I was wondering if any of you guys could help me tweak my engine to get it to pass the ridiculously stupid emissions requirements in Arizona. It passed with about 1/10th of the allowed reading a year ago, but since then I've replaced gaskets and what not and changed the timing, etc.. so now it's a problem again.

My loaded reading (tested at about 30 mph I think) is fine, but my CO and HCs are over for the idle reading. Any suggestions? Idle speed, timing, dwell angle, mixture screws, etc...? I was hoping I could turn a screw or adjust the distributor myself and save about $70 instead of taking it to a shop and having them hook up the computers.

It's a 69 with a 327 engine, quadrajet carb. Nothing else is too spectacular. No vacuum leaks, backfiring, etc... It's just a sniff test.

Thanks guys.

did you try fresh plugs? if you got collectors insurance you don't need emissions after march!

Sounds like the only thing that's different now that would affect emissions is your timing. Just for the test, put it back where it was when you passed. Each year I have to drop my initial back to 6º for the test. I also found that hotter engine temps help a bunch. At 180º I fail but pass easilly at 210º.

For my wifes old Honda it had the same problems, High CO and HC's. Most of the problem on her car was a bad Cat. convertor. To make it pass, and I did this everytime. Right before you pull in, open it up to full throttle for 5-10 seconds or longer if you can, then while your waiting in line keep the RPM's up (in the honda I ran it up to 3 grand), in your 69 maybe only 2k-2.5k might do it. It keeps it cleaned out just long enough for thier sniffer to pass the car. I tought this trick to my buddy on his failing nissan truck, and it passed too, with flying colors. I learned this from an old mechanic I use to work for back when I was a young wanna be mechanic. I use to do it 2-3 times a month for him on cars that came in failing our DEQ tests in Oregon. Dont know why the heck they are making you take a car that old through emissions, thats crazy. Here in Oregon everything older then 1975 is exempt from the test. Anyways, it works alot of the time and is worth a try if nothing else helps.

I just took my 68 through last month. I had to temporarily hang a couple of cats under it to get it to pass. The year before I didnt have to do that. Im so glad that was the last time I had to go through. Im sick of running 240 degrees in the line at the emissions station and idling at 1600rpm to get it out of the lope. Id say check the timing, kick the idle up a little bit, and make sure you have clean oil in there. Gas fouled oil can make it fail.

My 68 always fails the first time through. This year a buddy told me about a product called guaranteed to pass. Picked it up at checkers I believe it was 8.00 bucks. Went through with no problem.

i got that stuff too, since i was pressed for time, and gas was 3.20 a gallon (or whatever it was) and youre supposed to put it in and run through a full tank, it cost about 60 bucks and i still didnt pass, so i broke down and took it to (i think the name is) emmisions express just north on the same street as the emissions station east of black canyon and peoria/dunlap (i cant remember exactly) 50 bucks they did their tricks and sent me limping in for an easily passed test, then i went back and they put everything back in tune and away i went, if you want to save time, headaches, stress and in my case ....money, i highly recommend it, this was in phoenix but, im sure they all operate about the same way...good luck

one other thing: i hasseled with reinstalling the charcaol canister and some other little (smog) things the car came with...since my engines pretty cool looking, im always happy to pop the hood, well, i was informed that if your car is over 20 years old, they dont even open the hood any more, i was never so thrilled to keep my hood closed as i was that second and last test

Here in MN when they used to check, all you needed to do was add a can or 2 of "Heat" $1.00-1.50 a can, and if it still didn't pass, you would lean it out so it would pass, but then put it back after you got home. I have taken my car to a service station and for $75.00 (including the test) they would adjust it so that it passed, and then take it there for me, and then retune it back, to what I had at before!
But they don't test here anymore! :) Do what you want! ;)

Pat

That new AZ exemption law is a crock, IMHO. In order to get the exemption, from what I understand, your car has to be more or less a trailer queen. You can't drive it more than 2000 miles or ?, it has to be insured through a classic insurance company, etc. etc. etc. What a sham, especially for those who drive their car often...It should be a rolling exemption, or have standards that aren't that hard to pass ONCE. In Colorado, you pass once for classic plates- 5.5 CO, and 1000 HC limits...Take in your etest, pay 5 years worth for tags, and you don't have to renew your tags for 5 years and NEVER have to get another emissions test. If you drive your car 50000 miles a year, it makes no difference. If its not a show car but a work in progress, it makes no difference.

Most classic car insurance companies do not limit milage just usage. I am even allowed to use the elky just for pleasure crusing that is not show or run related. The restrictions only state it is not to be a daily driven vehicle. I think MVD needs to be more restrictive on the issue of historic plates, maybe an inspection so that beaters are not getting them. Then the limitation could not be with insurance but with state approved plates. Or live in the middle of no where like I do, none of my many vehicles are subject to testing :)

That new AZ exemption law is a crock, IMHO. In order to get the exemption, from what I understand, your car has to be more or less a trailer queen. You can't drive it more than 2000 miles or ?, it has to be insured through a classic insurance company, etc. etc. etc. What a sham, especially for those who drive their car often...It should be a rolling exemption, or have standards that aren't that hard to pass ONCE. In Colorado, you pass once for classic plates- 5.5 CO, and 1000 HC limits...Take in your etest, pay 5 years worth for tags, and you don't have to renew your tags for 5 years and NEVER have to get another emissions test. If you drive your car 50000 miles a year, it makes no difference. If its not a show car but a work in progress, it makes no difference.

I think you've been misinformed.

Here is the latest from the EPA

For Immediate Release: December 14, 2006
News Advisory

EPA proposes to remove collectible cars from Phoenix, Tucson smog program

SAN FRANCISCO – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency today
proposed to remove collectible vehicles from the Phoenix vehicle
emissions inspection program, and collectible vehicles and motorcycles
from the Tucson vehicle emissions inspection program. The exemptions
will become effective after a 30-day public comment period and
publication of a final rule. The Arizona Department of Environmental
Quality studied the effect of exempting motorcycles, collectible
vehicles, and vehicles 25 model years old and older from the current
emission testing program, and showed that these exemptions would not
interfere with meeting health-based standards for ozone and carbon
monoxide. There are approximately 3,800 collectible vehicles in Maricopa
County and about 1,400 collectible vehicles and 6,240 motorcycles in
Pima County.

When I had a problem getting my car through I would let it get down to about an 1/8th of a tank and add one pint of rubbing alcohol next time went right through

I think you've been misinformed.


:noway: ..That's the EPA, but here is a snippet from the STATE law:

Y. IF AN INSURER NOTIFIES THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OF THE CANCELLATION OR NONRENEWAL OF COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE OR CLASSIC AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR A COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE, THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION SHALL CANCEL THE REGISTRATION OF THE VEHICLE AND THE VEHICLE'S EXEMPTION FROM EMISSIONS TESTING PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION UNLESS EVIDENCE OF COVERAGE IS PRESENTED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION WITHIN SIXTY DAYS.

Z. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE" MEANS A VEHICLE THAT COMPLIES WITH BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING:

1. EITHER:

(a) BEARS A MODEL YEAR DATE OF ORIGINAL MANUFACTURE THAT IS AT LEAST FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.

(b) IS OF UNIQUE OR RARE DESIGN, OF LIMITED PRODUCTION AND AN OBJECT OF CURIOSITY.

2. MEETS BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA:

(a) IS MAINTAINED PRIMARILY FOR USE IN CAR CLUB ACTIVITIES, EXHIBITIONS, PARADES OR OTHER FUNCTIONS OF PUBLIC INTEREST OR FOR A PRIVATE COLLECTION AND IS USED ONLY INFREQUENTLY FOR OTHER PURPOSES.

(b) HAS A COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE OR CLASSIC AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE COVERAGE THAT RESTRICTS THE COLLECTIBLE VEHICLE MILEAGE OR USE, OR BOTH, AND REQUIRES THE OWNER TO HAVE ANOTHER VEHICLE FOR PERSONAL USE.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/47leg/1r/laws/0076.htm

It specifically states that the car can't be a daily driver, and HAS to have collectors insurance with mileage or use restrictions. I suppose one can be liberal with the USE restrictions, but all the classic insurance I checked out have mileage restrictions; I'm sure there are other companies out there. Often times, standard insurance is cheaper to get on works in progress than collectors insurance.

I do agree that there should be some sort of restriction on beaters with classic plates. There is a lot of abuse with people driving total crap with Classic plates, but its not like they are paying a cheaper price for tags.

I wouldn't be surprised if rates for classic insurance went up in AZ.

Of course, you CAN live in the boonies and dowhatchalike :yes:

why would you want antique plates?...especially since you still have to test it anually?, is the insurance that much cheaper?
and especially in arizona where the plates are about as attractive as a hatful of (bleep)holes, ...gold (or i guess its probably supposed to represent copper, and, aint that a good samaritan industry thats never exploited an employee and always left the environment in better condition than they found it, they certainly deserve honoring) with some maroonish type letters

those plates are actually solid copper. I don't know where I read it but, I read where if some clown hits your car and its got collector plates thier insurance company cant total it as a old car and they have to put it back together. Like I said Im not sure where I saw it I hope someone can check this for us. Jim

The plates are solid copper with red lettering. The cost is $25 per year more than the normal $18 a 25 year old car costs to license. I wanted a set of copper plates for my collection and the El Camino qualified for them. The second plate issued for the front will be up on the gargae wall with others I have collected from around the country. The same $25 has to be paid to get personailzed plates or any of the other 25 + different plates in use in AZ.

Collector car insurance policies differ from company to company. I can tell you that the web site rules for coverage differ from the actual wording of the policy. The insurance premium difference is huge. Standard full coverage insurance was costing me $656 a year. It is only $249 with the collectors policy. I do not drive the El Camino every day, but everyday it gets driven it is on display, so in essence a mini show :D

The law is a welcome change in the right direction. It can possibly open the door to a rolling exemption in the future.

I actually only live about 20 minutes from town and just a couple of miles outside the mandatory zone. I have to file a code 52 exemption when registering my vehicles and declare one as a daily commuter which is required to be tested. I get around this because of the 5 year new vehicle exemption and my truck is my daily driver. I know in Phoenix you do not have these options, they even eliminated the exemption for Apache Junction residents.

cmon admit it this ain't the ugliest plate you have ever seen :D How many states do you know of that offer such a wide variety of plates to choose from?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/64elcamino/copperplate.jpg

check out this link (http://www.azplates.com/samples1926-37.htm). Copper plates are part of this states heritage.

without a doubt you get the UGLY plate award !!!! what I want to know is does it turn green after a while ??? ROFLMAO !! :thumbsup:

blech...i think its the huge "historic vehicle" lettering that always catches my eye and repulses...do they really give you two of those?...that seems a bit odd, but i guess that would match the plate :)
lol, just kidding, but, i would have to report that id say you must have gotten the plates "good side" in that pic....or the plate was having a "great hair day" or something flattering.
now then...where do i apply for my (and isnt it just about time!?) "tatum ranch" plates?

thank you for the link, now i remember why i miss my old maroon plate!...the cactus in the middle!, how cool is that?

Emissions ? What emissions ?
Sometimes living in the boonies does have its advantages :secret:

and by the way....anyone living in apache junction should be eliminated

oops, did i read that wrong? :)

without a doubt you get the UGLY plate award !!!! what I want to know is does it turn green after a while ??? ROFLMAO !! :thumbsup:

I have never seen one that has turned green ;)
They have a Classic car plate but the snobs at the Classic Car Club of America do not recognize anything newer than 1948 and even at that no Chevrolets at all. Must be the common man image us Chevy owners have :D

The street rod plate is also a nice one. I saw one on the back of 3 window Ford that was built in the 50's hot rod style. All of these are copper with just the name being different. So i guess they would all be ugly :D
JimMac has brought up a good point about insurance companies having to repair or pay actual value for a vehicle tagged as an Historic. If this is true the ugly plate is worth its weight in .......copper ;)

and by the way....anyone living in apache junction should be eliminated



During the winter months the out of state plated cars seem to do their best to acheive your goal :hurray:

In Cali. So far so good for Vehicels 1975 and older, No emission checks of any kind. Just don't get caught in CHP road side emmission test. Saw one in the inner city of L.A. during summer. If they catch you with no emmission equipment on engine as cars from 1966 on are suppose to have, you will be sent to a State testing site for farther inspection and testing and than the fines if you removed or altered them.
BUT, new revised laws are suppose to be brought forward in 2007 they say. Maybe no change to autos, not sure. BUT for motorcycles it DON'T look good.

"JimMac has brought up a good point about insurance companies having to repair or pay actual value for a vehicle tagged as an Historic"...

i dont think it matters what plate yer sportin'...isnt that the purpose of the collectable car insurance?, surely youre not required to have an antique plate to meet the requirements for the insurance?
well after reskimming over the posts, i gather you need the insurance to get the plate, but apparently it can be brand new, but if its "of special interest" and/or meets the other criteria, you can get the insurance, i guess, or at least, in arizona

In Cali. So far so good for Vehicels 1975 and older, No emission checks of any kind. Just don't get caught in CHP road side emmission test. Saw one in the inner city of L.A. during summer. If they catch you with no emmission equipment on engine as cars from 1966 on are suppose to have, you will be sent to a State testing site for farther inspection and testing and than the fines if you removed or altered them.
BUT, new revised laws are suppose to be brought forward in 2007 they say. Maybe no change to autos, not sure. BUT for motorcycles it DON'T look good.

Rich, any word on the new changes for 2007? These laws get me concerned sometimes...I was halfway tempted to throw a smog pump on mine "just in case". Not that it would make it run any cleaner..
:(

hows the car coming along?

I thought Arizona was one of the few states where you could get the same year plate as you car and take it to DMV and tell them you wanted to use that plate to register your car and for $25 if the plate number wasn't currently being used it was a done deal. Is this not correct??

hrd, if your car is a specific age you can get the antique plate, for collectors insurance you don't need the antique plate, what I read somewhere is if YOU have collectors plates on YOUR car. and someone else bangs into your car, THEIR insurance cant call it a totaled car. I have heard back in the day on a old car if a fender and hood got crunched the insurance co. pretty much wanted to call it totaled, figure a fender and hood for a chevelle would run you 600-700 bucks then the labor to remove and replace them plus the cost to paint it. the insurance co. will consider your 70 chevelle the same as a 72 pinto. Worth a lot more to you but still a 37 year old car to them. Cheaper to just give you $1500 for the old chevy and be done with it. You have a collectors plate, they are suppose to fix your car. Like I said before I wish I knew where I read this, it would be nice to know for sure. JIm

I thought Arizona was one of the few states where you could get the same year plate as you car and take it to DMV and tell them you wanted to use that plate to register your car and for $25 if the plate number wasn't currently being used it was a done deal. Is this not correct??

Thats a fact, they treat the plate as a personalized plate. I've got one on my 69 El Camino

Rich, any word on the new changes for 2007? These laws get me concerned sometimes...I was halfway tempted to throw a smog pump on mine "just in case". Not that it would make it run any cleaner..
:(

hows the car coming along?

Have heard nothing at this time. You have a PM

Well, for what it is worth when I lived in California( highest emisions control state. I would buy a can of pass, put in gas tank and fill up tank and go for thirty minute drive before test and passed ever time. same in Atlanta. No test here in Hartwell. Ga . Am looking for state with no test for old cars and will move with only old cars to drive. retired to old cars to play with what a life

well i assumed that your collectors insurance is the one that matters in not letting the other drivers insurance call it totaled or trying to skate by and not repair it to your satisfaction...i dont know

"I thought Arizona was one of the few states where you could get the same year plate as you car and take it to DMV and tell them you wanted to use that plate to register your car and for $25 if the plate number wasn't currently being used it was a done deal. Is this not correct??"... thats news to me and i asked if i could still use my maroon plate and was told i couldnt even KEEP that plate, but thats (the maroon) not the plate that would have been on my new car in 1970 and since my car came from canada maybe its a moot point since it never had an original 1970 arizona plate...is CRUZN69 's the (1969 issued) yellowish with black letters plate?