One of the quarter panels in my 67 was replaced. I've stripped down to metal, so I've got a good look at whats going on. The quarter panel fits VERY nicely everywhere but the door jamb area. Apparently, it warped or something, and the area where the quarter panel joins the pillar is not perpindicular to the rest of the car. The panel was "spot brazed on" When I stripped this area, you could see some rust just starting under where some bondo was used to cover the joint. I should mention that the work was probably done at least 20 years ago.

Since the joint is not a solid weld or braze, I'm reluctant to put plastic fill over it. Should I solder over the seam? (It will be an area that is hard to file.) Should I mig weld in between the braze welds? Should I just kitty hair and forget it? I don't have an acetyline welder, so brazing would be difficult.

Mike

Im not really understanding the question...did they trim the door jamb off the new quarter and braze the new panel to the old door jamb?? Is it really a partial patch panel?? Is your concern a door gap that is wider at the top than the bottom?
Sounds like the only option is to mig between the brazed spots and tiger-hair it. Unless you want to install one of the new Goodmark full quarter panels..

Dave,

It was really a full quarter panel.

The quarter panel makes the first 90 degree bend into the door jamb area, extends maybe 1/2" - 3/4", and is spot brazed in place. I'm probably being overly picky, but the quarter panel either warped slightly, or was bent while trimming it to fit. As a result, that first 90 degree bend is no longer quite 90 degrees. To make it look good they used some filler - a little too much for my liking, but it held up fine. Door gap is fine.

I consider mig welding between the braze spots, but wonder if it is really necessary, or if it might do more harm than good in the end.

Mike

solder would be good, glass in the form of everglass or marglass is OK also, but never ever use regular filler over brass----a reaction will take place and the repair will fail. I've repaired many of prior repairs where the bodyman used regular polyester over brass without success

Originally posted by baddbob71:
solder would be good, glass in the form of everglass or marglass is OK also, but never ever use regular filler over brass----a reaction will take place and the repair will fail. I've repaired many of prior repairs where the bodyman used regular polyester over brass without success That's real interesting. I just stripped my car and found no reactions between the filler and the brass - and the repair is 20 years old! Not trying to start an argument, but I've heard the braze/plastic fill line many times before and have found it to not be true. Perhaps if the braze joint isn't cleaned well before the application of the polyester fill it could fail, but I don't think there will be a problem if done properly.

Mike

The type of polyester filler is not going to make a difference in whether it holds up over brass. The difference is the prep of the brass. To get brass to stick you need flux, flux contains an acid to clean the metal. If it is not nutralized VERY WELL, I don't care what you put over it, it WILL fail.

I have seen very few braze jobs like this hold up, including mine. Using brass to install a quarter has definitely gone the way of blood letting.

Mike, if I were you, I would clean it up well, stripping every thing out of the seam and just leave the brass. Unless you are going to completely do it over, this will work, it has for 20 or thirty years right?

If it were mine I would MIG weld in between every brass spot, at the very least, but it sounds like you don't have a MIG. So, return it to the way it was and it will be there another 20 or 30 years until someone decides to do an archeological dig.

Using a filler like Everglass (I assume "Mar-Glass" is similar) or "Metal to Metal", would be better as they do seem to adhear better.

Then from the back be sure to get some protection to the rear of the seam like "cavity wax".

Originally posted by MARTINSR:
The type of polyester filler is not going to make a difference in whether it holds up over brass. The difference is the prep of the brass. To get brass to stick you need flux, flux contains an acid to clean the metal. If it is not nutralized VERY WELL, I don't care what you put over it, it WILL fail.

I have seen very few braze jobs like this hold up, including mine. Using brass to install a quarter has definitely gone the way of blood letting.

Mike, if I were you, I would clean it up well, stripping every thing out of the seam and just leave the brass. Unless you are going to completely do it over, this will work, it has for 20 or thirty years right?

If it were mine I would MIG weld in between every brass spot, at the very least, but it sounds like you don't have a MIG. So, return it to the way it was and it will be there another 20 or 30 years until someone decides to do an archeological dig.

Using a filler like Everglass (I assume "Mar-Glass" is similar) or "Metal to Metal", would be better as they do seem to adhear better.

Then from the back be sure to get some protection to the rear of the seam like "cavity wax". I've got a mig, so I think I'll try to run some stiches in between the braze spots and grind it down to look decent.

Thanks for the input about the braze/filler issue.

Mike

MIke I agree with Martin on the brass-filler deal. I hear the same things about putting filler over lead, once again its the prep before and after that make the difference not the substrate.

Since you do have a Mig I would go ahead and place a few tack welds here and there, just to make yourself feel better. Is it really needed NO will it make me sleep better at night knowing its got a few tack welds-maybe smile.gif

You make the door gap seem to be fairly big, so with that I would also suggest using the GLASS type of filler. Just do to the fact that I believe that they hold abit better. When using the GLASS type of filler, I always topcoat it with glazing putty to help smooth it out. Some ex would be evercoats metal glaze, metal honey or something like that, UPOL's dolphin glaze...Eric

I've seen the failures with regular polyester over brass to many times to ever attempt it. I've also seen where there was no indication of problems. Maybe it is the makeup of the filler? I recently restored the body of a 69 Yenko Camaro that was worked over a few times prior, the only failures with the previous work was where there was filler over brass. The work had been done a long time back. The quality of the work looked fair-nice solder work over some major reconstruction around the rear window and lower quarters. The solder held fine but any little bit of brass showing caused bubbles. Brazing still has it's applications but I'll never use regular filler with it. performance auto body (http://community.webshots.com/user/bblock104)

Don't mean to hijack this post, but I have a similar issue with my 65. Looks like it had a 1/4 installed years ago, but the installer cut around the bottom of the sail panel and lapped/brazed the 1/4 into place. I dug around out of curiosity and found this seam. It extends a little behind the front of the trunk edge all the way to the middle of the rear window sill. What you see in the pic is a quick black spray job over the brazed seam to keep it from rusting. What are the odds that I can just re-fill this area and not have to worry about it when the car gets painted (this summer)?
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/70L34/lemansbraze1.JPG

Tony, depends on the color, the quality of the work and the products used. If you were to do this poorly and paint it black, you would see it a week later.

It is a hard call on what to do with stuff like this. If you can weld it more you would be way ahead. If you can cut it out and replace it, that would be the best. Cleaning it out REAL good and then etch primer, then epoxy primer, then a fiberglassed reinforced filler like "Everglass" may be your best bet. Then again, if it was cleaned properly and then just the Everglass and skip the primers, that may do just as well. It is such a crap shoot.

I had a '68 RS Camaro once that had a quarter (well half the quarter) installed where they spliced it VERTICALLY from above the wheel well up to the bottom of the roof post (sail panel). They did a braze job like I have never seen. Let me see if I can discribe it.....The metal was bent back at a 45 degree angle as it met. So the at the seam between old and new quarters (this was done in 1977 by the way with a genuine GM panel :( ) so where they met was a "valley", about a 1/2" deep. They then brazed the two together down in that valley.

It was a mess, I really didn't want to cut the mess in half and replace it so I did the "Bestest fastest" thing. I layed a strip of metal over the mess, linking the two pieces over the brass. The valley was so deep that this was very easy. I MIGed it completely down both sides leaving it remarkably flush with the surrounding metal. Just a very thin coat of filler finished it.
I know this is not the "best" way to handle the project but it was the "best" for me at the time. I feel that it really wasn't "that" bad of a way to handle it, the brass was buried for ever and I would bet to this day (that was 18 years ago) that "repair" still looks good. graemlins/waving.gif

Hey Martin,

Thanks for replying. The car is actually really nice mechanically and this is the only bad spot on the body. I would hate to cut the entire 1/4 off as the panel is otherwise really nice. Here's what I was thinking..let me know if this is reasonable. The braze joint is a lap seam. Is it possible to cut through the edge of the seam, bring the panels up against each other, and butt weld the seam? This area had about 1/16"-1/8" of filler in it so I am afraid the welding might wreck it even worse than it is now.
Worst case, I'll just re-fill the area. It seemed to be "stable" before I dug it out. I am kind of concerned that there is an exposed lap seam in the inside of the trunk, though!

Tony, you could do that but you can't leave a single speck of the brass where you are going to weld. I mean NOTHING! If there is even the tinest of brass welding will be a mess because of the contamination.

That's a good call. Maybe the best solution is to leave it the way it is.

Originally posted by MARTINSR:
like "cavity wax". I just dug some of that out of my ear, if you need any. ;)

Seriously, I would aggree with the above.
I would not braze anything, because you can't really get all the flux off. But, if it was brazed, I would just cleah it well, maybe even sand blasting lightly and then fill over it.
mrtinsr is right about the spaced between the braze. You want a water tight seam.

not that I am a professiona body man like other here.

Hey MRTINSR?
What happened with your work delima?

Dave

Dave, check out the saga in the "Bench racing" forum. smile.gif