Well, I took the day off of work yesterday and finally got my engine on the dyno. I was a nervous wreck since this is the first real performance engine I have ever built completely by myself. We ran the engine in on the dyno for 1 hour at varying speeds to break it in. It fired right up with no problems whatsoever (whew!). Good oil pressure and all vitals were good. We had a couple of cylinders that weren't firing well (EGTs were cool).

After the break in we changed the oil/filter and cut the filter open for inspection. There was NO metal at all on the drain plug. Likewise, the filter had nothing in it. Oil looked fine, too. I could see some assembly lube in the oil but that is normal. We changed the oil and filter and ran all of the valves. I had a couple of poly locks back off on the two cylinders that weren't firing well. After we lashed the valves all EGTs were spot on.

I made some baseline passes with no carb spacers. We tried timing all the way from 32-40 degrees. The engine liked 36 degrees of total timing. I tried a .5" open spacer as well as my Wilson 1" 4 hole tapered spacer. The open spacer gave ~10 and 10ft lbs of torque increase across the RPM band as compared to no spacer. The 4 hole Wilson spacer gave another 10hp and 15ft lbs over the 1/2" open spacer. We also tried different valve lashing to see the effects on power. The cam lash spec is .025 int/exh. We tried .015 int and .020 exhaust. Neither change showed an improvement as the engine didn't want "more cam."

At the end of yesterday's testing the engine made 685hp at 6,400RPM and peak torque was right at 600ft lbs at just over 5,000. These numbers were lower than I had thought they might be. I was surprised at how low peak power occurred. Looks like I won't need to zing this engine very high at all to get max power. The interesting thing is that the engine had as much as 2.5" of vacuum at peak power. It looks like it wants more carburetor. I left the engine there last night as the shop wanted to try a dominator on there just to see how it would affect power and change the vacuum readings we were seeing. I will know the results of that test this afternoon.

I expect it will end up right at 700hp which is close to what I had expected. In all likelihood I won't be running a dominator as I don't think it would work too well for bracket racing. However I may end up (sometime in the future) checking with Bo Laws or Patrick James about getting a 4150 style carb that will flow better (HP1050 or similar). At the end of the day these are just numbers anyway. What's important is what it will do at the track and I'll know that answer soon enough. All in all I'm quite pleased to see all of my hard work pay off. I may start putting the engine in the car this weekend.

Hardly a dissappointment Ken. And if the motor was built tight, another 10-20 will free up as its worn in. Getting rid of the vacuum at rpm will certainly free up more.( the "right size" 750 on the 427 ran up to 5" at 7000! ) Reckon you'll be over 700 in short order.


Good job Mr. "pro-am" builder!! Now go make some money! smile.gif

Good news Ken! :cool:
Glad to hear all that hard work and hassles paid off. Also great to see you did do the dyno testing after all.
My King Demon RS is sitting in the garage, you're welcome if you want to try it...
Firing up a new motor for the first time is like waiting for one of the kids to be born. ;)

Ken - Nice numbers. What's in that beast?

Troy.

Here's the new combo:

.030 454
4.280" bore
12.48:1 compression
Wiseco pistons
Crower Sportsman I-Beam rods
Lunati Racer Series 4" crank
Custom ground Cam Motion solid roller
Canfield 300cc rectangle port heads
Dart oval/rect single plane intake
Holley HP 950 with 50cc rear pump
MSD pro billet distributor
MSD 6-AL box
2" Hooker Super Comp headers

I wasn't able to use my headers on the dyno as I didn't have hook-ups for the EGT sensors. Instead they used a Hedman Hustler header with 2-1/8" primaries and a 4" collector :rolleyes:

Very nice numbers. Must be a great feeling knowing you built it and how it performed on the dyno. Congratulations! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

What are the cam specs on the Solid roller?
Are the heads bolted on "out of the box" or did you port them?

Looks like Ed is soon to be dethroned as the quickest n/a 468 in the world! :rolleyes: You`ll have to paint your car orange to make the reults valid though. I would try ABA testing running it red, orange then red just to be sure.

Again, best of luck at the track....should go like stink!

Mmm..Mmm good! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by Chris_69_SS:
Very nice numbers. Must be a great feeling knowing you built it and how it performed on the dyno. Congratulations! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

What are the cam specs on the Solid roller?
Are the heads bolted on "out of the box" or did you port them?

Looks like Ed is soon to be dethroned as the quickest n/a 468 in the world! :rolleyes: You`ll have to paint your car orange to make the reults valid though. I would try ABA testing running it red, orange then red just to be sure.

Again, best of luck at the track....should go like stink! Thanks. Specs on the cam are .726 gross lift 254/260@.050 108LSA installed on a 104ICL. Heads have been fully ported by Champion Racing Heads and the runners were reduced from 310cc to 300cc. As for "dethroning ED".... I have no interest in comparing my ride to Ed's. It's an apples to oranges comparison. My goal for this build is to run as close to the bottom of the index of my class (10.0) as I possibly can. I prefer to have the faster car when bracket racing. Gives my opponent the first chance to red light and gives me more speed at the top of the track.

Ken,

I'm curious how your VE numbers came out with the heads being "downsized"?

Also, couldn't you still throw on your headers even just to see if they do make more power? If it's a fair amount just with rough testing, I'm sure you could have at least a single bung welded into your headers for an EGT comparison at worst.

Rob

Originally posted by mfsr:
Ken,

I'm curious how your VE numbers came out with the heads being "downsized"?

Also, couldn't you still throw on your headers even just to see if they do make more power? If it's a fair amount just with rough testing, I'm sure you could have at least a single bung welded into your headers for an EGT comparison at worst.

Rob MSFR, I didn't bring the dyno sheets home with me last night since they weren't done testing. I'll get them this evening when I go to pick up the engine. I'll scan a couple of them and post them later. We did 12-13 passes yesterday in addition to the 1hour break in. We used nearly 25 gallons of VP standard yesterday alone :eek: I called the shop this morning to see about the headers. Gary Grimes said that the smaller headers would make some difference, but he wasn't able to do that testing for me. We had agreed to a fixed price for the testing and I think they have more time in it now than what was originally planned. This project (as with most) has gone over budget and I don't want to spend any more $$$. I just want to go racing.

the cam size seems to fit the rpm.

Ken,very impressive numbers! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

nice job ken cant wait to see the times on her.if you ever run over my way let me know

Ken, glad to hear things went off without a hitch. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Its always nerve racking putting your own work on the dyno for the 1st time. :eek:

If you get the time, please post the entire dyno pull so we can see how the curve looks.

Also, can you tell us what the correction factor was for the pull? I remeber that being a real eye opener on my second engine dyno trip with the 422.

No Mention of Jetting runs... Were you in the pipe out of the box? Im curious to see the BSFC and VE numbers as well. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

John,

Ill post some full dyno pulls this evening. I talked to the shop a little while ago and they tried a 1090 dominator on my engine. It picked up over 20ft lbs from 3,200 to 6,100 even going lean in the midrange. They were using the dominator adapter that I had blended to the intake I bought from Lukovich Racing. Peak horsepower went to 697 and peak torque to 603. They said with proper tuning the dominator should go 725 judging by the BSFC #'s. The vacuum readings also came down by 1" across the board. May have to give some serious thought to a new carburetor. I will prolly end up sending some of my dyno data to Pro Systems and Bo Laws. Those are the only two companies I would like to work with. My dad used to race with Bo in SS back in the 60's, so he's been around the block a time or two.

Hoffbug,

The jetting was left just like it was with my old setup 79p/86s with no rear PV. The dyno operator said the A/F mixture looked good based on the EGTS with all cylinders between 1,250-1,300 degrees farenheit. The #7 cylinder got to 1,330 on a few passes. EGTs were measured per cylinder with the sensors mounted on the underside of the header pipes as close as possible to the header flange. We ended up enlarging the air bleed holes by .005" as the carb was pig rich at idle with all four idle a/f mixture screws completely closed before we started any of the pulls. We couldn't do o2 due to the leaded fuel. Again, I will scan/post all the data from a few runs later tonight.

700 ponies and 600 ft-lbs out of a .030 over 454. Thats pretty darn good if u ask me :D Great job on the build

Very stout Ken.
I hope my 496 even comes close.
Ron

Hey Ken, box some of them ponies up and send em my way. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks for sharing the info Ken. You've got a real nice piece there that should get you real close to your ET goal. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Now, what you gonna do to get that power to the ground? ;) :D

30x9x15 radial Hoosiers is what I'm going to try :D

ken, outstanding! congrats on the rebuild and the impressive #s.did you run a hone into the cylinders ? or did they power hone e'm?

Ok. Here are two average pulls. The first one is with a 1/2" open spacer and the second with a 1" Wilson 4 hole tapered spacer.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/dyno/dyno_sm.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/dyno/dyno%20001_sm.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/dyno/dyno%20002_sm.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/dyno/dyno%20003_sm.jpg

One thing I noticed when reviewing the pulls this evening is that the water temp was never very high. Seems to me that with aluminum heads the temp would need to be a little higher for max power. When I did the pulls on my old hyd. engine with the same heads the water temps were around 205* :confused:

Nice!

Hi Ken,
Very nice graemlins/beers.gif
Good to see all your work pay off.
On Temps, The oil & water numbers are about where you want them for best power,,cool water, hot oil.
Carb looks very efficient judging by the BSFC numbers, who did it?

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
Hi Ken,
Very nice graemlins/beers.gif
Good to see all your work pay off.
On Temps, The oil & water numbers are about where you want them for best power,,cool water, hot oil.
Carb looks very efficient judging by the BSFC numbers, who did it? Thanks Mike. Appreciate your insight on the temps. I usually try and stage the car about 160 degrees as that is where is seems to run best/most consistent. I did all the work on the carburetor. I bought the HP950 new and did the following modifications: installed 50cc pump in the rear, changed cams, squirters and jetting based on numerous track testing data. I also blocked off the rear power valve and add rear jet extensions but I can't honestly say that made any difference.

Do the EGT #'s look ok to you?

Impressive Ken! can't wait to see some track times! Hope you can get it to hook.

Im not sure how to calculate V/E's from that data but they should be pretty high based on the BSFC. It should be a fun motor in your car.

Originally posted by hoffbug:
Im not sure how to calculate V/E's from that data but they should be pretty high based on the BSFC. It should be a fun motor in your car. I had put all of the info into DD2K prior to running the engine on the dyno and here's what it came up with:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/dyno/dd2k.jpg

The peak horsepower was close but the torque figures in DD2K were off quite a bit from the actual dyno runs, so I'm not sure if the VE numbers are that accurate. There's no doubt that it's packing the cylinders though. We checked warm cranking compression between one of the pulls and it was 225lbs :eek:

700 HP! :eek: Dang it Ken, nice job on the home built bullet. You raised the bar for me. Somwhow, I don't think I will be building that much grunt though. smile.gif Get that beast between the fenders and hit the strip.

....did you get the e-mail I sent you last week?

Originally posted by Epistuff:
700 HP! :eek: Dang it Ken, nice job on the home built bullet. You raised the bar for me. Somwhow, I don't think I will be building that much grunt though. smile.gif Get that beast between the fenders and hit the strip.

....did you get the e-mail I sent you last week? Jim, I just checked and didn't see an email from you?

I just resent it to quick66@bellsouth.net. Note the new e-mail address I have, jvr70@msn.com

Ken, from all of us who struggle to break into the 13's on a hot day, all I can say is...We Salute You! (newby bowing)

Thats a pretty efficient motor. probably even more so with your headers on it ;)

If you get a chance... Change the Desktop dyno numbers for the cam duration to "seat to seat" instead of .050. See what happens.

Pretty low EGT spread from what I have seen and low BSFC as well.

Originally posted by Doug F.:
Pretty low EGT spread from what I have seen and low BSFC as well. And that's a good thing, right? smile.gif

Ken,
Why 20w-50 oil on the dyno pulls?

Jim

Originally posted by Epistuff:
Ken,
Why 20w-50 oil on the dyno pulls?

Jim We broke it in with 10w-30. Idle oil pressure was 25lbs. The dyno operator wanted it to be a little higher. Went to 20w-50 and it picked the idle oil pressure up to ~32lbs. You will find if you use lifters like the Crower or Isky Red Zone that you will lose about 10lbs of idle oil pressure all things equal. The Isky's have 3 holes vs. the Crower's 1 oiling hole. I lost a little pressure up higher (used to have 80lbs at WOT). It's probably a combination of the extra oiling holes in the lifter as well as the tolerances being *slightly* looser on this engine than on the previous mill.

In 2 months, an 489 canfield 310cc engine will dyno.

10.2 compression, non ported heads. Small roller. Aiming for mid 8:s with 200 shot in 2800 lbs car ;)

And of course, fine reults, congrats.. =)

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by kjett:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Doug F.:
Pretty low EGT spread from what I have seen and low BSFC as well. And that's a good thing, right? smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]You betcha', as long as it's makin power :D
The surprising numbers are the hi RPM BSFC numbers.
Holley's typically start going rich somewhere after peak torque unless someone has done a very good job on the fuel curve.
The HP series seem to be a bunch better than the standard series as do most Demons assuming the jetting is somewhat close.

That sucker looks almost like FI :D

Well...I'd expect EGT's to be within 50 with a good EFI intake smile.gif smile.gif

Ken,

Awesome results. I'm sure you are anxious to get the car back to the track.

I hope to have my new project together and on the dyno in the next month or so as well.

awesome,.that is the cam I should be running. I too have a carb too small, and should have picked a dominator. I'll see if my engine builder will lone me his. I'm considering running a tunnel ram and another 850 db. we will see.