Hi group. Well, I have some information I will post tomorrow if anyone is interested about what all I changed while on the dyno but I figured I would atleast post the results I had. First of all, I am sold on a Chassis Dyno. For any of you out there that are trying to dial a car in, it is the cats meow. It is worth every bit of the 90 per hour they charge. Anyways, I had some things that I had to resolve before today. I have had a major oil pressure problem since the motor was fired up months ago and it ended up being the machine shop did not put restrictors in the back of the block. I am glad this got sorted out as I was pulling a ton of oil out of the pan on every pull and ended up putting another quart of oil in it to make me comfortable. I also changed over to a 4150 (750cfm) after some thoughts on the need for the dominator. And to top it off, I looked back over my engine assembly notes and the motor is actually 8:03:1 static compression. So here were the numbers:

The best-503hp,450ft.lbs. torque
The worst 490hp,450ft.lbs. torque
This was with closed exhaust

I dropped the exhaust and pickes up 50hp and 30ft.lbs. torque.

The motor hated the dominator and the motor wanted no more timing than 32degrees. And the dyno setting measured up to 5500rpm. It made peak power at 5200 and it made over 400ft.lbs. torque starting at 2500.

The interesting thing is I lost 6hp and a little torque by adding that quart of oil.

Am I happy with it? You bet. I know a flowmaster sucks and they are history and I will pull out my high volume oil pump. This was never intended to be a killer 540 and the vacuum guage actually shows around 14in. at idle. But for a motor my wife can run 87 octane in and not beat it to death when we race it will do exactly what I intended. And if I can make the car work with the power it has my numbers I wanted to get out of it at the track is within easy reach. The dyno pulls was some of the most fun I have had in a long time.
If anyone wants more details about the carburetors I tried, I will post. Otherwise, thanks for help everybody.

Oughta go low 11's even with a crappy hook.

That's VERY impressive! So it made 550 RWHP with open headers? I had same experience with the Flowmasters.

Please post details/changes and put the engine specs back in htis thread so we can see them all in one place.


Great job..she's going to have fun!


JIM

540ci
8.0 compression
early model Chevy Aluminum rectangular port heads worked by Sonny Leonards ( I can give more details but these heads have a proven track record)
2.25 intakes, team g weiand dominator intake (both of these have a fair amount of epoxy work) 114 c.c.
Jesel valvetrain
.700 lift int.and exh./ 262 int.and 272exh. dur. at .050 (lash at .026 both)
Cam installed at 110 degreed.
msd ignition and locked distributor (28 degrees currently)
750 )4150 series (2 spacer to adapt this to the 4500 intake)
1 7/8 sanderson street rod shortie headers
2.5 exhaust to the bumper with 70 series flowmasters
Richmond 4+1
3:42 gears


What impressed me was the torqueband from 2500 to 5200. I could care less about the horsepower. It made more as the rpm's increased, but it was really very consistent through the whole rpm range. I know this is in part to the manual tranny. I also have the gentleman to thank that ran the chassis dyno. He knows what he is doing and he was the one that was bound and determined to get the dominator off my motor. In this case, bigger was not better. It sure was a blast that's for sure.

Thanks,

Great news, so much for low compression, big cam and rec port heads not making power. I'm not surprised at all.

<<Great news, so much for low compression, big cam and rec port heads not making power. I'm not surprised at all.>>

I am not either. I took it on the chin with a couple of personal emails about this buildup. And thats fine. This certainly shows that if someone like myself wants to make some nice power and not worry about detonation or have the ability to run any type of avaliable pump gas this is one option. I am not deep enough into building motors to say if this could work with a 496ci or something along that line, but there is no reason for it not to. I do know this. My wife wanted a piece of the muscle car era. She was a big part of the dyno runs today helping to change carbs and just staying busy. Pretty kool that someone (anyone and not just my life) get to fulfill their dreams. As a matter of fact, 4 hours was barely enough time do all that we did. Time flies when you have fun.

Great news, so much for low compression, big cam and rec port heads not making power. I'm not surprised at all.


I've said that for 2 years here......

<<Great news, so much for low compression, big cam and rec port heads not making power. I'm not surprised at all.>>

I am not either. I took it on the chin with a couple of personal emails about this buildup. And thats fine. This certainly shows that if someone like myself wants to make some nice power and not worry about detonation or have the ability to run any type of avaliable pump gas this is one option. I am not deep enough into building motors to say if this could work with a 496ci or something along that line, but there is no reason for it not to. I do know this. My wife wanted a piece of the muscle car era. She was a big part of the dyno runs today helping to change carbs and just staying busy. Pretty kool that someone (anyone and not just my life) get to fulfill their dreams. As a matter of fact, 4 hours was barely enough time do all that we did. Time flies when you have fun.


In the nines with 9.4:1 in a street driven car NA.
CR...maybe it makes more HP but it aint necesary is it?

BTW....it wasn't the flowmasters, it was the pea shooter pipes.

Nice job!

Ron

Thanks for all the great feedback. I want to thank Ron as you really give me an idea of what I need to do if I ever want to change the power level. The exhaust thing I am not sure what to do with. I figure with the 3" collectors I can atleast step up the pipe diameter. She likes the sound of the car and what I will about the exhaust won't be resolved til she can hear some other exhaust. My dyno man says people lose power with the Flowmasters but I bet he sees a ton of more cars with them versus the other brands. I may not change anything right now. It makes more than enough power closed up now than it needs to if I can make the car work.

Thanks again,

Try 3" Borlas. Lots of extra power and sound good too.

Good choice on the carb change, and I also think it was the tailpipe size that held back power.

How soon do you think you will have it making passes at the dragstrip? No matter what anyone might think of your build combo or the great dyno results, your e.t./mph will really tell the story.

Thomas

It is worth every bit of the 90 per hour they charge.
Anyways, I had some things that I had to resolve before today. I have had a major oil pressure problem since the motor was fired up months ago and it ended up being the machine shop did not put restrictors in the back of the block.
I am glad this got sorted out as I was pulling a ton of oil out of the pan on every pull and ended up putting another quart of oil in it to make me comfortable. I also changed over to a 4150 (750cfm) after some thoughts on the need for the dominator. And to top it off, I looked back over my engine assembly notes and the motor is actually 8:03:1 static compression. So here were the number:

The interesting thing is I lost 6hp and a little torque by adding that quart of oil.



Hi John,
Great to see you had a good time on the dyno & you are correct, a lot of info to be had.
The actual numbers are way less important than what you learn about what your engine wants ;)


Couple of things though :)
First is you do not want restrictors & especially not with roller lifters.
I do not use or recommend restrictors in anything I do nor do any of the lifter manufacturers or spring manufacturers unless you are running spring oiling.
Restrictors have not been recommended by any performance engine builder I know of for probably 20+ years except for a few that haven't been paying attention :D

Second is:
I see oiling issues on strokers quite often & it in nine times out of ten has nothing to do with pumping oil out of the pan
Stop & think about this,
The only oil that can get past the bearings is what the clearances allow regardless of pressure or volume.
You cannot put more volume of oil through an orifice than the orifice will allow, it has nothing what so ever to do with the volume you start with unless you don't have enough.
If you have too much it goes into the pump bypass.
This is returned to the inlet side of the pump with a stock one.
All oil that goes to the lifter except what is sent up the pushrods is returned directly to the pan.

Agree completely with losing the hi volume pump, not necessary. All you are doing is putting more oil into the bypass.

Here is an example I posted a while back, about half way down the page
Notice what happened to the power when I added & removed oil
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5481&highlight (http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5481&highlight)=

50hp by dropping the exhaust... thats why I'm getting cutout's :yes:

<Try 3" Borlas. Lots of extra power and sound good too.>
If I do an exhaust change, they are at the top of my list. I like the way they sound.I need to find a street car that has them and let her take a listen.




<Good choice on the carb change, and I also think it was the tailpipe size that held back power.> Yes it was for sure. When we made a pull with the 850 (4150) and we lost a little power, the formula my carb. guy used was right on. The only reason I tried the Dominator was because we wanted to see if just having bigger venturis, butterflies, and just a more even air distribution would have changed the power. It killed it with the exhaust open and closed up. This was the first big inch low compression motor they ever pulled on so there was quite a few onlookers to see what kind of power it did make.

<<How soon do you think you will have it making passes at the dragstrip? No matter what anyone might think of your build combo or the great dyno results, your e.t./mph will really tell the story.>>

Probably a month. I have business to tend to and I need to put a loop under the car, get the chassis stuff set up and address my oil pump issue. As far as dyno numbers. It's just a number. Most people look for HP. I look at torque. My torque numbers tell me what I wanted all along and that is 12.30's on street tires at 115mph and an 11.50 somewhere in the low 120's mph. That is all I wanted out of this deal. We have a local pump gas shootout in August we want to run so I want to have the car dialed in by then.








<Hi John,
Great to see you had a good time on the dyno & you are correct, a lot of info to be had.
The actual numbers are way less important than what you learn about what your engine wants>

And you are right. You can tell so much just pulling on it. You can check fuel pressure, temparture, oil pressure, and an overall feel of the car and not have to actually concentrate on driving. Take the driving element out and you can really focus on the car. In my case, I was not looking for every last piece of horsepower. I was looking for a number that would make the power I wanted for its intended purpose. I recommend anyone that has a hot rod of any sort to spend a couple of hours on one. You won't regret it.


<<Couple of things though
First is you do not want restrictors & especially not with roller lifters.
I do not use or recommend restrictors in anything I do nor do any of the lifter manufacturers or spring manufacturers unless you are running spring oiling.
Restrictors have not been recommended by any performance engine builder I know of for probably 20+ years except for a few that haven't been paying attention >>

As a matter of fact it has the Crower severe duty lifters with the hippo oil system. My machinest passed away last year and the person that took over running it said it needed to have them. This has been a timing issue with with Wally having passed away and I sort it out as best I can. I would bet a hot dog that had I not put them in I would have done damage yesterday. But this is good information for myself and others so if you want to keep talking about this, please do so. If I ever meet you I will gladly buy you a beer or whatever I can.

Second is:
<I see oiling issues on strokers quite often & it in nine times out of ten has nothing to do with pumping oil out of the pan
Stop & think about this,
The only oil that can get past the bearings is what the clearances allow regardless of pressure or volume.
You cannot put more volume of oil through an orifice than the orifice will allow, it has nothing what so ever to do with the volume you start with unless you don't have enough.
If you have too much it goes into the pump bypass.
This is returned to the inlet side of the pump with a stock one.
All oil that goes to the lifter except what is sent up the pushrods is returned directly to the pan.

Agree completely with losing the hi volume pump, not necessary. All you are doing is putting more oil into the bypass.>

I am going to have to dig into this issue for sure. And I won't lie, the mains are darn near .004 and I have yet to get a rear main seal to not leak. I like my oil pressure when the motor is at operating temparture (25idle, 65max), so the clearances are fine with me in relation to the pressure but I wonder how much this is affecting the loss on the top of a pull? I have thought about an electric vacuum pump but really hate to get into all that. I ran 20w50 and would really like to go back to 10w30 so once again, if you want to discuss it or give an opinion, please do so.







<50hp by dropping the exhaust... thats why I'm getting cutout's>
Yeah, this is good information for people who have not had exposure to constricting exhaust like mine and the affects of it. Dyno guy says he has seen 80hp increases. We really expected more that what I gained by dropping it but I was happy. I thought about the cutout deal but I do like the stealthy approach myself.

Thanks everyone

<<Couple of things though
First is you do not want restrictors & especially not with roller lifters.
I do not use or recommend restrictors in anything I do nor do any of the lifter manufacturers or spring manufacturers unless you are running spring oiling.
Restrictors have not been recommended by any performance engine builder I know of for probably 20+ years except for a few that haven't been paying attention >>

As a matter of fact it has the Crower severe duty lifters with the hippo oil system. My machinest passed away last year and the person that took over running it said it needed to have them. This has been a timing issue with with Wally having passed away and I sort it out as best I can. I would bet a hot dog that had I not put them in I would have done damage yesterday. But this is good information for myself and others so if you want to keep talking about this, please do so. If I ever meet you I will gladly buy you a beer or whatever I can.

Second is:
<I see oiling issues on strokers quite often & it in nine times out of ten has nothing to do with pumping oil out of the pan
Stop & think about this,
The only oil that can get past the bearings is what the clearances allow regardless of pressure or volume.
You cannot put more volume of oil through an orifice than the orifice will allow, it has nothing what so ever to do with the volume you start with unless you don't have enough.
If you have too much it goes into the pump bypass.
This is returned to the inlet side of the pump with a stock one.
All oil that goes to the lifter except what is sent up the pushrods is returned directly to the pan.

Agree completely with losing the hi volume pump, not necessary. All you are doing is putting more oil into the bypass.>

I am going to have to dig into this issue for sure. And I won't lie, the mains are darn near .004 and I have yet to get a rear main seal to not leak. I like my oil pressure when the motor is at operating temparture (25idle, 65max), so the clearances are fine with me in relation to the pressure but I wonder how much this is affecting the loss on the top of a pull? I have thought about an electric vacuum pump but really hate to get into all that. I ran 20w50 and would really like to go back to 10w30 so once again, if you want to discuss it or give an opinion, please do so.

=
HI Jim,
I don't understand why you think installing restrictors saved the engine?
I don't use them in any Chevy engine, big or small block & this includes street, drag & circle track.
What exactly is it you are attempting to do with the restrictors?
Lifters by there very nature are "self restricting" to the pushrods & any oil going to the needles & rollers as well as the outside leakage is returning directly to the pan.
If someone is telling you to use them I would highly suggest you call Crower, Isky, Crane, Comp, Lunati, Bullet,,, the list goes on & get a few opinions here.
Another point is the only thing that cools & protects the springs is the oil so you don't want to be limiting it here either.
In a lot of endurance stuff we actually add oil via spraybars or rockers with spring oiling.

If you have return issues from the heads you want to address this but,,,,
You do not want restrictors in front of the lifters.


If you have that much clearance then you may well need the Hi volume pump if you don't wish to do anything about the clearances but I have run .0035 with the standard one.

I think you will find the Horsepower loss at the top of the pull is more related to windage than any pumping losses from the pump itself.
Did you read the link I provided?

If what you were seeing was an oil pressure drop at higher RPM it may well be that you are entraining the oil into the crank & "pulling" it out or you are "blowing" the oil right out of the sump from the windage.
The cure for this is a tray to divorce the sump from the crank & rods & a lot of pans do not do an adequate job of this with stroker cranks.