i am a complete noob at this stuff but im learning as much as i can and latly i have spent alot of time trying to get my 72 malibu to start. so heres what i screwed up so far.....

(1)it ran pretty well,not much trouble starting, but overheated fairly quickly.

(2) i took it for a short night run and didnt pull it in the garage far enough so when i tried to start it up again it wouldnt start and i got that high pitched whine from the starter(like when its not getting enough power). i thought it was dead so i replaced it.

(3) installed the new starter and still wouldnt start.

while i was waiting for the new starter to come in i pulled the front accessories and cleaned them, tightened everything back down and replaced some very old gaskets. i turned the harmonic balancer a few rotations by accident.(would that throw off the timing?)

right now it just cranks and cranks and i cant even hear the engine begin to start at all. checked for fuel getting to the carb and its there. new spark plugs, new ignition coil(points type distributor).

(5) i checked the spark plugs and everything is in the right firing order. i checked the rotor and distributor cap and replaced them because they had burn marks. i didnt adjust the dwell after though cause i dont know how and they said it should start anyway. still no start so i have been trying to figure out timing adjustment.

i turned the engine over by hand(at the harmonic ballancer with socket wrench) until the timing mark was at "0" which would be top dead center right? at that point my rotor was pointing at the #1 cylinder and then i advanced the timing by turning the distributor counter clockwise. is this right?. i tried to start it up and kept adjusting the dizzy little by little and still coildnt get it to start. but now i can hear the engine trying to start. for a second it sounded like the pistons were firing but very poorly for 10 sec and then it stopped. and justy spitt out exhaust. i could see a white mist and/or white smoke come up from the carburator. does this over and over but no start. im just afraid i am going to damage something.

any ideas or help. am i doing this right?
thanks in advance for your feedback.
-ben

Ben,
Turning the balancer will not change your timing unless the distributor was out of the motor. You need to make sure you are getting spark pull one plug out reconnect the wire and lay it on the motor somewhere then crank it over to see if there is spark. then we will take it from there.

Scott, thanks for taking the time to help me. i appreciate it. i did what you said and there was no spark. not even a weak yellow one.

i tried a different ignition coil i had, and it was the same thing with that as well. all the spark plugs are pretty old. i have a new set but i crimped them before i cut them to the right lengths, so they are WAY to long. i replaced the #1 wire though.
when i go HEI i can cut them and recrimp them with the ends that came with it for HEI.

The symptoms you describe sound like a weak ignition system. You said the distributor is not producing a spark and that it is a points-type distributor. The rotor and cap had burn marks on them, so you replaced them. Probably the points are worn or burned as well, and that item should be replaced too. In the meantime, you could smooth the points with a points file (or fine sandpaper, 150+ grit) and then hold open the points and spray some brake cleaner on them to clean off any residue. Also it's good to check that the metal rotor that pushes on the points still has lobes on it and is not worn down.

I would suspect the points need to be adjusted to restore the correct gap, which changes both dwell and timing. The point gap should be 0.019 inches for a small block or big block. The dwell with that gap will read between 29 and 32 degrees.

What size motor does your 72 have? The initial ignition timing could be between 4 and 8 BTDC depending on engine size and transmission.

A new set of spark plugs should help a lot even with an otherwise weak ignition. Proper spark plug gap is 0.035 inches for points ignitions. A weak ignition might need a little less gap, maybe 0.032.

I would suggest you also use an electrical multimeter to check resistance through the plug wires. The resistance should be no more than 1000 ohms per foot.

I hope this helps.

Ben,
If your going to change to a HEI you will be better off as for the wires if they are to long you can cut the end off and put the HEI ones on. Are the wires on the car now? or are you using old ones? the reason I ask is if they are not crimped correctly you will have no spark at the plugs.

In the meantime, you could smooth the points with a points file (or fine sandpaper, 150+ grit) and then hold open the points and spray some brake cleaner on them to clean off any residue. Also it's good to check that the metal rotor that pushes on the points still has lobes on it and is not worn down.

thanks Malibu70, your reply was really helpful to me. ill try this stuff first and let you know what i find.


What size motor does your 72 have?

Its a 350 with the TH350 transmission


A new set of spark plugs should help a lot even with an otherwise weak ignition. Proper spark plug gap is 0.035 inches for points ignitions. A weak ignition might need a little less gap, maybe 0.032.

ill shorten the gap a little and see how it does.

im using the old plug wires except the #1 wire, but i crimped them like instructions recommended and i took my time to make sure they were all practically perfect.

hey Malibu70, i checked the points and they were a mess. all burnt and charred. i have a replacment now(points and condenser) but this is my first time replacing points and setting dwell so wish me luck.

what did you mean when you said- "Also it's good to check that the metal rotor that pushes on the points still has lobes on it and is not worn down."

i couldnt figure that out.

i replaced it and it still just cranks for days. pretty disappointed. the cam lobes looked worn but still had a point to it so i assume thats good enough. i guess the only thing now is to try HEI but im just afraid ill spend $200, install it, and get the same problem. anyways thanks for trying.

Spskunk,

The rotor in the distributor has lobes on it to push open the ignition points and break electrical current to the ignition coil. If this metal rotor is worn down, the points might not open enough or open at the right time to fire the spark plugs.

The correct points gap will have a big effect on the amount of spark energy that the coil can put out. Too little gap causes a short dwell and will not give the coil enough time to build up a magnetic field and push out the spark. A wire-type gap gauge will work for setting the points. If you can get the engine to idle and you have a dwell/tach meter, you can simply set the dwell to 28-32 degrees and forget about the point gap.

If you cannot get any spark out of any spark plugs, the distributor timing will not matter at all. I would say you should check some wires, such as the one between the distributor points and the ignition coil, the resistor wire between the starter and the coil, the coil ground wire, and especially the condenser. A faulty or missing condenser will kill the ignition system in no time, and will usually burn the points. Any oil residue on the points will cause them to burn.

One cheaper option to a complete distributor replacement is a conversion to an optical or magnetic trigger. The Mallory Unilite conversion kit (MAA-501) or Pertronix Ignitor II conversion kit (PNX-91181) are each about $110 at Summitracing.com. I have been happy with my Mallory Unilite conversion since 1993, and it has required absolutely no maintenance or troubleshooting in all that time.

Just a side note, if you go to the hei make sure not to use the resistor wire or ballast resistor. You will need a full 12 volts to the hei to work properly.

Pull your coil wire (leave it connected at coil, disconnect it from middle of distributor) and check to see if you even have power coming out of your coil. Do this the same as the spark plug, grounding it to the frame and turning the car over.

This same senerio happened to me when I first got my car. Come to find out I moved (it was loose) the nuetural safety switch by accident and my car would not start.

The switch is up under the dash next to your pedals. It is white in color.

Just a thought?????

I kinda get the feeling that your still lost in replacing the points and setting them.(just a guess but since you posted noob and just the terms/phrases used-not that its a bad thing I just think sometimes we might be tryign to give suggestion that are going over your head or you might not have the tools necessary to accomplish the task. I think he needs a little help with the plastic part of the points has to be on the POINT of the distributor lobe where it rides before you adjust the gap with a feeler gauge and then you will also need a dwell meter to set the angle once you get it cranking. Probably less frustrating would be take a run down to a junkyard and find any mid 70's V-8 chevy with the HEI distributor--search around to you find one that looks like the cap and wires are in decent shape look for no cracks in wires and no corrosion on the terminals or inside the plug wire ends. Take the distributor and the cap and wires also pull out as much of the red wire that goes to the bat terminal as you can and clip it off. Bring it home make sure the mark on the balancer is at TDC. remove your points distributor & replace with the HEI unit watch as you install it that the rotor lines up with the #1 Plug wire. usually the plastic retainer on top of the HEI wires will be marked otherwise just tag each wire when you remove from the donor car so you know what goes where. Remove the old ignition coil and tape up the wires that went to it. DO NOT use the hot wire that used to go to the ignition coil to power the HEI unit it. Run a new wire from the fusebox any terminal that has 12 VOLTS power when the key is in the "ON" postion will be fine connect that to the RED wire that you clipped from your donor car and you should be good. When you attempt to start it most likely one of 2 things will happen either A it will fire up and run or B it will Backfire possibly up through the carb so be careful and make sure there is no gas leaking or around the intake manifold. If it doesn't fire up and is backfiring that means you have the distributor installed 180 degrees out--simple fix bring the balancer back up to TDC remove the distributor keeping an eye on the way the rotor rotates so you have a reference for reinstalling. once u have the distributor out turn the crank clockwise ONE revolution bring the mark back to tdc on the timing mark and reinstall the distributor. It should fire up now. Most junkyards you can get the distributor and the wires for $20-$30. You will need to change the gap on the plugs after but it should at least get you up and running. In a stock motor I don't see the need to spend the money on the pertronix stuff (although to answer your previous question it is good stuff). If you go the stock route the only thing I would ever keep in the car is an extra ignition module for the HEI they are relatively inexpensive and when they go out they usually don't give much warning you just go out and try to start it one day and it cranks forever and no spark if you have it in the glove box and the screwdriver required to replace it in 10 minutes your back in business.

thanks for all the new suggestions and help. i have some buddies coming over to help me, so we'll see what we come up with. ill check the local "pick and pull" for any hei distributors before i go the petronix route to play it safe. thanks alot, i needed some fresh ideas to work with

Good news!! i got it running. i was doing everything right after all. not a complete noob. the old points were too far gone for it to start and the point gap was wrong so i installed new points. the new points didnt work either so i checked them again and they were all greesy. i used a new feeler gauge to set the point gap and it was all oiled up so the blades wouldnt stick and it was insulating the points. wiped it cleaned and tried to start it(not expecting anything) and it roared to life.

i set the ignition timing for the first time(intial) and reset the idle to the correct speed but i still need more practice to get it completely right. carb still needs alot of tuning to be where it should be. someone recommended taking it to a shop but i want to do it myself. (might take awhile but ill learn).

anyways thanks for all the help.:)

Get a dwell/tach meter (set dwell to 30 degrees) a timing light and a vacuum gage and your tune up kit is complete.