I have to weld some floor pans in. Can anyone suggest an economical welder for the job. I see some in harbor freight and other cheap tool joint for short money. What features do I need? Can I go gasless?
thanks

Do a quick search I know we talked about this just recently. I'm pretty sure the consensus was miller's MM135. But lots of people chimed in with hobarts and lincolns as well. I use lincolns smallest welder (100 special I think) with 75/25 argon and a .025 or .03 wire on body panels with no problem. I did my trunk pans without gas and it welded fine, but I feel in love with the gas as soon as I upgraded. If money is tight get a good welder (miller, hobart, lincoln, etc) that can be upgraded to gas later.

DO NOT get a harbor frieght piece of crap unless you have enough money you don't mind buying 2 welders. First the H.F. pile of crap then a new one when you can't weld with the HF junk.

I have a110 volt lincoln wire welder that works great.You will like welding with shielding gas better but you could use flux wire and upgrade later. You can get a good price on these if you shop around. There are cheap tools you can get by with but i dont think a welder is one of them.

Can you rent them?

Help!!!
o.k whats the deal with the types of welders? I know stick or arc welders are usualy for thicker gauge stock. What about acetylene versus argon and the other types wich type is for what? I'm doing floor pans. I'm ready to just get the pop rivets and silicone out!!! But it's a real "67 SS and deserves better.

You want a wire feed welder, commonly called a MIG welder. Most, maybe all, can use flux core wire which doesn't need gas. Or you have some options on what gas to use. Most the stuff we (car guys) weld uses 75% argon 25% CO2. But you can get CO2 only tanks, or argon only tanks also. I'm sure you can rent a welder, but I doubt its cost effective. Get a name brand welder that can be upgraded to use gas. Use the flux core wire to learn with and do you floor pans with it. Then we you are ready to do other stuff your welder can be upgraded to gas. If you buy a piece of junk that can only use flux core you'll be beating your head on the wall at some point when you are ready to upgrade (you will some day trust me), and buying a second welder.

You want a wire feed welder, commonly called a MIG welder. Most, maybe all, can use flux core wire which doesn't need gas. Or you have some options on what gas to use. Most the stuff we (car guys) weld uses 75% argon 25% CO2. But you can get CO2 only tanks, or argon only tanks also. I'm sure you can rent a welder, but I doubt its cost effective. Get a name brand welder that can be upgraded to use gas. Use the flux core wire to learn with and do you floor pans with it. Then we you are ready to do other stuff your welder can be upgraded to gas. If you buy a piece of junk that can only use flux core you'll be beating your head on the wall at some point when you are ready to upgrade (you will some day trust me), and buying a second welder.

Second that!! I recommend a 220 welder. You can get by with a 110, but you're limited. I think you'll have a tough time with the flux core and thinner metals. I'm sure some can and have done it with flux core. Gas with .023 is the way to go with thinner panels.

You just missed out on 20% off at Sears last month. I just got the Hobart 187 and it's an awesome welder , it's 220v with 7 tapped settings. I can't say enough good things about it. The novice welder can produce awesome looking welds in no time.

Miller, Hobart or Lincoln. I have a lincoln HD3200 that works well, but only has 4 power settings. It takes a lot practice with the limited settings. For that reason I recommend one with infinite power settings like the Miller. I think the newer Lincolns also have infinine power settings, not sure. For all the 110 models the prices are comparable, just look for one with the most features for what you can afford.

As for the wire, flux core vs gas.

Gas is much cleaner (less spatter) but will run you a little more for the gas.

Flux Core works just fine for car panels but it leaves more spatter. From my experience the Flux Core seems to run hotter which can lead to more warping and blow through. I think it actually takes more practice to get used to Flux Core then Gas. If you can swing the $ I recommend Gas, but it can easily be done with Flux Core.

Good Luck.

Thanks for all the info guys. My buddy who's a pro mechnaic is going to let me use his 230v mig/gas welder for the job.:thumbsup:

Thats going to be WAY WAY better than buying a piece of trash h.f. welder that runs on flux only.

I am researching the threads and looking at sears at welders. I am new to welding and have lots of projects I want to do on the car. Everything from exhaust to panels. Plus around the shop stuff like building stands and such.
Would this welder be a good choice? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Electrical+Shop&pid=00920587000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Welders&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
Or this
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&pid=00920667000&cat=Electrical+Shop&subcat=Welders&vertical=TOOL&ihtoken=1

My expierience has been if you're doing field repairs on older,dirtier & heavier metal, use flux core. For clean, thinner gauge metal use shielding gas. I've had a Linclon 110 for years now and have welded some fairly thick steel using the root and multi pass method with very good results, just stay within the limits of the duty cycle. You can find these on sale at Lowes or Home Depot with the gas kit.

i had a h.f. 199.00 special that ran on 240v that i modified with a metal wire sleeve and a gun from who knows what, that i got free from a welding shop but was forced to sell and now i just bought a lincoln 100 (i also tried a 3200) and if anyone wants to buy a h.f. new for 200.00 bucks i'll trade them for it, straight up, with the mig kit, if you're west of the central plains, i'll even consider paying shipping costs.

Jay you want to traid your lincoln 100 with gas for a HF $200 welder thats flux only?

no, gas/flux, heres the one i had (i got for 199.99):

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=6271

on second thought i guess i would want to upgrade to (on sale now for 299.99):

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93793

While we're on the subject of welding-in new floors and patch panels, it seems like I remember reading somewhere about a special primer to prevent rust developing between the panels. Does anyone know anything about this?

While we're on the subject of welding-in new floors and patch panels, it seems like I remember reading somewhere about a special primer to prevent rust developing between the panels. Does anyone know anything about this?

Weld Thru primer, it's zinc rich to prevent corrosion. SEM makes a good version.

Weld Thru primer, it's zinc rich to prevent corrosion. SEM makes a good version.

I get mine from the local paint jobber. I get the 3m weld thru primer from them, they are a ppg jobber, not that it matters.

I bought a Daytona MIG for the same purpose and have not had a decent weld with it ever. I have to grind off more metal than I leave behind and it blows holes better than it welds.

If you are going to use a cheap welder like the the Daytona MIG, you better resign yourself to using the overlap method and welding both sides. If you try to "butt weld", then get used to going back and using a copper shield to fill all the holes.:sad:

I am thinking about using adhesive next time.:mad:

'kay. Just my .02 here...

Go to your local welding supply house. Tell them exactly what you are looking to do. They will let you test drive the different kinds of welders. Buy the right welder for the job. Anyone that tells you they are happy with a cheap welder is LYING or does not know any better. Advice, supplies and upgrades will be available from that same supply house and long term success will be much more likely.

Have had great success with Bloxide, which is an aluminized Weld-thru primer that is very easy to use and more friendly than many similar products. In some environments it will actually help to produce a better weld. Web search will get you a supplier and even some local jobbers will have it (mine does).

Best of luck on your endeavor and spend the time and money to do this right. If your standards are high you will not be pleased with a half-assed weld job on your baby.

Heres one of the biggest reasons you need a welder with variable selection for voltage and wire feed, and a 75% argon 25% co2 gas mix.

This is a fourty year old floor pan that has been sandblasted so you can see the pock marks in the metal.

If you checked the thickness with a regular micrometer or caliper, it will show that it is still .032 to .034 thick, as a new one will measure.

If you checked it with a micrometer with points on the anvils, you would probably have half that thickness in the pock marked area.

Rob






http://www.1969supersport.com/sb29.jpg

Consider me a pro welder. I have used about everything. I Dont like any 110v machines. The have enough power to do most jobs but they always splatter and make a mess of everything. I tig weld at work and some at home but for automotive I highly reccomend a Hobart 180 or miller Miller 180. They are both great welders and will do just about anythink needed at home. I personally have a Miller 220 but it does not weld as good or better than my old Hobart 185.

This is a 110, I'm 65 years old, and my eyesight isn't what it should be, so maybe you could point out the splatter.

Rob




http://www.1969supersport.com/fintest4.jpg

What gauge metal do you have there? It looks heavier than automotive sheet metal. My Daytona MIG will do the same thing on heavy gauge steel, but only blows holes in vintage car sheet metal. It is a 110 Volt unit with shielding gas.

I just went out and measured it, its .032, the thickness of a floor pan.

I used it for practice for my weld test.

http://www.1969supersport.com/fintest.html

Heres some more.



MORE SHEET METAL TIPS AND THOUGHTS (http://www.1969supersport.com/smthoughts.html)


Rob

not bad Rob. Pretty soon you'll be ready for a real welder :thumbsup: :D

I figured you'ed buy it, I brought the kid in to do the weld test, cost me a few bucks, but theres certain things you can't put a price on. Oh yes.:yes:

hey rob how did the micro-molecular analysis for the floor pan shavings come out ;)

You got me on that one, but I've only been up an hour, you'll pay later.:)

hey rob how did the micro-molecular analysis for the floor pan shavings come out ;)

Thin and pockey.... hehhehe

Well well well,ssboy finally showed up, she startin to heat up down there, Ha.

Its about 70 here, you southern boys are going to have to stay in with the ac, love it:D

jr willy?...did you just call me a liar? thats kind of rude since i do agree with the service/support thing you mentioned right after that. the offer above still stands, send me the cheap welder i showed above and i'll happily send you a new/still have the box and reciept high dollar (sort of) lincoln i have. :)

or, just know this: maybe i wasnt 100% happy with the cheapie 100% of the time, but, i'm unhappy with the lincoln most of the time. and by the way, ive welded since i was about 12 or 13 on the farm and did it professionally for 6 or 7 years after high school).
that said, i will amend my advice to any novices who might care to listen (or even care, for that matter) i tend to agree with wax, get a good 240 unit and if you cant and want/need to go cheap with a 110, why not go all the way cheap and get a 240 h.f.? the money you save will go a long way towards running 240 to your work area (which any self respecting mud hut/workshop should have anyway) and if you find yourself doing more welding than your cheapie can handle (side note on that point, i dont remember ever once duty cycling out my cheapie while my lincoln does on a fairly regular basis....and on second thought, maybe thats a plug for the lincoln, maybe the cheapies didn't work, hah!) or you just want a better welder you can always upgrade later.
really, the only thing my cheapie lacked that irritated me regularly was the lack of voltage settings.