I have been reading you bondo basics, how thick does this skim coat need to be?(I will be useing Evercoat metal glaze) Do I press hard enough that it doesn't even show up on the slight high spots? Also while we are on the subject of pressure if I am getting pinhoes in my rage gold should I be pressing harder, when spreading that too?

skim coat is just that. Cover the high spots just barley.sand out with a long board,(use a guide coat of black) then fill any lo spots with light wight filler(use the kind you mix hardner in).sand /prime with sealer then hi build primer sand paint.bubbles in the filler from mixing air in when hardner is added.try folding and pressing instead of stiring.good...Ed luck smile.gif

Zach, you are on the right track. I like the fact that you got the "pressure" issue understood, right on.

It should be ONLY what you need and you should ONLY need a little bit because you have gotten the shape with the previous "regular" filler. Meaning that the skim coat should only be like a "primer" and that the shaping is already done and just VERY minor filling is needed. Some very minor low spots and scratches from your shaping the "regular" filler is all it there for.
And yes, applying a little more pressure when you spread the RAGE will lesson the pin holes. And mix it up like Ed mentioned, don't "whip" air into it. "Fold" it pressing the hardener into the filler and the air out. But don't be too worried about the pin holes, I get plenty be cause I am not trying to do the finish coat with the RAGE. I am not applying a lot of pressure because I want it to FILL. Then it is shaped and the skim coat takes care of all the pin holes. You don't want giant pin holes and zillions of them, but some pin holes are no big deal. Unless of course you are not shaping it down enough and you hit it when blocking your "skim coat".

I want it to be easily sanded so the smoooooooother it is the better. Smooooooooth means pressure as you have already found. So if you try to fill to much (not that there isn't a need sometimes) you will have a harder time getting it smooooooooth. The skim coat should "feather off" on the edges with a nice smoooth taper to nothing.

Ed, we all have different ways of doing things but in my "Basics of Basics" I explain a procedure that was taught to me many years ago. In this procedure you NEVER, NEVER "fill any low spots left with lightweight filler" AFTER the skim coat. The point of the skim coat is that it is the FINAL application of filler.

If you do a search may find my "Basics of Basics" on plastic filler. Give it a read and see what you think.

I am very thankful one of my mentors, Emery Robinson taught it to me about twenty years ago. I have seen how well it works in the many body shops I have worked in since. Still today, where I work, I watch guys go back and apply more and more, patching and patching filler. While I do about 95% of my filler work in two coats, one "regular filler" to get the shape and the other Glaze coat or another polyester putty. That's it, two applications even on very large repairs.

I think about Emery often, he really was a master at this stuff and I am very thankful he took the time to teach me.

MARTINSR. you're right on with the perfecting plastic theory. I remember 20 years ago working in a shop as a kid and the old timers making fun of me on how perfect I made my work before primer application. Common practice for most of them was to laquer prime after 36grit followed by a complete glazing of laquer putty. My work had zero shrinkage problems even with the laquer primers, while the putty jobs would always show up the 36grit down the road. My theory has always been to rely on the primer for correcting minor imperfections only, perfect the panel before primer.

I admit it I am guilt of whipping the filler up like it was butter to get it evenly mixed! graemlins/clonk.gif I will try the folding method tomorrow. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

MRTNSR, just cerious, what happend to Emery Robinson?

Bob, the plastic filler perfection came late for me though! I didn't leave my filler in 36 but 80 was common. Then many good coats of lacquer primer, It makes me shutter just thinking about it. :eek:

And I worked in a shop where the "thing" was to leave it in 36 and coat it with lacquer putty. I even had a guy who would add a ton of hardener to "regular" filler and call it a "spot putty" :eek: Double :eek: :eek:


No, I have to give the credit for my perfecting the plastic to Laurese Toness. He is my boss who forced me to finish the plastic off in 180. I have to tell you, the guy is a major mental case, I mean a KOOK. But he had a lot of good habits and taught me a lot about the trade in the five short months I was able to put up with this eccentrics. (sp?)

Emery Robinson is doing "ok", he had some serious health issues for years so all it not well. But I talked to him about four years ago. He and I have a mutual "friend" that I met when I had my Vette. He has a number of Vettes as well, but he is also an RC model airplane buff which is how he knows Emery.

I have to tell you Emery was probably the best all around bodyman I have ever worked with. I wish I would have paid more attention to what he was doing. But I was 20 years old and you know who brilliant you are at 20. smile.gif He looked like he was moving in slow motion yet got more done than anyone, and good quality work too.

martinsr is correct,I have read basics of basics.But a refeasher read was nessary.Experince is priceless.Everyone can gleam from it.(a vedio series one the subject matter would sell like crazy).I'd buy one... ;)

I never answered exactly how thick a skim coat should be. It can vary but a 1/32 to 1/16" is what we are talking about.

Here is a "Basics of Basics" refresher on plastic filler I posted a while ago. If you missed it, maybe it can clear up some questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Plastic filler refresher.
I thought that a little refresher on the basics of plastic filler was due.
Yesterday I did two small plastic filler jobs that I thought I would share with you. The procedure I lay out in the “Basics of Basics” for plastic filler is pretty clear, I just thought that a couple of real life repairs might be of help. I also wanted to walk through a repair when things didn’t go perfect. How you get out of trouble is almost as important (some will argue more important) than keeping out of trouble to begin with.

The first repair was a small 18x12 inch dent in a door of a Hyundai. I don’t think I have to tell you, the metal is very thin on this car which poses unique problems. I have pretty good access from behind with the trim panel removed to push it out. It did need some shrinking (I used my stud welder with a shrinking tip). The metal was pretty close and I figured one filler coat with “regular” filler and a skim coat with polyester putty should be about it. I applied the “regular” filler (in this case Evercoats Rage Gold). I roughed it into shape using my 8” orbital sander with 80 grit. The panel was ready for my skim coat when I realized it had a problem spot. There was a 5” round area that was flexing. This is a common problem with stretched metal. It was straight (or close to it) when “relaxed” but when pressure was applied while sanding it would flex down. So, the pressure flexed it down and sanded it “flat” WHILE it was flexed. The panel then came up to it’s relaxed state and the filler that is on the area would then be high! This is a common problem with beginners, they don’t notice the panel is flexing and block and block and wonder why the panel is not flat.
I had to shrink it in that area so I sanded off the filler in just the effected area and shrank it with the stud gun until the metal was firm. I knew it was not close enough for my skim coat so I applied a thin coat of Rage, just on that one 5” round spot. The rest of the filler stayed as it was, sanded with 80 grit. When I sanded the spot I found that I had not put enough filler on it. There were a few “shiny craters” showing low areas. Now, it was pretty close and a skim coat “may” have taken care of it. But I don’t like “may haves” I like to KNOW when I apply the skim coat THAT is it. I went ahead and applied one more coat of Rage. I sanded it and it was done. NOW at that point I KNEW it was ready for the skim coat. I applied it and it was then sanded to perfection. If I had applied that skim coat too soon and found low spots not filled, I would have had to COMPLETELY skim coat it again, as shown in the next job. It was a mistake, I should have had the metal ready for filler and it would have been done earlier. But such is life.

The other repair was on a quarter panel of a 2002 Ford Focus. It was a crease requiring filler in an area about 22x16 inches. As in the “Basics of Basics” you need to give the dent the respect it deserves. The actual damage before the repair was only about 18x6 inches. The paint was stripped out to about 24x18 inches, you need to be sure you are feathering out the filler unto undamaged metal.

After pulling the dent (with an Eagle II electric dent puller, neat tool) I applied the filler coat with “regular” filler. I shaped it out rough with 80 grit just getting the body line that ran thru it close. No super detail, I only wanted the line to “be there” and would fine tune it with the skim coat.

After applying my skim coat of polyester putty (Evercoats “Glaze coat”) I blocked it out. I had two areas that were close, but not good enough. One was a tad low, the other had a high spot of metal from the puller poking up. I couldn’t get the high spot to go down with gentle tapping with the body hammer. If I could have done so, and gotten behind the low spot to tap it out I could have saved it. But that was not in the cards. I went ahead and tapped it down with a punch and hammer (to isolate the force) and skim coated the whole thing again. These areas were just four or six square inches in size but I know that feathering a little polyester putty into the surrounding very thin putty would likely be very difficult at best. I skimmed the entire panel. That’s right, the whole thing again. It is a “shell” of polyester putty. Very easy to block, no feather into existing filler. It is just like a primer over the area and much easier to work with. Even though it is more sanding, it is much easier.

Again, a mistake necessitated the 2nd skim coat. But mistakes happen and if I would have tried to repair it without another FULL skim coat, it is likely I would have spent even more time to fix it.

Cut your losses and skim it again, but don’t plan on anything less than a skim coat to finish the job.
I want to say there are times when a tiny amount of polyester putty could be applied to pin holes or other VERY tiny imperfections without skim coating the whole thing. But these should be VERY little imperfections.
Now, I don’t want you to think that you ALWAYS skim coat the entire thing if you need another skim coat. There are times for an example if you had a complex area with many body lines and that sort of thing. If you had a few small imperfections in an otherwise perfect last sanding of the skim coat, it would be nuts to re-skim coat the whole thing and have to re-create all those body lines and what not. I do “repair” skim coats all the time without re-doing the whole thing. I just want to make clear how important it is to NOT do that. To feather a “tire patch” like application, no matter how thin you apply it is very difficult in the middle of an existing skim coat. That is why I emphasize the importance of proper roughing and preparation for that LAST skim coat.

Thanks MR Martin I just printed it