money on the Forged parts, but I currently have no job, just graduated HS, and am about to start college and incase you haven't heard, education in CA just got more expensive. Soo, money is an issue for me. So it's either cast or hyper for my pistons and definately cast for my crank. Maybe i'll find a 400 crank, they say they're tough as nails.

Keep in mind, this is a STREET combo, i wont be regulary turning it to 6000RPM, it probably won't even see past 5kRPM during it's daily life as a street car. If anything, I'd go to the track once or twice a month (1/8th track at that) and give it all it has for maybe 5 runs a visit. So i think the cast/hyper parts will do dandy. BUT, the bottom end does have to survive several years or lowRPM street driving and midRPM hiway cruising.

Believe me I understand the budget concerns. I make a decent living, but with 3 kids and a stay at home mom, I have to watch mine too..
hence the SCAT 9000 in my motor..

Nothing wrong with that crank for your purposes.
Nor a set of stock type pistons, and 400 crank, and a set of 400 rods..

I'd probably use a SCAT crank, the 400 pieces are getting scarce and you'll usually spend what a SCAT cost getting it turned down for the 350 mains.
A set of cast pistons made for 5.7 rods would work fine.

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/

These guys have stroker kits for $727 that include the SCAT crank and rods, and a TRW hyper piston, or other cast type is cheaper. $677.

Not too bad.

Another reason to use a better crank is the balance reasons. A cheap crank WILL cost more to balance. Sometimes so much so that you could have used a forged piece..

I'm thinking primarily of the OD and 3.36 gears when I suggest the wider LSA. I have a 200-4R and 3.36 gears. At 60 mph my rpm is 1800. With a narrow LSA and somewhat long duration the overlap could be enough to adversely effect gas mileage. And mileage is the reason for using an OD trans.

I suggest not using stock type 400 cast pistons (along with 400 rods). I know of none that have the correct pin height. This makes getting the correct quench nearly impossible. Hypers, KB or others, are available with the correct pin height. You might take a look at Wiseco's Protrue line or Probe pistons for a lower cost forged piston (the Wiseco's include moly rings). TRW's are even cheaper but are heavy and not too accurately made (often, each bore must be sized for a particular piston).

Thanks Pat. Yeah, I forgot the oringal reason I wanted hyper! LOL, the pin height. I remember looking through your daily driver's specs and noticed the huge quench and then read that it's cast pistons that do that. As you know, the bottom end in my 350 is pretty much like yours, and i don't want the huge quench in the future 383 or any other engine for that matter.

I'll look into those other pistons you mentioned.

SlowPoke 70,

Here's my story....
About 11 years ago, I had a 383 put together for my daughter,s 15th birthday. She had just entered the 10th grade, and Mississippi was letting 15-year olds get their licenses(since changed back to 16-year olds!).
We used a reasonably stock block, stock 400 rods, good rod bolts, pistons that gave about 9:1 or so with the 195cc AFR heads, the old-style Performer manifold, a Carter 625-cfm AFB, stock HEI, and some new Hookers. We also had to add a custom-built radiator, as the old 305's did not get the job done.
The cam we used was the SB266/276H12, 211/221 at .050", .441"/454" normal valve lift(we used Crane 1.6s for .471"/.485"), and 112 LSA, put in at 106 ATDC. This is just a 10° smaller version of the 276/286H12.
Her initial complaint was the oil light coming on every time she stopped. We traced it to a 380-400 RPM idle, and turning up the idle screw moved it to 550, and the end of the oli light problem.
Other than burning through header gaskets for a couple of years until we split the headers, the engine ran trouble free for 8 years of daily driving. My daughter drove it for 5 years, another girl for 2, and the guys who bought it last had it a year before they dis-assembled it for a re-build.
You will like the 276/286H12, it is what I think of as a real 'daily driver', with the ability to go on long road trips. It also works good with even stock converters, and works power brakes.

UDHarold

Wow, Thanks Harold! I wasn't planning on asking for your advice until I was ready to buy things, but I'll take your advice early! Thanks a lot Mr. Brookshire. graemlins/thumbsup.gif