we all are forced to work with a realistic budget, but at times I see guys plan and sellect parts not so much for the ideal, or to build what they really want but so that they can speed up the process or get SOMETHING RUNNING.........now theres always something to be said for having a running car vs a bunch of parts cluttering up the garage for a few years, but WHAT WILL YOU ACCOMPLISH if you BUILD SOMETHING YOUR NOT PROUD TO OWN???

example

lets say what you really want TO INSTALL, BUY OR to build a IS killer big block engine for your car, your NOT really satisfied with a 500hp crate engine, you want some bragging rights, AND AT least A 540-572 DISPLACEMENT AND 650-750HP!

http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_pages/108000.htm
http://ohiocrank.com/enginekits.html
http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/540_810.asp

a quick look shows your in the $10,000 range


so you start thinking, I know where I can find a
454 4 bolt block for $500, Ill build a 496 stroker....
Ok lets look at that, keep in mind you want no less than 650HP, youll use good FORGED parts and not crap and save a bundle.....

block $500
rotating assembly, damper flywheel,clutch, bell houseing $2000-$3000
brodix or AFR heads, valve covers, port work, $2500-$3100
hydrolic roller cam & hydrolic roller lifters,pushrods, rockers , stud girdle,ETC, $1200-$1800
oil system $350-$600
intake , port work,$300
machine work ballancing gaskets etc, $1200
carb, $400-$970

hell, it won,t take much to be at $8600-$11,000 so it quickly becomes obvious that you saving a bunch building a 496 vs BUYING a 540bbc is pretty much wasted effort!

what IM getting at here is that PLANING your goals and the path to reach them takes some thought and research, and one of the worst things you can do jump into it with a few parts and start building and spending your hard earned cash without thinking it thru carefully

keep in mind a small block may cost slightly less but everything still applies

I know so many guys with $10,000-$15,000 invested in 468-496bbc engines, engines that won,t come NEAR being what they could have built or bought if they had PLANNED it carefully

price it out yourself...
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/home.html

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategoriesDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002


http://www.summitracing.com/

http://www.dirttrackthunder.com/

http://www.dougherbert.com/

Incredible advise.
Wish I had read this 4 or 5 years ago. Being power mad I spent a small fortune throwing money at a 468 in stages to do 10.70's with a small shot. Foolish planning it has proven to be.
My new 540 that is now being buit is much better money being spent. I did spend more on the 468 than this 540 will cost me. Shocking. At least I could open a small used bbc parts dept. with leftover 468 stuff.....and soon to have a nice 468 to collect dust. More foolishness.

Yes you are right on the MONEY !

However what if I enjoy figuring it out and assembling it myself after I told the machinist what I was after?

"Pound them out the door" engines seem good product for the money, but are they?? I don't know.

Half of my own enjoyment is from doing it myself, and the other half is the satisfaction of driving it afterwards.

Many opinions, I bet.

I also enjoy sellecting the exact combo of components I want to use, to match the application.
Ive never seen a crate engine that comes close to what I build...but I can,t & won,t build an engine like that for the price either, for a number of reasons, the main one being I just don,t trust its correctly assembled UNLESS I measured every last clearance and inspected each part. now Ive seen some crate engines that hauled butt, but I was always leary of high rpm stress..especially if the lower priced parts were used to built to a cost limit....STRESS IS CUMULATIVE!
you can do alot of things a few dozen or a hundred times that you can,t do for a few seasons for hundreds of races with cheaper parts, that slightly better components make it easy to do relieably
Im not suggesting anyone buy a crate engine as much as IM suggesting that its wasted money in some cases to build any engine without looking thru the options, and getting the best return on your money, you can build a 540-632 for only slightly more than a similar 468-496bbc if your stating from scratch

A lot of people are forced into building their projects in stages. A lot of people build a great short block and run it for a year with less than desirable heads while they save for AFR's and you know what intangible benefit they get from this? They discover just how much of their car is not ready for high HP yet. So they address those issues because everyone cant set down and pop open a catalog and order any damn thing they want or have the shop area and tools to do it in. They also learn to command, tune, and drive their increased HP increments. What you end up with is a safe normal progression to increased HP in stages, while simultaneously reaping the benefits of instant gratification ( read "punching it while you buddy hordes parts" ).

When you put a pen to it start to finish I have no doubt what your saying is true, but that doesn't mean its right for everyone and its damn sure not as fun, while you wait for 2 years watching your buddies roll out to the track. You learn a lot about the sport and gain knowledge during the whole process as well. If your well established, already know your ****, and are confident enough in your car to jump from 375HP to 700HP go for it. I cant imagine jumping from what i started with to what i have now without all the natural stages of power , upgrading, and experience along the way. I am quite certain i would be dead. So while what you hypothesis might be right for you it doesn't quite imho cover the mainstream muscle car enthusiast as completely as you might think.

My 2
Shawn

You are correct in your assesment of how things grow exponentially. Key is having an intended goal. Also key in this is having a car with the right platform to harness the power of a big mill safely.

just reread my post, dont mistake passionate for argumentative sorry! I should really learn to re-read my post BEFORE i hit the submit button, but i always have something else pressing it seems.

Shawn

Logic and rational thought rarely accompany the average hot rod build. Your advice is great in the same way as "trying" to give life advice to the average teenager: those who "get it" have already learned, the rest must experience it for themselves and learn - or repeat the lesson.

I once tried to tell a young gun that he was making some mistakes with his car mods. So he asked me if I had ever made some dumb ass car mistakes, and I replied that I had. Then he told me that I should let him make his own dumb mistakes and have some fun.

Thomas

How come so many guys finally finish their dream cars, then sell it a few months later?

How come so many guys finally finish their dream cars, then sell it a few months later?

They have been a slave to it for too long and realize its just a car and until they sell it never ends.

I have had to do my cars a piece here, there, horsetrade, etc. I should be happy with it when its on the road, but to do it the way I REALLY REALLY wanted to...Couldnt afford it. Too many years have passed by, its getting put together and driven HARD while I still have hair on my head.

nothings perfect.

Because they push their wives over the edge just before they finish, then they have to pay for the divorce cause she aint gonna see ya having that much fun.

:noway:

How come so many guys finally finish their dream cars, then sell it a few months later?

I have never found anything in reality to be as good as the dream or the anticipation. That includes cars, women...... can anybody think of anything else?

I have to do mine in stages. I have set goals of 10 seconds on motor and 9 on bottle. I got my 10, 9's are around the corner, after that i would "allow" my self to paint the car (well have it painted cause i don't need to be around that stuff) and it just may get an interim face lift before I can afford what I really want and get the body work done right. But I'm all about the ET. it's what inside that really matters right ?

How come so many guys finally finish their dream cars, then sell it a few months later?

because they realize that all the time and work and money resulted in a car THAT was and never will be EAXCTLY what they envisioned or wanted....

you wanted a 632 BBC powered chevelle and theres a 496bbc powered car in the garage and your subconcious mind, says get that %$%^^& out of here I failed to reach my goal,and don,t want to be reminded of it!

you can,t cheat the guy you see while shaving in your mirror in the morning and expect to be happy, once you set a goal, acheive anything less and youll be less than satisfied with the results



YOUR FAMILY comes FIRST
but that doesn,t mean you can,t have toys or projects, your entitled too (some sanity and entertainment, stress relief)
set aside a small amount you can afford, for your project in a seperate account or coffee can in the garage,EVERY WEEK, THATS THE SECRET,HAVE a set goal, a parts list, supliers and costs and check off each component as you get it! and build your car! consider that $10, or $50 you can easily afford each week as previously SPENT before you get crazy. your project will eventually get built, look Im retired and have been doing the current accumulation of parts and research,on my BBC corvette swap for over 4 years now, IT will get done! but Im on a budget on a pension, ant good things take time, (getting side tracked on my dream garage project ,didn,t help either)but, hey Im human, I make less than ideal moves too!, but the garage was built KNOWING that ID get back MORE than every dime I spent if I ever sell the property

I have never found anything in reality to be as good as the dream or the anticipation. That includes cars, women...... can anybody think of anything else?


never truer words were spoken, even if cynical and depressing :)

I have never found anything in reality to be as good as the dream or the anticipation. That includes cars, women...... can anybody think of anything else?

Very true, some times it's better to want something than to actually have it.

Having just been through this, I can tell you that I saved about ~2.5K building my HR 496 (8K) over going with a crate 540 (~10.5K delivered). What's 2.5K you say? Well, 2.5K is my carb, ignition, 1/2 inch fuel system with carter 172 pump, aluminum radiator, and built TH400. 2.5K goes a bit further when you are not talking about the engine...would I have liked a 540? Sure, but when I step on the gas of my complete car, the smile is just as big as if I had another 100 HP. YMMV for strictly strip use, but for a 90/10 street car, well, I am pretty thrilled.

Just my 2 cents.

Rob

I went a slightly different route. I bought the car with a fresh ZZ502, built TH-400, 12 bolt, spool, fuel system and other small goodies done already. I drove it for a bit, won a race against an '03 pullied Cobra and decided to build it up. I completely refreshed the 502 with solid roller etc, added a Nitrous Works DP 400 shot setup and started adding stuff that was missing from the car like safety gear. I was also able to make sure the engine was done like I wanted. If I hit my targets of 520's RWHP N/A and mid 700's sprayed, I'll be fairly happy. This for a total investment of around 20K before paint for a single digit car. I can live with that.

I look at this subject a little differently.

I built my cars engine in stages. I started with a oddball engine I purchased (mistake, but oh well) and ran that and over time made changes and upgrades. I first swapped the heads & cam keeping the shortblock. Selling off the old parts to recoupe money for the upgrades.

Then down the road I built a replacement shortblock and reused my heads & induction.

Then last winter I sold the induction and purchased a real nice set of heads.

This method does a few things. First it allows me to make upgrades in affordable stages. Secondly selling used parts makes the upgrading more affordable. Sure you lose some money this way, but that's life. Also, I get to use and enjoy the car along the way, not sitting looking at it. Lastly I LEARN SOMETHING while building and working on combinations. You learn absolutely nothing by purchasing a crate motor. You also don't get something customized for your specific needs by purchasing a generic crate engine.

Oh yea, project cars don't get sold because they are disappointed with the results and compomising on a deam. I don't buy that one bit.

Project cars get sold off before completion because the owner had unrealistic expecations of what it costs to build it from the beginning. They also get tired of spending money saving to build this "theoretical dream machine" and it just sitting there collecting dust, eating money and not being able to use and enjoy it. Another reason they get sold off is the owner went gung ho and ran up the credit cards to build this dream machine and now the reality of the costs caught up with them. Now the project has to be sold off to pay off the debt.

I firmly believe that building something yourself, doing it in stages, and being able to use it and enjoy it along the way is the best possible way to build a car.

I don't need or want a 540, 565, or a 632. Now that big engines are more commonplace, some feel that an ordinary 454 or 496 just isn't good enough. Well, I'll take my 461 over many 540's anyday as many of my fellow racers in the series I run have 540's and my little 461 runs either right there with them, or runs past them. No shame in that and with building it pretty much from scratch, I learned many good lessons along the way beside just writing someone a check for a cookie cutter crate motor.

To each his own.

Sure it's nice to have a dream and go for it if you can, but for the average car guy, we also have to be realistic with our goals otherwise your pissing in the wind and you'll never reach that goal.

I think Todd has it right. Another reason I can think of for selling off a project is "burnout". I think some folks hit it hard and heavy for a short while and simply burnout, spending too much time on the car and not enough on other more important priorities. I've found that moderation is key to maintaining interest. I think about it all the time, but only actually work on the car a few hours each week. If I spend a ton of time on it day in day out, it starts to resemble work more than fun.

I'm on my 3rd engine in my car and with each power level has come growth and respect. Me jumping into a mid-9 second car 12 years ago could have been ugly. Of course, I've spent more money doing it this way, but it has allowed me to grow with the car.

In my case I enjoy the project and the build much more than the finished product. Once completed, I soon get bored...sell it...and move on to the next. My wife compares me to being a "hunter" and not a "zoo keeper". :confused:
My '70 is at that stage now...been seriously considering either selling or making a radical change. It's gone stale to me. :wacko:
Only thing that has saved it to date is I've been distracted with the wagon.

so you should start with a 15 second car and then sit on the sidelines watching while you save up $50K over the next 30 years or so, so you can have the 8 second car you always wanted?

no! you should PLAN better thinking ahead to reduce wasted expence,and add EACH component with the true finished car goal in mind rather than waste time and effort & cash on intermediate steps that need to be replaced, example, lets say you have a perfectly good 396 chevelle,, drive it while you save and assemble a decent set of heads, or a spare engine, or a short block, swap those parts in, as you feel its to your advantage, if you want KNOWing that the intermediate combos not IDEAL, untill its complete but DON,T buy parts or do mods that won,t be in the finished projected combo if you can,t reasonable recoupe a decent percentage of the cost selling the parts latter, as its usually a huge waste of money.
example if you KNOW your going to want a set of brodix 2 extra heads on the finnished goals engine buying a set of oval port edelbrocks at the local swap meet may not be a good IDEA unless your getting them at a price that your realistically sure you can resell them at a proffit or at least no loss.
you can buy the single plane EFI intake that fits the large rectangle port heads and install it on the stock oval port heads with the rectangle gaskets KNOWing its a miss match, but don,t buy a oval port carb intake then swap to that rectangle EFI UNLESS your getting them at a price that your realistically sure you can resell them at a proffit or at least no loss.

no ones suggesting you can,t play as you go along! Im just saying keep your losses to the bare minimum, and keep the GOAL firmly in site

As far as the build and sell goes, I am with Bill. The thrill is in the hunt, kill and dressing of the carcass, so to speak. I am not one for hanging trophies on the wall. Sometimes you just finish the car and think, well, what next? Time for a new project...

Some guys love to have finished cars, others like to finish them. It makes a nice symbiotic relationship...

Rob

There is a reoccurring theme that I find responsible for the sale of many cars falling into this category.....DIVORCE. My feelings are along the lines of, "Yeah, when you pry my cold, dead hands off the steering wheel".

I had already owned my Chevelle for 14 years when I married, which closely followed its first resurrection (of 3). I don't think that she had any doubt whatsoever, which had the higher likelyhood of lasting a lifetime (mine).

Should we part ways, I honestly believe that MY Chevelle would nary garner a mention. If it were to be drawn into it, I pity the new owner, because they will never get rid of the stink from the dead body locked in the trunk.

I understand the objective of this post and for the most part I agree. Anyone that is reading this post has access to (one way or another) the Internet. We are in the information age, and we should all use the access that we have to this information to our advantage (for hobbies, health, whatever).

Having said that, it's often hard to disseminate between good and bad information on the Internet. Believe it or not, there was actually a time before the Internet when people had to make decisions more on faith than on factual backing. It was the age of trial and error.

Even with access to all this information, some will continue to pave the way for others to follow. Whether your a paver or a follower depends on many things, not the least of which are motivation, dedication, goals, financing, etc.... you may find that you're both depending on what your doing trying to accomplish or doing at the time. This is how information is created.

It's great to have an end goal in mind when planning any project, but the reality is that sometimes your plans change. I myself have gone through many iterations with my car, and continue to this day. Many of these iterations have included costly mistakes, some that could have been avoided and other that couldn't. Things don't always go as planned despite the best laid plans (take a look at the world around you).

I think there are varying levels of interests and participation in hot rodding just like any other activity (sport, hobby, etc...). At the end of the day for me the only thing that really matters is whether I'm enjoying myself or not. Mind you my enjoyment is directly proportional to:

- the impact on my family life first and foremost
- staying within my own financial means to fund my involvement in this hobby

I think that anyone that participates in this hobby with the idea that they can break even or make a profit is probably delusional. For the most part I feel like I'm doing well to recoop 50% on used hot rod parts, and at that rate I feel I've given a fair deal to the purchaser and recovered enough of my initial expenditures to move on. I'm certainly not the thriftiest hot rodder and I'm sure many do/have done better, but my method satisfies the criteria I set for myself.

Some may consider me foolish, but like Frank.... I did it my way!

heres where I went temporarily,off track on my BBC corvette project, I only did it because I knew ID get back every cent if I sell the place later and IVE always wanted a decent place to work on my cars/engines vs a cramped 2 car garage



http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garage2.jpg


http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garage6.jpg

http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garage8.jpg


http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garge15.jpg

well finally got the stucco

http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garage11.jpg
the lift

http://garage.fasterdeals.com./garage12.jpg

http://garage.fasterdeals.com/garage10.jpg

http://garage.fasterdeals.com/garage20.jpg
http://garage.fasterdeals.com/garage21.jpg
http://garage.fasterdeals.com/garage22.jpg


the bathroom installed in my new garage so Im advancing slowly

Looks great and I'm envious :D A real garage is on my list of things to do, but not at my current residence. Now, to stay true to your thrifty preachings, start (if you haven't already done so) a DBA and write off the majority of those expenses by building engines for others (something you apparrently already do) and using your vehicle(s) for research and development.

That my friend is using your noodle. Sometimes the people that you think are spending the most are actually spending less than you might think ;)

One word, COMBINATION......

Just got off the phone with a guy building a blown alky 468 BBC for class racing. Top shelf everything but he was talked into a set of 345cc BB2X. Superior head but instead of turning this thing 6800 he is going to have to turn it 7800. Maintenance on this engine just went up 4 fold.

I agree with Grump and if the you do the following:
Plan (Ask questions from qualified people and do some research

Budget (Gather your numbers and set a budget)

Build (Align yourself with a respected builder and/or Mentor)

You do the above then you will reach your goal

Damn!! That is a nice set-up you have GRUMPYVETT.
For me building cars has to be done in stages, that is the only way I can afford to do it. I will do 2 or 3 major upgrades a year, and I always hang on to the old parts for the next project.

I'd be absolutely giddy with the property alone, looks to be a pretty nice chunk of dirt.

As for the structure itself, it looks to have power, water and sewer. Now all it needs is a fridge, sofa, TV and microwave. Then I'd hang a mailbox on it and call it home.

There is a reoccurring theme that I find responsible for the sale of many cars falling into this category.....DIVORCE.

Hardly! :noway:
This November I'll be married 36 years...and to the same woman.

Not that it's anyone's business BUT it is common knowledge among our circle of friends.
Ask anyone that knows my wife...in fact, she'll be the first to tell you. Her sole purpose in being employed is to keep both of us in "toys". :hurray:
We could live very comfortable on my salary alone. For the past two years, she's annual grossed more than I.
She has her hobbies and I have mine. Plus, we both like to travel. Works out well.
Not bragging here...just clarifying my position on this topic of discussion.

Grump,
How far are you from Crystal River FL? I'll be down in March to see my Dad.

Crystal River FL is about 6 hours drive one way on the opposite coast near ocala, Im well to the south near palm beach

I'm getting there...
My mess:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/jakeshoe/100_2871.jpg

"Jake's Performance" should be a full time venture in a couple of months.

Bill,
That was not at all directed towards you or anybody else on this site. It does seem to be the popular reason around these parts though for cars, bikes and houses to change hands unexpectedly.

Grumpy,
Big spread like that on prime real estate, not a druglord are you? Are you a native or a transplant.

First thing I thought was you gotta have acreage for that and bigwallet for concrete block construction. But why no windows?

Hmmm CSI

But really, nice work on the shop!

But why no windows?

SIMPLY, SECURITY!
along with multiple independent alarm systems, and measures to make it difficult too get ripped off, ETC.

I guess thats from living in miami years ago,
you learn to put the SECURITY in from the ground up or your making it too easy for slime to rip you off!

and NO IM not into drugs I just purchased the property 39 years ago, and put 10% of every pay check away for retirement , knowing I wanted a decent shop when I got RETIRED, I could never begin to purchase this at todays costs

look this whole thread is basically based on the fact that 90% plus of the guys do it the way you guys that do alittle at a time as the budget allows, describe (add a bit at a time,as you can afford it, learn as you stumble thru)
and WASTE a HUGE amount of money in the process, IM not saying thats wrong! Im just pointing out that SMARTER APPROACH,is thru doing alot of research,planing and thinking BEFORE spending money, that will result in far less expence and a better final product, THE real secret here is to LEARN while HELPING & WORKING ON EVERYONE ELSEs car, WATCHING THE MORE EXPERIANCED GUYS, and LEARNING THRU THIER MISTAKES AT THIER EXPENCE, then building a killer combo from what youve learned while helping a whole lot of other guys while you & they, LEARN what works and whats wasted effort.
I take a good deal of time here, HOPEING to bring you guys up to speed, and learning from the more experianced guys while IM HERE, so take advantage of the mistakes and what I and the other more experianced guys have learned the hard expensive way......theres lots of guys that know more than I do and a whole lot that know less, but as a group we can do a far better job than any one guy could hope to do!

remember when you were 2 years old and mom said don,t stick bobby pins in the ellectric outlets.....there was a reason then, and theres a reason for what Im saying too!

BTW
enjoy the discusions and differant points of view,as Im always learning and a differant perspective helps at times, were all equals here!

I kinda take offense to you coming on here with your "preachie" attitiude.

Someone like myself, there simply wasn't anyone local around me to learn from. I had to learn the hard way which was by myself making decisions myself and learning from mistakes.

i don't care what money i spent in the past as there's simply no better way to learn the basics and that's to do it yourself and learn what works and what doesn't.

This isn't about saving money, it's about doing it yourself and learning through the process.

Sure there comes a time when you can only learn so much yourself and need help to take your skills to the next level. But for the majority of guys here, the school of hard knocks does just fine and who cares what it costs us. If we were in this to save money, then we wouldn't be wasting money on cars, rather something that would give better paybacks.

Sure restored mucle cars will gain in value, but the truth is the performance segment of the auto industry is simply throwing money away. But if we enjoy what were doing and can afford to do it, the financial losses pale in comparison to the learning and enjoyment we get from this hobby.

Much like Todd, i've evolved my car into what it is today, and for the most part it is exactly what i want.

However 3/4 of the fun for me, is building the car! so when its finished, i get kinda bored.....well bored for me, means that i start finding the next peice to evolve on the car, the next step that makes it quicker, ect.

when i first started building it my goal was a 12 second street/strip car, having to drive to the track, swap tires ect.
I completed building it and was very satisfied with it, however as drag racing enlightens us to where our cars dont perform as well as to where they do....i found myself needing to do alot to make it hook.

So at this point i started making progress towards a car that Works! and Now it does! wheelying on every pass, in the majority of track conditions.

over time i also found that i could care less for driving my car on the street, infact it made me extremely nervous to leave the car in a parking lot, or do alot of street driving, since as we know, other drivers on the road arent as careful around your pride and joy.

When i started trailering the car, it started the evolution process of a race car with a stock-eliminator type platform in mind.

So the evolution continues:


Looking back through my pictures, i decided to upload a few shots of the process

started off as a 6 cylinder:

first thing i did was swap a 12 bolt into the car, with the future small block in mind:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/gold156.jpg
then here's a shot when i originally started taking the car apart, after i was finished driving it around daily with the 6
:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/gold160.jpg

here's a shot after i completed the car for the first time with the small block
:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010586.jpg
After which i decided to make the car safer, the next step was a roll bar:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010983.jpg
changes by the first season of racing's completion:
better carb, few other changes:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010988.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1011109.jpg

now:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010129.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010126.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010037.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/step%20by%20step/P1010073.jpg

bottom line is, this is a hobby for me, it moves with my interest and changes as my interest changes, and i'm sure it will continue to, i typically have a long term goal in mind with my projects, but i can only do what i can afford, and i think i've done pretty well.

I kinda take offense to you coming on here with your "preachie" attitiude.

. Hmmm, I didn't see any of his posts as being that way at all. I've been reading through this thread, and the only thing that I saw, was different people with different types of cars sharing a hobby that they're all very passionate about, and that includes the one who started this thread. No offense, but I think perhaps you're simply taking what he has written the wrong way.;)

I've found it interesting and encouraging to read many different viewpoints written here. The way that I see it, other than the main theme here ( which I have no disagreement with) there are basically two groups of guys in this hobby/sport. Those who simply LUV to work on cars for the sake of working on them and creating a masterpiece, and those who just want to get finished so they can enjoy driving them. Once in awhile you might find an individual who happens to be a little of both, but for the most part, guys in this hobby have a lean towards one group or the other.

I'm in the latter group. I've worked on cars for years. there's a lot of things I've done and many more that I haven't done with cars. But I don't really get a whole lot of enjoyment working on cars. It's simply a chore to me that gets me closer to the day when I can finally drive the car, and it's in the driving that I get my enjoyment. I must admit that in a big car project, I do grow weary at times, and I drag my feet since I don't so much enjoy the work itself. maybe it might have something to do with the fact that I'm an aircraft mechanic, so I turn wrenches at work for 8 hours a day. I dunno.