was wondering if there are any sites in here for removing rear windows and how to install? thx steel

Not much to it really. You'll need the trim removal tool. Got mine at NAPA. Remove the trim and lift out the glass. If it's stuck to the seal, be very careful. I used WD40 and a thin flexible putty knife on mine. To install, get the 3/8" ribbon seal kit and set it in there. The one I saw came with little spacers or just make your own. The glass is held down by the trim. You can also get replacement studs/screws and the spring clips.

As Scott mentioned, remove the trim first with a trim tool.

I use an OLFA knife with the wide blade and I go around the inside between the glass and chassis with it. DO NOT FORCE the cut, it's far better to over the area 3-4 times with the blade rather than causing damage and possibly breaking the glass or cutting yourself! Just apply a light pressure to the glass when cutting and you'll feel it lift. Take your time and be patient.

Alternate method is to use some piano wire (solid thin wire) or thin stainless wire. Use a knife to cut a slot in the tape, feed the wire through and wrap it around a screw driver or so. Then with a partner on the inside use a sawing action and go around the glass. Again, take it slow and don't rush or force the cut.

Third method (like the pro's) is to purchase a glass tool which has a handle and angled blade and a pull handle attached to it with heavy wire. You sneak the blade under the glass and pull it around while wiggling the blade. It's hard to describe and I don't know where there would be a pic of it. They aren't that expensive but it would be a tool that you'd use the once so....

Hope it helps.

“The glass is held down by the trim” The above may be correct in a sense but that is not the only thing that’s holding it in, there is also a seal.
Removal is fairly straight foreword as mentioned above. There are several retaining clips that hold the stainless in pieces in place, they look like this

http://members.cox.net/renslove70ss/images/guts%202/mvc-012f.jpg

If you are not an expert I would defiantly have a qualified glass installer put it back in. If you don’t there is a good chance your car will end up like this.

http://members.cox.net/renslove70ss/images/guts%202/mvc-001f.jpg

http://members.cox.net/renslove70ss/images/guts%202/mvc-005f.jpg

much appreciated guys, waiting for the glass to arrive and69SSmike to help. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I'm a PAINTER not a glass man!!!! graemlins/clonk.gif Mike

The only seal is the one between the glass and the body, as I mentioned. There is no seal "holding it in also". There is NOTHING holding down the glass except the trim, which is held in place by the clips. While the seal may have some adhesive properties, it's purpose is to seal out the elements NOT retain the glass.

IN MY OPINION, if you paid someone to install the rear glass in a 1970 Chevelle, you would just stand there thinking "I could've done THAT and saved myself some money!" The hard part is getting it out without breaking it.

So.... the trim holds down the glass?????
The rear and front glass is held in place by stuff called Butyl, which is VERY sticky when new.It has to be cut some way to remove the glass. I know my buddies 57 has a seal, another 65 chevelle I did had the butyl. Not sure when they switched.
Most glass guys wanna use urethane instead of the butyl but this causes problems because unless the glass is sitting at the proper level the moldings will sit too low or will not go on at all. Mike

hey 69ssmike thought you was a painter and not a glass man??? :eek: graemlins/sad.gif

Hi guys,
Here is a link to the tools needed and a how to for windshield or back glass removal.
Wes's how to glass page (http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref1.html)

Hope this helps you.
Dot

Boy..this thread has a ton of Mis-information in it. As a X glass man, maybe I can help clear things up a bit.

There are 2 ways that front, and back glass is normally installed.
One is "rubber set" where the glass is held in place with a rubber gaskit.
The other is "ribbon set" or Urethane set.
The ribbon, or urethane is applied to the pinch weld, and the glass installed on top of it.

First, the mouldings do NOT hold the glass in place.
Mike is correct in stating that the Butyl tape, or urethane sealer is what secures the glass in place. The trim mouldings are just that...trim.

Second, IF you choose to re-install using butyl tape, GM uses a 5/16" ribbon, (3M part number 08611) NOT 3/8". If you use a 3/8' ribbon on a GM, the moulding will not go back on. Ford, and Chrysler used the 3/8' ribbon.

Butyl is old school technology. Pretty much everything is Urethane these days. As Mike mentioned, the trick is getting the bead of urethane the correct thickness. Urethane is much stronger, and won't dry out like the old ribbons will.

The Back glass, or Rear window, is Tempered glass.
Tempered glass is pretty difficult to break, unless you chip the edge, or smack it with a hammer. The best tool to use is a "Cold Knife"
In a lot of cases, the ribbon is so dried out, you can almost just lift the glass out.
The Front Windshield on the other hand, is Laminated glass, and is VERY easy to break.
Laminated glass is really 2 pieces of glass seperated by plastic laminant. It is very difficult to remove a windshield without breaking it. The only way I've had much sucess, is the piano wire method. It can be done with a cold knife, but the odds are not good.
Once the glass is removed, clean up the pinch weld with a gaskit scraper, and apply pinch weld primer. Then apply the ribbon, or urethane to the pinch weld. Place the rubber setting blocks at the bottom, and install the glass. Press the glass in place using the palm of your hand. When you see a solid black bead under the edge of the glass, you know that it is sealed. In some cases, it may be necessary to run an extra bead of sealer around the edge of the glass to make sure it's sealed completely.
Be sure to install the mouldings before the urethane sets up.

Scott, when you watch a pro, it always looks easy. smile.gif

Of all the procedures you would do restoring a car, yes setting the glass is one of the easier ones. However, there are some critial parts that if you mess up, you will be in big doo doo.

It is true urethane is how these windows are installed 99% of the time these days. The buytl tape works fine, it just doesn't give you the structual strength that the urethane does. That is a moot point being the car isn't a unibody Honda or something. The windows were not a structual part of the passenger compartment like a late model unibody.

Urethane adds a WHOLE NEW REALM of trouble installing. I highly recommend getting a pro to do it if you plan on urethaning the window in. I do it often, believe me, if you mess up, it is a BIG clean up. However, again, like I said about watching the pro.....
This urethane is "Moisture cured" so getting your windows wet after you install them is a good thing. You can leak test them, the minute you get done, it will actually help cure the urethane.

So check this out, I installed a back glass in the rear lid on a Mercedes station wagon the other day. As I installed it I saw some paint issues that were missed did not get covered by the window rubber (it sure looked like it would with the trial fit :mad: ). My production manager and I are looking at this mess and he says "It has to come back out, now" :eek: . We are talking FRESH urethane! What a friggin mess this is going to be, the car has a cloth interior, I am freaking. Right then our glass man drives up. He looks at it and says, "No big deal". smile.gif He got his aerosol can of window cleaner and sprayed it around the glass as he pushed up on it a little. Then a pushed up a little more, then a little more all the while spraying the glass cleaner (largely water). He got to a point where he pulled the glass out and set it on a stand. He then sprayed the urethane with window cleaner on both the car and the glass and proceded to cut it off with a razor, a single edge razor blade. As he did this, he sprayed more window cleaner. In a few minutes the urethane was all in a pile on a piece of paper on the floor and the window was ready to be re-set.

That is a PRO doing something. Even though I have set windows for 25 years as a bodyman and hobbiest, I would have been up to my elbows in black urethane as well as God forbid the cars interior!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>


Basics of window setting
First let me say that the information in these instructions was compiled after years of installing and repairing rusty and leaking window pinch welds. I feel that with what I have seen in failed, overly rusty window pinch welds, and where I have seen pinch welds that have remained in good condition gave me a good idea on what works and doesn’t work. The rust found in window pinch welds is many time directly related to how a window was previously set. These instructions I feel give the best seal and long lasting results. Let me say that there are a few different ideas on things, these have worked very well for me. This instruction is starting after any rust repair, primer/paint. That would require MUCH more instructions.

First off get some 3M (or there are other brands) "pinch weld primer." It comes in a little 1/4 pint or so sized can and has a brush attached to the underside of the lid. Remember, you only apply this over a very clean surface. You should have a clean painted or primed pinch weld. The “pinch weld” is the area where the window butyl tape actually sits. If you will notice that is where you will see the spot welds that hold the inner and outer pieces of that area together. These pieces are STRSW (Squeeze Type Resistance Spot Welder) welded and “pinched” together by the welder, hints the name “Pinch weld”.

Before you install the clips be sure they are correct!!! You should start with either new ones or VERY nice old ones. When they are installed the top of the clip should be just a hair below the top of the pinch weld or body surface. I also recommend that you trial fit a piece of the molding to see if it fits correctly. This is time very well spent. If you find later that the clips are wrong, you will REALLY wish you did this trial fit.
You could even set the window in on some rubber blocks and install the moldings to be sure it will all work well.

The Butyl tape will not remain the advertised size when the window smashes it down. So don’t think that the ¼” butyl tape will STAY ¼”. That is why the tape you use is larger than the actual space you will have between the bottom of the glass and the top of the pinch weld surface. ¼” Butyl tape will end up at about 3/16, 5/32 or even down to 1/8”. The 5/16” will end up at about ¼ or 7/32”. The 3/8” will be 5/16 or 9/32”. The butyl tape can be flattened more, if you get it warm enough. So these numbers are an approximate.

After you install the clips brush the pinch weld primer on the bottom of the pinch weld where the butyl tape is going to lay. Brush up around the clips good. The paint gets scratched when you slip the clips on to the studs and this primer will help protect it.

Next you want to set the window in the hole and find what rubber setting blocks you want to use. There are a few that come with the butyl tape kit and you set them different ways to make them higher or lower. Be sure that the window fits evenly all the way around. Run a piece of masking tape from on the glass out onto the body on the sides and the center of the top and bottom. Really only one should be needed but it helps to have more so you helper can see one well too. These tapes are then cut on the edge of the glass so you can remove the window again. Just leave the tape on the window and the body for alignment purposes.

Be sure the window is clean and free of residue of any kind. With it lying on its back, put the butyl tape on the edge of the glass without hanging off. Roll it out and as you go you can pull the paper off it so that way when you come to a corner you can get around it. If the paper is on, you can't get around the corner. But you want the paper on as you are going down the tops and sides to help you get it straight and so you don't touch it. At the point where they meet, run one next to the other and at the point they pass, cut it with a NEW razor blade. Then DON'T touch the tape, using the razor push it, blending it together. Most guys will tell you to make this joint at a certain spot like on the side or at the bottom. I really don’t think it matters as far as leaking, if it is done incorrectly it WILL leak, what does it matter where it leaks? The point is, do it properly and it won’t leak. I like to look at where it will be the least seen. On the sides it is usually seen and looks like hell. I usually make this splice at the bottom, it seems to be the most hidden spot. You can get the butyl tape in ¼”, 5/16” and 3/8” in diameter. I have found that the 5/16” is the most common with ¼” being used in late model cars on the quarter windows. The 3/8” is rarely used and can really get you in trouble. If you set the glass with the 3/8” you may find that it is impossible to install the moldings because the glass is too high!

NOTE! Some of the new (and replacements for older cars) windshields are thinner glass and the 3/8" butyl tape is needed to set the glass. It raises the glass up to make up for this. So, check with a good trial fit first! If you have an original glass DO NOT use 3/8” butyl tape it will raise the window up too high and the moldings will not fit!

Then with your helper set the glass in using the masking tape as a guide. DON'T LET IT TOUCH until you have it where you want it. YOU WON'T HAVE A SECOND CHANCE the butyl tape sticks RIGHT NOW and will not let go. If you have the glass a little over or up or down too much you can move it a LITTLE after the glass is lying in. Before you push on the top of the glass, using a plastic setting tool or even a piece of wood you can wedge it into the pinch weld channel and pry the window over, VERY carefully. At this time it is best to get it warm. If you can get it in the sun and warm up the glass and butyl tape and push on the top of the glass to get a good seal all the way around.

Now comes the real important part, sealing. First let me say that I have done many windows and used NO sealer what so ever. The Butyl tape alone should be sealing enough. But as an added "safety net" I do the following.

I take a plastic "bondo" spreader and cut it to about a half inch in width. I also round the corners with the razor nice and clean. Using a high quality urethane sealant I put a little strip right on the side of the glass edge or on the butyl tape it's self. Using the spreader I spread it down the side of the glass over the butyl tape to the bottom of the pinch weld, forming a seal from the top to the bottom vertically. In other words this sealer is covering the edge of the glass and the butyl tape, THAT IS IT. The sealer goes down to hit the bottom of the pinch weld right where the butyl tape is resting, but that is it. That bottom edge of the sealer where it hits the pinch weld is most critical. Be sure that it IS sealing down at the pinch weld. It should have a nice clean line as it hits the pinch weld. If it pulls up off the pinch weld, it is not a seal. Don’t assume because you have that sealer down in there, that it is sealed. If you put the bead of sealer in there and then spread it with the bondo spreader with pressure against the edge of the glass and butyl tape, it WILL flow down and seal the bottom, you just have to be sure you are doing that. DO NOT PUT THE SEALER ALL OVER THE CLIPS OR FILL THE CHANNEL this is a DEATH sentence to you job. When you are done, you should be able to still remove the clips if you wanted, that is doing the job right, no sloppy sealer all over the place just because the molding will cover it. Every little nook and crannie created by the sloppy sealer is a place where water will gather and sit longer than needed. This is a place for rust to start.

If you do this and you and see the seal has been made from the top edge of the glass down to the bottom, you know it will never leak. When water gets in there, it will be able to evaporate. If you fill the channel with sealant, the water gets in and can't get out!

You now can put the moldings on and off at your leisure. If your molding is giving you trouble and not clicking into place on the clip. You can take a rubber squeegee and place it on top of the molding and then a small block of wood and tap; JUST tap lightly on top and you can get even the most stubborn molding on. But if you trial fit them and didn't put sealant all over them this shouldn't be needed.

Dennis said everything that was really needed, I don't mean to condradict any of what he said. I just thought some MORE info wouldn't hurt. As far as the urethane over buytl, he is right, however the buytl is still used every day in new cars, just not on a structual window. The quarter windows of a Ford Explorer for example.

Thank-you to MartinSR and Zman for taking the time to share their experience and correct any mistakes in my reply. Whenever I post a reply here, my only intention is to encourage others that are attempting to "do it themselves". This is the bond that draws each of us here. The argument could be made to "have a professional do it" for almost every question posted on this website. I believe that defeats the purpose. Most of us have more time than money otherwise we'd all go buy our cars at the Barrett-Jackson auction.

On page 137 of my OPG Chevelle/El Camino catalog, they show the 3M Ribbon Sealer, part number 08622 64/72; quote:

"3/8" X 15' auto glass replacement kit. Includes setting blocks. One set does front or rear window."

Since this is a Chevelle specific catalog, I assumed this to be correct. That'll teach me to believe everything I read!

NPD shows both 3/8" and 5/16" available but does not specify which is which.

I used 3/8 as a reference to the availability of the seal kit. It was my understanding that the 5/16 seal was for the front and the 3/8 was for the rear. I stand corrected.

As for the trim molding, again, my point was to clarify for someone that may or may not be aware that there is NOT a seal underneath the trim holding down the glass. The seal is under the glass and the trim is the only thing above the glass. Maybe "holding down" was not the best way to describe it. If I said "on top of" I doubt anyone would of gotten their panties in a bunch.

From looking at the pics above, I would be willing to bet money that, without the trim in place, at 60mph on the freeway if you rolled down the windows that rear glass on that car would say bye-bye. The rust and corrosion would lift off with the seal still stuck to the glass. Without those stubborn little clips holding the trim in place, that window is road-kill. Leave the trim in place and remove the seal. It leaks like heck but stays in place. It's the stubborness of the clips that leads me to believe they were more than just a decoration to cover up the gap. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. My point was that there is no seal other than the one I had already mentioned. I felt that the reply after mine was confusing and/or poorly worded. When I read it, it suggests to me that there is another seal besides the one I had already mentioned.

As for the difficulty of the installation, I replied with the attitude that on a scale of 1-10, putting that glass in is a 3. For our fleet of 1200 pieces of mobile equipment, we use 3 different glass installers installing a minimum of 2 windshields plus misc other equipment glass everyday. I asked them because it's something I'm going to do in the near future. Their way seemed much easier and straight-forward to me.

Set the seal in the track. Use a diagonal cut where the ends meet. Use the blocks to space the window at the bottom. Use the soapy water method (sprayed onto the glass)just like when you put on stickers or decals. Set the glass in bottom first then lower it into place. Adjust side-to-side as needed before the seal sticks. Done.

I've watched these guys install front windshields on our newer trucks and would not reccomend it to a do-it-yourselfer. It takes special tools and a lot of practice. But what we're talking about here is laying glass onto a seal. Don't make it more difficult than it is.

To anyone reading any thread on this website I say use your own best judgement and know your limits. If fear of failure is your guide, pay someone else to do it for you. I'm not afraid to make mistakes and learning how to do this stuff is what it's all about for me. I come here for guidence, tips, tricks and suggestions. I get as much info as possible from all sources not just this one and suggest you do the same. If 3/8" seal is not correct for the back window then I'm gonna keep asking until I get the answer. These guys are right, trial fitting and correct material are important. Taking it back apart because the ribbon OPG sold you is too thick would cause anyone to blow a gasket, me included. What's important to remember is this: They learned that stuff by doing it wrong, by making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. You'll never learn if you're afraid to try.

Here's to you steelworker198 and 69ssmike graemlins/beers.gif

Thanks Scott. You talk about these glass guys using soap and water? That is how I install windows that do have a gasket, it is just a rubber seal that fits around the edge of glass and to the pinchweld of the window opening.
I beleive with aftermarket glass you use the 3/8 because it is thinner and 5/16 on original glass. Not sure if this is true front and back. Hmmmm. After rereading your post it sounds like a good idea.The soapy water does not effect the sealing of the Butyl??? Anybody else done it this way??? Mike

I do not know how soapy water affects butyl seal, but a lot of stick-on graphics are put in place with soapy water and then moved into the correct location. Next they take rubber squeeges and push down on the graphics to push out the water and they are done. I suspect that once the water dries the butyl grips just fine.

I have no idea why you want to put soapy water on buytl or what benifit it could be. I understand it would allow you to "move" the window on the buytl but how it the heck would you "press" it out like you do with graffics?

I am wondering if this soapy water metod was actually on urethane and not butyl? As I mentioned in my post that could be to CURE the urethane NOT to allow movment with butyl.

I just can't see putting anything that would hamper adhesion of the butyl to the glass.

Unless it's changed in the past couple of years, the replacement rear windows for 68-72 Chevelle 2 dr hardtops is the same thickness as the originals. 5/16" butyl is what mine (replacement) required. I tried the 3/8" butyl on the rear window reinstall a few years ago and the moldings didn't go on well. I dented one of the moldings getting it on. Use the 5/16" butyl. The windshield I installed was a replacement and was thinner than the original. It required 3/8" butyl to make the moldings fit right.

Just got my Year One catalog in the mail today. It states very clearly that 5/16 was OE and 3/8 is for distorted track or, as some have pointed out, thinner aftermarket glass. If I'd had it sooner, I would've been more specific in my original post. graemlins/clonk.gif It's a great catalog. Spend the money to get one. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Just to clarify, we're talking about a very tiny amount of soap mixed with water in a spray bottle. Not "car wash soapy" water. The purpose is to give you a temporary hydro-plane effect to allow for adjustments. It only lasts about a minute or so. When you press down to set / seal the glass it will force out the water just like a squeege on a decal. The soap will not affect the seal anymore than washing your car will. It's not the Andromeda strain... ;)

Mike, please, PLEASE post a follow-up and let us know how it went.

Reviving an "old" topic. redface.gif ;) Everyone is entitled to an opinion, here's mine. I used 5/16" butyl on the windshield and 3/8" butyl on the rear glass. Everything went on fine with no problems with sealing nor trim placement. We only used a soap and water solution to spread out any butyl that seeped out the sides, The bodyman recommended the use of urethane, however i didn't want anything to get screwed up with respect to window height - that's why I opted for use of the butyl.

My only problem with the whole thing is that PPG is making the rear glass curve slightly outward instead of inward as was originally intended. graemlins/angry.gif Just doesn't look right... (although some have said they would have never known if I hadn't told them).