OK, this is stupid.

Voodoo HR 60212/60622 231/239 .6/.6, using stock GM lifters. Way too much ticking, I can't deal with it.

I tried 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, now running 1 full turn. Still too much noise, but its a little better w/1 full turn.

How far can you preload a HR lifter? I HAVE to do something. Any other suggestions? I was thinking about taking off the roller rockers to confirm the cam, these are new GMPP 1.72's. But its been said that roller rockers don't make noise, plus the engine got quieter anyway w/more preload.

I'm afraid that this 300.00 cam has to come out if things don't quiet down.

I bet that you'd sure hate the old 30-30 solid lifter SB cam!

pdq67

i think there other porblems casuing the lifter to tick. lack of oil presure to the top end for one. and are u sure its not and exhaust tick??

Definitely not an exhaust leak...you can actually hear the valves closing. Plenty of oil to the top-end, pulled a cover and it went all over.

Are the rockers roller fulcrum or are they using a ball like a stock rocker?

What brand and weight of oil are you using?

I wouldn't preload the lifters any more than you already have. You run the risk of running them too tight. Is there any high performance Hydro roller cams that do not tick slightly when closing the valves? My Crane Power Max did the same thing. I'm surprised tightening the preload made any difference at all.

I remember GM warning about there factory hydralic roller big block will not make more than .550 lift. This is the highest lift in the GM catalog with any hydraulic rollers and the stock lifters. I do not use these so Im not sure.

Harry P. Hunter

Guys these are full roller rockers. I'm running the 15w-40 rotella. The lifters should handle the seat pressure, as the heads are zz502, and the lifters are the same as zz502's (140 on the seat). I'm at a loss at this point.

Here's what I'm talking about, although the fan creates some background noise:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/?action=view&current=Motorvideo.flv

Put some solid rollers on that thing and then you can call it normal!

500+ HP ain't supposed to be quiet ;)

my valvetrain isn't nearly that loud with the same cam. I have a slight tick from a rocker arm/pushrod geometry problem, but that's it. How do your rocker arms sit with the valve closed?

That's about what mine sounds like, a little quieter since I have a SB I guess, but the same kind of noise. Can you hear it while driving it?

Put some solid rollers on that thing and then you can call it normal!

I would of went SR, but too much $$$. Figured by the time I buy a cam, lifters, springs, I would of been approaching 1000.00.

It does it louder when driving, that's the problem.

Guys these are full roller rockers. I'm running the 15w-40 rotella. The lifters should handle the seat pressure, as the heads are zz502, and the lifters are the same as zz502's (140 on the seat). I'm at a loss at this point.

Here's what I'm talking about, although the fan creates some background noise:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/?action=view&current=Motorvideo.flv

It was my understanding that roller cams did not need the diesel oil (zinc) only flat tappet.

Hmm good point. Maybe some lighter oil would make it quieter?

I remember GM warning about there factory hydralic roller big block will not make more than .550 lift. This is the highest lift in the GM catalog with any hydraulic rollers and the stock lifters. I do not use these so Im not sure.

Harry P. Hunter

I really think you are on to something. I could not find that info, however, when you look at THIS (http://www.gilbertautoparts.com/frame.html?/ChevyBigBlockV8s/502ho.html) "Ultimate ZZ502" from Gilbert Chevrolet, it has Crane lifters "Long Travel, Designed For High Lift Camshafts". The cam in that motor has only .610/.632 lift. That Voodoo of yours is at .600, not far off.


The lifters should handle the seat pressure, as the heads are zz502, and the lifters are the same as zz502's (140 on the seat)..

They may be able to handle the pressure, but if Harry is correct, and I suspect he is due to the above, then this would be your issue. The stock ZZ502 cam only has .527/.544 lift. You might be lucky and replace them before they blow.

The video helps to compare mine to yours - while my engine with the same cam has a slight tick to it, you definitely have much more. I guess its not just your superhero ears, Vince :)

I have solid rollers in mine and I can barley her them in the car. just a very slight sewing machine sound. personally I like to hear my motor working ;-)

[QUOTE=69-CHVL;1337255]OK, this is stupid.

Voodoo HR 60212/60622 231/239 .6/.6, using stock GM lifters. Way too much ticking, I can't deal with it.


The factory hydraulic lifters supposenly will except .580 max lift, maybe less, maybe more, depending on the factory machining process that day.

We've increased our lift useage on these by having cams reground and the base circle being reduced that drives the lift increase. So our actual max lifter height in the lifter bore is about the same as it was stock but when closed is further in the hole.

The lifter followers are what is suspect in making noise when the lifter travels to high out of the block. The tin hold down and the follower that guides the lifter can only take so much.

The 572 gm motor may do the same thing with the cam base circle as we have done.

Food for thought, but this is what we have found in our dealings with the factory roller lifters

I measured how far the lifters sit in/come out of the block in relation to the stock cam .511/.540. It was almost the same. There was alot more room for the lifter to travel up before hitting the dog bone.

So maybe the answer is, we throw the set of Crower HIPPO lifters I have in there with a tight .008 lash and run it that way.

Also something to think about is if the lifter was coming up to far that oil pressure to the lifter was not being constant which would make the lifter noisy.

So maybe the answer is, we throw the set of Crower HIPPO lifters I have in there with a tight .008 lash and run it that way.

That's what I'd try. To me, it doesn't sound that bad. But maybe it's just not coming through on the audio. This is, by the way, the reason I've moved away from the aggresive profiles of modern cams. Yes, they make tons of power compared to the older cams but at what price. Lifter problems, rod problems, special springs, etc. JMO.

Vince, Good Luck and keep us posted. Also, can't wait to see what it runs at the track.:beers:

Vince, I guess that IS noisy. I dont think my solid roller clatters that much. I would give the other lifters a try if you already have them. I would just drive it like that, personally. But if it bugs you, I can understand the frustration.

RATtyCamino,

"This is, by the way, the reason I've moved away from the aggresive profiles of modern cams. Yes, they make tons of power compared to the older cams but at what price. Lifter problems, rod problems, special springs, etc. JMO."

Same here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a good old solid lifter cam.........

pdq67

I know there is a limitation of the base circle of the cam versus the travel of the stock GM lifters and dog-bone. It seems you have checked that already after reading the second page of replies.

I used to sell re-ground billet GM cams and never made the lift go too far from .550 because of the dog-bone deal when used with the GM Lifters.

I wonder if the tray is holding the dog-bones down firm enough or is it just enough extra travel to make it clang like it is.

hmmm...

Go with a good set of solid rollers. No pump up to worry about, and no dogbone to worry about. I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong on this, but that cam is too small to damage a decent set of solid roller lifters.

Vince,
There is a good chance that the problem is the lifters. Depending on the block and when the lifters were manufactured, some of the stock GM lifters have the oil hole or groove in a position that uncovers it when the cam comes to full lift. I have seen at least one Mercruiser 502 that would not work with the stock lifters at .600 lift. You need to pull the intake and watch the lifters as they open and see if the oil hole is coming out of the bore. You will have to remove the link bar to see this. A small base circle cam can cause the problem on the down side too.

The amount of preload does not make any difference. As long as there is some preload, they should be quiet, especially at idle. Preload only affects the chance of the lifter pumping up at higher rpm's if you get into valve float. The last pair of 502 Mercruiser's I did used a .625" Crane cam and were quiet with the Crane lifters.

Bill, at rest these lifters sat in the same position as they did with the stock cam. Stock lift was .540, this cam is .600, so there's a difference of .060. think that's enough to cause problems?

Vince,
It seems to depend on the particular block and lifters. I have seen at least one Mercruiser 502 that worked fine with the stock lifters and the .625 lift cam, but had two others recently that needed the "high lift" lifers :( Basically, you have to check them. While you are at it, check the od of the lifters. If they are the same ones that came out of the engine, they should be ok, but I had a set about 5 years ago that were almost .0015' smaller than they were supposed tobe. They were noisy as all get out. We swapped them and along with quieting things up, we gained 50 hp on the dyno :eek:

again, how do your roller rockers sit when the valve is closed? Mine make a similar noise but not as loud. I found that due to the longer valves I had to run a shorter pushrod to get the roller on the center of the valve stem. By doing this it makes the pushrod pop out of the cup in the rocker arm slightly when the valve is closed.

If Gilbert (AKA Sallee Chevrolet) puts the "long travel" lifters for the cam in that motor that has only .610/.632 lift cam as standard issue, why wouldn't you put a set in, or take Grn69chv offer of using the Crowers?

Bill, at rest these lifters sat in the same position as they did with the stock cam. Stock lift was .540, this cam is .600, so there's a difference of .060. think that's enough to cause problems?

Actually at the lifter it would be 0.0354 X 1.7 = approx 0.060 at the valve.
Jeff

Thanks for the info Bill, I'll check. I'm pretty sure though the oil hole was no where near coming out. I think at that point the lifter would of raised the dogbone before the oil hole would of made it out.

Knudsonm, rocker was just slightly off the center of the tip, but the contact pattern was nice and tight. Consensus here was just to run with cause it was close enough. Kinda glad I didn't get custom pushrods now b/c if the lifters have to be changed out I probably woulda needed new pushrods again! BTW - aren't you running these lifters?

Wildman...its all about the $$$$. I did not want to buy a set of lifters, it woulda defeated the whole purpose of me buying this cam. If I have to spend 400-500 of lifters, I shoulda went SR.

I wouldn't preload the lifters any more than you already have. You run the risk of running them too tight. Is there any high performance Hydro roller cams that do not tick slightly when closing the valves? My Crane Power Max did the same thing. I'm surprised tightening the preload made any difference at all.


Tom, you were running the OE lifters right? Was it as noisy as this?

I'm running stock replacement lifters from Competition Products with the stock dogbones and spider. When I was researching this camshaft the max lift number I found was .612 When checking P/V clearance I saw no movement of the dogbones at full lift.

Sure sounds "clacky" as opposed to what a solid ft setup sounds like. I'd ID the noise and unass it quick. Aint right.

Got a set of Crane HR's coming. If they don't work, I know where to find all you guys!!!

Forgot to ask, maybe BillK knows, are these lifters taller requiring shorter pushrods, or is the plunger height about the same?

Vince I have 9.00" 8.100" and 8.300" 1 pc .080 wall pushrod collection if any of these fit let me know.

Got a set of Crane HR's coming. If they don't work, I know where to find all you guys!!!

Glad to here you got them ordered. I hope this fixes the problem. I sold all the other sets of pushrods I had. Sorry I can't help there.

Vince I have 9.00" 8.100" and 8.300" 1 pc .080 wall pushrod collection if any of these fit let me know.

Thanks for the offer, but the pushrods I have now are like 7.xx and 8.xx. There really short, and actually I need to go even shorter than that!

Ok hope you get it sorted out what a hassel!

Last but not least. Just about every really noisy hydraulic cammed motor I have heard,that sounded like a solid, ended up having the cam timing off a few teeth. I've seen at least half a dozen people line up the wrong marks and a chevy will run three teeth off. The noise is the first indication. second is that you have to run a huge amount of timing to get it to actually run just ok at a idle. If timing is normal and runs hard, no issue.
Just food for thoguht.

That cam is spot on. I degreed it with Vince. Cam spec called for 106ICL, it was 106.5 (?? Vince). Over the course of a couple weeks, it was checked at least ten times - pistons needed notching for P/V clearance.

Edit - knew it was 1/2* off, didn't remember if it was advanced or retarded that 1/2* though.

It was like 105.5 actually. Got on it yesterday (I live dangerously), and I must say the top-end pull is incredible - 6000rpms+. This is with a stock 3310 that I'm messing around with. With the 870 it pulls even harder. When the Cranes get in there, I'd like to get to the track and see what kind of MPH we can get.

I cracked into the motor yesterday and took a look around, installed the Crane lifters.
The factory lifter w/this cam at rest sits exactly as it did the factory cam. There was another ~.100 the lifter could travel up at max lift before hitting the dogbone. I installed the Crane lifter, and it too travels up about .100 before hitting the dogbone. But, the oiling hole sits lower on the Crane so I would imagine it will oil better???? The stock lifters may not like the agressivness of thsi cam, we will see.

On a positive note, the pushrod cup in the lifter sits LOWER on these Crane lifters...so my rocker geometry just got better :hurray: . Which also makes you wonder, any time you change ANYTHING you may have to buy pushrods :mad:

check the rocker arm, retainer clearance.

Since I don't believe in DBP's (drive by postings) figure an update is needed.

Alright gentlemen, look like we have a winner :hurray:

Crane lifters installed, 1/2 turn + tighten (what's that, about 9/16) and she's quiet. Not super super quiet, but real quiet. Crane tech says preload needs to be between .020 and .070 which translates into 1/4 to 1 turn. WOnder if it would get even quieter with 3/4-1 turn.

Funny thing is, I looked at the old lifters and they pretty much rode in the same place as they did with the old cam. The oil band/hole did not come out during max lift. I guess the OE lifters don't like the agressive nature/lift of some cames. These lifters are the same that are used in the ZZ502, and I have ZZ502 heads so that rules out spring pressure.

Check out the difference:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/VGIORDANO_2007/DSC02635.jpg

Great thread Vince, and thanks for keeping us posted.

COOL!! Very glad to see you licked that problem.

I would not tighten more than 1/2 turn. It would put too much preload on the lifter, causing valve float at higher rpms...

Glad you got it sorted Vince. Thanks for the update!

Rob

Good info.

I've got a 383 with a factory hydraulic roller lifter that makes a very similar sound. It runs great, but the sound is just kinda annoying/embarassing. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem.

I used Crane factory replacement lifters. Maybe I should try the longer lifters.

We can finely have fun drama queen has been fighting you all the way have a good summer!!:thumbsup:

Congratulations of getting it solved.
It's lookin better for the show on June 10
Jim got a new driveshaft ordered.

I feel obligated to update all the threads I started over this issue:


Turns out I still had what I thought was too much noise. The Crane helped immensly b/c the pushrods seats were lower is these lifters that the factory, this was taking care of the real underlying problem...read on:

Big update for me.:hurray::hurray::hurray: Just put in new pushrods from Trend in my motor. guess what? NO MORE NOISE!!!!!!!
The pushrods I needed ended up being ~.100+ shorter FROM THE CRANE LIFTERS, which has a lower pushrods seats than the GM. So that was the F-ING problem all along - not the lifters!!!

Thanks to Wolfplace for the QUICK service and tech support :thumbsup:

That's probably what my problem is, not knowing how to properly measure pushrod length.

If your running a MARK 6 block (1996 and newer) U are not supposed to run higher than a .570 or .580 lift cam in them. I belive the lifter will bottom out against the plates that keep the lifter from rotating. They do make aftermarket lifters for the MARK 6 block that let U run the bigger than .580 lift.

You can run more lift than that, all depends on the base circle of the cam. OE lifters didnt drop anymore into the block with the Voodoo cam, or come out any higher. Looks like the Voodoo is ground on a large base circle - which is a good thing.

BTW - I have the aftermarket lifters in there from Crane.

Good articale Vince. Since this was one of Harolds design cams, did you ever talk to him about it. I ask this as I am currenlty running the Comp version of your cam but in a small block 282/290. He told me his closing ramps are not as agressive as comps and this help eliminate noisy issues.

My cast comp roller took a hit and is gone, waiting for Harold to finish my billet. I will use my current comp rollers on this HR cam. Your issue got me to thinking and on the lookout for issues. Thanks

It was brought up to UD and he stated what you mentioned...slower closing ramps, so there shouldnt be any noise.

At idle now I have a little bit of that ever-popular "sewing machine" noise, which is welcomed. There is a difference between sewing machine and ticking, IMO.