Last summer I had a local classic car restoration shop do the patch panel work on my 66. The shop replaced the rear window filler panel, this is the panel that goes from the rear window to the trunk lid. I am finally getting into the bodywork. I have my car on a rotator now, and I spotted something. Where this panel contacts the rear quarters, there is a seam. If I look underneath where this seam is, the filler panel is not welded to the lip on the quarters. The shop did a pretty decent job slopping on the urathane high build primer, so these 2 seams look good from the top. You can actually see some of this yellow primer oozing through the seam, which means there was some sort of gap before they layed on the primer. My question to those experienced patch panel guys is, should this seam be welded from underneath?, at least spot welded? If not, wont this seam move around and eventually crack & chip the paint in this area?


Next question:

The same shop fixed an area on the pass rear quarter. The area I'm talking about is right where the vinyl top trim mounts to the body. A long time ago, someone replaced the quarter. I'm assuming the vinyl top was still on the car, because they did not weld this area under the vinyl top, they used rivets. Well the next owner came along and removed the vinyl top, only to find 2 holes about the size of a silver dollar. This guy's fix was to put a couple of pieces of thin sheet metal behind the holes with some more rivets, then fill the holes with bondo. When I took the car to the shop last summer I told them I wanted all this metal cut out before the patch was welded in, they did not cut it out. They welded on a new patch over all this garbage. Now the patch looks great from the outside, and it is all metal. However, on the inside I still have about 2" of the quarter overlapping the pillar portion of the original quarter. (whoever replaced the original quarter did not go all the way up to the roof, probably so they did not have to put on a new vinyl top) Also, in between the 2" of overlap are the 2 pieces of sheet metal. Finally my question: do I have to worry about the overlapping metal on the inside eventhough the outer skin is a nicely welded patch? I can still see all the ends of the rivets, should I try to gring them off & pull out the 2 small pieces of metal? Now that the patch is welded in, getting these out looks impossible. I would like to try & trim the overlap from 2" down to about a 1/2", but I would have to do this from the inside! Very tough to get in there. My thinking is If I can get the overlap down to 1/2", and get that other metal out of there, I can weld up the seam from the inside. I just don't want to damage the patch that was put in. Going back to the shop is really not an option. It's been 6 months since they did the work, and if they did accept to fix it, the car would probably sit ther all summer!
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

ETD66. Although I am not an experienced panel guy, I replaced the same window filler panel on my 66. I am convinced the seam you are referring to is part of the cars construction. It holds the rear quarter (roof part) in place. Originally it was spot welded and copper soldered in the corners of the window channel. The seam was sealed with some kind of caulking with a bead on the outside. I chose to spot weld both seams underneath (in the trunk) and continuously on the outside, including the corner of the window channel.
Both corners (trunk opening an window channel)of your rear quarter panel will be held down by the ends of the filler panel, but I am sure the middle part will still be able to move. I suppose you must still spot weld underneath. On top you might consider melting some lead, but the area must be absolutely clean in order to have the lead stick to the metal.

As for your second question. As long as it stays dry there will no other problem than just the visual effect. If you just want to avoid rust, you could consider to put some underbody coating (tar) over the area. I have found during my restoration that all the places underbody coating has been put on did not rust over the past 30 years. After blasting and priming I chose to spray epoxy paint as well as epoxy coal tar everywhere the eye can't see (inside doors, fenders, chassis, rear quarters, cowl area, etc.).

The seam at the filler area should be spot welded or tacked where yours is not. A bead of seam sealer is then run down the seam to make a water proof joint. It is a pain to contort and get to that seem to weld.
I'm not sure I totally understand the other but it sounds like the outside is now solid but you don't like the way it looks on the inside. Is this area cover by sail panels? If you can't see it I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not telling you to do something half way just that some things are better left alone.


------------------
2 piece 66 SS396
'72 C20 4x4 (427T)
Gold #75

So you guys are saying I should strip all the urathane high build primer out of this seam, tack weld the bottom together (under the trunk) and on top (the part of the seam that will be painted) I should use some kind of seam sealer? The guy did a graet job lining up the two panels, so the welding will be a piece of cake. I just don't know if the paint would stick to the sealer, or how I could sand it to look like a nice tight seam. I guess it was probably done with lead from the factory. I was comparing this seam to the ones where the bottom of the quarters meet the rocker panels. On my car it looks like the factory used lead, but it is forcing it's way out of the seam, like it's not sticking to the steel anymore, however this is covered by trim, the filler panel seam will be showing, so I don't want to use anything that will form a crack 2 or 3 yrs from now.


BillSS, the area I'm talking about will be covered by the sail panel, you won't see it when the car is back together. I'm just woried that all those layers of sheetmetal (3) will get moisture between then and start to rust the new patch, yrs down the line. I was just kinda pissed off the body man did not cut all that excess sheet metal and rivets outa there, he guaranteed me that it will never rust through. Is there anything I could pour or brush down in this flap of sheet metal?, POR 15 maybe? I know there is a bunch of sand & rust down in there that I might not be able to get out.

Thanks for the replies, sorry for the long winded post!

P.S. If you guys can tell me how to post pictures (or where to post them, email etc.) I would be happy to snap some shots with my digital camera.

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by ETD66SS (edited 05-04-2000).]

You may want to talk with the shop that did the work they may have used glue to hold that area down rather then spot welding it. I have not done this yet on my 67SS but alot of shops are starting to use this new panel glue that is out.

Tom

------------------
Tom
Southern,IL
67SS Yellow right now:(
Member #409

My body shop used this "bonding" process to attach my new quarter panel. It came out very good, and there is no heat to warp things. I don't know how it stands up to the test of time though... email me in 10 years!

------------------
RH
BEFORE (http://www.cadvision.com/hoskins/before2.jpg)
Carb-int1.jpg (http://www.cadvision.com/hoskins/carb-int1.jpg)

I might not be visualizing this correctly, so ignore this if I have it wrong.

If you're going to spot weld from underneath onto the panel which is painted on the other side, don't you have the risk of heating the panel up so much that the paint on top will leave a mark in it?

If the layers are in sail panel area I don't see how it will rust. Mosture will have to get in there and without holes it shouldn't be present.
I am NOT advocating messing up the area done by your body shop. I do suggest that you contact them with any questions. If they did that nice of a job as you say it should be fine. But settle your feelings by giving them a call.

------------------
2 piece 66 SS396
'72 C20 4x4 (427T)
Gold #75

KirkJ, the car is not painted yet. I'm in the proccess of stripping the car to bare metal. The body shop sprayed on a really thick layer of this yellow stuff that sands like filler, not primer. I think it may be that polyester stuff. Anyway I looked at the seams again today. I lightly pushed down on the seam to see if it was glued to together, it cracked the filler and some of this filler broke loose from the crack, (I wish I could post my digital photos here, it would be eassier to explain), the seams are not glued. The body man did weld metal in there, but he had about a 1/8" thick layer of this stuff to reshape the contour. The filler that was in the seam looked like it shrunk and left an air gap between the filler & the metal. So I have to grind out all this filler and redo the seams. I've never done it before but I'm gonna try to use lead.

As far as welding the seams from underneath, it looks like the body man had it a preped & ready to go, but forgot to weld them up! So all I gotta do is spot weld the lips of the joint together.

It really sucks, I paid about $2000 for the work this shop did, and I've found problems with every area he touched, of couse I am very picky, but this guy is suppose to be the best in town. Some of the metal work looks great, some looks terrible, must have been 2 guys working on it. It's partially my fault, I did not check in the shop while they were working on it, and I was very excited when I was picking it up, that I did not realize these things till it was too late. I won't go back to him because I don't feel like getting into all of that.

I've done bodywork before, but I am not as good as I need to be to get the perfect paint job that I want. For me this is not the car to "learn" on, I've spent way too much money restoring it to do a crappy paint & body job on it. I gotta find someone in the Buffalo NY area whose is willing to try and help me get this perfect paint job.

edt66ss - If you go with lead, get the tinning paste from Eastwood. Does the fluxing and tinning in one step. Works great. They also sell the lead, beef tallow, and maple padles. I found that a propane torch works good, less chance of warping panels. It is also handy to have someone else there to help when actually applying the lead - trying to heat, apply lead, and paddle requires 3 hands it seems.

Best of luck!

ETD- It sounds like you know what needs to be done. When doing this on mine the only place I found lead was in the sail where the top of the qtr meets the roof. My seams all had seam sealer. Tacking it along the edge will probably suit your needs and stay far enough away from the surface for heat not to be a problem. It really wouldn't have to be too pretty no one can see that area without climbing in the trunk and you can grind off any goobers. Use a wire feed or tig and tack it in about three or four spots along the edge. That should keep it from flexing.

------------------
2 piece 66 SS396
'72 C20 4x4 (427T)
Gold #75

BillsSS, thanks for the help. But one more clearification. I was thinking I had to put lead on the top side, just enogh to fill in the seam, but leave a little channel there so it still looks like a seam. Are you talking about putting seam sealer on the top side? or underneath over the welds? I'm assuming underneath. I can weld up the bottom, but the seam on top needs a little work to make it look good. I really don't want to use body filler on these because I don't want it to shrink & crack like the polyester stuff did.