Ok, looks like I might be getting some of the work down on the Nova in the next few months, then on to repairing and painting the Chevelle over the winter! The Nova is pretty much my test mule, but hopefully will turn out ok. I have to do some patch work first to fix some rust spots, but that shouldn't be too bad. Then it's on to painting!

While at CB'02 last week, I came across the exact color of yellow I want to use for the Nova... it's called Lemon Chrome Yellow. Turns out, it is the yellow tint from PPG used to mix other colors. Part number is DMC 905. According to the spec sheet and body store rep., this is a single stage paint. My first question is can you clear over a single stage paint? The rep. suggested mixing some of the base with the clear and do it that way... is that ok?
Steeping back to look at the primers, the rep. suggested that once I the patches done, then clean the bare metal real good and used the epoxy primer to seal it up. He gave me part number DP401LF or DP402LF. He said I would have to slightly sand that and then prime with NCP250 for the buildup primer. Then on to the basecoat, etc.

So how does that sound? I know I have seen a lot of discussions about the epoxy versus etching primers and the rep said the epoxy is better and easier to use( this is my first time... so go easy!). Also, do I need to put down the filler before or after the epoxy? The rep. told me to exopy first, then use filler where necessary... then use the NCP250 over the filler. Do I need to seal the filler with something else first?

The rep made it sound like this is not too bad, just lots of sanding and such and I've got lots of time!

Are there any other suggestions/tips from you pros on things to do or not to do?

Thanks for the help,
Bill C.


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Bill C.
'71 SS (now with 467BBC)
'70 Nova 350/700r4
ACES #2780
Colo Spgs, CO

To answer your first question yes clear can be applied over single stage as long as the clear is compatible. Yes you can also mix single single and clear together, but mainly that is used for a metallic color. The first two coats would be just color then mix color and clear together. The best method is too apply three coats of color then a coat or two of clear. This method adds depth to paint, nothing in my opinion looks better especially when done on black, but also you need a compatible clear.

Expoy in my opinion over bare metal sucks! Etch is so much better and holds up agaist rust alot better then expoy. PPG recommends and so do the car manufactors that a self etching primer should be used over an expoy primer. Your 401 and 402 are the harders for the expoy primer the difference being one has a longer life then the other. The 401 can be used up to 72 hours but you must wait 30 minutes after you mix it together to achieve max performance. So you mix it and wait 30 mins before you spray. The 402 has a life of 8 hours and has no induction time just mix and spray, I would go with the 402. Now you can get dp primers in about five colors, like dp40 is gray and dp90 is black and dp74 is red.

I would go with a self etching primer first like ppg's dx1791. Now you cant apply filler over this so if you want to apply filler over primer method you must apply some dp primer. Let the dp set up about two days then scuff up with some 80 grit and apply filler. You can also apply filler over bare metal this is the most used method, but filler over primer is catching on. Sanding expoy is like sanding half dried glue its never fun.

Etch is no harder to use then expoy and its cheaper too. I never used the ncp250 primer so I cant rate it but all I use is K36 and K38 the diff is being that 38 has a higher film build then 36. In my opinion you cant beat those two primers. Oh once you are done sanding your filler you dont need to seal it just go straight to your primer like K36.

Now when sanding any type of high build primer like ncp250 orK36 or anything, for best results wait a week or two before you sand. Primer surfacers like to shrink, so if you sand your primer the next day after you spray it the primer will just shrink down later and become all wavy again, tis defeating the block sanding purpose.

Also keep the car as clean as possible. Buy yourself a gallon of wax and grease remover. Before you apply filler slightly wet a rag and go over the area. Do this before you apply any type of paint...etch primer, primer surfacer, base coat. But now remember this once you have base down on the car NEVER apply wax and grease remover to the base coat it will lift it. Everytime you run your hand over the filler to check for straightness you apply a thin film of grease from your hand. Its just a good idea to remove that film, you dont need to soak the rag just wet it and go over the area lightly.

You would write a novel on the primer process...there is so much more and more detail to it but I think that this is a start. Good luck...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Bill, I don't you can use a PPG tint by itself without binders,etc. You would be much better off finding a complete formula that matches your color. I also don't think PPG would recommend mixing base coat with clear. Clear over base is the best.
I agree with Eric on the etch vs. epoxy question. Seems your rep isn't listening very well to PPG. They have been dissing the use of epoxy for several years now.Personally,I'd look for a more knowledgeable rep. I can't believe we are still talking about a product that it's own manufacturer recommends not using. I guess old habits die hard.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports

One final note. NCP250 is grossly inferior to Urethane primers(K36 or others). It's not much better than laquer because it gets as hard as a rock when cured. I know this may sound like a good thing to some, but when a primer gets that hard, it will soon crack and cause a paint failure.
Gordon VM

Thanks so much for the help Eric and Gordon, that's why I wanted to get a second opinion! I have read quite a bit in this forum lately and what the rep was saying didn't seem to fit what I've read here.

So about the only thing I'm still a little fuzzy on is the filler part. Can you give me a better direction as to whether I should fill over bare metal or prime the bare with an etch primer and then apply the filler?

Seems I've read both, but don't want to confuse anything.

Bill C.

First off, hope you didnt read what I wrote wrong, you can apply clear over a single stage paint, also mix single stage and clear together. But you cant mix clear and base coat together.

As for the filler route I do most of it on bare metal. Ive done some on dp expoy and it seems to held up alright and that was almost three years ago. But you CAN NOT apply filler over a etch primer like dx1791. Only an expoy primer like dp 90 can be used under filler.

If you went the filler on metal method, apply filler first then etch primer(dx1791) then your primer surfacer(K36. NOw if you went the filler over primer method this is what I did, etch primer fisrt then dp expoy. Let the expoy set up for a day then scuffed up with 80 grit and applied filler. Once filler was ready for primer I first applied one coat of dp to cover any bare metal spots then went to 2K primer.

For the first timer I would go filler over metal less chance to mess up. I too agree with gordon that it would be best to find a complete formula. Also the only way I would paint a single stage paint now days is to put clear over it. Sinlge just gets burnt out by the sun, it losses its color. If you went to trouble of clearing over single stage then why not just have bought base clear in the first place? But I still think sinlge stage with clear on top just knocks your eyes out...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Eric,
The method the rep told me regarding the mixing of the single and clear was to mix a batch of the single stage with catalyst and all, then mix a batch of the clear up, then mix them together... does that sound right?

Guess I wish I made known more about what to ask the guy at the car show... He said it was the Lemon Chrome yellow and actually showed me a small pint or quart sized can of it he uses for touch up. Had the part number right on it. He didn't say he mixed it to a formula or that it was a single stage...

Here is a link to a picture I took of the car... http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/yellow71b.jpg

thanks,
Bill C.

"bump"... anyone?

Sorry, no input other than... Wow, that's a great color!

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Jim

"You're not afraid of a little mouse, are you?!"
My '69 (http://www.geocities.com/jimschevellepage/)

Jim,
I agree obviously... that's why I asked him about it. I have been looking for a real yellow yellow for a while and had kinda settled on Lemon Ice from PPG until I saw that car at CB'02!

Thanks for the input guys...
Bill C.