Has anyone here made use of the as cast bosses on a RPM Air gap mainfold for a nitrous install? I hear that single plane intakes and a nitrous plate under the carb is prefered over a plate under a dual plane? Just wondering if anyone here has drilled and tapped the bosses and set up for a 150 shot with one of these manifolds and if that is "better" than a plate on a dual plane?

Craig,

Once you go fogger you will never go back. Foggers generally hit harder and your cylinder to cylinder distribution will be better.

I see ten's coming up...

Ryan, Marty!!! Merry X Mas guys graemlins/hurray.gif I was just looking at JEGS the other day and saw a fogger system for a 150 - 250 HP set up and that got me to thinking a little. I would want to talk to my machine shop that did my engine work. Would ring gap be a prime concern for a 150 shot? Questions like fuel system / timing come to mind at this point. I do have forged pistions and a steel crank, stock Chevy rods with ARP bolts. If it's just a matter of backing out a little timing............may really think about this type of deal. Marty, we will have to hook up at the track this spring. I am planning on going 11's soon. I am gonna get in the loop and mix it up with the boys this summer... No more Test and Tunes only!!!!!!!!!!! Under 11.50 would require a cage, that would be another project. The car was running way consistant at bottom 12's as is, that would put as fast car in that class.....it's gonna be a kick. As today is the first day of winter, looks like I have got time to figure it all out. Enjoy the Holidays!!!!!!!!

run the fogger you can get a better tune cylinder to cylinder id start rich and work my way into a perfect tune.

Originally posted by ak69:
Ryan, Marty!!! Merry X Mas guys graemlins/hurray.gif I was just looking at JEGS the other day and saw a fogger system for a 150 - 250 HP set up and that got me to thinking a little. I would want to talk to my machine shop that did my engine work. Would ring gap be a prime concern for a 150 shot? Questions like fuel system / timing come to mind at this point. I do have forged pistions and a steel crank, stock Chevy rods with ARP bolts. If it's just a matter of backing out a little timing............may really think about this type of deal. Marty, we will have to hook up at the track this spring. I am planning on going 11's soon. I am gonna get in the loop and mix it up with the boys this summer... No more Test and Tunes only!!!!!!!!!!! Under 11.50 would require a cage, that would be another project. The car was running way consistant at bottom 12's as is, that would put as fast car in that class.....it's gonna be a kick. As today is the first day of winter, looks like I have got time to figure it all out. Enjoy the Holidays!!!!!!!! What are your gaps now? With 150hp you will be fine. I would suggest a NX Pirhana or Shark system - a 2 solenoid system only. One for nitrous, one for fuel. If you later wanted to upgrade to more nitrous, up to 600hp, you just need to add additional solenoids. The nozzles will be more than adequate.

I just checked prices on flatlanderracing.com - you can get either the shark or pirahna for the same price, $853 with 15lb bottle. Pirhana (sp) is 200-500hp and has conventional 1/16" NPT fitting, the shark is 200-600 with 1/8" NPT.

Just about any engine in good health can take a 200 shot - especially a big block. More of the question is, what HP are you making now, add 200hp, are your components capable of that power? Foggers are easier on the engine than plates.

What are you running for a fuel pump now? I bet a single 310 Product engineering pump would do it all for you, nitrous and fuel, deadheaded at the engine is fine also (high pressure return at the pump). www.productengr.com (http://www.productengr.com) . I don't like their pumps with filters - I had to run an inline filter anyways, so save yourself the money and get pump less the coffee can filter. PE4500, $349! Good for 900hp. The product engineering pumps are guaranteed for 2 years of CONTINUOUS USE. Nobody else has the balls to guarantee their product for that service. I have had their 460 combo pump for several years now and it works flawlessly, and it's not that loud if mounted properly.

As far as timing goes, if you are running good gas you hardly need to take out any timing for 200hp - 2 deg would do. Otherwise start at 4 deg out and see what the plugs look like.

You will only need a cheap 12-803 holley reg for the nitrous system - that's what I run now as do most of the promods out there.

Other MUST HAVES are 1)bottle heater 2)pressure gauge 3)flow tool. You can make the latter, when you get serious I will post some photos.

You will also need additional bottles - don't buy them from the name brands, I can get you the EXACT same bottles much cheaper.

66 283: do you think you could post some pics anyway? I really would like to see how some other people set up their foggers. I'm having a hard time figuring out where I want to bend the lines and put the fuel lines and regulators. I would appreciate it.

Here are some pics from the first time i plumbed it maybe 3 years ago?

http://66283.150m.com/Ryan/NXShark12.jpg

http://66283.150m.com/Ryan/plumbing02.jpg

And then I thought it would be smart to use the rails:

http://66283.150m.com/Ryan/632_12%20Aug28.jpg

http://66283.150m.com/Ryan/632_14%20Aug28.jpg

My most recent setup was more like the first, but I had longer lines, it was the easiest to get to the fittings etc. I will post some pictures of it when I get home. It was the Applied Nitrous www.appliednitrous.com (http://www.appliednitrous.com) setup using a holley regulator, his distribution blocks and compression fittings. I recommend them over manually flaring both ends! Buy preflared lengths and then just cut the compression ends.

I have since sold that manifold and we are putting my fogger on a friend's engine, I am going to try a multistage annular dry system next.

Um, wow. Thanks for the pics. If you have any more of your first setup that would be rad. I'm not running the rails and can use more examples of setups w/out them if you got em. What kind of regulators are those? So are the main 2 lines from the tanks running up the back of the motor, over the intake and then to the 90 degree fittings on the bottom of the regulator(s)? And why the dinky -4 (or -6?) lines on the N20 kit side? Is that just to keep less volume in the line so the gas doesn't hit before the fuel? And what is all that stuff (regulators) stacked on? Did you just make a little bracket or something that mounts on the thermostat housing? Sorry to hijack the thread.

I can email you more photos when I get home.

Here are the basics of my fuel system

ORIGINALLY

tank
-12 to 460 PE Pump (pump has -8 bypass right to tank)
-10 from pump to Y block at front
2 PE regulators mounted right on Y
Carb reg -6 to carb bowls
nitrous reg -6 to each side of fogger

There was a triple bypass system, 1 low press from each reg, 1 high pressure from the Y, they have small restrictions (nitrous jets) and then join up and return to the tank via -8 line. You can make your own bypasses by cutting the flare off a -3 male fitting and sliding in a nitrous jet where the flare was. About .016 to .020.

My latest system used only a bypass on the carb and high pressure sides, I ran the 12-803 reg for the nitrous system deadheaded as per Jeff Prock's recommendations. Mainly so when you hit the nitrous the pressure starts high and then drops to the flowing fuel pressure rather than dip below and then recover. I'm not completely sold on this as I previously ran a hobbs switch at 0.25psi below FFP and it never shut off the nitrous on my data logger so the pump could keep up despite the bypass.

I also found that driving around on the street with the big 460 pump - the carb bypass is necessary as it adds some compressibility to the system. Otherwise if you initially flip the pump on at idle it can and will hit so hard that it will blow right past the needle and seat and spray fuel 4 feet high out of the vent tubes! Once the fuel is moving it's OK.

My new fuel system is the same pump with another motor stage attached to it capable of 2000hp at about 90psi.

I ALSO apologize for hijacking the thread, but my new manifold looks kinda like this ;) I just bought it today except I am adding annular foggers.

http://66283.150m.com/Ryan/DSC00001.JPG

66 283: you have email. the address that i use is jjthomas@nebraskacourtreporters.com

yellow77, I just emailed you about 40 pictures.

Ryan, thanks for the links. This will give me somethings to think about. That new intake set up looks killer. Looking forward to future updates on the MOST OUT OF CONTROL award winner!!!!!!

Craig; I'd think twice about using the bosses unless fuel will be added at the same place. Could end up with a nasty pop in at least one cylinder when nitrous is first activated. I'd stick to the plate system, as it'd be easier to set up and regulate. Steve

The cat is out of the bag!!!

Originally posted by 67chevy2:
Craig; I'd think twice about using the bosses unless fuel will be added at the same place. Could end up with a nasty pop in at least one cylinder when nitrous is first activated. I'd stick to the plate system, as it'd be easier to set up and regulate. Steve 67chevy, the nozzles are both N2O and fuel... much better than plate systems at high HP settings.

Man - once you get over 700ci - things get pretty complicated smile.gif

MAT

No doubt, Fogger is the way to go.

Originally posted by MAT:
Man - once you get over 700ci - things get pretty complicated smile.gif

MAT 700 cubes? Not yet LOL. It is only slightly bigger than before.

Originally posted by 66 283:

67chevy, the nozzles are both N2O and fuel... much better than plate systems at high HP settings. Ryan,

What do you consider "high HP"?

Is it really worth using a Fogger system for a 175hp shot or less? (just curious)

The recommended max level plate system on a dual plane is 150 shot. I sprayed that all last year. It's a cheap kit, simple to install and will work just fine at that level. I even sprayed a 200 shot a few times and saw no problems on the plugs. I'm currently switching from my RPM to vic jr because i want to spray 250-300 this year.
I have a line on a fogger, but it's alot more work and time to set up and install.

BTW, if i remember correctly Ryan did get the " MOST OUT OF CONTROL" award, but I think i remember he hurt the motor too ? I may be wrong, but i have read that mag article 100's of times.

Most nitrous MFG's recommend 2 deg retard per 50 HP. My local engine guys used to spray 2 foggers and ended up with -4 deg timing with both kits on.

Good luck.


One more thing my car went from 12.63@ 109 on motor to 10.98 @ 124 on a 150 shot turning it on at the 30FT mark.

Mike

Originally posted by mike1985:
The recommended max level plate system on a dual plane is 150 shot. I sprayed that all last year. It's a cheap kit, simple to install and will work just fine at that level. I even sprayed a 200 shot a few times and saw no problems on the plugs. I'm currently switching from my RPM to vic jr because i want to spray 250-300 this year.
I have a line on a fogger, but it's alot more work and time to set up and install.

BTW, if i remember correctly Ryan did get the " MOST OUT OF CONTROL" award, but I think i remember he hurt the motor too ? I may be wrong, but i have read that mag article 100's of times.

Most nitrous MFG's recommend 2 deg retard per 50 HP. My local engine guys used to spray 2 foggers and ended up with -4 deg timing with both kits on.

Good luck.


One more thing my car went from 12.63@ 109 on motor to 10.98 @ 124 on a 150 shot turning it on at the 30FT mark.

Mike Ya, I hurt the motor - but it wasn't directly nitrous related - the tune up was good evidenced by all the plugs and pistons, but it found the weak link: a wrist pin. I have since overdesigned them so I can find the NEXT weak link LOL.

I'm not a plate expert so I don't know at what HP people start having problems - I think it very specific to the intake and engine you are running. I ran 250hp cheater plate on a small block for YEARS with no problems but I have never sprayed more than that through a plate. I know a lot of people who run big shot plates but I think it gets a bit dicey above 400hp. People have to start running individual cylinder timing or different spark plug heat ranges on different cylinders to make up for distribution problems.

Did you have adual plane or single plane on the SBC that you ran a 250 cheater on ?

You right at the 400 level and higher it's probably better to use a fogger, however i didn't get the inpression from the origional poster that he intended to spray that big of a shot.Plain and simple , especially for the beginner is the best way to start. I always go by the MFG's recommendations when starting someone new to nitrous, sure, this guy has done this or that and his motor is still alive, but unless you know the entire combination it's hard to tell what's really going on. 1 simple camshaft characteristic ( OVERLAP) plays a HUGE part when dealing with nitrous, most peoples are different.

Good luck with the new wrist pins, but i'll bet detonation did it in. 99% of nitrouis problems are created by ourselves, usually being too aggresive.