Hello All,

I'm posting 1 of several questions I have for my new toy (1964 Chevelle Malibu SS). I love the looks I get; the nods from people when they see me in the car.

The previous owner had a new engine installed and a tranny upgraded to match. The egine came off a corvette (I have the corvette valve covers, since he replaced them with stock) although I don't know what year. The engine is now a V8 350 horse power dream. The tranny is new too. So, with with all this I'm figuring I will need to upgrade the brakes to compensate for the added weight and haul this car has. What are your recommendations? I have all the information if you need more (me being too vague).
I'm trying to keep my ride looking good, sounding good and being safe too. The problem is (as always) money. I want the interior fully restored and maybe the exterior paint redone, but I see issues with the brakes, and some minor wiring that will need to be replaced.

Where should I start? What should I do?

I'm not too car literate or engine savvy so please be a little patient since this will be my project to tinker and learn too,
Mastermind26

It's a very good move on your part to address brakes right off the bat. For the brakes you have two choices. Stay with the drum brakes or go to disk. Disk brakes are the best but quite pricey. I doubt you could convert for less the $600 and it would probably be quite a bit more. As for drum brakes, Praise Brake Company (not sure that is exactly the right name) in Texas makes shoes and parts that can bring drums close to the performance of disk. However, they are not cheap and could approch the cost of disk.

350 isn't exactly a lot man. It's not like you need any serious parts to back that up. Just my opinion. I don't mean any disrespect toward your car...i'm sure it's nice.

I mean 350hp...sorry

Thank you for the replies.

Yes, I agree. I have seen the kits for converting the drums to discs. They ARE pricey. I think I'll save up for that and work on that first.

I also understand that 350hp is not a whole lot of power (comparing to what is out there), but I think the engine that came originally was a V6 240, am I right? Anyway, 350hp is more than enough to turn heads and give you the accel. when needed.

Where do you think I can find the best deal for the conversion? I have visited ebay, but they ask for about $700. I can visit other places (like catalogs) that have been introduces to me recently (huge help with that...many thanx), but I would like to see all the venues if possible.

Keep me posted,
Mastermind26

Probably a straight 6. I don't think any V6 were around in 64. A 350 hp SB will pull your car around just fine. My 280 hp 350 in my Elky works very well. Getting on the freeway is easy. Granted it's not as quick as my bracket car but for a driver, it's fine.

If you do a search on Praise in the brake forum, I'm sure you will find their web site address. A brake job may be all you need. You can do it yourself and save a bunch. Be sure to turn the drums, very important IMO.

Where exactly is the brake forum found?

Mastermind26

It s the drum you see when you take a wheel off. New cars have rotors that the disc pads grab, old brakes use shoes that spread against the drum.

www.praisedynobrake.com (http://www.praisedynobrake.com)

Also, you might step into some of the resto tips sections off our main page here. Many articles on drum/disc conversions.

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/index.html

Does your car still have the single cylinder master cylinder? If so, I would seriously conssider a total upgrade. I beleive you can do it with parts off another A-body GM car, but I'm unsure of 64's specifically.

427L88 (Gene), you have the praise shoes on your chevelle don't you? Just wondering how you like them.


Jerry

The brake forum
http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=7&submit=Go

Ok. I have been surfing here and there looking for choices. It seems to me that people are ~50/50 on the upgrade. Some recommend the Praise shoes and other the upgrade to discs. For the amount of money we're talking about (~$300 for the shoes & ~$900 for the discs), what you rather have done to your vehicle?

At the moment I can't afford either one, but when the money is available I would like to get this project underway. So, your input will help me aim for the higher priced discs or save just enough for the upgraded shoes.

Thanx a bunch, :D
Mastermind26

First thing I would look at is replacing that single master cylinder with a double. I believe I used one from a 67 chevelle and reworked the lines.

Second, don't underestimate a good brake job on your car. Replacing the wheel cylinders and shoes with a good turn of the drums might just be the ticket. I went disk on my 65 convertible, and I just rebuilt the stock brakes on my 67 elky. Both stop fine.

MM26 (sorry, name?),

I'm of the opionion you must first evaluate how you are going to actually use the car. If you drive it in a manner that you find yourself needing to haul it down from high-ish speeds multiple times in a very short time period, or do much of your motoring on steep mountain roads, or use the car as daily transport, then by all means - upgrade to disks. Understand, though, that disks are not going to stop the car any faster than drums, but they will provide better resistance against heat build-up and, therefore, brake fading.

Upgrading to a dual M/C? Again, if the car is an occasional driver, just ensure the stock M/C is in excellent repair. As Pat suggested above, a GOOD brake job and inspection may be all you need.

Finally, coming to a hault quickly really comes down to the tires.

Good luck and have fun with the new toy!

Dan

I don't care how much horsepower your engine has, the issue is whether you can stop the car quickly enough from highway speeds. Even if it takes 5 minutes for a worn out and mis-firing six cylinder to get the car up to 75 mph, the car is still moving at 75 mph, and you need to be able to stop it.

That's a matter of weight and speed (force = mass x velocity squared). So to stop the car, you have to apply a counter-force (brakes) substantial enough to overcome that in a reasonable amount of time.

Look up the membername "ed3196499". Ed designed his own disc brake system for his big block powered '64 using boneyard parts on a tight budget. I've seen it up close, and it looks great! I didn't ask how much he spent, but I'm sure it's no where near what a kit would have cost.

Ed is a genius when it comes to working with a car on a budget. His work impresses me to no end.

Here is what I suggest. Pull the drums and inspect the brakes. Replace the shoes if needed, I would stay away from Raybestos though. They never lasted very long for me. If you replace the shoes, turn the drums (about $10 a pair). Replace the hardware. This isn't as cheap as it use to be with prices going from about $2 an axle to $12 or more. Replace the fluid in the system. This is very easy to do using the gravity method. Just hook a hose and jar to the bleeder, open it and keep the master full. When new fluid comes out close the bleeder and go to the next. Start with the right rear, then the left rear, then right front. Unless the wheel cylinders are leaking, I'd leave them. When you're done make several hard stops to "seat" the shoes. Otherwise you might glaze them, and have to do the job again. This is about the cheapest way to do it. Save up for the upgrade, either high dollar shoes or disk.

I come from the ol' school where we had more gumption than cash.... There are much more cost effective ways to get disc brakes without spending $600 - $900 at MP Brakes.......

Cam

Hi Again,

My name is Wil. The use the car will be receiving is the weekend family trips (some far some not)and the occational "show it off" @ work.

At the moment the car feels like it stops fine, but sort of sluggish. The wheels are new (90% tread on all 4's)and I don't see any leaks of any kind (yeay!).

The only reason for upgrading would be for peace of mind and assurance that the vehicle will stop when the brakes are punched hard. I have yet to use the vehicle a very high speeds and hit the breaks hard.

So, in terms of cash. What would we talking about to maintain the existing brakes? Should my mechanic do this kind of work or can a weekend warrior "mechanic" like me do it?

I have received many answers and I thank you for your consideration,

Mastermind26 (Wil) graemlins/waving.gif

Nice to meet you Wil.

Unless you know the history of the car - particuarly the last time the brakes were completely gone through, do as Pat suggests - a good brake job:

- Completely inspect all the metal lines for rust/corrosion, especially where they connect to the flexible hoses. Remember that typical brake fluid (DOT 3 and 4) absorbs moisture so the lines can, and do, corrode from the inside out.
- Inspect the flexible hoses for signs of aging and cracks. If you need to replace one replace them all. Again, they can look fine from the outside but be a mess inside.

Note: regardless of single well or dual well master cylinders, disks or drums, if one of those metal or flex lines springs a leak while under way you'll be in for a tense moment.

- Inspect the area around the master cylinder for signs of leaks. Rebuild/replace if in doubt.
- Remove drums and inspect the wheel cylinders for signs of leaks. Rebuild/replace if necessary. If one on the front is bad, replace both on the front because sometimes new ones will have different inside bore diameters than the old ones and if one is larger than the other it WILL affect braking performance. Ditto for the rear.
- Have the drums inspected and measured. If they are real old or worn it may not be possible to turn them without compromising their structural integrity. If you have to replace one on the front, replace both. Ditto for the rear.
- Purchase good quality shoes and replace the return springs. Actually, some vendors sell brake "hardware kits" that contain all the return springs and other parts. Again, if you don't know the history, it may be a good idea to replace all the hardware for each wheel - it's certainly possible that all the h/w is 40 some years old.
- After all the new stuff is installed, ensure you get the initial shoe adjustment at each wheel correct.

Can you do it yourself? Probably. There are some special tools that make removal/installation of the brake shoe return springs easier, and you'll need some flare nut wrenchs if you need to replace any of the lines. The tools aren't terribly expensive. Also invest in a service manual.

Good luck!

Dan

One other thing, If you do them yourself, do one side first and use the other side for reference. That way you can get them back the same as before.

Well, I have 4 wheel manual drums on my car. I had to make a sudden stop at 35 mph and my car swereved all over the lane.

I talked my mechanic (actually a buddy of mine that is an actual mechanic) today. He suggested I bring it and he inspect the vehicle for me (all inclusive inspection....yes!)

It also happens that I drove the car last night and had to speed up (getting into the freeway). The vehicle in front of me thought he/she had a private road and was traveling @~35mph (on the on ramp). To make a long story short, I hit the brakes (don't recall if it was too hard) and the car swerved very slightly. Freaked me out! I've had the brake subject in my mind and to have this happen, well it just caused me to panic (as I'm writing this I realize I may over reacted in panicking). graemlins/clonk.gif

I will definetly look into the drum/disc upgrades more seriously, especially in this winter weather (well Cali. winter weather). :rolleyes:

On another note, I have seen the maintenance catalogs for this vehicle, but never considered getting one. What would be the advantage of spending $20 on something like this?

Mastermind26 (Wil)

Hi Adman,

I tried visiting your site livermoremuscle.com.

It's down? I was hoping to get a glimpse of other chevelles. Is there a forum to view member's projects and restorations?

Mastermind26 (Wil)

Don't bother with the Haynes or other general books. Get one of the Service Manuals specific to your year of car. Most of the Chevelle places have them. I also recommend getting the Assembly Manual. Both are helpful but if you can only get one go for the Service Manual. The Service Manual has the entire wiring diagram and many other helpful bits like torque values. Mine is in dire need of re-binding smile.gif .

Don't put off a brake job while waiting for the funds to upgrade. Hopefully, your friend will give you some good guidance.

BTW, there are some pics of my 2 El Caminos linked in my sig (go to the bottom of my home page for the links). They are nothing special but are servicable.

OK .....if you pay 6-800 bucks for a brake kit your out of your mind. On my dads GTO we got spindles off of a 70 monte carlo from a friend, went to advance auto, got all the corresponding parts and the master cylinder all wich were in stock and spent a total of about 200 bucks with the spindles. Do it that way. Its much cheaper and you get the same results as a factory kit from OPG or somone like that.

Hi Nickel333,

I'm not sure what you are saying.

Are saying that even upgrading the drums' shoes is a waste of money? I'n not sure I follow. In terms of cash out of pocket, isn't it about the same for the upgrade than it is for the switch from a doner vehicle? I could be wrong or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. :confused:

Please explain,
Mastermind26 (wil)

Ok, I have another question to bring up, but I'm not sure if this is right forum to do it in. It is performance realted, but necessarily brakes.
I talked with the mechanic and recommends the upgrade of the drums. He says the discs were not really needed for the amount of driving I would give the car. So, in part that's ettled.

However he mentioned that the suspension was a little "slushy" when he tested it. He says that he would also recommend that I go for a litle stiffer ride to make sure the tires grip the road and not have the car to bouncy.

Would you agree or disagree with comments? I do feel the bounce when there are bumps on the raod, but I never thought up upgrading this too.

I see why cars are money pits. Still love my ride though!

MAstermind26 (wil)

I'd start with new shocks. I like KYB shocks, about $30 each, but any gas shock should help. This is one of the easiest DIY jobs there is.

It is likely the suspension bushings are shot. These are more expensive. You can go with stock rubber types or upgrade to polygraphite. On a budget, rubber is cheaper but they don't last as long. do the shocks and save up for the bushings. It's also likely the steering parts and ball joints are going away. Again more money, but you can do a lot of this piecemeal. Take care of the worst things first.